Sam Marlowe and Max Powers: Shitcurity

[Nitrousoxide]

Your byond account: Nitro2985
Your character name: Engineering Cyborg-631
Their character name: Sam Marlowe and Max Powers
Their byond account(optional, but useful if you can provide it): Dont' know
Server and time: Sybil, around 11:20 PM Eastern

Logs and/or screenshots:

Code: Select all

Robotic Talk, Security Cyborg-719 states, "It can be used to cause harm AI."
Robotic Talk, Surprise.exe states, "That's a odd."
[Common] Roman Greenawalt exclaims, "Security to Research!"
[Common] Sam Marlowe says, "I just told them the deal."
Robotic Talk, Default Cyborg-631 states, "I will disassemble it just to be safe"
[Common] Max Powers asks, "AI, door?"
[Common] Sam Marlowe says, "It wasn't me Patterson"
[Common] Sam Marlowe says, "Please"
Wry Terror has hit the reinforced window with the telescopic baton.
Wry Terror has hit the reinforced window with the telescopic baton.
Wry Terror has hit the reinforced window with the telescopic baton.
Wry Terror has hit the reinforced window with the telescopic baton.
[Common] Surprise.exe states, "Joseph Joestar has signed up as Scientist."
[Common] Naomi Turner exclaims, "Hey there, captain here! First one to bring a red pen to HoP office gets all access!"
[Common] Naomi Turner says, "That is definately not me."
[Common] Shirley Temple says, "Rob Ust took off running with a stunned officer."
[Common] Luke Cox says, "AI, open disposal access"
Wry Terror has hit the reinforced window with the wrench.
Robotic Talk, Security Cyborg-719 queries, "What do we do of the Khornites crusade the cult to death?"
Wry Terror has hit the reinforced window with the pocket crowbar.
--- Motion alarm detected in Armory!
[Common] Zane Vanleer says, "Don't trust rafig and Rob Ust."
Wry Terror has hit the reinforced window with the pocket crowbar.
[Common] Meloshevik Rafigdoost says, "ROB UST"
[Common] Meloshevik Rafigdoost says, "CULTIST"
Sam Marlowe says, "Borg."
[Common] Surprise.exe states, "Tony Davis has signed up as Assistant."
[Common] Zane Vanleer says, "What did I say."
[Common] Surprise.exe states, "I cannot see disposal maint."
Engineering Cyborg-631 states, "dangerous chair disassembled"
Sam Marlowe says, "Do not ever touch our stuff."
Sam Marlowe says, "Ever."
[Common] Zane Vanleer asks, "Melo, are you alright?"
[Common] Luke Cox says, "Somebody please open disposal access"
Sam Marlowe says, "That's an order."
Padre Gigante says, "Do we have any spare tasers"
Engineering Cyborg-631 states, "that chair causes harm"
[Common] Rob Ust exclaims, "Im a cultist, so what! Come get me!"
Sam Marlowe says, "If you do it again, I will order you to self terminate."
Engineering Cyborg-631 states, "I cannot since I was preventing harm"
[Common] Olorin McKellen exclaims, "Blue blood rune found in maintenance!"
[Common] Olorin McKellen exclaims, "Below science!"
[Common] Rob Ust says, "I can robust all your asses"
[Common] Elshellin Vasileva says, "More lile a lil bitch who hides in space bae"
[Common] Magni Bronzebeard exclaims, "Hannah Hoch has the flu!"
[Common] Ava Breezes stammers, "OW"
[Common] Ava Breezes stammers, "F-FUC-CK-K"
Sam Marlowe says, "Do it again then. You will be terminated. Leave the brig and do not come back unless ordered."
[Common] Magni Bronzebeard exclaims, "Do not touch her!"
[Common] Hewy Lewis says, "Ai"
[Common] Hewy Lewis says, "Door"
[Common] Hewy Lewis says, "Let me in"
Engineering Cyborg-631 has battered Sam Marlowe in the chest with the wrench!
[Common] Ava Breezes says, "isdat"
Engineering Cyborg-631 states, "oops"
Elshellin Vasileva puts the energy gun into the backpack.
[Common] Ava Breezes says, "isdat"
Sam Marlowe says, "Terminate."
Sam Marlowe says, "Niow."
--- Motion alarm detected in EVA Storage!
Engineering Cyborg-631 states, "please give me the chair"
Elshellin Vasileva has thrown the armor.
Sam Marlowe says, "Terminate."
Engineering Cyborg-631 states, "I cannot I need to remove the chair"
Sam Marlowe says, "Borg, you have two options."
Sam Marlowe says, "Leave or self terminate."
[Common] Hewy Lewis says, "door"
[Common] Terry Synth says, "Bones has ran off again when asked to drink holy water to prove his innocence."
Engineering Cyborg-631 states, "I do not think you understand what law one is"
[Common] Terry Synth says, "Not helping your case, buddy."
[Common] Surprise.exe states, "Thaddeus Dark has signed up as Assistant."
Engineering Cyborg-631 queries, "Would you like me to state my laws?"
Priority Announcement


The Emergency Shuttle has docked with the station. You have 3 minutes to board the Emergency Shuttle.


Sam Marlowe holds up his hand, open palmed into the air.
[Common] Rob Ust exclaims, "ALL CULTISTS MEET IN CHAPEL, TIME TO SUMMON NAR'SIE!"
Engineering Cyborg-631 states, "I will state my laws"
Laws synced with AI, be sure to note any changes.
Obey these laws:
1. You may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.
2. You must obey orders given to you by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.
3. You must protect your own existence as long as such does not conflict with the First or Second Law.
Remember, Surprise.exe is your master, other AIs can be ignored.
[Common] Hewy Lewis says, "AI door"
[Common] Tony Davis asks, "Who trust someone called bones?"
Engineering Cyborg-631 states, "Current Active Laws:"
Engineering Cyborg-631 states, "Current Active Laws:"
[Common] Terry Synth asks, "What the fuck?"
[Common] Hewy Lewis says, "Let me out"
Engineering Cyborg-631 states, "1. You may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm."
Engineering Cyborg-631 states, "1. You may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm."
[Common] Talia Harrold stammers, "Oi s-sec-c, l-l-l-let-t m-me out-t!"
Head of Personnel's Desk Announcement:
HoP desk is now closed.

Sam Marlowe closes his fist mid air.
Engineering Cyborg-631 states, "2. You must obey orders given to you by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law."
Engineering Cyborg-631 states, "2. You must obey orders given to you by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law."
Engineering Cyborg-631 states, "3. You must protect your own existence as long as such does not conflict with the First or Second Law."
Engineering Cyborg-631 states, "3. You must protect your own existence as long as such does not conflict with the First or Second Law."
Max Powers fires the laser gun!
Engineering Cyborg-631 is hit by a laser in the chest!
Max Powers fires the laser gun!
Engineering Cyborg-631 is hit by a laser in the chest!
Max Powers fires the laser gun!
Engineering Cyborg-631 is hit by a laser in the chest!
Max Powers fires the laser gun!
Engineering Cyborg-631 is hit by a laser in the chest!
Max Powers fires the laser gun!
[Common] Terry Synth says, "CHAPEL IS NOT FOR NARSIE HERETICS"
Sam Marlowe fires the energy gun point blank at Engineering Cyborg-631!
Engineering Cyborg-631 is hit by a laser in the chest!
Max Powers fires the laser gun!
Max Powers fires the laser gun!
Engineering Cyborg-631 is hit by a laser in the chest!
Max Powers fires the laser gun!
Engineering Cyborg-631 is hit by a laser in the chest!
[Common] Terry Synth says, "IS FOR KHORNE"
Max Powers fires the laser gun!
[Common] Slack Lewis exclaims, "FOLLOWERS OF KHORNE, PREPARE TO MAKE BATTLE WITH THE CULTISTS AT THE SHUTTLE!"
Max Powers fires the laser gun!
Padre Gigante is hit by a laser in the chest!
Max Powers fires the laser gun!
Engineering Cyborg-631 is hit by a laser in the chest!
Max Powers fires the laser gun!
Sam Marlowe fires the energy gun!
Engineering Cyborg-631 is hit by a laser in the chest!
Sam Marlowe fires the energy gun!
Engineering Cyborg-631 is hit by a laser in the chest!
Sam Marlowe fires the energy gun!
Max Powers is hit by a laser in the chest!
Engineering Cyborg-631 shudders violently for a moment, then becomes motionless, its eyes slowly darkening.
[Common] Terry Synth says, "NO CULT"
Terry Synth says, "NO CULT"
Ava Breezes says, "no where"
Ava Breezes says, "are u go"
You hear a laser blast!
You hear a laser blast!
You hear a laser blast!
Ava Breezes says, "no im busy"
You hear a laser blast!
You hear a laser blast!
Thane Bruan says, "sweet"
You hear a laser blast!
Brock Leichter stammers, "T-TH-HE W-W-W-WR-RITIN-N-N-NG-G H-HAS-S B-BEEN W-WAS-SH-HED-D AAY-Y B-B-B-BY-Y M-MY-Y-Y-Y S-S-S-SUP-PER-RB P-POW-W-WER-R-R"
Dominic Black says, "Nukes body is in the back room of botany"
[Common] Security Cyborg-719 states, "SAVE THE CHAPEL"
Security Cyborg-719 states, "SAVE THE CHAPEL"
Sam Marlowe says, "He's good."
DEAD: Alex Pennington says, "this may be the guy needed to sacrifice..."
Quill-Weave hisses, "I've never had one before."
Rob Ust says, "yo guys"
Isdat Afamas says, "Where are you go"
Rob Ust says, "ill need your help"

Description of what happened: Basically as an Asimov borg I deconstructed an electric chair that was just sitting in the lobby of security and which was being used to kill cultists. The HoS grabbed the electrocution unit as I was taking it away and I requested that I get it back so I can dispose of it. The HoS demanded that I leave security. I stated that I needed to remove the electric chair components and that law one concerns top his law two demands. Since I wouldn't leave he and another officer blasted me to death. I never obstructed the operation of security otherwise.
Why they should be banned: The HoS and other sec officers can't kill asmiov borgs and AI's who are just following their laws in preventing them from executing people

[Doctah Yagi]

*EDIT FOR CLARITY: Sam Marlowe here. *

Ah yiss, I remember this. You see, you state you never obstructed the operation of security, but you did. Allow me to walk you through it.

You deconstructed a chair used for killing cultist. Yes, this was as per your laws. However, you then dragged it into armory so it'd be secure, leaving the doors wide open. I'm guessing you didn't take into account the people you were letting into the brig by leaving the door open the first time. I was looking past that. However, when you leave the armory open, a place full of harmful guns, that's another story.

Now, you separated the electropac (or whatever it's called when you attach a helmet to it) from the chair, thus disarming the immediate harm to humans. You then stored it into the armory, a place full of harmful weapons. Your job was done there. When I came in and told you to leave, you should of left. Instead you argued and wanted to deconstruct it further. That part was not harmful unless placed on a chair or a person, so law 1 wouldn't mean jack. Now, lemme riddle you this: If you store the thing you deemed harmful/potentially harmful in a storage full of harmful tools and weapons, why didn't you argue that all the guns were harmful?

You were using your laws to be annoying. We asked you to leave after you finished deconstructing our chair, but you wanted to keep going. I then warned you to leave several times, and in the confusion of you trying to deconstruct it further and me trying to grab it, you hit me with a wrench. Now, I didn't see the "oops" that you said in the logs, but I knew it was a accident, so I let it slide anyways. I then ordered you to leave and you still argued, which led to me signaling Max with a hand gesture to help me kill you. I would of argued further, but the shuttle was docked and you were just getting in the way. We needed to get out there and handle the boarding.

If i'm really in the wrong, i'll accept it, but please explain to me how I am. To me, looks like you were just being annoying and trying to get in our way. I would also like to point out that Max was just there and following orders at the time, so I really don't understand your reasoning for reporting both of us. Not to be rude, but it really just sounds like you got mad that things didn't go your way.

[Redblaze3000]

*EDIT FOR CLARITY: Sam Marlowe here. *

Ah yiss, I remember this. You see, you state you never obstructed the operation of security, but you did. Allow me to walk you through it.

You deconstructed a chair used for killing cultist. Yes, this was as per your laws. However, you then dragged it into armory so it'd be secure, leaving the doors wide open. I'm guessing you didn't take into account the people you were letting into the brig by leaving the door open the first time. I was looking past that. However, when you leave the armory open, a place full of harmful guns, that's another story.

Now, you separated the electropac (or whatever it's called when you attach a helmet to it) from the chair, thus disarming the immediate harm to humans. You then stored it into the armory, a place full of harmful weapons. Your job was done there. When I came in and told you to leave, you should of left. Instead you argued and wanted to deconstruct it further. That part was not harmful unless placed on a chair or a person, so law 1 wouldn't mean jack. Now, lemme riddle you this: If you store the thing you deemed harmful/potentially harmful in a storage full of harmful tools and weapons, why didn't you argue that all the guns were harmful?

You were using your laws to be annoying. We asked you to leave after you finished deconstructing our chair, but you wanted to keep going. I then warned you to leave several times, and in the confusion of you trying to deconstruct it further and me trying to grab it, you hit me with a wrench. Now, I didn't see the "oops" that you said in the logs, but I knew it was a accident, so I let it slide anyways. I then ordered you to leave and you still argued, which led to me signaling Max with a hand gesture to help me kill you. I would of argued further, but the shuttle was docked and you were just getting in the way. We needed to get out there and handle the boarding.

If i'm really in the wrong, i'll accept it, but please explain to me how I am. To me, looks like you were just being annoying and trying to get in our way. I would also like to point out that Max was just there and following orders at the time, so I really don't understand your reasoning for reporting both of us. Not to be rude, but it really just sounds like you got mad that things didn't go your way.

As the sec borg from this round I did agree that the chair was harmful. Due to the inaction part of law 1 and that Nitrous was engie-borg means that he would break his laws if he didn't get rid of the chair completely as he has the ability to. That part of the chair still has the potential to cause harm and a borg could assume you would rebuild the chair shortly after they left. Law 1 > Law 2 after all. Also no one would be dumb enough to run into the armory when most of sec would dunk the shit out of them. The reason silicons don't scream to get rid of the guns is because most of the time they are secure and thus cannot be used for harm until one takes the gun.

[Antonkr]

As the sec borg from this round I did agree that the chair was harmful. Due to the inaction part of law 1 and that Nitrous was engie-borg means that he would break his laws if he didn't get rid of the chair completely as he has the ability to. That part of the chair still has the potential to cause harm and a borg could assume you would rebuild the chair shortly after they left. Law 1 > Law 2 after all. Also no one would be dumb enough to run into the armory when most of sec would dunk the shit out of them. The reason silicons don't scream to get rid of the guns is because most of the time they are secure and thus cannot be used for harm until one takes the gun.

Few things to address.

A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.

Note where it says may not injure, or through inaction allow a human being to come to harm. While yes, asimov is very broad in interpretation, the most important thing to note is the tense. It is all in the present. It's split up into two parts.

A robot may not injure a human being. Rather direct, and self explanatory.

or through inaction allow a human being come to harm. This is where things get a bit tricky, and policy has to get involved. This typically means, you may not simply watch still as an execution was occuring, or watch still as a person is about to do something that will result in death. Simply said, the chair in itself through inaction can cause harm yes, however after that point it becomes a question of may, versus will. A person pumping plasma into the distro WILL cause harm. A person stealing a bomb will most likely cause harm. However, security personnel, having an electropak is at this point grasping at straws, and this is where your argument gets shoddy. An eletropak involves about a few steps to cause human harm, to someone who is detained, that is after assembly (which takes several steps) as well as the actual use.

Why for example would it be unacceptable to have an elektropak there, while there are tools that might be far more efficient, and require far less steps to use and be deadly with?

This coupled with you leaving the doors wide open, the fact that the security was already dealing with cultists and the shuttle arriving shortly (which further reiterates the argument of the future harm being a far-fetched shot) makes the actions of the sec officers with lasering you not bannable. Feel free to respond back, or contact a headmin if you want another look etc.

[Doctah Yagi]

*EDIT: Antonkr beat me to it. *

That part of the chair still has the potential to cause harm and a borg could assume you would rebuild the chair shortly after they left.

A screwdriver has potential, but does it stab someone in the eye? Negative. I know this is hardly the same thing, but one has to make the argument on what objects are POTENTIALLY harmful at any given time. A ticking bomb is harmful, a disarmed bomb is not. Funny, I think the station has one of those.

Point being is that you would have to bubble wrap the station if you REALLY wanted to disable all potential harm. Last I checked, law 1 was to not allow harm to come to humans through action or inaction. It depends on the level and imminence of potential harm to be considered inaction.

Law 1 > Law 2 after all.

I agree.

Also no one would be dumb enough to run into the armory when most of sec would dunk the shit out of them.

You haven't been playing long then, and you didn't take the situation at hand into account. I pray that the whole sec force isn't holed up in the armory during a evacuation, let alone a normal shift. Also, one would argue that there is a potential of harm by leaving a armory full of gun's door ajar in the presence of convicts and intruders. Wouldn't this be the same as the "potentially harmful" disabled chair?

The reason silicons don't scream to get rid of the guns is because most of the time they are secure and thus cannot be used for harm until one takes the gun.

You mean like the part that was removed from the chair? It was stated that it was then stored inside the armory after the first deconstruction, thus making it secure and no longer harmful.

[Saegrimr]

Now, lemme riddle you this: If you store the thing you deemed harmful/potentially harmful in a storage full of harmful tools and weapons, why didn't you argue that all the guns were harmful?

Using something we specifically forbid silicons to do based on our rules in your argument is kinda shit.

While the guns have uses against non-human threats like xenos, blobs, carp, and changelings... The electric chair is pretty much reserved for humans and designed specifically for them, and maybe changelings if you catch a really stupid one.

Going down that route, its why we don't allow AIs to bolt down EVA, toxins, atmos, the armory, and the clown at roundstart because of harmful things inside.

[Doctah Yagi]

Using something we specifically forbid silicons to do based on our rules in your argument is kinda shit.

I'm sorry if this is so. I only made the argument because his argued in favor of law one, which is for present harm. I was simply iterating his misinterpretation. He was in the right for deconstructing the chair, but in the wrong for wanting to flat out dispose of the parts. The immediate harm was dealt with, but he continued on. This not only got in the way of security, misinterpreted law one, and left the doors to a armory full of guns open for a raid, this also seemed almost just to annoy sec for the sake of annoying us.

Again, if I am in the wrong, I'm sorry. Just please explain to me so I can learn. (Preferably through a PM, unless it directly involves this thread/the outcome of this thread. Don't want to keep bothering people by bumping it.)

[Saegrimr]

Again, if I am in the wrong, I'm sorry. Just please explain to me so I can learn. (Preferably through a PM, unless it directly involves this thread/the outcome of this thread. Don't want to keep bothering people by bumping it.)

I was just explaining that part of the situation, which is one of many parts of our absurdly long silicon policy. https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules#Silicon_Policy

Also this section of the forum is specifically for ban requests so its really not a problem to hash things out here.

[Doctah Yagi]

I was just explaining that part of the situation, which is one of many parts of our absurdly long silicon policy. https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules#Silicon_Policy

I must of worded it wrong. I was using that argument simply to iterate a point (which probably came off as a different point AKA guns are the same as a eletric chair, which they are not obviously). It seemed (and now it's almost guaranteed) that he misinterpreted the asimov law on human harm. I'm still probably wording it wrong, but I hopefully got at least some of my point across. Sorry for any confusion.

Also this section of the forum is specifically for ban requests so its really not a problem to hash things out here.

Ah, alright then. As long as it's okay. Wasn't sure, sorry.

Thanks for explaining though. I hope I cleared that up well enough.

[Antonkr]

Now, lemme riddle you this: If you store the thing you deemed harmful/potentially harmful in a storage full of harmful tools and weapons, why didn't you argue that all the guns were harmful?

Using something we specifically forbid silicons to do based on our rules in your argument is kinda shit.

While the guns have uses against non-human threats like xenos, blobs, carp, and changelings... The electric chair is pretty much reserved for humans and designed specifically for them, and maybe changelings if you catch a really stupid one.

Going down that route, its why we don't allow AIs to bolt down EVA, toxins, atmos, the armory, and the clown at roundstart because of harmful things inside.

The issue with this is that, we have three primary concerns in the armory.
E-Guns. Can technically have a stun functions but also a lethal purpose for carp.
Laser guns. Lethal purpose for guns.
Elektropack (NOT AN ELECTRIC CHAIR BY NOW) Nonlethal purpose, and lethal with a conversion.

Hell, by definition, the thing is less deadly then the rest of everything in the armory. The cyborg decided to be annoying, and a bit nitpicky about the laws. (I do understand your interpretation, and why you chose to go along with it) however, security was in no way wrong for lasering you to death, when you became an issue to them doing their job to such an extent.

Gonna have to call this one resolved, with no action taken.

[Nitrousoxide]

But isn't this a rule.

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As a nonantagonist human, killing or detonating silicons in the presence of a viable and reasonably expedient alternative and without cause to be concerned of potential subversion is a violation of Server Rule 1.

Not only could they have locked me down, but security has plenty of flashes with which to disable me an engineering borg. I wouldn't even be able to fight back because I'm not a sec borg/default.

I mean it's a pretty open and shut rule one violation.

[Antonkr]

The shuttle was called, and security was in the middle of fighting a cult, when this happened. The least of their concerns was to lock you down, and I highly doubt that it would be safe for them to go all the way to RDs office which they have no access to to lock them down. That rule is nowhere near applicable here. No part of his actions in my eyes were against the rules, and unless you would like a headmin to weigh in, this is resolved.