Delete #politics-containment on the official discord.

[Swept]

Or at least ban admins from viewing it. It's a fucking mess 24/7 and makes me want to scrub my eyes with steel wool. Can't you people go to your meta-discords to jerk each other off over politics?

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=28261

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 53&t=27500

If you're an admin I implore you to take one for the team and nuke this channel. I'll personally gobble your glizzy if you do.

[oranges]

Swept doesn't it like it when admins challenge his deeply held political beliefs, kind of sad

[XivilaiAnaxes]

Or at least ban admins from viewing it.

I'm pretty sure if it just got left alone to post CP it'd close down the whole discord server for breaching "terms of service".

[Misdoubtful]

If the channel got nuked what would stop it be posted in every other channel? I'd rather just have it all be in one place so I can pretend it doesn't exist, I try my best to avoid interacting with ideologues, that kinda stuff can foster them. Sorry.

It'd be a minefield whether it was in its own channel, in all channels, allowed, or not allowed. Which method has the most sanity and the clearest signage? Feels like the current one, a big 'post here only'.

Everyone wins now, and people that don't want to be involved (like me!) can mute it and move along.

[Armhulen]

please do it i can't take any more of these ridiculous admin complaints, one of which mind you SUCCEEDED

[Ayy Lemoh]

The first linked thread is about pornographic content. No, I'm not saying the name of it. Anyways, it hasn't been resolved yet.

The second linked thread is the one that Arm talks about

please do it i can't take any more of these ridiculous admin complaints, one of which mind you SUCCEEDED

The common link here is that Arm was technically the cause of all two threads. The first thread seems to be justified while the second thread apparently wasn't. This leads me to the conclusion that maybe the problem isn't all admins... Maybe it's Arm

tl;dr sorry, arm, but you are clearly biased as fuck on wanting politics-containment removed.

edit: but really though, why link the first one? That's a genuine problem that doesn't even involve an admin being politically biased. This could happen in any channel or even in-game and still be valid.

[Stickymayhem]

please do it i can't take any more of these ridiculous admin complaints, one of which mind you SUCCEEDED

I think the real solution is you not looking in there lmao

[Screemonster]

If the channel got nuked what would stop it be posted in every other channel? I'd rather just have it all be in one place so I can pretend it doesn't exist, I try my best to avoid interacting with ideologues, that kinda stuff can foster them. Sorry.

It'd be a minefield whether it was in its own channel, in all channels, allowed, or not allowed. Which method has the most sanity and the clearest signage? Feels like the current one, a big 'post here only'.

Everyone wins now, and people that don't want to be involved (like me!) can mute it and move along.

A server I'm in got rid of the politics channel and it was the best decision we ever made

people that start political arguments in the other channels get nuked for starting arguments, regardless of whether the arguments are political or not

why bend over backwards to accomodate a bunch of career """"devil's advocates""""

[Swept]

If the channel got nuked what would stop it be posted in every other channel? I'd rather just have it all be in one place so I can pretend it doesn't exist, I try my best to avoid interacting with ideologues, that kinda stuff can foster them. Sorry.

It'd be a minefield whether it was in its own channel, in all channels, allowed, or not allowed. Which method has the most sanity and the clearest signage? Feels like the current one, a big 'post here only'.

Everyone wins now, and people that don't want to be involved (like me!) can mute it and move along.

A server I'm in got rid of the politics channel and it was the best decision we ever made

people that start political arguments in the other channels get nuked for starting arguments, regardless of whether the arguments are political or not

why bend over backwards to accomodate a bunch of career """"devil's advocates""""

On god. There's already a bunch of "meta-discords" that people who are banned from politics-containment go to to debate each other. Why not just shove all these people into there? It's not like they contribute anything.

[cacogen]

>the channel is an open forum for political discussion from all avenues and served as a crossroads and containment and is the opposite of an echo chamber in spite of the allegations.

It's a shame things like IMVU never took off because he's describing it like a Greek forum and I'd like to see that visually juxtaposed with an incel debate.

[Cobby]

why do you want to talk about politics with people who play a TTT duct taped to a RP game duct taped to an atmos simulator? We are all mental by default on that notion alone.

All it serves is to bait people who dont need to be engaging with politics to talk/view others political opinions, find out people have a polar opposite view of them, and then carry distaste with them in other mediums within the community (if they played).

I think some people still live in the teamspeak era where it wasnt as easy as a few clicks to generate your own server and invite people who have an interest in discussing the topic you want to talk about. Better yet, join a discord dedicated to it so if you are genuinely interested about finding a solution to the political problems that plague us you can go in with people who are like-minded and can probably challenge you better. Im not sure what the allure is to talking about politics on the tg discord specifically so maybe i have missed the mark.

[Cobby]

Also fyi swept is banned from it, probably for being stupid. Probably not a good faith thread

[Jin]

Also fyi swept is banned from it, probably for being stupid. Probably not a good faith thread

Ohhh, so that's why the quality improved

[Armhulen]

snip

Yes obviously I want politics containment removed was there ever anyone's doubt in their minds against it? I constantly say it, I said it in the first complaint, and you're responding to me saying it IN YOUR REPLY. You're a fuckin idiot dude no complaint should be successful because someone was 100% INCORRECTLY ASSUMING I had any power to delete channels. And because of that they said some insanely disgusting shit which by the way led to my NEARLY PERFECT recent record having this retarded mark... A retarded mark that VALIDATES what they accused me of being around ordom which has sit boiling in my mind since. God Jerry every recent interaction I've had with you has been straight awful and you obviously hate me so why can't you just block me and be done with it. Should have blocked me way back when you yelled at me in a call to the point where I quit the events team because I didn't pull from upstream

[Ayy Lemoh]

I'd like to begin by saying that I meant my post jokingly to be honest. I don't think you actually are a problem. Apologies.

snip

You're a fuckin idiot dude no complaint should be successful because someone was 100% INCORRECTLY ASSUMING I had any power to delete channels. And because of that they said some insanely disgusting shit which by the way led to my NEARLY PERFECT recent record having this retarded mark... A retarded mark that VALIDATES what they accused me of being around ordom which has sit boiling in my mind since.

When I said apparently justified, I meant that action was taken. I didn't know how much this meant for you.

God Jerry every recent interaction I've had with you has been straight awful and you obviously hate me so why can't you just block me and be done with it. Should have blocked me way back when you yelled at me in a call to the point where I quit the events team because I didn't pull from upstream

I honestly don't anymore since 2(?) years ago, I believe. I never hated you at all since then. That events thing was me blowing up in stress, not because of hatred or you as a person.

I regret that things have blown up this way however I understand now. Once again, I deeply apologize however I fear that saying sorry doesn't mean anything now. I don't have anything else to say (in public) in order to avoid spectacle.

edit: made bold text bigger.

[Stickymayhem]

snip

Yes obviously I want politics containment removed was there ever anyone's doubt in their minds against it? I constantly say it, I said it in the first complaint, and you're responding to me saying it IN YOUR REPLY. You're a fuckin idiot dude no complaint should be successful because someone was 100% INCORRECTLY ASSUMING I had any power to delete channels. And because of that they said some insanely disgusting shit which by the way led to my NEARLY PERFECT recent record having this retarded mark... A retarded mark that VALIDATES what they accused me of being around ordom which has sit boiling in my mind since. God Jerry every recent interaction I've had with you has been straight awful and you obviously hate me so why can't you just block me and be done with it. Should have blocked me way back when you yelled at me in a call to the point where I quit the events team because I didn't pull from upstream

I think the real solution is you not looking in here lmao

[CitrusGender]

I like the idea of pushing it to another server tbh, though granted it's pretty contained, atleast in having politics not LEAK outside.

as a discord jannie it feels like the majority of bullshit comes from that place so I'm a bit bias, but at the same time: it would cause a lot of people less stress if it was moved out and put to its own server to be left to crash and burn

there really is no place for politics on our server tbh.

[Armhulen]

And something like a banned topic is easily enforced and won't lead to leaking into other channels just like how every other banned topic doesn't crop up anywhere and if in the case it does it's handled by mods. I mean, oranges runs #coderbus discord and he has a rule against politics and nsfw and believe me they don't show up at all

[Swept]

Also fyi swept is banned from it, probably for being stupid. Probably not a good faith thread

I'm banned from it because I pinged MSO asking for it to be deleted. I did not talk politics in that channel only shitposted in it.

[Swept]

All it serves is to bait people who dont need to be engaging with politics to talk/view others political opinions, find out people have a polar opposite view of them, and then carry distaste with them in other mediums within the community (if they played).

This basically. All i've seen from that channel is fucking vitriol and most of the discord drama originates from there or people who post there.

[Cyberboss]

Politics debate is 99% just polarizing it's participants and readers.

We don't need that around here. It doesn't foster a unified community.

Delete it.

[cacogen]

There are some good points against having /pol/hole (I know not all of the freethinkers and public intellectuals there subscribe to such views) but obviously the hut deletion precedent does make a person wonder whether it would just spill over into other areas of the Discord and the forum. The bigotry removal thing has gone well where we can still say the n word without being able to make people feel bad about themselves for their identities but can you define acceptable political talk as easily and without it becoming a way of getting rid of people holding different political views?

[Kel]

politics already leak out of containment well enough with it present, deleting it will just unleash the tidal wave of shit upon the generals. banning political discussion is an option but would feel like banning off of a random arbitrary rule akin to "saying the word robust will net you a ban". it's not like 90% of people who get swept up in some sort of political headbutting do so out if the intent of disrupting anybody else.

[RaveRadbury]

Delete it, we don't need politics discussion in a hobby community. Nothing going on in there is going to change the world for the better or improve things between community members.

[CitrusGender]

deleting it will just unleash the tidal wave of shit upon the generals

I don't get this opinion honestly. It didn't happen in coderbus and it won't happen here. Additionally, if these people can legitimately not stop talking about politics: I honestly think the server would be better without them.

we're a fucking "TTT duct taped to a RP game duct taped to an atmos simulator" not a political server, there's no reason it should be here in the first place and honestly, if it takes a week of cleaning up shit then I think the server would be an overall better place.

[Kel]

deleting it will just unleash the tidal wave of shit upon the generals

I don't get this opinion honestly. It didn't happen in coderbus and it won't happen here. Additionally, if these people can legitimately not stop talking about politics: I honestly think the server would be better without them.

coderbus general and the other "specified" generals are pretty safe from political discourse, considering moderation and subject content is more specified (talk about coding or get beaned).
politics containment wasnt a channel created at inception of the server, it was made by necessity due to the broader generals of tgstation-general and discussion-general being dominated for hours on end about some random political topic. the channel was made in late early 2019, after all. to delete its containment is to invite history to repeat itself, and like i outlined in my post, you can circumvent this by banning all political discussion, but that is such an vague and arbitrary rule that it doesnt really sit right.

talking about politics in a vacuum is a entirely harmless activity, and if the goal is to rout out catalysts that cause arguments to spawn, you may as well just delete discord because people around here argue about literally anything.

[Armhulen]

I was there for when the discord was created and it absolutely wasn't created out of necessity but rather because back then old guard would 100% blocked any banning of politics and it was free reign whenever which was really annoying if you're talking about last round

so like all things, it's a compromise

[Cobby]

I was there for when the discord was created and it absolutely wasn't created out of necessity but rather because back then old guard would 100% blocked any banning of politics and it was free reign whenever which was really annoying if you're talking about last round

so like all things, it's a compromise

Keep talking like this and you wont be receiving your jello and i will be grounding you from shuffleboard saturday.

[ABearInTheWoods]

I have never seen a no politics rule that was enforced consistently.

Not even on the coderbus discord.

What always happens is certain semi-political discussions are never enforced as against the rule unless a mod takes offence with the discussion. This isn't to say the mod in question is acting in bad faith but to say that if you see a discussion you don't like, you are more likely to subconsciously think about what rules it disobeys compared to a discussion you do like.

as an aside, with the repeal of section 230 in the political consciousness the idea of a community that wouldn't be able to talk about a policy goal that if successful, would mean the end of that community kinda seems silly no?

[Aloraydrel]

Trump lost

[Misdoubtful]

I have never seen a no politics rule that was enforced consistently.

Not even on the coderbus discord.

What always happens is certain semi-political discussions are never enforced as against the rule unless a mod takes offence with the discussion. This isn't to say the mod in question is acting in bad faith but to say that if you see a discussion you don't like, you are more likely to subconsciously think about what rules it disobeys compared to a discussion you do like.

as an aside, with the repeal of section 230 in the political consciousness the idea of a community that wouldn't be able to talk about a policy goal that if successful, would mean the end of that community kinda seems silly no?

This is honestly my biggest concern about something like no politics. When stuff that is politically charged or has political undertones masked as memes is getting posted all over, where does the line get drawn? Politics exists in part with just about everything. A minefield.

I still wouldn't bat an eye to see containment go, but what's the plan for once it would be gone? What would be consistent over time? Its not as easy as just deleting the channel.

[Swept]

I have never seen a no politics rule that was enforced consistently.

Not even on the coderbus discord.

What always happens is certain semi-political discussions are never enforced as against the rule unless a mod takes offence with the discussion. This isn't to say the mod in question is acting in bad faith but to say that if you see a discussion you don't like, you are more likely to subconsciously think about what rules it disobeys compared to a discussion you do like.

as an aside, with the repeal of section 230 in the political consciousness the idea of a community that wouldn't be able to talk about a policy goal that if successful, would mean the end of that community kinda seems silly no?

*offense

Dumbest thing i've ever heard. Delete the channel and enforce "no politics" however the admins you assign interpret the rule. I don't give a damn if they're biased, just make sure they're biased against people making an ass out of themselves in other channels a little more.

I don't even want to issue a response to your second statement, you must have been stoned out of your mind writing it because I can barely understand it. Bringing whatever American gobble-dee-gook law into the discussion about a multi-national politics channel on a space station 13 discord is so stupid I think you gave me cancer.

There are no downsides to deleting the channel. I dare you to name one.

[Ayy Lemoh]

I don't even want to issue a response to your second statement, you must have been stoned out of your mind writing it because I can barely understand it. Bringing whatever American gobble-dee-gook law into the discussion about a multi-national politics channel on a space station 13 discord is so stupid I think you gave me cancer.

There are no downsides to deleting the channel. I dare you to name one.

MSO is based in America, I believe. Only one server on /tg/station is even European unless Campbell/event hall comes back! Good salesman pitch, bro!

[Cobby]

Again, its 2 clicks to make your own server.

We can tell people to take it to a different platform like we do adminbus/chatter, which seems to work fine. It doesnt HAVE to be perfect, as long as everyone is generally aware that politics, or at least the hot topics you avoid at the dinnertable, should not be discussed at the spaceman one and that you may be asked to not continue a discussion on the current platform. Im not sure why we apply the logic that we cant have the rule because it isnt perfect, yet we have the bigot rule which is certainly far from perfectly consistent (we just had a recent discussion where some admins were confused about how slurs should be applied, and it seemed fairly split).

Edit: sorry it's like 4 + a text box where u put name in.

[Nervere]

Trump lost

so true

[Nervere]

For a serious reply on this topic though, I made the #politics-containment channel because political discussion was inevitable and unavoidable in #discussion-general.
There is no fair way to moderate political discussion (anti-politics rules never work or are enforced in a biased manner), so the solution is to relegate it all to a single place, hence the channel's creation.
If you do not like the content matter, do not look at it. This goes for players and admins. Do not complain when you don't like what you see in the containment zone.

[Armhulen]

Trump lost

Trust the plan.

[cacogen]

Banning all political discussion is stupid and I don't even know what comparison to make because this isn't even tumblr or ResetEra type thinking anymore where politics is great provided you agree with them and discuss it to their standards down to the word this is a weird sort of agnostic enforced civility (but only in regards to politics) that bans people for casually mentioning something big that's happening like these capitol riots recently because inevitably people will have different beliefs about them which may devolve into hot takes and shitflinging. The admins already mute OOC when it gets out of hand which feels little dicked as a player but that seems like all the recourse you need if someone is saying things that the admin thinks are offensive or promoting fringe, abrasive and exclusionary views or distracting people from the game with OOC spam or whatever the specific problems with discussing politics are. Expressing bigotry is already banned so that can't be one of them.

Trump lost

Trust the plan.

I would find it useful if we had a mandatory "political views" field in our forum user profiles so I can know when people are being serious or not when they say something in reference to politics.

[wesoda25]

We should add an "idiot" role or some variant and you can only see/post in the channel if you have it

[Kel]

if you want it gone: here is your solution

[Swept]

if you want it gone: here is your solution

Tell that to the person who deleted ntr-hut.

[cacogen]

mso tricked us into destroying it ourselves

[bobbahbrown]

if you want it gone: here is your solution

he doesn't need to do that because mso already specifically set permissions such that swept can't even see the politics containment channel. it would seem swept made this thread after being effectively banned from that channel.............

buzzing,
bobbah 'bee' brown

[Cobby]

Just FYI when we banned non serious topics from adminbus admins aren’t actually being banned left and right for that. They just get asked to move it to chatter. That would be the expectation here.

If your metric is not having any sort of politics on any channel ever again that’s quite silly, in the same sense banning any slur or something still might mean someone may drop the words. It’s a rule based entirely on a reaction of doing something, and it doesn’t even have the perk of being able to filter like a slur ban would.

Again my concern is not me personally being able to see politics, that garbage stays on mute. My concern is that anyone can post and view the section, and some people do not need to be looking in there as they will harbor grudges against those with different views. If it’s off server it makes it at least becomes not our problem until it manifests on the community, and the likelihood you will actually move the discussion and not just end it there is low anyways

[Swept]

if you want it gone: here is your solution

he doesn't need to do that because mso already specifically set permissions such that swept can't even see the politics containment channel. it would seem swept made this thread after being effectively banned from that channel.............

buzzing,
bobbah 'bee' brown

I've held this opinion for a long long time. If you look in the channel you can probably see me yelling at the people and asking for it to be deleted. I was spurred to make this thread after seeing the linked ban appeal thread about discussing disgusting topics and how it's obvious admins v players in that regard have an advantage that I @'d MSO in the channel to delete it. Then I made the forum post.

[Farquaar]

mso tricked us into destroying it ourselves

False. Feast your face on the truth.

[cacogen]

Wesoda may have singlehandedly stabbed Caesar nearly 100 times but all of us on that Google Sheets pie chart bear some responsibility for the fall

[oranges]

I promise that when I replace MSO as a host I will destroy the channel and institute the no politics rule as per coderbus

[Flatulent]

imagine wasting time on trying to replace MSO instead of wasting time on building a shrek-themed space station simulator like Swept

[YuiY1997]

mso tricked us into destroying it ourselves

False. Feast your face on the truth.

The hut was an inside job. But who funded it? The Freemasons? The Catgirl Mafia?