New antagonist policy - repealed

[Amelius]

Bottom post of the previous page:

If this is a thing we definitely need different objectives. Steal > do the same job you've autistically done all day waiting for antag > 3 hour rounds while waiting for greentext = no fun for anyone.

Indeed, I posit that we need difficult objectives. If this is to be the way we are headed, I'd at least rather that greentext is something to strive for, but very difficult (one greentexter- per round) to accomplish, so you aren't bored all the time. Even if this isn't the direction we're headed (and I hope not, as I do not see one positive comment on this matter here), we may as well have harder objectives anyway.

Objectives that tell you to kill certain people in certain manners may be interesting. Problem is in the case that they die before you can get to them, so I'd say that if they die to anyone not 'you', then it's considered a success anyway.

Edit:

Scaredofshadows wants everyone to know that the intention of this policy is to "leniently allow people to be antags but fucking antag ban the notorious shitheads and unrepentant assholes trying to dick everyone over".

He's having posting issues and can't respond as quickly as he'd like to.

That's too fine-lined for me. That just means 'admins will antagban whoever they want depending on their mood'. Hell, the antagonist's whole JOB is to fuck everyone over, and, if they ARE notorious shitheads and unrepetentant assholes that immediately try to massacre the entire crew, you'd think that they'd be stopped quite quickly, given that they'd have a fully-stocked security department to handle them.

Fix the issues with antag rolls being done after job rolls, and the problem will sort itself out ingame anyway, by having better and more players sign up for security at roundstart, and thus making this behaviour more difficult to accomplish.

Terrible policy.

[Pybro]

What about Cult? Sac your target then do nothing for thirty minutes? What about constructs? The only way to do a successful construct cult is by murderbonering.

Wizards? Staff of Change'd people? The entire point of Summon Guns is to make people murderboner each other. Raise the number of survivors made so more people do so? Because let's be frank, there is going to be no RP on a Wizard round. And what about Wizard Statues, who can ONLY murder?

Blob?

Xenos?

Changelings? One of their objectives that they ALWAYS have is "Kill x number of people".

I've never actually played Gang, so yeah. I assume this will interfere however.

Rev? Which is basically "murderboner: The game mode". Again, no RP happening here.

/tg/station rounds do not last as long as, say, Bay rounds. A typical /tg/station round lasts maybe an hour. There is not enough time to develop "meaningful" and "Deep" role play. Creative killing is entirely possible however. But limiting how many people you can kill does not do that. Instead of forcing people to kill meaningfully, they'll just do whatever the latest equivalent of parapen+C4 is, and we all remember what that was like: Traitor kills his target in the first five minutes of the round then does nothing for the next thirty before going braindead because NOTHING IS GOING ON. All that will happen is that instead of LE SO CLEVER traitors doing that, it will be every traitor because no one will want to get BWOINK'd for every. Single. Kill. "Why did you kill the CMO?", "Did you NEED to kill that engineer?", "Despite the fact that you've sold out all of your friends for money, it is against your conscience to murder any coworker except for a single specific one. Bannu!", and so on and so forth.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the same old nosplip+dual esword is fun for anyone. But a blanket "No killing anyone but your target" ban is silly. If we want people to RP more, why not give them an incentive? The Randomized Non-Specific Non-Antagonist objectives idea ("Start a mariachi band!", "Become a world champion boxer!", "Pants the clown!") works. If we want to encourage Creative Killing, let's add in more fun uses of traitor items? The Camera Bug is an example of an awesome idea that's never used because there's little actual use for it, for example. Or the Toxic Health Analyzer. Fun, but never used.

[AdenAbrafo]

Lots of words

Cult - You're supposed to do your objectives and get out. Nothing says you can't call the shuttle. It isn't murderboning with constructs if you turn them into constructs.
Wizards - Wizards are supposed to fight the entire crew. Staff of change'd people are fair game as they are creatures, summon guns is to create chaos but not cause mass murder, wizard statues revert and are probably fair game.
Blob - Come on now.
Xenos - Some clarification on this would be appreciated, I'm assuming that it isn't okay to go around just killing and not infecting people.
Revolution - Revolution is not 'murderboner: the game mode.' It's always been considered bad form to go on killing sprees against nonrevs as a rev. I'm also fairly sure it can warrant a ban.

This policy isn't to try to force us into a baystation atmosphere of 'deep enrichening roleplay,' nor is it going to end up with every antag getting messaged when he kills a bystander. It is to create interesting situations that go beyond 'oh hey that dude has every gun and is shooting people' or 'oh hey lots of fire.'

[cedarbridge]

Rev? Which is basically "murderboner: The game mode". Again, no RP happening here.

If you're murderboning non-rev, non-head, non-sec as a rev, you're part of the problem.

[paprika]

Rev has always been team deathmatch, if anyone says otherwise they're fucking:
1) new
2) retarded
3) trying to not get rev axed because they like team deathmatch

[mrpain]

We've already had this discussion and it was shot down: https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=1508

Why you've decided to do it now is beyond me.

[oranges]

GOODBYE ROB UST

[walket]

I hate this policy, but there are two bigger issues in play here.

1. This policy is ALREADY not being applied as described in the post. SoS described the policy as:

So what constitutes unwanted behavior as an antagonist? The test I intend to use will be 'is this player trying to ruin the round for other players instead of trying to accomplish their objectives?'. The answer to this question for most of the people trying to argue about this lately is 'yes'. We've fallen a long way as a server and devolved into stupid, mindless griefing which was previously allowed under the rules, but will no longer be tolerated

But only a couple rounds ago, SoS PERSONALLY warned an antag for throwing poly acid, lube, and plasma grenades on the escape shuttle, saying it fell under this policy. When I read his part above, I think of one person in a spacesuit using an adrenal implant taking people out into space to kill them and recalling the shuttle until the whole station is dead. I still think they should be allowed to do this, but I understand how it wouldn't be fun, especially if they recall.

The problem is the antag in the last round didn't recall the shuttle, they just threw a grenade. Was it directly related to their objectives? No. But was it "mindless griefing?" Not at all. It was actually pretty funny (not to mention well done). However, it now is not condoned under this policy.

So already the policy is shifting from "mindless griefing and going out of your way to kill people" to just killing a lot of people. This is a serious issue. If you are going to set a policy, make it clear and enforce it in the way you present it.

So already a grey area becomes even more unclear. An "I'll know it when I see it" approach is a horrible way to decide when to issue out permabans.

2. There have been a ton of recent changes that the playerbase does not approve of or outright disagrees with. Why even bother asking our opinions if you are going to force changes like this? If you want player input follow it. Or if you want to run the server your way, force it your way and tell us to piss off when we complain. Don't try to go in between because it is a waste of everyone's time and only creates unrealistic expectations. There have been other changes recently with certain sprites and game mechanics being changed despite a massive outcry against such changes. If you are going to put polls up on topics, listen to them. Don't ask for our opinion if you are just going to force a change. It seems to me that a lot of things that weren't broken are being fixed and its creating a lot of new problems.

SoS it is your server. It is your decision. But people take their spessmens very seriously. So be prepared for a lot of criticism.

[danno]

this is dumb and it's lead to bad things
i get that it's sos' server but maybe these kinds of things can be discussed with the community, who it affects, first..?

[Septavius]

how am i supposed to fight sec as a rev???

[youngbuckliontiger]

GOODBYE ROB UST

RIP Rob Ust
He will be remembered...

[RogerWilco]

hahaha holy shit
what are we now, baystation?

I fucking told you guys this was gonna happen.
I told you about the h-u-g-b-o-x man
I warned you, dog.

[Septavius]

hahaha holy shit
what are we now, baystation?

I fucking told you guys this was gonna happen.
I told you about the h-u-g-b-o-x man
I warned you, dog.

hold me.

[cedarbridge]

how am i supposed to fight sec as a rev???

Probably by fighting sec and not murdering everyone else

[Septavius]

how am i supposed to fight sec as a rev???

Probably by fighting sec and not murdering everyone else

you know well that's not possible.

[ShizCalev]

Banning people from being an antagonist role for killing tons of people is really silly. The point of an antagonist is to break the monotony of the game. If they go about killing people, then it's up to the crew to stop them however necessary. I think the only case that I could see this being an acceptable policy is if someone is running around with nothing but stun peoples and killing everybody one by one in the slowest possible fashion after stunning them. If it stays fun, and they actually pose a challenge that would interest the crew, then they should be free to kill as many people as they feel like.


SoS, please remove this policy. I've been playing on this server since it was brought up, and this is by far one of the most extreme changes that could be made to it. This isn't Bay, this is TG. We shouldn't implement such extreme policies when there is a community vote that clearly favored it not be put in place. This is one of those few things that shouldn't be subjected to an owner level veto after being struck down by the community, simply because it is so influential to the server's community.

[AdenAbrafo]

It should be noted that currently the poll in the feedback forums is 21 in favor and 17 against.

[Stickymayhem]

People have seriously spoiled antag recently. There are a few very active players who play only to remove other people from the round. It's a lot of fun but ultimately is incredibly shitty. This is not a middleground, it's playing the game mechanically with no regard for any kind of roleplaying whatsoever, and that is something to avoid.

I used to murderbone a lot too. It quickly gets to a point where success is more people killed rather than an interesting round. Antags need to become creative again, as killing everyone over and over is just a lazy display of skill in a 2D game of spessmans that has so much more potential.

Do something interesting instead of something necessarily successful. The murderbone problem is indicative of a wider play2win attitude that has gone unconstrained recently. It's a good step to do it. And if the policy needs to be harsher than necessary for a while to kick the idea into certain people's heads then that may prove better in the long run.

[Skorvold]

The majority of this rule is left up to admin decision anyway. The rule is in place to prevent shitty hulk lube esword tator adrenaline implant bullshit from happening.

your tears are so fucking deliciously salty

[MisterPerson]

But only a couple rounds ago, SoS PERSONALLY warned an antag for throwing poly acid, lube, and plasma grenades on the escape shuttle, saying it fell under this policy. When I read his part above, I think of one person in a spacesuit using an adrenal implant taking people out into space to kill them and recalling the shuttle until the whole station is dead. I still think they should be allowed to do this, but I understand how it wouldn't be fun, especially if they recall.

The problem is the antag in the last round didn't recall the shuttle, they just threw a grenade. Was it directly related to their objectives? No. But was it "mindless griefing?"

Yes. It was. Literally the only reason the grenade was tosses was to kill as many people as possible for no reason. There was no thought put into the act (mindless) of ruining people's rounds (griefing). By definition, mindless griefing.

[Steelpoint]

I'm not against any reasonable policy, I just don't want this policy to be too ambiguous. While I know admins don't like having very defined rules to avoid toe liners, I still dislike the idea of having a rule set that governs the actions of antagonists yet said ruleset is ambigious.

Essentially I don't want people who play as a antagonist to get the same feeling someone playing as security does, worrying about getting banned for going over a line they don't know where its drawn.

[Grazyn]

So is it allowed to bomb/subvert the AI/singu beacon if you have a steal objective?

Also the survivor message should be fixed to accomodate the policy.

[Kangaraptor]

My only question is this:

Does the new policy cover things like releasing the singularity, plasmafires or bombings?

I can understand not wanting to allow people who do nothing but spacelube, ebow and esword to play antag, but I'm curious as to where the line stands. Making the grand sabotage trifecta essentially against the rules would be crummy, so here's hoping it doesn't fall under the 'murderboner' policy, but yeah.

[woross]

Welcome to BayStation 13.

Only with worse code.

Bull to the shit to the crap to the shit, SoS.

[Nevis]

me breaths in.
me breaths out.

This was once a joke update on april fools pointing and laughing at how heavily RP enforced Baystation was. To any who weren't there, it forced people to use emotes to breath, or face suffocation.

And look where we are now...

It's a slippery slope it seems. I stopped playing /tg/ mainly once the silly REALISM updates started rolling in despite community outcry. I check in every month or so to see if it's any better, and sadly I have to say this new policy is an embarrassment and a kick in the face to what /tg/ once was a couple years ago.

/tg/ vs. Bay as I remembered it used to be:


Now I can't even use that image for anything except EVE online because /tg/ has become the very thing it laughed and made a mockery of in years past.

Bonus content from ye olde times: http://i.imgur.com/mj94OaO.png

[Steelpoint]

So wait, did SoS actually remove Wizard from the rotation?

That seems like a massive overreaction.

[woross]

So wait, did SoS actually remove Wizard from the rotation?

That seems like a massive overreaction.

Wait WHAT he did?!

[Amelius]

So wait, did SoS actually remove Wizard from the rotation?

That seems like a massive overreaction.

If he did, that solidifies the thought that he is doing this solely as a knee-jerk reaction to those three consecutive summon guns/magic rounds a day or so ago. Quite literally butthurt at the highest level.

It also points out that he isn't thinking this through rationally, calmly, or even pondering the possible drawbacks of implementation of this policy.

[Jimthebob123]

Wizard has actually been removed from secret on sybil.

[Skasi]

Where can I upvote this?!

[Wyzack]

I really think SoS needs to comment on the existence of summon guns. It literally only exists to make the crew attack and kill eachother. Saying that it can cause mayhem without murder is bullshit, because no one is going to shoot at anyone when they know that admins will be watching with the banhammer. It is literally completely useless. I hate being murderboned as much as the next guy but it happens. I also rarely ever play antag, and i never murderbone, and i still really think this policy is a huge step in the wrong direction. I also probably lack adequate perspective on the issue, as i mostly play on server2, but we get murderboners there too. And due to the lower population they are usually far more successful. You just wait till the next round.

[AnonymousNow]

RAMBLING AHEAD, HOLD ON TO YOUR BUTTS.

After putting up with murderboner rounds for literally years, and the kind of antagonists who kill everything, all the time, in the same sort of dead-eyed zombie way with whatever they have available when they can get away with it, and log when they can't, I for one am glad to see this policy come into effect.

The only issues are:

- The fact that certain antagonists are designed around murderboners. Namely, nuke ops, some malfunctioning AIs (& subverted cyborgs), some wizards, some xenomorphs, some cult constructs, some deathsquads etc. It makes sense for them to continue this playstyle, as has been addressed, but I'd like to see more crafty, creative schemes.

- The fact that some means of slaughtering the station are pretty damn cool and well thought-out. If you're leaking burning plasma into every environment, cleaving the station in two with the singularity or making a bomb so powerful it wipes the fore wing clean off the map, for example, that's to be applauded.

- How this is going to be enforced. It'll be difficult, but the instances need to be judged by intent, not just circumstance - sometimes the difference between acceptable and unacceptable isn't as clear-cut as seeing whether or not they have an Escape Alone objective.

Sometimes, it makes sense for a survivor to snap and shoot at anything that moves - I'd like to see more survivors snarling from behind the equivalent of makeshift upended table forts, but sometimes it feels like the only way to survive is to match the aggression of other people with guns. Summon spells should sow fear, mistrust and hatred amongst the crew, not instantly turn it into Battle Royale with no ramp-up - but sometimes it can and will turn into that sort of situation naturally. And if you're playing a role that's all about inclusion (revolutionary) and yet you hunt new joiners in arrivals, you need to feel the hammer drop. But by all means, if you have "Steal a pair of magboots and escape alive", throw the station some curveballs - make it interesting, for fuck's sake. Sabotage! Intrigue! Hell, rogue/malf AIs are kinda forced to mix up the ways they kill people, as shocked and bolted doors just won't cut it anymore.

People know me as a massive bleeding heart faggot oh my god, so when I say "we gotta murderbone sometime" then you know it's important. But only sometimes, mang.

I think what's making me happiest about this change is that we're trimming the fat. I get the feeling that this policy isn't here to permanently put an end to mass death ingame, but to target the kind of shitters who are, repeatedly and unashamedly, out specifically to ruin other peoples' rounds (because they know that their rehashed round approaches bore people). Hopefully they'll either clean up their act and get creative with their antagonism, or they'll jump ship to Goon, taking the people whining about hugboxes with them.

This new policy could actually improve the playerbase after its tumble over the course of the past couple of years. Whereas we were always supposed to be halfway between Baystation and Goonstation, we have, for a considerable amount of time, been tonguing the underside of Goon instead.

tl;dr - 8/10 policy; let people whine and leave 'cos they're probably the reason why we have it in the first place; it's surely going to take intent into account; and I imagine that, yes, you'll still be able to bomb, plasmaflood and singulo etc. the station, but for the love of god, do something interesting and not just antisocial.

[Kel]

So, what the fuck are you suppost to do during a murderbone objective (prevent any organics from escaping on the shuttle, escape alone)?
Are you expecting them to just sneak on the shuttle and emag it and cross their fingers nobody got on from that fucking massive group of people who always gather at escape?
Trust me, I see it all the time, atleast 20 people ALWAYS make it on and just lynch your ass for trying to be cheeky.

The hardest objective just got harder.

[Grazyn]

The new policy pretty much breaks the summon spells (which ironically were added because wizard rounds too often turned into a murderboning party of einath+MM), so it makes sense to remove wizard from the rotation until it's fixed (note: it can't be fixed because wizard will always be at risk of murderboning, and the summon spell is only useful to the wizard if survivors are allowed to sow chaos)

[AnonymousNow]

So, what the fuck are you suppost to do during a murderbone objective (prevent any organics from escaping on the shuttle, escape alone)?

You kill them.

[Pybro]

Did you REALLY need to kill that guy?
>He was trying to get on the shuttle
You could have ebow+cuffed him and tossed him out. Bannu.

Poll in feedback is 41 no 24 yes.

[Wyzack]

Can our elected headmin weigh in? This is a pretty big deal

[MAGiC]

What's even the point? Antagonists are supposed to be antagonistic, how they do that is up to them, not your autistic baystation definition. When you start trying to tell players how to have fun, you've lost as an admin.

[walket]

Can our elected headmin weigh in? This is a pretty big deal

I don't think headmin opinion matters at this point.

But only a couple rounds ago, SoS PERSONALLY warned an antag for throwing poly acid, lube, and plasma grenades on the escape shuttle, saying it fell under this policy. When I read his part above, I think of one person in a spacesuit using an adrenal implant taking people out into space to kill them and recalling the shuttle until the whole station is dead. I still think they should be allowed to do this, but I understand how it wouldn't be fun, especially if they recall.

The problem is the antag in the last round didn't recall the shuttle, they just threw a grenade. Was it directly related to their objectives? No. But was it "mindless griefing?"

Yes. It was. Literally the only reason the grenade was tosses was to kill as many people as possible for no reason. There was no thought put into the act (mindless) of ruining people's rounds (griefing). By definition, mindless griefing.

No one's round was ruined, it was three minutes from a new round. So antags now can only accomplish their objectives and smoke in maint. until the station gets bored and calls the shuttle? That is what I do because I like greentexting and I'm not robust, but the idea of being forced to do this is disgusting. And the grenade took a lot of time and effort and was well placed. Actually there seemed to be a lot of thought put into it and WHEN it was thrown. Just like I can appreciate bombers who run it as a gimmic (Give me Ian or I blow up another part of the station!) But this policy kills that and has taken the fun out of being an antag.

Oh and just to add this insightful comment from singulo:

Are you saying that we expect our playerbase to be so immature that they can't deal with being killed just a few minutes from round end by an antag?

[paprika]

I'm sick of being a toilet for the rest of the servers' rejects that get banned for shitty behavior that we don't ban for, like murderboning every time you get traitor to get an arbitrary killcount. It's ridiculous.

[Ikarrus]

I was honestly a bit confused when SoS first announced this new policy to us. The terms were vague and he wasn't willing to elaborate at the time.

From what I could gather from further discussion over time, this policy was only meant to deal with the worst offenders. People who go the extra mile to kill as many people as possible round after round.

Frok my perspective, and from what I understand, this policy is just an extention of rule one. It's not meant to be a radical change at all, but merely trying to clarify where that rule 1 line actually laid. It could have spent more time in draft and allowed us time to avoid the horrible miscommunication we have now.


Tldr; I want to stress that this policy is only targetted towards a very few worst offenders. Most players playstyles will be unaffected by this. This does not explicitly ban antag murders, random or not, it vans only excessive murderboners by antagonists who try to go for an imagined "high score of kills".

[Pybro]

I'm sick of being a toilet for the rest of the servers' rejects that get banned for shitty behavior that we don't ban for, like murderboning every time you get traitor to get an arbitrary killcount. It's ridiculous.

Like who, precisely?

[Grazyn]

I was honestly a bit confused when SoS first announced this new policy to us. The terms were vague and he wasn't willing to elaborate at the time.

From what I could gather from further discussion over time, this policy was only meant to deal with the worst offenders. People who go the extra mile to kill as many people as possible round after round.

Frok my perspective, and from what I understand, this policy is just an extention of rule one. It's not meant to be a radical change at all, but merely trying to clarify where that rule 1 line actually laid. It could have spent more time in draft and allowed us time to avoid the horrible miscommunication we have now.


Tldr; I want to stress that this policy is only targetted towards a very few worst offenders. Most players playstyles will be unaffected by this. This does not explicitly ban antag murders, random or not, it vans only excessive murderboners by antagonists who try to go for an imagined "high score of kills".

Yes but

This is merely the first of a multitude of clarifications that will likely be necessary.

it doesn't look like it's just some kind of rule 1 extension.

and don't forget wizard being removed from rotation. This looks like some serious server policy change. It's understandable that players are worried that antag playstyle may be hindered by the same "I wonder if I'll get bwoinked for this" mentality that afflicts security.

[Ikarrus]

Wizard was removed until coderbus can give us a config option to disable summon survivors.

Which were always terrible imo.

[Stickymayhem]

I'm sick of being a toilet for the rest of the servers' rejects that get banned for shitty behavior that we don't ban for, like murderboning every time you get traitor to get an arbitrary killcount. It's ridiculous.

Like who, precisely?

People like how I used to be with the magboot murderbones. A few of the vocal people in this thread are those that the policy was aimed at.

Basically spending every round going for kills and nothing else, using antag as an excuse to remove people from the round to rack up kills. It's a plain shitty way to play and behave as a person.

[Sum Ting Wong]

This is disappointing. Part of my enjoyment as antagonist came from creating station-wide catastrophes and such. Some things like bombs, kudzu, summon guns etc. are now going to be looked at with unneeded scrutiny or just left unused out of fear of an antagonist ban. Many who enjoy the frantic pace of revolutionary rounds will cop a ban over vague lines drawn in the sand.

I understand what you're trying to do SoS but we really need to hash this out a bit more.

[walket]

Tldr; I want to stress that this policy is only targetted towards a very few worst offenders. Most players playstyles will be unaffected by this. This does not explicitly ban antag murders, random or not, it vans only excessive murderboners by antagonists who try to go for an imagined "high score of kills".

Ikarrus, I this is what I thought it would be. I didn't like it but it was tolerable. But then a few rounds after it is instated, SoS personally warned someone for throwing a grenade on the escape shuttle. That wasn't going the extra mile to kill people. The guy didn't recall the shuttle ten million times or try to rack up a body count. But here he was, getting warned under this new policy by the admin who created it.

So how is this policy going to be enforced? And don't try to reassure people that its "just a couple of people" when SoS warns someone who has never murderbonered before and isn't a "classic offender" under this new policy.

[Ikarrus]

I'm as confused as you are, then.

[Alex Crimson]

I was honestly a bit confused when SoS first announced this new policy to us. The terms were vague and he wasn't willing to elaborate at the time.

From what I could gather from further discussion over time, this policy was only meant to deal with the worst offenders. People who go the extra mile to kill as many people as possible round after round.

From my perspective, and from what I understand, this policy is just an extension of rule one. It's not meant to be a radical change at all, but merely trying to clarify where that rule 1 line actually laid. It could have spent more time in draft and allowed us time to avoid the horrible miscommunication we have now.


Tldr; I want to stress that this policy is only targeted towards a very few worst offenders. Most players playstyles will be unaffected by this. This does not explicitly ban antag murders, random or not, it vans only excessive murderboners by antagonists who try to go for an imagined "high score of kills".

Can you be any more vague? Seems more like the headmins are trying to cover for SoS and his random policy creation. All this policy will do is enforce SoS when he decides to log onto the server and ban antag who are murderboning, which he has done more than once. If the policy is targeted at a few players who murderbone, deal with them, dont enact policies that the community has been opposed to(source: the two polls that were made this year when SoS wanted to stop murderboning).

Murderboning is fine. Its part of the experience. People who kill the station and keep recalling the shuttle, those guys are assholes and should be banned, i agree, but admins had the power the ban those kinda of players before this policy was created. This policy clearly isnt limited to just those people.

[Ikarrus]

Can you be any more vague? Seems more like the headmins are trying to cover for SoS and his random policy creation. All this policy will do is enforce SoS when he decides to log onto the server and ban antag who are murderboning, which he has done more than once. If the policy is targeted at a few players who murderbone, deal with them, dont enact policies that the community has been opposed to(source: the two polls that were made this year when SoS wanted to stop murderboning).

Murderboning is fine. Its part of the experience. People who kill the station and keep recalling the shuttle, those guys are assholes and should be banned, i agree, but admins had the power the ban those kinda of players before this policy was created. This policy clearly isnt limited to just those people.

I completely agree with you, but this policy is beyond my influence.

[AnonymousNow]

Wizard was removed until coderbus can give us a config option to disable summon survivors.

Which were always terrible imo.

I like summon rounds, though. It's just that I prefer the mistrust and the arguments and the escalation to gunfire rather than the immediate stone-faced boning.