Take Terry off Dynamic

[Shadowflame909]

Code-Base Player-Base separation was enough.

We don't need Server-Base Code-Base Player-Base separation to drive things even more up the wall.

Unless more conflict is desired, either all the servers need to convert to Dynamic. Or Dynamic needs to be removed from terry, since it's already an option in secret.

Let us leave the drama in 2016. We dont need a cat-girls boogaloo. This time it'll be the headmins of the future making constant polls to leave terry on dynamic or not.

[wesoda25]

To save you guys from having to read that I’ll leave this here:

I set Terry to 24/7 dynamic. It was meant to be for a short time, as a testing period. Terry admins kept requesting it.
The fact that it is still running dynamic is very odd. It should've been taken off by now.

it is absolutely vital that all the servers are travelling in the same direction.

Diversions lead to admin / playerbase /coderbase tension, as you are now seeing in effect.

a temporary controversy over config changes is much easier handled than leaving the issue to fester.

[Shadowflame909]

To save you from having to read that I'll leave this here.


It is of the utmost importance that we rapidly work towards addressing this problem. If left to fester, the diversion could be so great that we'll never get over it. Just like the cat-girl issue that was Once just an item.

Address it, or it'll come back to bite us!

[The Respected Man]

no

[Kangtut]

no

[Istoprocent1]

Shadowflame909, I don't wanna be the one to say this but you seem to be proposing a ton of bad ideas on the forums. Maybe try playing on yog for awhile and see how do you like that, because all the changes you are pushing for are similar "no dynamic, antags cannot do anything, sec cannot do anything, only admins can resolve IC conflicts, rounds last more than 60 minutes etc".

Dynamic is inherently the best gamemode there is, since once antags are figured out there can be other threats rather than knowing that the only danger out there is "cult" or "revs" etc.

[wesoda25]

IMO - Dynamic is good, could still get a lot better. Issue isn’t Terry always being on dynamic, its Terry being on something the other servers aren’t. So either make all servers dynamic or not terry. Or some half measure for both.

[Nervere]

I set Terry to dynamic as a temporary measure - for testing. Terry admins kept asking for it to be put on.
It was not meant to be on for 24/7. The onus is on the headmins to take it off and set it back to normal.

[Shadowflame909]

Shadowflame909, I don't wanna be the one to say this but you seem to be proposing a ton of bad ideas on the forums. Maybe try playing on yog for awhile and see how do you like that, because all the changes you are pushing for are similar "no dynamic, antags cannot do anything, sec cannot do anything, only admins can resolve IC conflicts, rounds last more than 60 minutes etc".

Dynamic is inherently the best gamemode there is, since once antags are figured out there can be other threats rather than knowing that the only danger out there is "cult" or "revs" etc.

Take it off Dynamic or Put all the servers on dynamic.

You do realize how the codebase would effectively clash within itself if coders are coding for a dynamic type setting where all the antags can appear, versus just one antag type once per round.

[Nervere]

Dynamic is chaotic as fuck, completely awful. Few opportunities for roleplay.
Dynamic needs to be taken off permanent rotation for Terry, and set as a normal gamemode with low-medium odds.

[Naloac]

Im not sure if you've played on terry or a dynamic round recently but RP still does happen on the regular. The rounds are no where near as chaotic as they started because the mode got updated to fix the bugs with it. Ive seen people complain that too much happens but I really REALLY think those people are having either selective memories or havent played on a dynamic round recently. Ive seen admins complain that its hard to interact with terry because of its dynamic mode but I also think this is wrong because I do it on the regular and Ive regularly done stupid events / full event rounds and had positive feedback on it.

Most of the complaints I see about Terry dynamic are from people who I never fuckin see on terry and just saying to remove it because ??????. I get that we are meant to be consistent between servers but when Dynamic is just secret but better I find it really really hard to see the arguments against it.

[skoglol]

The main issue with dynamic is the bagilites that come to terry to play it. They have changed the atmosphere of terry for sure.

As for players who actually play terry's wishes on perma dynamic,there was a vote not too long ago. High is better.
https://sb.atlantaned.space/polls/216

Bobbah is looking into getting us extended stats for dynamic rounds, which should give us an easier overview of what spawns etc. This should be helpful in tweaking dynamic numbers further as we go along. I would at the very least want to see a higher percentage of dynamic in secret, as the mode is genuinely good and interesting, and deserves a chance to keep growing and improving.

[oranges]

the longer you leave the servers in disaparate configurations the harder it becomes toa dmin them.

[The Respected Man]

the longer you leave the servers in disaparate configurations the harder it becomes toa dmin them.

[Naloac]

the longer you leave the servers in disaparate configurations the harder it becomes toa dmin them.

Again I really dont think this is a problem. When dynamic is just better than secret for removing alot of the *O an emagged door guess we cant have any Cultists!* I also disagree with the hard to admin them comment because I swap between bagil and terry and find Next to no difference in adminning. When dynamic is just secret but BETTER its just the same way to admin. Only this time you have to include sometimes okay maybe this guy was worried about X.

[Tarchonvaagh]

Op is right

[Istoprocent1]

Put all the servers on dynamic.

Agreed.

/thread

[Grazyn]

I played on Terry because EU and thought dynamic was fun at first, then I realized every round is either cult or rev and it's awful for long-term projects

[skoglol]

When did you play grazyn? Changes were made to fix stacking bugs, as well as reduce the frequency of round enders a month or so ago.

[Shadowflame909]

the longer you leave the servers in disaparate configurations the harder it becomes toa dmin them.

Again I really dont think this is a problem. When dynamic is just better than secret for removing alot of the *O an emagged door guess we cant have any Cultists!* I also disagree with the hard to admin them comment because I swap between bagil and terry and find Next to no difference in adminning. When dynamic is just secret but BETTER its just the same way to admin. Only this time you have to include sometimes okay maybe this guy was worried about X.

Then would you agree to all the servers being Dynamic because its a better game mode?

Somethings gotta give.

Unbalanced Coder Turmoil once the terry coders see the flaws in dynamic and start making specific game mode changes after the antag freeze ends, which then don't mesh well on the secret when these antags are the main source of conflict with no other interruptions.

Pandamonium Naloac!

Another option would be adding "Dynamic ___" versions of antags to the datum. But that would be pretty bloated, wouldn't it?

[Grazyn]

When did you play grazyn? Changes were made to fix stacking bugs, as well as reduce the frequency of round enders a month or so ago.

Yeah it was a couple months ago. Good to know it was fixed, it made rounds very predictable (cult or rev, and if nothing happens in the first 20 minutes it's nukes)

[deedubya]

As for players who actually play terry's wishes on perma dynamic,there was a vote not too long ago. High is better.
https://sb.atlantaned.space/polls/216

This poll is actually the main reason I gave up that crusade as well. I remember seeing a lot of EU players turn up on Sybil because they hated dynamic, and I felt it was pretty unfair to force a 24/7 gamemode onto what's essentially their only server. But evidently the vast majority of people that play the server like dynamic, so there isn't really a problem there.

[Naloac]

the longer you leave the servers in disaparate configurations the harder it becomes toa dmin them.

Again I really dont think this is a problem. When dynamic is just better than secret for removing alot of the *O an emagged door guess we cant have any Cultists!* I also disagree with the hard to admin them comment because I swap between bagil and terry and find Next to no difference in adminning. When dynamic is just secret but BETTER its just the same way to admin. Only this time you have to include sometimes okay maybe this guy was worried about X.

Then would you agree to all the servers being Dynamic because its a better game mode?

I would put all servers on dynamic and have it run from that. although I dont play the other servers often bar maybe bagil when terry hits lowpop. So I dont normally comment on what those servers want.(because I dont know) In my opinion alot of the dynamic hate comes from misunderstandings of how it works/newthingbad. The proper argument of the game enders being too powerful stacked together was already addressed and fixed. Its a rare event to see nukies and cult. While im pretty sure it CAN happen I havent seen it since skoglols updates.

Theres another issue of traitors running off to join the cult which is an admin policy issue that I brought up before at one point. I think traitors/ lings/bloodbros and the like shouldnt be able to WILLINGLY join the cult and must be forced. Just because its alot more fun that way.

[Grazyn]

How does antag priority works for traitors? Can you join the cult to get closer to your assassination target who is a cultist or are you forced to obey the "no team-killing" rule? Can you kill him but you have to help the cult? Or can you ignore your cultist allegiance altogether?

[Naloac]

How does antag priority works for traitors? Can you join the cult to get closer to your assassination target who is a cultist or are you forced to obey the "no team-killing" rule? Can you kill him but you have to help the cult? Or can you ignore your cultist allegiance altogether?

You have to help the cult. This was a policy thread before but its basically team antags over single antags.

[skoglol]

I personally believe we can fulfill all the server preferences with dynamic if we take the time to tweak it. Want calmer rounds on sybil and more chaos on bagil? There are per server configs for that, and you are able to adjust pretty much anything about both the game mode and the impact of the individual rulesets. Anything that is not possible to adjust in configs today (barring very specific game mode stuff) is trivial to add.

[CPTANT]

Just tweak dynamics threat values until it is where we want it to be and it makes secret obsolete.

[wesoda25]

I personally believe we can fulfill all the server preferences with dynamic if we take the time to tweak it. Want calmer rounds on sybil and more chaos on bagil? There are per server configs for that, and you are able to adjust pretty much anything about both the game mode and the impact of the individual rulesets. Anything that is not possible to adjust in configs today (barring very specific game mode stuff) is trivial to add.

I believe purposefully gearing different servers for different play types is the exact reason 24/7 dynamic is disproved of. Giving everyone the same version of dynamic is ideal I think.

[Taylork2]

When did you play grazyn? Changes were made to fix stacking bugs, as well as reduce the frequency of round enders a month or so ago.

Yeah it was a couple months ago. Good to know it was fixed, it made rounds very predictable (cult or rev, and if nothing happens in the first 20 minutes it's nukes)

Yeah it's been dramatically changed since then, in fact oftentimes(like 1/5 rounds) the only Antags are Blood Brothers(who usually barely antag, usually killing 1/2 people for each set) since some of the admins like setting Blood Brothers to 45 Threat and it likes rolling around 45-60 threat and it occasionally doesn't like spending the remaining threat.
I personally haven't seen it roll a mixed gamemode like Cult+Wizard or Cult+Revs in well over a week and getting cult/revs happens about as often as on Bagil/Sybil.

I personally believe we can fulfill all the server preferences with dynamic if we take the time to tweak it. Want calmer rounds on sybil and more chaos on bagil? There are per server configs for that, and you are able to adjust pretty much anything about both the game mode and the impact of the individual rulesets. Anything that is not possible to adjust in configs today (barring very specific game mode stuff) is trivial to add.

I believe purposefully gearing different servers for different play types is the exact reason 24/7 dynamic is disproved of. Giving everyone the same version of dynamic is ideal I think.

I don't think the exact same version of Dynamic is needed and some variance would be nice, even if it's just for a chaotic round with all the threat costs being lowered.
But it should be comparable, like if normal Traitor threat is 20 on one server, it shouldn't be 40+ on another, or if Blood Bros is 45, it shouldn't be 15 usually for another.

[Grazyn]

I'd just add dynamic to secret on all servers and put Terry on regular rotation as well. Having it in secret spices things up while still keeping traditional single antag-type modes.

[Taylork2]

I'd just add dynamic to secret on all servers and put Terry on regular rotation as well. Having it in secret spices things up while still keeping traditional single antag-type modes.

Personally I disagree, since you can occasionally on high pop get team lings/traitors and nuke ops, but the Tots/lings decide to help the Crew against the Cult/Nuke Ops invading the station. It really spices up the Monotony of x group=valid when the Lings or ToTs are helping you out, but it's uncommon since Terrymins and Coderbus has Dynamic on such a short leash. Outside of Highpop (50+) players you pretty much only get regular rounds and even in highpop it's uncommon you'll get something like that, far more likely you'll get Lings + Blood bros + 1/2 tots.

[Tarchonvaagh]

>headmins: they put Terry off dynamic
>terrymins: time to start a vote about dynamic at the beginning of every round

[Grazyn]

I'd just add dynamic to secret on all servers and put Terry on regular rotation as well. Having it in secret spices things up while still keeping traditional single antag-type modes.

Personally I disagree, since you can occasionally on high pop get team lings/traitors and nuke ops, but the Tots/lings decide to help the Crew against the Cult/Nuke Ops invading the station. It really spices up the Monotony of x group=valid when the Lings or ToTs are helping you out, but it's uncommon since Terrymins and Coderbus has Dynamic on such a short leash. Outside of Highpop (50+) players you pretty much only get regular rounds and even in highpop it's uncommon you'll get something like that, far more likely you'll get Lings + Blood bros + 1/2 tots.

Yeah but that was necessary because it was the only mode and round enders got old pretty fast, but once it's on rotation they could tweak it to be like it was before.

[oranges]

it is not sufficiently smart enough to be any better than the RNG gamemode roll at the start of the round.

I don't believe it adds any value at all.

[Takov]

Code-Base Player-Base separation was enough.

We don't need Server-Base Code-Base Player-Base separation to drive things even more up the wall.

Unless more conflict is desired, either all the servers need to convert to Dynamic. Or Dynamic needs to be removed from terry, since it's already an option in secret.

Let us leave the drama in 2016. We dont need a cat-girls boogaloo. This time it'll be the headmins of the future making constant polls to leave terry on dynamic or not.

Fuck off with your false dichotomy, you don't even play on Terry.
What fucking "more conflict"? It's been fine for months and every vote in-game to play on Dynamic that I've seen has passed, I daresay the vast majority of players like it.

Speaking of divide, Hulk literally phoneposting on Discord and ordering Chosen not to do votes for Dynamic is fucking retarded. I can't recall ever seeing Hulk on Terry in fact, or doing much of anything to be honest. The real divide is between distant, unaccountable coders with awful ideas (Cobby, Oranges, Ninja) plus armchair admemes, and the regular players.

it is not sufficiently smart enough to be any better than the RNG gamemode roll at the start of the round.

I don't believe it adds any value at all.

The people who actually play by and large disagree with you, as do I. Not that you even play on Terry, so what the fuck do you care?

[CPTANT]

I'd just add dynamic to secret on all servers and put Terry on regular rotation as well. Having it in secret spices things up while still keeping traditional single antag-type modes.

Just have it on dynamic and alter between low and high threat.

[Shadowflame909]

The people who actually play by and large disagree with you, as do I. Not that you even play on Terry, so what the fuck do you care?

All or Nothing. We don't need two versions of the same antag. Except one can be converted by a cult and harpen upon a wizard's spellbook. While the other is there to rock the show entirely on his own.

[Takov]

The people who actually play by and large disagree with you, as do I. Not that you even play on Terry, so what the fuck do you care?

All or Nothing. We don't need two versions of the same antag. Except one can be converted by a cult and harpen upon a wizard's spellbook. While the other is there to rock the show entirely on his own.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemm
If you mean shit like a different antag getting converted that's rare enough that's it isn't a concern even on Dynamic, which you'd know if you actually played. It's almost always just funny actually.
And what the fuck are you even talking about? It "isn't two versions of the same antag" (whatever that possibly means) and an actual Wizard's Spellbook is bound to the person that uses it. Nobody else can use it. How do you not know this?
(Specifically it's bound it to their "mind" in code terms iirc)

[Shadowflame909]

The people who actually play by and large disagree with you, as do I. Not that you even play on Terry, so what the fuck do you care?

All or Nothing. We don't need two versions of the same antag. Except one can be converted by a cult and harpen upon a wizard's spellbook. While the other is there to rock the show entirely on his own.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemm
If you mean shit like a different antag getting converted that's rare enough that's it isn't a concern even on Dynamic, which you'd know if you actually played. It's almost always just funny actually.
And what the fuck are you even talking about? It "isn't two versions of the same antag" (whatever that possibly means) and an actual Wizard's Spellbook is bound to the person that uses it. Nobody else can use it. How do you not know this?
(Specifically it's bound it to their "mind" in code terms iirc)

Yeah okay, but it's not like a wizard has never been killed and looted.

Dynamic Antag and Normal Antag are two different types of beast. Advocating for the removal of dynamic as a default is just one option. All the servers can convert.

But somethings gotta give, because we don't need as I've said Two Main-Style of the same antag. Coders going on terry, seeing the faults in dynamic and retuning the antags to be weaker entirely. Which then makes them no longer hold up in their own mode, On the secret playstyle all the other servers default on.

That's what I mean by two types of antags.

[Takov]

The people who actually play by and large disagree with you, as do I. Not that you even play on Terry, so what the fuck do you care?

All or Nothing. We don't need two versions of the same antag. Except one can be converted by a cult and harpen upon a wizard's spellbook. While the other is there to rock the show entirely on his own.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemm
If you mean shit like a different antag getting converted that's rare enough that's it isn't a concern even on Dynamic, which you'd know if you actually played. It's almost always just funny actually.
And what the fuck are you even talking about? It "isn't two versions of the same antag" (whatever that possibly means) and an actual Wizard's Spellbook is bound to the person that uses it. Nobody else can use it. How do you not know this?
(Specifically it's bound it to their "mind" in code terms iirc)

Yeah okay, but it's not like a wizard has never been killed and looted.

Dynamic Antag and Normal Antag are two different types of beast. Advocating for the removal of dynamic as a default is just one option. All the servers can convert.

But somethings gotta give, because we don't need as I've said Two Main-Style of the same antag. Coders going on terry, seeing the faults in dynamic and retuning the antags to be weaker entirely. Which then makes them no longer hold up in their own mode, On the secret playstyle all the other servers default on.

That's what I mean by two types of antags.

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF THEY'RE DEAD, PEOPLE CAN'T GET SPELLS FROM THEIR SPELLBOOK AFTER THEY HAVE OPENED THE SPELL CHOICE MENU. THIS IS BASIC FUCKING KNOWLEDGE. Holy shit how do you not know this?

Antags are still frozen, so your claim about "Coders going on terry, seeing the faults in dynamic and retuning the antags to be weaker" is pure and utter bullshit. Coders don't even go on Terry to begin with anyway, and that situation hasn't happened even when antags weren't frozen. You are delusional.

[Shadowflame909]

What happens to the items dead wizards hold???

You can disagree Takov. But Dynamic Antags and Normal Antags play under two very different sets of gameplay. One where they're the villain to the stations normality, and the other where they're treated as a replaceable minion.

[Takov]

What happens to the items dead wizards hold???

You can disagree Takov. But Dynamic Antags and Normal Antags play under two very different sets of gameplay. One where they're the villain to the stations normality, and the other where they're treated as a replaceable minion.

I didn't argue that they aren't two different gameplay sets, I was pointing out that your phrasing was fucking incomprehensible and nonsensical. Your argument now boils down to "I don't like it" when you don't even fucking play on Terry yet you act if this is some sort of crisis.

[Taylork2]

What happens to the items dead wizards hold???

You can disagree Takov. But Dynamic Antags and Normal Antags play under two very different sets of gameplay. One where they're the villain to the stations normality, and the other where they're treated as a replaceable minion.

What happens when a wizard uses summon magic five times and just stays on the wizard ship until round end?
Who cares, crew is going to get items that can disrupt the "balance" of a round.
What happens when the crew gets an uplink with 60TC on it from a Contractor? It's going to disrupt the balance a bit.

I don't consider it a problem, wizard basically is hardly touched by the coding community in terms of new features/major balance changes and I don't think Dynamic is going to change whether wizard gets updated or not.

[Farquaar]

It doesn’t matter that they don’t play on Terry, Takov, because it affects the direction of the entire codebase. Unless of course you want every Terry player to give a disclaimer that their opinions should be disregarded every time they give feedback on game/antag balance.

[wesoda25]

It doesn’t matter that they don’t play on Terry, Takov, because it affects the direction of the entire codebase. Unless of course you want every Terry player to give a disclaimer that their opinions should be disregarded every time they give feedback on game/antag balance.

Implying they aren’t already ; )