[DISCORD] Nervere#0001

Nervere · Post by **Nervere** » Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:48 pm #525434

Discord username: Nervere#0001
Banning admin: Plapatin
Ban reason:

Time ban was placed: Not sure. About a month ago, I think.

Your side of the story:
This ban is unfounded and was built upon misunderstanding and ignorance.
I will address this ban's reasons point-by-point. I expect for this ban appeal to be a discourse. There's a lot to this ban that can't simply be solved in one or two questions and replies.
I sought out Plapatin in private to resolve this erroneous ban, since it can potentially contain personal information. Unfortunately, Plapatin was mostly unresponsive.

"Drama stirring within the community"
Like most of the reasons cited in this ban, this is hard to address. Since it's so vague, it could mean anything.
I learned my lesson when Morto banned me from the Discord server. Morto and I had a long talk after she banned me.
Initially, I disagreed with some of her reasoning in the ban, but we came to agree that I was acting like a dick, and her ban was justified for that reason.
I didn't act like a dick after I was unbanned, nor did I "stir drama".

"Has admitted to only wanting to be here for entertainment"
What the hell is this? Did you seriously take a quote out of context to justify banning me?
Here's the context, pieced together from some screenshots:

Clearly, what I'm saying is that I'm in the community for entertainment from my friends.
Is that not what gaming communities are for? Having fun with your friends? What's your point?
Frankly it shows how quickly put-together this ban was that you'd cite this.

"Toxic attitude on Discord"
This part would be true if it were before MortoSasye banned me. It's not true, though. I shaped up after Morto banned me and we had a conversation in private.
Here is an excerpt that I encourage the banning admin to read. I'm not going to dump our entire conversation, some of it isn't relevant and some parts contain adminbus screenshots.
I've also censored some names so unrelated people aren't dragged into stupid drama.

Spoiler:

MortoSasye 15-Oct-19 06:57 PM
You kept being hostile even afterwards
I don't care by the way about you apologizing to me, I want you to make me believe you will change for the better
And stop behaving this way
You're not the person I knew a year ago. I don't know what happened, but since your term ended you're constantly being hostile against everyone

Nervere 15-Oct-19 07:01 PM
Good question. It's a two-fold thing. Firstly, I couldn't have a conversation on the topic anywhere, anytime, without having a group of people attack me for what I had said, even though I had already tried to take steps back from it. Believe me, I wanted to get this out of my hair, I just wanted for it to be over and the last weeks of my headminship were torture for me. But I didn't feel empowered to apologize when I was still being attacked for it. To me, that would allow people who constantly attack me to have a "victory" over me. People like [removed name], [removed name] (sometimes), and [removed name] who made it their goal to make my life hell during my headmin term had also been the people championing the public attacks against me.

I was stuck between a rock and a hard place, and sort of still am, because I want the conflict to end (and still do) but I find it mentally hard to do with these people on my ass.
I can tell you why I'm not the same person you knew.
At the end of my headmin term I felt empowered to be a dickhead to everyone because I knew I'd be exiting adminbus and I felt I had to make things right against the people who had wronged me. So, when people ([removed name] for example) would call me names in public or make stupid comments meant to make me angry, I no longer had the motivation or self-restraint to be the better man. So I'd argue with them, sink to their level, and be a piece of shit.
When my headmin term ended, this retarded power high didn't, so I kept lashing out against people who cared for me over stupid shit. So that's why I left the discord. I tried to distance myself from the community after that, but then people who didn't like me kept making fun of me for announcing my leave (they say the post I made in #announcements was egotistical. maybe true but i just wanted to get /tg/ out of my life). So I came back and started engaging in the same self-destructive behavior.
This came to a head when I was spamming.
As much as I'd like to play it off, I was just being a little fucker because I let the power get to my head at some point and thought I was immune to breaking the rules.
When I came back, and you expressed your disappointment in me, it did meant a lot.
I don't think I have caused problems since then. I don't plan on causing more.

I stuck by my word and stopped being hostile to people upon my unban. So, why am I being banned for this?

"Toxic attitude on the forums"
What does this have to do with Discord?
Where was I ever "toxic" on the forums? Cite examples.
(Side note: toxic is a vague word with no meaning, I don't trust its use in ban reasons because it can retroactively be transformed to mean anything.)

"Investigating into personal information"
I didn't dox anyone. I talked it out with the person you were accusing me of doxing, and we have come to an understanding. There was no malice here.
If you want to talk about this, you're going to do it with me in DM's, I'm not going to put someone at public risk for a Discord ban.

Why you think you should be unbanned:
As I've demonstrated above, this ban has no legs to stand on. It is based off of rushed-to conclusions, removed context, and ignorance.
I reformed my misguided behavior after Morto and I had a discussion during my first ban. This ban is unjust.

MortoSasye · Post by **MortoSasye** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:33 am #525599

Could you explain why when I went to collect the conversation I had with you all of your messages were gone? All of your side is missing from even back on july of 2018.

I have already asked before posting this and blocking someone does not delete their side of the chat. The full conversation now looks like the following but thankfully I shared it in headminbus so they will probably post it here later:

Spoiler:

Nervere · Post by **Nervere** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:56 pm #525667

Sure.
After you @everyone'd with your resignation and blocked me immediately after, you started saying in #discussion-general about how you were glad to finally rid yourself of "the burden of defending terrible people", or something along those lines. I'm paraphrasing, because obviously I can't get the direct quotes while banned. Given that you used the rush in activity in the Discord server from your mass-ping to attack me, for whatever reason (I thought we were on good terms?), all of my trust in you was instantly shattered. My chat history with you included not only stuff about the ban, but a lot of personal information about myself, too. I'm not going to leave that PII around with someone who does that to me.

Given that how you told me you sent the full logs of our discussion on my first ban to the headmins, as we agreed upon, I figured this purge wouldn't be a problem. However, I have a text-based archive of our chat, if necessary.

MortoSasye · Post by **MortoSasye** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:05 pm #525668

Nervere wrote:Sure.
After you @everyone'd with your resignation and blocked me immediately after, you started saying in #discussion-general about how you were glad to finally rid yourself of "the burden of defending terrible people", or something along those lines. I'm paraphrasing, because obviously I can't get the direct quotes while banned. Given that you used the rush in activity in the Discord server from your mass-ping to attack me, for whatever reason (I thought we were on good terms?), all of my trust in you was instantly shattered. My chat history with you included not only stuff about the ban, but a lot of personal information about myself, too. I'm not going to leave that PII around with someone who does that to me.

Given that how you told me you sent the full logs of our discussion on my first ban to the headmins, as we agreed upon, I figured this purge wouldn't be a problem. However, I have a text-based archive of our chat, if necessary.

It doesn't make any sense to delete all of it instead of just the sensitive messages. I don't know what your problem is, but I'm not like the people you relate to and I wouldn't divulge personal info trusted to me.

The only thing you accomplished is to seem sketchy as hell by doing such an action; I won't input any further in this appeal since the headmins can decide what to do with this information going forward.

Nervere · Post by **Nervere** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:18 pm #525670

Nah, you're not being victimized by this. Someone who does what you did can't be trusted, plain and simple.
There's nothing "sketchy" about deleting a conversation that you had already archived and sent to the headmins.
Here's the full conversation between you and I. I'm going to exclude the adminbus screenshots you posted in the DM just to be safe.

Spoiler:

No secret I never ended up apologizing to Hulk and John, to be frank I had forgotten about it.
I'm pretty sure by the time I'd realized, I had already left the /tg/ community because Plapatin applied this ban to me.
At that point, I'd basically given up, and this was certainly not on my priorities (and also John had me blocked).

MortoSasye · Post by **MortoSasye** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:34 pm #525678

Changing the subject due to the relevance of the following discovery:

Mind telling us why you were evading on the discord and yet here claim to have changed?

Spoiler:

This account was used yesterday by the way. So it wasn't like you stopped using it once you got banned.

Nervere · Post by **Nervere** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:37 pm #525679

That's not me. That's Bobah. He's a completely different person.

MortoSasye · Post by **MortoSasye** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:38 pm #525680

Nervere wrote:That's not me. That's Bobah. He's a completely different person.

why did they use your alt ckey to verify then? It shares your same CID.

Nervere · Post by **Nervere** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:39 pm #525681

It's obviously my account. It shares a CID. Why did he use it to verify himself? I don't know.
You're silly as hell, though, if you think I'd be dumb enough to evade AND use a CID-linked account to do it.

MortoSasye · Post by **MortoSasye** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:42 pm #525683

The account Bobah will be banned due to suspicions of it being an alt of a banned person.

I'm going to stop giving input now since this was discussed in adminbus.

Nervere · Post by **Nervere** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 5:43 pm #525684

You're making a fool of yourself. That's not my Discord account.
I think an easy way to prove this would be for us three to have a voice call.

Bobah · Post by **Bobah** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 6:42 pm #525699

MortoSasye wrote:The account Bobah will be banned due to suspicions of it being an alt of a banned person.

I'm going to stop giving input now since this was discussed in adminbus.

i am not nervere i am bobah

Nervere · Post by **Nervere** » Mon Nov 25, 2019 7:26 pm #525708

I've spoken with Bobah, apparently I gave him permission to identify as my alt account some two months ago, since he doesn't have a BYOND account.
Considering that he's not evading anything, and hasn't been banned before what Morto just did, I don't think it's much of an issue.
I do recognize that it can be seen as an abuse of the verification system, though, and for that I apologize.
It was a snap-decision in VC so miniscule to me that I didn't remember until reminded of it, I had no bad intentions.

Tivianne · Post by **Tivianne** » Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:20 am #525784

I was in the voice chat when Nervere had given Bobah that ckey, The entire exchange was basically "oh i can't talk in TG i have to be verified", "just post your ckey", "i don't have one", "ok here use this ckey". There was no malicious intent nor did Bobah intent do stir drama by joining TG.

MortoSasye · Post by **MortoSasye** » Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:08 am #525805

The ban on the account Bobah will stay in place for now. I think it should be obvious you shouldn't share your accounts with other people since there's no way to prove them not being you without suspicions of foul play (Titan being part of your friends group and not an outsider just providing a witness report of sorts, how easily someone could log in on the Bobah discord account and vc with you on your main account, etc.)

As always, headmins are free to lift the ban and disregard it as an alt of yours.

Nervere · Post by **Nervere** » Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:55 am #525809

???
Are you saying Bobah is actually my alternate account, and if I try to prove he's not with by using our voices, we're actually sharing login credentials?
First off, that's against Discord ToS. Secondly, what you're saying is so silly that I'm at a loss to prove how you're wrong, because I have no idea where you're even getting your information from.

Take a look at this. Unless I'm an alt of Bobah or something (again, ???), why is Bobah's account older than mine?

Bobah · Post by **Bobah** » Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:18 am #525814

MortoSasye wrote:The ban on the account Bobah will stay in place for now. I think it should be obvious you shouldn't share your accounts with other people since there's no way to prove them not being you without suspicions of foul play (Titan being part of your friends group and not an outsider just providing a witness report of sorts, how easily someone could log in on the Bobah discord account and vc with you on your main account, etc.)

As always, headmins are free to lift the ban and disregard it as an alt of yours.

so there is no possible way to prove that i am not nervere

Nervere · Post by **Nervere** » Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:38 am #525817

Can we stop wasting this time with this ridiculous claim? I don't think anyone but Morto believes that Bobah is my alt.
Let's move on to the actual appeal. Trying to reason Morto out of something she didn't reason her way into is seriously killing my brain cells.

Timonk · Post by **Timonk** » Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:35 pm #525982

hey boys i got an interresting viewpoint:

bobah is an old account of nevere

my proof: bobah has never once joined under his Ckey "BobahNotNevere" and why would he be on the discord for so long if he only created a byond account for this occation? what is his real ckey? has he ever played ss13 before?
apart from that, it is possible that bobah is only posting short posts to not let Neveres personality shine through. and even then bobah is all too similar to nevere as shown here:

Spoiler:

i mean, i didnt know that shit when i was new
if you ask me, morto is right.
also he hasnt played with 0bobah0 on tg either. nevere you gotta put more sauce in your fake personality next time

Bobah · Post by **Bobah** » Tue Nov 26, 2019 2:36 pm #525993

Timonk wrote:hey boys i got an interresting viewpoint:

bobah is an old account of nevere

my proof: bobah has never once joined under his Ckey "BobahNotNevere" and why would he be on the discord for so long if he only created a byond account for this occation? what is his real ckey? has he ever played ss13 before?
apart from that, it is possible that bobah is only posting short posts to not let Neveres personality shine through. and even then bobah is all too similar to nevere as shown here:
Spoiler:
i mean, i didnt know that shit when i was new
if you ask me, morto is right.
also he hasnt played with 0bobah0 on tg either. nevere you gotta put more sauce in your fake personality next time

So I guess to defend myself I am definitely not nervere, and I mentioned that 1b thing yesterday because I was talking to someone and they told me what rule 1b was which I don’t even remember I just said it because it was funny. I played space station 13 on an account called 0bobah0 years ago but the account is inactive and couldn’t be recovered. I would
normally play as assistant because I had no idea what I was doing. Eventually I played lawyer, played clown a couple times, played genetics a lot and learned how to do that stuff, but it’s been years. BYOND account recovery is trash so rip 0bobah0. I made this account so I could get a ckey and post on the forums, and hopefully rejoin the server. This issue really could be resolved by a simple conversation with someone via voice chat but it doesn’t seem to be that anyone is too interested in that. I don’t send many messages in the TG discord other than me saying “i hate bobbahbrown” because he is my friend and that’s who I would go talk to and various other people. I’m more active in voice chat than anything, and will pop in to say hello to people like bobbah since he is never in the other discord. I don’t see how I’m much of a problem, and why people are so stuck on my being an alt. There is a million ways I can prove I’m not, but nobody wants me to really do that so I’ve been making light of the situation.

EDIT: I also don’t know how you guys keeps saying I act like nervere when you have never had a conversation with me.

Lazengann · Post by **Lazengann** » Tue Nov 26, 2019 3:19 pm #526002

Yesterday I heard Nervere and bobah talking in voice chat at the same time.

Nervere · Post by **Nervere** » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:04 pm #526030

Someone please save us from this autism.

Here's a tip: Admins have access to moderator logs, headmins have access to the phpBB Admin Control Panel.
Not sure what IP's moderator logs show, but from the ACP, you can see the last IP of a user on their individual user page.
You can cross-reference my IP with Bobah's, and then use my instructions pinned in #admin-bus to verify that neither are proxies.
If it's no longer pinned or you can't find the post, DM me on Discord and (if you're an admin) I'll send you the write-up I did on verifying legitimate IP addresses.
Hope this helps. ^w^

LacertaPes · Post by **LacertaPes** » Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:39 pm #526034

Nervere wrote:Someone please save us from this autism.

Here's a tip: Admins have access to moderator logs, headmins have access to the phpBB Admin Control Panel.
Not sure what IP's moderator logs show, but from the ACP, you can see the last IP of a user on their individual user page.
You can cross-reference my IP with Bobah's, and then use my instructions pinned in #admin-bus to verify that neither are proxies.
If it's no longer pinned or you can't find the post, DM me on Discord and (if you're an admin) I'll send you the write-up I did on verifying legitimate IP addresses.
Hope this helps. ^w^

This person didn’t show up on the boards until the 25th. In fact after Morto brought it up. If you coordinated with a friend obviously it’ll show a non proxy IP. If they signed up a week before or a couple days before I’d say this method would be reliable.

Bobah · Post by **Bobah** » Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:17 pm #526043

LacertaPes wrote:
Nervere wrote:Someone please save us from this autism.

Here's a tip: Admins have access to moderator logs, headmins have access to the phpBB Admin Control Panel.
Not sure what IP's moderator logs show, but from the ACP, you can see the last IP of a user on their individual user page.
You can cross-reference my IP with Bobah's, and then use my instructions pinned in #admin-bus to verify that neither are proxies.
If it's no longer pinned or you can't find the post, DM me on Discord and (if you're an admin) I'll send you the write-up I did on verifying legitimate IP addresses.
Hope this helps. ^w^
This person didn’t show up on the boards until the 25th. In fact after Morto brought it up. If you coordinated with a friend obviously it’ll show a non proxy IP. If they signed up a week before or a couple days before I’d say this method would be reliable.

I showed up on the boards because I’m being accused of being an alt. I explained my history earlier I just made an account so I could explain myself I guess. I’ve had the name Bobah since I was a child and I can give you a full history in a voice chat if any one would like to. You could just ask Bobbah or anyone that I’ve spoke to on voice chat because I actually used the voice chat on that discord but don’t remember names because there’s so many different people.

Nervere · Post by **Nervere** » Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:11 pm #526081

With the linked appeal, the question of whether or not I was evading as Bobah is put to rest: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=24677.
I eagerly await a reply to this appeal from Plapatin, so that we may actually discuss this ban now.

Nervere · Post by **Nervere** » Sun Dec 01, 2019 3:24 pm #526871

It has now been more than a week without a single response from Plapatin.
Appeals are supposed to be a dialogue, not an appeal and then a single response from the banning admin. Let's get this conversation started.

Post by **Plapatin** » Wed Dec 04, 2019 10:58 am #527196

hello here's my response:
i know you're going to adminshop and post a second appeal the moment i retire so there's really no point in discussing this in a long-winded dialogue, is there?

i'd also like to point out that resolving administrative issues over discord is also explicitly against the rules, and it seems you've both tried and have done that multiple times, seeing as though you've resolved the doxing issue privately

people were leaking things to you and you were covering for them because they were "trying to inform you that one of the people you thought were your friends was saying bad things about you." i personally don't care one way or another what happens in your friend group, but that's bringing drama to the server, which falls in line with all the talk about drama stirring.

the entire incident with john gobbel/aethernaut is another example of this, you were called out for the behavior in admin-bus and you offered little care in the fact that you personally harassed a member of the community (while still being a headmin no less). people have said that it was justified because of things that happened in your friend group, but this is once again bringing in outside drama stirring to the discord.

the fact that you had a massive falling out with someone then only a day later started pointing out flaws that lead to their personal information is already damning enough. it's hard to imagine someone openly telling someone to "get out of my life" then very shortly after following that up with a reminder that people can access their personal information. this is more drama that involves you and your friends and bleeds over into administration, which is a recurring theme here.

in addition, morto also wanted to keep you banned but felt so bullied by your friend group that the only reason she overturned it and shortly resigned thereafter was because of pressure

now that that's out of the way, here's the rest of my response:
the toxic attitude on the forums was mostly related to your posts in hulkamania's headmin election thread
the "only here for entertainment" message was interpreted as "i am here to cause drama because drama is what i find entertaining"
me and the other headmins are still confident that the community is better off without you
this appeal is still denied

/tg/Station 13

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