Clarify Headmin Ruling Regarding SM Suicide

[bobbahbrown]

As this has recently come up, it has become necessary that we have a clarification on a previous ruling by Kor

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 1&p=290067

from this thread, Kor stated that suiciding into a SM is a bannable offense. I think the majority of the administration has taken this to mean that if a player were to suicide into the supermatter prior to setting it up, then the resulting engine failure that may occur would be on them, and hence it was sabotaging the station -- I believe that the rule of thumb is that if the engine was set up (ie cooled) prior to the suicide of the player, then it doesn't matter.

can we clarify if this common belief is true?

best,
bobbah "bee" brown

[Cobby]

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... #L887-L888

If you cause it to derp up at any time (especially prior to setup) or it causes someone to die due to the rads or as an effect because of the rads, i personally am not going to be too thrilled.

There are plenty of ways to say you dont want to play that dont carry these potential consequences one could use.

[Naloac]

suiciding into the sm prior setup is griefing. after setup its a basic suicide like any other. in my opinion. in all my playtime I have never really encountered the rads from suicides every actually being a problem.

[Cobby]

It used to be an issue before people realized how strong rads could be (maybe it was nerfed i dont really keep up with radiation).

[Flatulent]

it’s literally just two fucking radius rads who cares about two radius rads when being within this radius is just standing in sm chamber

[Cobby]

sure and if for some reason someone was doing something in the SM chamber and you suicide and the rads directly caused the user to die, I will be bwoinking you.

Again, there are plenty of ways to say you dont want to play that dont carry these potential consequences one could use.

[Flatulent]

I think standing that without radiation suit in active sm chamber is a terrible idea all around but maybe that’s just me

if man had 30k radiation, what’s the difference between 32 and 30?

[Cobby]

I dont disagree but I am also not going to say you're free from trouble because they didn't wear a rad suit.

If it causes the people who are interested in playing trouble i'm going to bwoink you for it, regardless of how that manifests (SM delamming, rads ending up killing someone, etc.). You are not obligated in ANY way to suicide by SM.

[Naloac]

I dont disagree but I am also not going to say you're free from trouble because they didn't wear a rad suit.

If it causes the people who are interested in playing trouble i'm going to bwoink you for it, regardless of how that manifests (SM delamming, rads ending up killing someone, etc.). You are not obligated in ANY way to suicide by SM.

yes but if theres no harm done you wouldnt bwoink them. its the same via suicide in any other way.

[wesoda25]

If it causes harm to someone/something, ahelp. If not, don’t. Anything else is a shitty banbot mentality.

[Nabski]

There was also a meta at the time that ruling was made of using the SM anytime you wanted to suicide. It was exploding almost every round and if someone ran into it it was probably going to delaminate. It eventually got nerfed.

[Cobby]

I dont disagree but I am also not going to say you're free from trouble because they didn't wear a rad suit.

If it causes the people who are interested in playing trouble i'm going to bwoink you for it, regardless of how that manifests (SM delamming, rads ending up killing someone, etc.). You are not obligated in ANY way to suicide by SM.

yes but if theres no harm done you wouldnt bwoink them. its the same via suicide in any other way.

Yes, i was hoping my previous statement would imply that.

[NecromancerAnne]

There was also a meta at the time that ruling was made of using the SM anytime you wanted to suicide. It was exploding almost every round and if someone ran into it it was probably going to delaminate. It eventually got nerfed.

If this is the case, the only thing we should be utilizing in current era is deliberately sabotaging the sm via suicide. Nothing more. Suiciding frequently is already covered elsewhere in the rules as a form of antag rolling or presumed antag rolling.

[skoglol]

Unless you perma open the doors, suiciding into a running supermatter wont harm anything. The rad pulse it lets off is barely felt (if at all) outside the chamber as its got a heavy range dropoff, and you make a tiny bit of extra power. Actually, dusting yourself is maybe one of the cleanest ways of suiciding, since it deletes all your stuff including your corpse and ID.

[TheFinalPotato]

Let's put some numbers to that value

To elaborate on the power effect, it's like adding 2/3ds of an emitter for 2.5 seconds. That's 40 eer per second, which is about 1/38 of a normal setup. The rads output at 1500 eer is around about 1600/1700, that's a ballpark not accounting for temp/gasmix, but assuming something like 200k and a very slightly plasma/o2 mix, both of which are common in the roundstart setup.

This would scale nearly linearly with an increase in power at such a small amount, so we could expect a rad output of about 1700/1800 or so.
The rad output of a human consume is about 3000, with a range modifier of 2. This does not describe the range of the wave per say, it's a multiplier applied to the amount of drop-off radiation experiences.
So a value of 2 means for every 1 step a normal pulse travels, we experience twice the drop-off

Not forgetting to take into account the fact that rads only fire half the time, we're getting the equivalent of an extra second of normal radiation, with a higher burst at the center (Assuming I did my nightmaths correctly), and around about 1 + 1/38th of the normal rads over 2.5 seconds. So unless the sm is say not set up to take an emitter beam, the most this will do is provide a slight bump in power output, as is fitting for a spaceman's death.

[gum disease]

If the policy is changed, the wiki also needs to be updated because it literally says this in red at the top of this page:
Do NOT run into the Supermatter to commit suicide! You will be banned.

Given that directing players to the wiki is something I do, and have seen other admins do - it's not good if there's incorrect information regarding what is banworthy and what isn't.

[NecromancerAnne]

Man, suiciding into the supermatter sure sucks for power compared to suicide into the singularity.

[Cobby]

If the policy is changed, the wiki also needs to be updated because it literally says this in red at the top of this page:
Do NOT run into the Supermatter to commit suicide! You will be banned.

Given that directing players to the wiki is something I do, and have seen other admins do - it's not good if there's incorrect information regarding what is banworthy and what isn't.

you should disclaimer that unprotected pages might have misinformation, so if they have a question they should view the respective protected pages or F1 to ensure accuracy.

Admins should NOT be directing people to rulings in the wiki that are not in a protected page as it can cause players to get banned as a result.

[Arianya]

yeah its worth noting as a general point that anything that isn't on a moderated page is noise as far as the rules or administration is concerned.

Anyone can edit unmoderated pages and given how relatively untrafficked the wiki's edit side is it means a sneaky edit can remain for a while.

I understand why that notice was put there as a friendly heads up by the original author of the guide but it should probably be made to look less "flashy"/official like it was in original page so that it's clear it's a random bit of advice and not an official notice or the like.

[bandit]

Note, though, that the "making it more flashy/noticeable" part was done by Atlanta-Ned, an admin:

https://tgstation13.org/wiki//index.php ... ldid=24345

[gum disease]

If the policy is changed, the wiki also needs to be updated because it literally says this in red at the top of this page:
Do NOT run into the Supermatter to commit suicide! You will be banned.

Given that directing players to the wiki is something I do, and have seen other admins do - it's not good if there's incorrect information regarding what is banworthy and what isn't.

you should disclaimer that unprotected pages might have misinformation, so if they have a question they should view the respective protected pages or F1 to ensure accuracy.

Admins should NOT be directing people to rulings in the wiki that are not in a protected page as it can cause players to get banned as a result.

For the record, I don't direct them to unprotected rulings; I direct them to guides about things like cult or how to set up the SM (like that page).

However, if I am gonna link them to that "Guide to the SM" page, I will make a point to tell them not to take the above warning as gospel as this isn't how SM suicides are enforced.

[wesoda25]

Note, though, that the "making it more flashy/noticeable" part was done by Atlanta-Ned, an admin:

https://tgstation13.org/wiki//index.php ... ldid=24345

I wasn’t aware that atlanta ned determines policy via his wiki edits. This is good information to know going forward, thank you bgo!

[Coconutwarrior97]

Suicide into an SM that is not set up, or that results in a delam is bannable. If you suicide into it, and it continues operations as normal without harmful side effects there is no issue.

Headmin votes:
Coconutwarrior97: Yes.
Phuzzylodgik: Yes.
TWATICUS: Yes.