[Dreathtil] Into_the_woods -- 30 day ban for killing people as antag

[intothewoods]

BYOND account: Into_the_woods

Character name: Random name

Ban type: Server

Ban length: 30 days

Ban reason:

MRP Rule 5. -As an Antag, clearly committed to murderboning. No IC reason present or otherwise discernible to award leniency, and Logged off isntantly when they died despite being bwoinked. As I am led to understand they, hacked into armory and open fired on several people as they encountered them with no justification, personally witnessed them attacking a paramedic when they encountered them in the dorms, Hi-jack may of used to permit murderboning but since it has been redone, and you would know this if you followed the rules of game changes. Has been building up quite the bad history during their time, and has shown ample disregard in the past to adhere to Server Rules. Come back in a month, hopefully with the desire to follow and/or read the rules.

Time ban was placed: 2020-11-28 02:05:11

Server you were playing on when banned: Manuel

Round ID in which ban was placed: 151120

Your side of the story: I rolled blood brother. I looted the armory and then killed people to take their IDs as false identities. An angry mob robusted me and I died. I quickly closed the window without seeing any bwoink whatsoever. I did not ignore the admins, I was just logged off. To say that I logged off *after* being messaged is a straight-up falsehood. That simply never happened.

Why you think you should be unbanned: A 30-day ban from _all servers_ for killing people as an antag is self-evidently ridiculous. Maybe a 3-day ban is warranted at most, but in all honesty this ban should have never been applied.

[Dreathtil]

Hey glad you made an appeal I would of replied rather quickly to your appeal but the round had not ended yet.

Considering you only have 2 say logs for the entire round. And both of them happened very soon after I bwoinked you. This is on you.

[2020-11-28 01:41:05.708] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Dreathtil/(Alysha Gottem)->Into_the_woods/(Roscoe Power): So I heard you have been trying to Murderbone on Manuel even with the Hi-jack changes.
[2020-11-28 01:41:45.216] SAY: Into_the_woods/(Roscoe Power) "NOOO" (Dormitories (206,104,2))
[2020-11-28 01:41:47.326] SAY: Into_the_woods/(Roscoe Power) "NOT THE LYNCH MOB" (Dormitories (206,104,2))
[2020-11-28 01:42:43.156] ACCESS: Logout: Into_the_woods/(Roscoe Power)

I'm being lenient enough here, as I did consider 2 months or more for you, given your particular record over the past few months.

So I will be Denying this appeal, provided Headmins do not want to overrule. Take some long time off, to actually read and review the rules.

[intothewoods]

Don't know what to tell you, I respond promptly to all bwoinks and had no reason to not respond to this one. Perhaps I missed it in the heat of the robust moment, with lots of action and messages scrolling up my screen.

Anyway, you didn't at all address the absurdity of a 30-day ban. That's the crux of the issue here, and you look like you're evading it. So, here's another chance to come clean: how can you possibly justify a 30-day ban for killing two people as antag when that's obviously absurd by any reasonable measure?

[bobbahbrown]

I would like to interject here to say that if there was only a single admin PM, it is actually possible (though to what extent you will believe I will leave up to you) that this user didn't actually receive the adminpm in their tgchat window.

I have an issue open for tgchat dropping messages here on GitHub.

However, the user should have still heard the very distinct BWOINK sound, and their seeming lack of recollection of this does not bode well on this possibility.

[Dreathtil]

Well seeing as you want me to address the point of the ridiculous 30 day ban, and why I came to the decision I made.

You have managed to accumulate 11 notes in the past 2 months

You have been appearance banned twice for refusal to follow naming policy. One time was for 7 weeks, and over the past 24 hours received a permanent one after explicitly being warned.

Spoiler:

Banned from Roles: Appearance permanently - Either doesn't understand or chooses not to adhere to server rules regarding OOC names. Decided to disregard warnings and use "Johnny Reddit" after an appearance ban for a week for this name and has used bad faith names in the past.


If you don't wish to follow our rules on names then you will no longer get a choice.

Banned from Roles: Appearance for 7 days - Joined shift as Johnny Reddit and immediately went SSD. Second time this exact scenario has happened. Player has been warned about names that do not align with our naming policy in the past and has an active message asking them to change their name from Johnny Reddit as of yesterday.


Please re-read Rule 3 at https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules


This appearance ban is for a duration of 1 week. This should be ample time for you to read up on the naming policy and think of some new names to use.

It is to my understanding that during Manuel round 150474, you attempted to murderbone as well but, were stopped by crew (AI) before you could get your first kill, based on another admins observation.

Last Month to 2 months prior, you had an issue with calling all Felinid's Trannies, and attacking/harrassing them with no provocation Which culiminated in a perma-ban where you told Vekter you had the intent to evade. Alongside another naming policy incident

Spoiler:

Banned from the server permanently - Attacked a Felinid crewmember for killing a mouse after multiple other instances of attacking/calling Felinid players slurs. Has been warned about this behavior before. During adminhelps said they would "not be obeying" and insinuated they would be ban evading.

Banned from the server for 3 days - Repeat behaviour incident. Went around screaming cat-girls are trannies and attacking people. Seeing as this is both a repeat incident of bad behaviour and, you've been bwoinked over bad behaviour previously next time should be longer or even permanent if you fail to improve.

And to top it all off you started off your Note History with a Rule 8 infraction

Spoiler:

Too close to rule 8 with phrases like
66[07:26:51] Into_the_woods/(Johnny Taylor) (Medbay Treatment Center (185,94,2))
"HERE COMES THE POOPY!!!!"
65[07:26:19] Into_the_woods/(Johnny Taylor) (Medbay Treatment Center (183,94,2))
"POOPY!!!!!"
64[07:26:15] Into_the_woods/(Johnny Taylor) (Medbay Treatment Center (183,94,2))
"im gonna. im gona...."


Any more of this and I highly recommend a severe ban.

I don't know, maybe I'm the unreasonable badmin here for not giving you a permanent ban, seeing as you clearly have trouble following the rules like I already said

[Timberpoes]

Don't know what to tell you, I respond promptly to all bwoinks and had no reason to not respond to this one. Perhaps I missed it in the heat of the robust moment, with lots of action and messages scrolling up my screen.

As per my recent note on their account from from 2020-11-26, placed in round 151048, "Player was caught once again using the name Johnny Reddit across multiple rounds having just been appearance banned for the same name. They didn't respond until put in admin prison..."

This player has previously ignored admin PMs until forced into admin prison as recent as 2 days ago in a ticket dealt with primarily by myself with the assistance of JusticeGoat.

Anyway, you didn't at all address the absurdity of a 30-day ban. That's the crux of the issue here, and you look like you're evading it. So, here's another chance to come clean: how can you possibly justify a 30-day ban for killing two people as antag when that's obviously absurd by any reasonable measure?

As per my recent note on thier account from from 2020-11-26, placed in round 151048, "... My original punishment was going to be a 3 day server ban. The player has been told that any future issues would be dealt with far more severely as a condition of me exercising my discretion."

This player has recently been granted leniency in an administrative matter, receiving only a note instead of a planned server ban. They accepted the condition that they would be punished more harshly than usual if they broke any rules in the near future. This player then immediately went and got permanently apperance banned for using Johnny Reddit AGAIN on Sybil and then soon after broke Roleplay Rule 5 on Manuel (for which this appeal is about).

It is to my understanding that during Manuel round 150474, you attempted to murderbone as well but, were stopped by crew (AI) before you could get your first kill, based on another admins observation.

This was round 150470. https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/150470

The player raided the armoury and acquired a crew pinpointer as a blood brother on Manuel uber-lowpop. They wordlessly shot a player to death in the main hallways before hiding their body. They then attempted further murders in medbay, however they got killed by the purged AI who was protecting the crew (but not before killing one of the AI's shells)

I was monitoring the player during this time and was preparing to intervene before the AI killed them. Because nobody reported the matter and it was handled appropriately IC before the player could escalate to more than a single kill, I again exercised my discretion to consider this an IC issue. However, an intent to perform a murderbone in breach of MRP rule 5 was implied by the player's actions and preparations, as a result this incident was discussed in detail in the admin back channels. This should provide further context for Dreathtil's comments regarding this round and incident.

[intothewoods]

If I "ignored' admin PMs it's because of this issue:

I would like to interject here to say that if there was only a single admin PM, it is actually possible (though to what extent you will believe I will leave up to you) that this user didn't actually receive the adminpm in their tgchat window.

I have an issue open for tgchat dropping messages here on GitHub.

However, the user should have still heard the very distinct BWOINK sound, and their seeming lack of recollection of this does not bode well on this possibility.

I'd like to note that I play SS13 with the sound off. I listen to music or ambient sounds while playing, so it's impossible that I would have heard the bwoink. I actually don't know how to turn the sound back on -- I tried recently and was stumped.

Anyway, I have a compulsive need to reply to all messages (texts etc) that come my way. So no, I didn't see or hear it.

Re: the Johnny Reddit issue, I changed my name multiple times, but I forgot to save my character loadout when setting the name to Random. I guess the admins think I am part of some Master Plan to go by the name Johnny Reddit? And that's what justifies a 30-day ban? No, that didn't happen, and I did not see or hear any bwoink.

I'd like to reiterate that me "not having any justification for my killings as antag" is complete conjecture on the part of Dreathtil. It was a cursory guess arrived at without any kind of investigation or even curiosity. As I explained in the first post, I killed the paramedic because they are the closest role there is to criminal investigations outside of sec itself; they are an authority figure that I panicked around while looking suspicious. The other victim had to die so I could assume their identity, but i did not have time to because I was lynched so quickly.

[Dreathtil]

I'd like to reiterate

I'd like to reiterate that you appear to have trouble following the rules. As it has been stated multiple times. You haven't really addressed and/or cleared, this core concern.

Locking this thread, As I have denied this appeal, already, Headmins are free to overrule.

[ABearInTheWoods]

Leaving this here for future use:

[2:11 PM] bort: anyway this is objectively wrong ruling. Ill give it a few days to be remedied
[2:12 PM] bort: one way or another i am not accepting it as legitimate

[Coconutwarrior97]

Into_the_woods has asked for a headmin response to this thread. Which I'll get around to in the next couple of days when I have time. Until then don't move this to resolved yet.

[Coconutwarrior97]

We don't believe there is enough evidence here to support a note/ban. Into_the_woods killed two people, fired on two others, one was the warden with two shots and who can say whether the intent there was to murder or just to get him to fuck off since there's no followup after that.
The other was a lone mime in dorms, who ran and a lynch mob got involved. Banning people for what they intend to do needs to be done with concrete evidence as its not fair to assume people's intent without considerable evidence being there to support it.
There is the previous note history from timberpoes but that's more there to watch for situations happening, not necessarily as concrete evidence to be used in the situation that's being investigated.

This ban has been overturned.

Headmin Votes:
Coconutwarrior97: Overturn.
Domitius: Overturn.
Naloac: Overturn.