[ScaredOfShadows]Griffing and abuse of power

Lumbermancer · Post by **Lumbermancer** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:46 pm #57895

Byond account and character name: Lumbermancer, Schlomo Gaskin
Admin: Scaredofshadows as Pushes-And-Shoves
Time incident occured: 6:30 pst
Detailed summary:
Playing Security Officer, I got almost murdered by Zoey Webb - Syndicate Agent. She got arrested by me, and when en route to Brig, Pushes And Shoves disarmed me and pushed me down leading to her escape. I was on red, couldn't run, so I let her go, informing on sec channel. I decided to arrest Pushes and Shoves instead, I managed to stun and cuff him, but he repeatedly managed to remove my cuffs, using admin powers I presume (http://i.imgur.com/mzzZybw.jpg). After few minutes of trying to catch him, I grew tired and realized I was in no condition to chase him around the station anymore so I went to heal.

When coming back to brig, with beepsky on leash, I spotted Pushes and Shoves, building walls to block the brig entrance. I disabled him immediately, apprehending on the spot. In anger, I struck him repeatedly with a harmbaton, and dragged to perma. He was given Perma sentence as per aiding and abetting rule of Space Law (The same sentence as the original criminal.) Zoey Webb was placed in perma with him soon after. In perma cell, Pushes and Shoves complained about beating he received, i assured him he will receive medical aid (http://i.imgur.com/QWFXXSb.jpg). Medical Aid which he received promptly, (http://i.imgur.com/YVJzoUG.jpg) - Do note, that at the same time he used Admin Powers to make me recite WGW.

I considered this a case closed, and left Brig, informing newly arrived Warden about prisoners in perma (http://i.imgur.com/ySVb3sQ.jpg).

Few minutes later, I walked on Warden with Pushes-and-Shoves in cuffs near bridge area; I have no idea how they got there, my assumption is that Pushes-And-Shoves tried to escape. Unfortunately, AI was rogue, and electrified doors, zapping Warden, and letting Pushes-And-Shoves escape again. Again, after a frantic chase around the central area, I managed to catch him. Doors everywhere were electrified, so I knew I cannot get back to brig, just wait for shuttle now. I decided to harmbaton him on the legs a few times, to make him slower in case of another escape attempt, but changed my mind half way through because I realized I have cuffs, and made shackles for him instead.

It was at this point, that Pushes-and-shoves, turned into me - Schlomo Gaskin (http://i.imgur.com/zWA8wK9.jpg - me noticing his change). Which made me realize realized that he had to be a changeling. Given the situation on the station, with electrified doors and rogue AI, I decide to end his shenanigans once and for all, and execute him (http://i.imgur.com/LRq4wdL.jpg), on top of that, during the execution, I got changed into Pushes-And-Shoves (http://i.imgur.com/0fhdRCl.jpg)
Suddenly, when dragging the presumed Changeling to kitchen for gibbing, I was changed into assistant, all my items and sec gear was gone. I was surprised, and my first thought was that admins are playing pranks on me, so I lashed out on ahelp (http://i.imgur.com/tvvgwBs.jpg). I died soon after on electrified doors.

Other admin, tried to find what happened to me, asking if I didn't WGW (http://i.imgur.com/WlW50Tp.jpg), and in the end. I learned it was ScaredOfShadows enacting his vendetta against me (http://i.imgur.com/IWRKgyd.jpg).

I should have begun with foreword, that I had no idea that Pushes-And-Shoves is indeed ScaredOfShadows throughout the whole ordeal. So there.

ScaredOfShadows: I felt killing you was justified given the circumstances and my in character knowledge. Whether or not you think the two instances of beating were justified, there are better, IC ways of handling it.
I understand that as a Server Host you are more than God here, but I think you were mean to me for no raisin. I do not seek any retribution or anything of sort, I just wanted to tell my side of the story (as per advice of other people).

Roll it easy.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:52 pm #57897

All I will add to this, since I don't know the validity of the claim, is that I never knew the Lizard player Pushes-And-Shoves was SoS, cause from all my IC interactions and observations of that character, he's absolutely shitty.

Antonkr · Post by **Antonkr** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:22 pm #57903

This is gonna be a view from the security policy checkpoint.
Firstly, the pushing and shoving-

Code: Select all

If a person is intentionally fucking with security is yelling "rogue sec" or something similar, adminhelp it. This can be punished with a rule 1 violation ban.

Strike One

Secondly, being able to remove cuffs constantly leads to lethals being very much valid.

Code: Select all

A person that is intentionally fucking with security is to be brigged.
Should the brigging fail, he is to be permabrigged.
Should that fail, he is to be executed.

So far everything done here by security is IC. So is harmbatonning.

Blocking off the doors

Code: Select all

If a person is intentionally fucking with security is yelling "rogue sec" or something similar, adminhelp it. This can be punished with a rule 1 violation ban.

And lastly, investigating your own adminhelps

Code: Select all

Don't handle adminhelps against your own person. A simple "valid" for someone adminhelping about you, an antag, killing them, is fine, but don't debate your side of something with someone over admin PM's, have them make a ban request if they feel it's a major enough issue, or have another admin online at the time handle it

Code: Select all

Don't give yourself benefits using admin powers. This obviously includes revivals.

Absolutely fucking disgusting.

Rest of this will probably be a rant, but I fucking even asked you to play security for a few weeks or so to understand how it actually works, yet you are a host that most admins, IF NOT ALL consider a goddamn greyshittler. Now this is honestly crossing the line very badly, and this made me lose a lot of the respect I had for you. Want to gain it back, familiarize yourself with the rules on YOUR OWN server. Stop greytiding, and justifying greytiding (I fucking saw the shit that was your proposed security policy that was laughed out of adminbus).

And no, I don't give a shit about your "HURR SECURITY ARE JUST MALL COPS" bullshit. We all know that it isn't true, when they are responsible for facing a much more dangerous crew (as demonstrated by scaredy himself) , nuke ops (which are probably still easier to deal with versus this bullshit) revolutionaries etc. They likely deal with more shit then a real cop would.

Bluespace · Post by **Bluespace** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:00 pm #57909

As an admin involved with this at the time, I took and cut the logs to show lines containing the words scaredofshadows, lumbermancer, and admin.
I replaced various admin names with ANONYMOUS ADMIN.
I wish to remain impartial during this and i'm only posting the logs as I was on and participated in talking with Lumber at the time.
https://privatepaste.com/aadcd85108

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:08 pm #57911

[08:48:16]OOC: Scaredofshadows/Scaredofshadows : CHELP!
[08:49:31]ADMIN: Scaredofshadows/(Pushes-and-Shoves) modified black shoes's slowdown to -3

[09:09:10]ADMIN: Scaredofshadows/(Pushes-and-Shoves) healed / revived Scaredofshadows/(Pushes-and-Shoves)

[09:18:25]ADMIN: Scaredofshadows/(Pushes-and-Shoves) created a /obj/item/device/radio/headset/heads/hos

[09:19:57]ADMIN: Scaredofshadows/(Pushes-and-Shoves) has changeling'ed Pushes-and-Shoves.

[09:31:45]ADMIN: Scaredofshadows/(Schlomo Gaskin) healed / revived Scaredofshadows/(Schlomo Gaskin)

[09:32:34]ADMIN: Scaredofshadows/(Schlomo Gaskin) changed the equipment of Lumbermancer/(Pushes-and-Shoves) to Assistant.

It speaks for itself.

Brotemis · Post by **Brotemis** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:23 pm #57914

Antonkr wrote:This is gonna be a view from the security policy checkpoint.
Firstly, the pushing and shoving-
Code: Select all
If a person is intentionally fucking with security is yelling "rogue sec" or something similar, adminhelp it. This can be punished with a rule 1 violation ban.
Strike One

Secondly, being able to remove cuffs constantly leads to lethals being very much valid.
Code: Select all
A person that is intentionally fucking with security is to be brigged.
Should the brigging fail, he is to be permabrigged.
Should that fail, he is to be executed.
So far everything done here by security is IC. So is harmbatonning.

Blocking off the doors
Code: Select all
If a person is intentionally fucking with security is yelling "rogue sec" or something similar, adminhelp it. This can be punished with a rule 1 violation ban.
And lastly, investigating your own adminhelps
Code: Select all
Don't handle adminhelps against your own person. A simple "valid" for someone adminhelping about you, an antag, killing them, is fine, but don't debate your side of something with someone over admin PM's, have them make a ban request if they feel it's a major enough issue, or have another admin online at the time handle it
Code: Select all
Don't give yourself benefits using admin powers. This obviously includes revivals.
Absolutely fucking disgusting.

Rest of this will probably be a rant, but I fucking even asked you to play security for a few weeks or so to understand how it actually works, yet you are a host that most admins, IF NOT ALL consider a goddamn greyshittler. Now this is honestly crossing the line very badly, and this made me lose a lot of the respect I had for you. Want to gain it back, familiarize yourself with the rules on YOUR OWN server. Stop greytiding, and justifying greytiding (I fucking saw the shit that was your proposed security policy that was laughed out of adminbus).

And no, I don't give a shit about your "HURR SECURITY ARE JUST MALL COPS" bullshit. We all know that it isn't true, when they are responsible for facing a much more dangerous crew (as demonstrated by scaredy himself) , nuke ops (which are probably still easier to deal with versus this bullshit) revolutionaries etc. They likely deal with more shit then a real cop would.

As a former admin who railed hard against abuse of players, this is pretty pathetic SOS. As host, a lot of the shit you pull as an assistant is simply overlooked since you are the host, I should know; but doing this leaves an extremely bad taste in even my mouth. And as to disagreeing with Anton and banning him from IRC, any regrets I have about leaving are instantly extinguished because of that

In the interest of transperity and clarity: https://privatepaste.com/aadcd85108

scaredofshadows · Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:28 pm

I'm guilty of the griffing charges.

However, I am contesting the accusations of abuse of power. It seems that my methods are not appreciated by the valid hunting, 'gotta win' security players.

I will be evaluating security policies and applying jobbans and server bans instead of gently griffing bad security players in the future.

Lumbermancer · Post by **Lumbermancer** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:45 pm #57919

valid hunting, 'gotta win' security players.

Can you say which of my actions could be labelled as such? I play security 90% of the time, and I would consider myself fair but stern.

While you're at it, could you pull logs showing you repeatedly pushing me (even after I stunned you, and walked away. Twice I think) when I tried to drag Zoey to brig? Because that was justification for my futher actions.

Knowingly assisting a criminal is a crime. This includes but is not limited to: Interfering with an arrest, stealing a prisoner in transit, breaking a prisoner out of the brig/prison, hiding a fugitive, providing medical care (unless paired with a large dose of sleep toxins). The same sentence as the original criminal.

Is enforcing Space Law the "gotta win" playstyle?

And what about those handcuffs? I swear they magically disappeared after I cuffed you, on the west side of Bridge entrance. My logs seem to confirm it.

Jeb · Post by **Jeb** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:00 pm #57921

For what it's worth, we do have a fucking thread about a trialmin losing their shit because they spawned a fucking stamp.

Just throwing that out there.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:01 pm #57922

scaredofshadows wrote:I'm guilty of the griffing charges.

However, I am contesting the accusations of abuse of power. It seems that my methods are not appreciated by the valid hunting, 'gotta win' security players.

I will be evaluating security policies and applying jobbans and server bans instead of gently griffing bad security players in the future.

I dislike cuntface security players as much as any free man, but interfering with an arrest is asking for the anger and use of force by the security officer you're griefing. Schlomo was doing nothing wrong at all, and you were automatically in the wrong when you did what you did (intefering with arrest/freeing a traitor). Permabrig might have been too severe a punishment, but admingriefing a security player doing his job is very shitty. Greytiding should not be condoned and Schlomo dealt with it IC, you could have ahelped if you wanted it to be dealt with OOC and be free of permabrig.

Lumbermancer · Post by **Lumbermancer** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:05 pm #57924

Permabrig might have been too severe a punishment

As I mentioned in previous post, I simply walked away after stunning him the first time. But he followed us and persisted on disarming me. Then made me chase him for five minutes around bridge. And then I finally caught him walling off entrance to Brig.

I don't perma willy nilly, and If I wasn't alone in security at the time, I would leave him for Warden.

Jeb · Post by **Jeb** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:05 pm #57926

If a player interferes with a traitor being arrested, and enabling them to escape they get BWOINK'd.

A trailmin was temporarily deadminned because he spawned a stamp in order to give himself an in game advantage.

How do we deadmin the host? You can't just go "this guys being shitty, lets fuck with him all round to show him a lesson" then come here and say "I'm going to be a dick and outright ban shitty security players"

Host should not have admin 2015.

Jeb · Post by **Jeb** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:10 pm #57928

Oh and hey, why is it that we keep hearing about SoS threatening to ban people for saying "ayy" (not with a lmao, just ayy) yet he can go around going CHELP CHELP CHELP all the time?

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:15 pm #57929

SoS if you are going to be cracking down on what you consider "badsec" can you please elaborate on what that is? Lumber was arresting a traitor, you interfered and got arrested. He only killed you when you miraculously changed skins, which undeniably outed you as changeling as he had no idea you were using admin powers. I pretty much exclusively play sec and the thought of getting in trouble for doing my job makes me kinda uncomfortable.

scaredofshadows · Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:21 pm

Jeb wrote:If a player interferes with a traitor being arrested, and enabling them to escape they get BWOINK'd.

A trailmin was temporarily deadminned because he spawned a stamp in order to give himself an in game advantage.

How do we deadmin the host? You can't just go "this guys being shitty, lets fuck with him all round to show him a lesson" then come here and say "I'm going to be a dick and outright ban shitty security players"

Host should not have admin 2015.

Thanks.

Jeb wrote:Oh and hey, why is it that we keep hearing about SoS threatening to ban people for saying "ayy" (not with a lmao, just ayy) yet he can go around going CHELP CHELP CHELP all the time?

I'll stop CHELPing. Was it really upsetting people?

Jeb · Post by **Jeb** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:26 pm #57936

If I can't say ayyyy, which is something you can say in real life, then no you can't say chelp.

You need yo be held to the same standard as regular players, you don't get special privileges because you're an admin.

youngbuckliontiger · Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:37 pm

SoS has the right to do what he wants. He is the host and he pays the bills.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:50 pm #57944

SoS has given the head admins permission to render a judgement on him. This may result in a permanent or temporary server ban or removal of in-game administrative powers.

Head admins will need time to meet up and discuss the issue amongst ourselves.

Lumbermancer · Post by **Lumbermancer** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:55 pm #57945

If my opinion matters at this point, I'm fine with SoS keeping his privileges. I just wanted to talk it out, and maybe have discussion on admin player interactions.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:59 pm #57946

I'm a bit concerned about the "I will be evaluating security policies" part.

Jeb · Post by **Jeb** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:03 pm #57949

Saegrimr wrote:I'm a bit concerned about the "I will be evaluating security policies" part.

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:18 pm #57956

Ayy lmao is a meme. Chelp is something scared of shadows just said in a round one day and has no outside meaning.

danno · Post by **danno** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:29 pm #57959

scaredofshadows wrote:I'm guilty of the griffing charges.

However, I am contesting the accusations of abuse of power. It seems that my methods are not appreciated by the valid hunting, 'gotta win' security players.

I will be evaluating security policies and applying jobbans and server bans instead of gently griffing bad security players in the future.

...you gotta be kidding me if this is your response to this, sos

Jeb wrote:Host should not have admin 2015.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:49 pm #57965

>it's literally sec's job to protect the crew from antags
>it's powergame to arrest antags and it's powergame if they get upset when you fuck with them doing their job

i son't think any other admin has this much if a grudge against security. Yes, powergame MUH GREENTEXT DENIAL players still do exist, but they are MUCH less common than they used to be in the JLP era.

SoS editing his handcuffs off and the entire sec team trying to catch him is admittedly funny as all hell but come on now this guy didn't deserve your grey tider wrath, he was doing his job.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:46 pm #57997

As far as I'm aware, the policy is still only against netspeak. Memes in of itself are not bannable.

If SoS wishes to change the policy it would need to go through the proper channels, be communicated, etc.

EDIT: But yes please let's remain on topic now. This isn't about ayy lmao. I just needed to clarify something here.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:50 pm #58000

Personally I'd be disappointed to see this admin complaint derailed into yet another iteration of the crusade about, of all things, fucking "ayy lmao." There are more important things to discuss.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 9:59 pm #58006

Did I mention SoS re-enabled assistant maint but said "NO MAINT FOR SEC" even after a poll showed people wanted sec to have maint (and they did until he reverted it after being arrested one day).

Did I mention SoS almost exclusively plays assistant.

The bias is insurmountable.

Incomptinence · Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:04 pm

You can change sec policy in as many ways as you want SOS. You will still screw with security under any policy you can devise, your problems come from within. I mean you have had so many defangings of sec, fair few changes were initiated each time you greytided yourself to death.

AdenAbrafo · Post by **AdenAbrafo** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:04 pm #58011

Any discussion going on in this thread is pointless. What is the expected outcome from talking about this? He is very clearly in the wrong, it's obvious nothing is going to happen.

Delicious wrote: Nobody's mentioned the OOC IC and identifying himself as an admin to gain an in-round advantage in addition to all the other things he did:
[09:20:41]SAY: Pushes-and-Shoves/Scaredofshadows : AI [09:20:46]SAY: Pushes-and-Shoves/Scaredofshadows : How much do you want me to fuck with sssecurity thisss round
[09:25:46]SAY: Pushes-and-Shoves/Scaredofshadows : AI, I'm one of the godsss
[09:25:52]SAY: Pushes-and-Shoves/Scaredofshadows : I jussst like ssscrewing with asssssshole sssecurity

This is just terrible. Anything else I have to say about it would be taken as a personal insult.

Sven12 · Post by **Sven12** » Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:13 pm #58013

Scaredy, I think you do give yourself perks with your administrative powers. I've personally had to laser you to death multiple times after you noclip into the armory and kept reviving yourself over and over after being shot to death.

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:58 am #58122

This is beautiful. Simple, pure, unadulterated beauty. It really brings a tear to my eye, y'know?
Scared of Shadows, the server host, having an ironclad case for greytiding and admin abuse against him.
Ironclad. Flawless. Timestamped co-oberated logs, multiple admins witnessing, unapologetic ban appeals, threats to metagrudge, the whole shebang.

perma he

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:21 am #58129

AdenAbrafo wrote:Any discussion going on in this thread is pointless. What is the expected outcome from talking about this? He is very clearly in the wrong, it's obvious nothing is going to happen.

This thread is not pointless. An0n3, hg, and I just need time to get together and talk about this.

SoS has already given us permission to act against him, and I believe he is willing to follow whatever judgement we render.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:29 am #58130

Just saying, this here is a good example of why I still don't play security.
I don't wanna derp through old crap, but I went through a very similar experience with SoS but mine also ended with a ban.

soulgamer · Post by **soulgamer** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:07 am #58136

I would like to say that I would have never seen this coming but I am not that surprised. I have never had a positive IC or admin experience with SoS.

walket · Post by **walket** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:24 am #58143

This may be seen as unrelated, but I have also had a bad experience with SoS as Pushes-And-Shoves and as "syndicate operative" in a round this weekend (perhaps the same one, I am unsure).

I was the HoS and I heard reports of Pushes-and-Shoves pushing and shoving people. I arrested him, and the cuffs disappeared. He also seemed to be stun resistant. After constantly stunning him (thought he was a ling or an adrenal implant), I finally got him in a cell and he walked right through the cell door. I then stopped caring because I knew it was pointless and it was an admin messing with things.

I then spent the rest of the round chasing a man named Syndicate Operative who kept screaming "chelp detective murdered" and dealing with him. He had the same powers (stun resistance handcuff breaking and general god powers) and after he had almost killed me, I decided to take him to the gulag while keeping him stunned (it took two people and a lot of luck). After we escaped and returned to the station, I saw the guy with the same name and the same gear back in the brig with the same stun baton and water. After I died (I believe it was shocked doors, but I don't specifically recall) I then saw the same character walk through walls to get into the bridge to harass the detective more.

In dead chat, an admin (sometinyprick) said that he had turned a traitor into a "shadow". I expressed my frustration to him, believing that the syndicate operative I gulaged was the "shadow" and the admin had spawned an invincible character. I later found out that my syndicate operative was SoS and the "shadow" was the clown (who also had the name syndicate operative).

It was a very frustrating round all in all. But SoS has been reasonable when I've talked with him and he's the host so whatever. But I'd appreciate a head's up from him (he may have been busy playing) next time so I can just ignore his character and I don't go blaming innocent admins. When I learned it was SoS I kind of laughed it off, because in retrospect with all the facts it was pretty funny (the shuttle fight especially). But certainly something I would be angry if a regular admin/player did.

I'm not sure if this is the same incident/round, but it happened this weekend and I feel that it is certainly related to the topic at hand.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:33 am #58165

Ikarrus wrote:
AdenAbrafo wrote:Any discussion going on in this thread is pointless. What is the expected outcome from talking about this? He is very clearly in the wrong, it's obvious nothing is going to happen.
This thread is not pointless. An0n3, hg, and I just need time to get together and talk about this.

SoS has already given us permission to act against him, and I believe he is willing to follow whatever judgement we render.

"given us permission" sure doesnt sound like the headmins have any ability to stop SoS abusing power. Hell, he doesnt seem like the kind of person who would abuse power in the first place, but here we are.

Server host should not have any special treatment or power over headmins. Its a recipe for abuse and when the shit hits the fan, you cannot do anything because he is in the "Well he hosts the server for free" position.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:39 am #58172

We literally cannot touch him unless he allows us to so long as he remains the server host. He has direct (likely physical) access to the servers.

The only way we'd be able to enact anything is if he allows us to, and he follows our judgement. And he's been gracious enough to give us the go ahead thus far. There is no way around it, and it's the best we can do.

All I ask is that you guys wait until the headmins have come to a decision. Which will take time, as something like this is going to require all three of us to be involved.

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:47 am #58175

A resolution is forthcoming, we're just waiting on HG so there can be a definite consensus among the three of us and not a 2/3rds decision.

Not that I haven't been following the discussion here, I've refrained from posting because Ikky seems to be saying everything I otherwise would and drawing out the conversation when we're very close to a resolution seems somewhat pointless.

Rest assured, something will be done.

Aurx · Post by **Aurx** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:50 am #58176

Ikarrus wrote:We literally cannot touch him unless he allows us to so long as he remains the server host. He has direct (likely physical) access to the servers.

The only way we'd be able to enact anything is if he allows us to, and he follows our judgement. And he's been gracious enough to give us the go ahead thus far. There is no way around it, and it's the best we can do.

All I ask is that you guys wait until the headmins have come to a decision. Which will take time, as something like this is going to require all three of us to be involved.

You're underestimating the effect you could have if administration engaged in a concerted protest.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:51 am #58177

You're underestimating the effect you could have if administration engaged in a concerted protest.

That's still coercion. In the end, we cannot actually force him to do anything he does not want to do on the server he owns.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:58 am #58180

Ikarrus wrote:
You're underestimating the effect you could have if administration engaged in a concerted protest.
That's still coercion. In the end, we cannot actually force him to do anything he does not want to do on the server he owns.

He owns the physical server, not the community or the administration. Him getting away with abusing his admin powers and dodging punishment because he owns the server is a far worse crime than anything the admins could do to him.

For the record, ill just add that im not trying to be a jerk, i understand that the headmins are doing what they can, and are actually talking in this thread which is great.

KingLouisXIV · Post by **KingLouisXIV** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:05 am #58183

I've held a position of power in more than a few online communities, servers, etc. and in all but one of them, I have not witnessed this flagrant amount of power abuse from a head staff member or a host. I'm extremely disappointed and embarrassed that our server host, of all members of our team, would take these actions during a round. Being the owner of a server automatically entitles you to a say in how it is run, privileges where you have access to internal tools in the game and also the ability to cheat, built-in or not. This is a huge "Uncle Ben" (Spider-man) example where the host is trusted to keep themselves in check and not abuse his position.

Why?

We cannot simply oust a server host from the community. We, as well as the host, are both well aware that without him paying the bills, this entire shebang would not exist. We'd be struggling on poorly funded hardware or worse, home hardware, and then what? We lose players, those players aren't always easy to get back. Once a community or server starts hemorrhaging members, it's difficult to recover. It leaves a sour taste in my mouth when a server owner suddenly realizes all of this and decides that they're above whatever would come to those who did the same exact thing or less and just... get away with it.

It's no secret that Scaredy has had a very obvious vendetta against the entire Security department in-game, most Security players and seemingly the existence of the job in general. I'm in dismay and appalled that it has come so far as to constantly escape cuffs, stuns, and even death using admin privledges just to "put those redshirts in their place." Do I want another CDB era of jackboots marching in unison through the halls and maintenance tunnels, ready with full armor and energy guns at ready to plaster any criminal scum against the wall into a fine, ashen mist? .. No, not at all. But this is a game at it's core, and it's got to have the potential to be fun for everybody, not just antagonists.

I only fear for what this entire situation will bring about for the server in the future.

P.S. -- The one server I was an admin on where the host fucked with players was a TF2 server specifically designed to allow you to fuck with other players by micspamming, being a jackass, or if you donated to keep the server running, you'd get some admin rights. More-so the more you donated. It was not uncommon to have somebody add 99999 HP to themselves and go on a rampage, and it was all kept fun and light-hearted. If you couldn't deal with it, took it seriously or just didn't quite fit in, you'd be banned for "Racism."

RG4 · Post by **RG4** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:24 am #58190

Violaceus wrote:I think SoS should play some security in high population rounds and see how does it feel.

Mix in some Rev and Cult and you got the perfect storm of empathy.

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:35 am #58197

That would actually be amazing, especially becuase it isn't an administrative power reduction which is problematic. It is still a self enforced punishment, but one intended to instill some empathy with what is ultimately an important role that has a lot of design based around them actually trying to do their job well.

It really is something every admin should try, getting on all sides of legitimate play as much as possible.

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:49 am #58203

Violaceus wrote:I think SoS should play some security in high population rounds and see how does it feel.

Poetic justice.

KingLouisXIV · Post by **KingLouisXIV** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:50 am #58204

I propose a jobban from all roles except those related to Security.

Sum Ting Wong · Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:36 am

What good would that do?

This isn't something that you can fix with a jobban. He violated the trust we put in our host. The best solution I can see right now is not playing security while I see him in OOC.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:01 am #58215

Job ban isnt really appropriate. He abused his admin powers, not job position.

iRazgriz · Post by **iRazgriz** » Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:06 am #58229

Sec is the most unrewarding shit right after 95% of the AI rounds.
Some people should really try it from time to time.