2k19 /pol/ - European Spring edition

IkeTG · Post by **IkeTG** » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:03 pm #484243

Bottom post of the previous page:

if brexit happens and the apocalypse starts y'all can bunk at my place

Post by **oranges** » Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:18 pm #484251

Incomptinence wrote:Oh you might want to take down singulo permanently oranges it is pretty low activity and not worth NZ police censorship warrants demanding user data not that I think it stores much of that.

pol is already banned

Incomptinence · Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:38 am

Well the grand censoring continues NZ police arresting over sharing the vid in NZ and getting isps in New Zealand and some in via bloody Aus-fucking-tralia also to block a plethora of sites for sharing the footage of the attack to varying degrees.
Telstra always looking for a chance to betray their customers was a front runner obviously: https://twitter.com/Telstra_news/status ... 3583844353

Sites like voat, 4chan, and 8ch (the only one that makes a lick of sense), gab's dissenter app, kiwi farms, live leak and some site called zero hedge all "temporarily" blocked so you can't see the dastardly video your feeble plebian mind can't withstand outside of establishment media clips of the same shit with a bit of blur. Gotta maintain ratings and income from this lucrative coverage I suppose.

Also on subject of kiwi farms apparently they and many other forums are being sent requests for user data so they can throw more people in jail.
Unbiased coverage from glorious news.com.au
https://www.news.com.au/technology/onli ... c42b3c2241
Also here this is confirmed real so here is a post with the contents of the original email and the correspondence afterward. Posting this so I can appreciate it after my ISP gets hip with the new iron curtain and I can't be bothered to bypass.
Initial email:

Glorious response and limp bow out by the cretin:

XSI · Post by **XSI** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:48 am #484454

Zero Hedge is a news site that is of questionable accuracy, and yet seems to often be equal or better than mainstream news
Quality varies pretty often though, and there are a few articles on there that look like they were written by a bunch of monkeys on typewriters

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:16 am #484457

lol it really is true that "I'm an American citizen" has become the new "Civis romanus sum". Nothing and nobody can touch you, while you can use your soft power to catch or kill anyone you want in the world, legally or not.

Law enforcement obviously needs the data to retrace his internet history, and maybe find websites where kindred spiritis may be planning other shootings in the future. You know, the same thing they do when they retrace the movements of a muslim terrorist to find whether he had help from a terrorist cell, how he entered the country etc. only applied to the internet. But by all means, you're in your rights to make this as difficult as possible for them, God forbid other innocent people may be saved.

And of course, I'm sure this has nothing to do with the victims being muslims. I'm sure that if it was a Muslim terrorist, those site owners and channers would also be uncompliant. I'm sure they wouldn't be turning every bit of data to the authorities and summoning the raw investigative power of an autistic army to retrace the tiniest detail of the shooter's life and history.

Post by **oranges** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:53 am #484463

don't worry, mr joshua moon is going to have some feds knocking on his door real soon

Incomptinence · Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:02 am

Well would you rat on people for even talking about the guy?

Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:07 am

Especially because the police were being extremely kind and just going "Hey could you preserve this please? We would really like to have it." Sure, that deserves telling the police to fuck off and insulting their entire country. Absolutely. A simple "No" wouldn't have sufficed or anything.

Also that end bit of the email is clearly automatically generated and completely reasonable considering 99.5% of emails sent are going to go to kiwis. What a dipshit.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:13 am #484466

The funny thing is that 4chan /pol/, 8chan and even the_donald used to have stickied threads inviting users to report any post even remotely implying threats (regardless of "irony") against GOD EMPEROR TRUMP directly to the FBI with links to the official crime report website.

Incomptinence · Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:52 am

Would still be information confidential to the police if someone did and while he did dox himself the day before when posting about his plan they didn't have his specific location. Correcting myself on that point to he sent the manifesto minutes before via email to several officials while the posting to 8chan was on thursday and included a link to his facebook profile as well as the manifesto.

After the lindt cafe attack we eventually had an inquest on many details of the attack including the police conduct and it was found flawed advice from a psychiatrist and negotiator on the potential for a peaceful resolution led to police going in latter than they should have.

I expect there will be more details and internal investigation along these lines.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:19 am #484488

Adult response: "I will refer you to my lawyer so you can sort out the legal process in accordance with US privacy laws which I'm required to follow to protect my users."
BALD EAGLE response: "lol fuck you loser and your shitty country eat my american ass"

Also am I the only one who thinks that if you make money from all the people who visit and use your website, you should also have a minimum amount of responsibility? I'm not saying you should be legally responsible of what they do and say, but at least pretend to have some moderation and remove posts where people are literally planning a mass shooting? If I own a theatre with thousands of seats, I'm required by law to have enough exits and fire extinguishers. The same goes for everything from cruise ships to stores, but when it comes to websites it's always "well there are millions of users and posts, we can't check them all". Then hire more mods, use algorithms, anything but look like you don't even remotely care. You are making money from those millions of users after all.

InsaneHyena · Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:41 am

It's funny how some people jump to defense of people they would normally call jackbooted thugs and fascists the moment a few tiny nuances appear. Get fucked.

Incomptinence · Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:47 am

Totalitarian states including fascist ones used censorship extensively to the point of only having state controlled media available.

These are also powers that can be used on anyone not just right wing inbred trailer trash and naturally creep due to shutting off any feedback from dissenters.

leibniz · Post by **leibniz** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:02 am #484495

Grazyn wrote:lol it really is true that "I'm an American citizen" has become the new "Civis romanus sum". Nothing and nobody can touch you, while you can use your soft power to catch or kill anyone you want in the world, legally or not.

Law enforcement obviously needs the data to retrace his internet history, and maybe find websites where kindred spiritis may be planning other shootings in the future. You know, the same thing they do when they retrace the movements of a muslim terrorist to find whether he had help from a terrorist cell, how he entered the country etc. only applied to the internet. But by all means, you're in your rights to make this as difficult as possible for them, God forbid other innocent people may be saved.

And of course, I'm sure this has nothing to do with the victims being muslims. I'm sure that if it was a Muslim terrorist, those site owners and channers would also be uncompliant. I'm sure they wouldn't be turning every bit of data to the authorities and summoning the raw investigative power of an autistic army to retrace the tiniest detail of the shooter's life and history.

1. That's not what soft power is. And soft power isn't really relevant for the average citizen.
2. Retrace what? The terrorist didn't post on kiwi afaik.
3. They'll autistically investigate his life anyway, this has nothing to do with giving out the IP of posters.

Grazyn wrote:Adult response: "I will refer you to my lawyer so you can sort out the legal process in accordance with US privacy laws which I'm required to follow to protect my users."
BALD EAGLE response: "lol fuck you loser and your shitty country eat my american ass"

Also am I the only one who thinks that if you make money from all the people who visit and use your website, you should also have a minimum amount of responsibility? I'm not saying you should be legally responsible of what they do and say, but at least pretend to have some moderation and remove posts where people are literally planning a mass shooting? If I own a theatre with thousands of seats, I'm required by law to have enough exits and fire extinguishers. The same goes for everything from cruise ships to stores, but when it comes to websites it's always "well there are millions of users and posts, we can't check them all". Then hire more mods, use algorithms, anything but look like you don't even remotely care. You are making money from those millions of users after all.

4. What legal process? This is like China calling up people smoking weed in the Netherlands and saying "ayyo, show up for execution in room #7731"
5. Planning a mass shooting is already illegal even in the US

IkeTG · Post by **IkeTG** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:13 am #484496

Grazyn wrote:lol it really is true that "I'm an American citizen" has become the new "Civis romanus sum". Nothing and nobody can touch you, while you can use your soft power to catch or kill anyone you want in the world, legally or not.

I get that you have a fundamental desire to punch up all the time, but the US totally extradites accused criminals, and quite often, too. Joshuna Moon AKA Iban most likely won't be extradited, but that doesn't mean there isn't any accountability for American citizens.

Some advice: stop making wordy assumptions. Brevity is a good life skill, and the shorter your diatribes are, the less chance you have to be completely and utterly wrong about something.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:21 am #484499

InsaneHyena wrote:It's funny how some people jump to defense of people they would normally call jackbooted thugs and fascists the moment a few tiny nuances appear. Get fucked.

>politely asking for potentially critical details about a guy who killed 50 people is the same as beating a junkie to death and if you defend one you must also defend the other

DAE leftists are hyprocrites? Talk about nuances. If we're playing this game, I found it more hypocritical to cheer cops when they kill random blacks and be all "MUH RIGHTS, MUH AMERICA" when they ask you to rat out your nazi friends

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:30 am #484502

leibniz wrote: 1. That's not what soft power is. And soft power isn't really relevant for the average citizen.

It is when your country has to comply with anything the US asks or *consequences*
And if it doesn't comply it doesn't matter because the US kills you anyway with drones

2. Retrace what? The terrorist didn't post on kiwi afaik.

Then what is the cop asking about? It's still something relevant to the investigation isn't it? Assuming it's not fake. Who is he to decide what is relevant or not?

3. They'll autistically investigate his life anyway, this has nothing to do with giving out the IP of posters.

those are the people who can identify a location from a picture of blank sky and pinpoint terrorist bases for Russian air strikes, we'll see if they put in as much effort but I have my doubts

4. What legal process? This is like China calling up people smoking weed in the Netherlands and saying "ayyo, show up for execution in room #7731"

Because countries never cooperate when investigating a crime? The cop asked, they guy said no, if it's still relevant I guess they'll just have the US law enforcement do the asking. Nobody is threatening prison or anything, it was a simple request

5. Planning a mass shooting is already illegal even in the US

Another reason to be cooperative

Incomptinence · Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:37 am

They want to jail users for talking about the attack and posting material related to it.
That is why they want the user information.
That is what the cop is asking about.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:41 am #484506

Incomptinence wrote:They want to jail users for talking about the attack and posting material related to it.
That is why they want the user information.
That is what the cop is asking about.

Yeah and the law applies to NZ citizens. So he's asking for the IPs to check if any NZ citizen broke the law. They are not going to jail americans, I don't think they even can. I do think NZ can ask the US for help in catching their own criminals, can't they? The US does it all the time.

IkeTG · Post by **IkeTG** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:43 am #484507

Grazyn wrote:
Incomptinence wrote:They want to jail users for talking about the attack and posting material related to it.
That is why they want the user information.
That is what the cop is asking about.
Yeah and the law applies to NZ citizens. So he's asking for the IPs to check if any NZ citizen broke the law. They are not going to jail americans, I don't think they even can. I do think NZ can ask the US for help in catching their own criminals, can't they? The US does it all the time.

http://www.mcnabbassociates.com/New%20Z ... States.pdf

They totally can, but I don't think extraditing someone over posting content related to a shooting would be a precedent the US wants to set, considering how dearly they hold the 1st amendment.

leibniz · Post by **leibniz** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:44 am #484509

Grazyn wrote:...

I dont want to get into a long argument because most of the stuff you are saying is all over the place, so I'll probably exit with this post.
Random citizens dont have soft power. I wont get drone striked if I disagree with the kiwifarms host or MSO.
The cops probably contacted site owners because the video has been classified as illegal to view, possess and share by the chief censor (literally) of NZ.
Source: https://www.classificationoffice.govt.n ... ctionable/
There's not much investigation to be done (by internet autists) because they guy was caught and catching the guy is the fun part usually.
Yes, the NZ cops are supposed to contact US cops to do business, that's how it works, if some random organisation from abroad contacts you, they can fuck off, this isn't unique to the US, it is why countries are sovereign.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:47 am #484510

Yeah but what I'm talking about has nothing to do with extradiction, what I mean is: NZ citizen currently residing in NZ breaks NZ law (on an American website). I honestly don't know how it works, but I don't think it's unreasonable for NZ law enforcement to ask the US to tell the guy to hand over his data so they can catch their own criminals. They were just polite enough to ask the guy first, he was in his right to be tell them to fuck off, now they'll go through the official channels I guess.

Incomptinence · Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:02 pm

It's a police gotcha trick like lying about having physical evidence in an interrogation.

Nothing friendly about being deceptive they should patiently stick to the official channels.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:22 pm #484517

leibniz wrote: I dont want to get into a long argument because most of the stuff you are saying is all over the place, so I'll probably exit with this post.
Random citizens dont have soft power. I wont get drone striked if I disagree with the kiwifarms host or MSO.

And while you sleep safely protected by the warm blanket of your country's soft power, your country uses that power to accidentally shoot down a civilian plane while trying to kill Gaddafi, crash a skylift with 20 people on board because the pilot wanted to show off, open fire on a car with a rescued hostage on it, resulting in the death of a secret service agent because America didn't like Italy paying ransoms, and so on and on and on with everything dutifully covered up and not even a slap on the wrist for the people at fault. Even if you don't hold soft power yourself, you still enjoy all the privileges that derive from it, that's why everyone wants to become an American citizen even if it takes like 30 years going through the legal way.

leibniz · Post by **leibniz** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:43 pm #484524

1. not my country
2. yes war crimes are bad

lntigracy · Post by **lntigracy** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:52 pm #484532

Grazyn wrote:Yeah but what I'm talking about has nothing to do with extradiction, what I mean is: NZ citizen currently residing in NZ breaks NZ law (on an American website). I honestly don't know how it works, but I don't think it's unreasonable for NZ law enforcement to ask the US to tell the guy to hand over his data so they can catch their own criminals. They were just polite enough to ask the guy first, he was in his right to be tell them to fuck off, now they'll go through the official channels I guess.

Imagine thinking that people from a country where freedom of speech is held sacred should just roll over and facilitate people being arrested for thoughtcrimes.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:04 pm #484539

lntigracy wrote:
Grazyn wrote:Yeah but what I'm talking about has nothing to do with extradiction, what I mean is: NZ citizen currently residing in NZ breaks NZ law (on an American website). I honestly don't know how it works, but I don't think it's unreasonable for NZ law enforcement to ask the US to tell the guy to hand over his data so they can catch their own criminals. They were just polite enough to ask the guy first, he was in his right to be tell them to fuck off, now they'll go through the official channels I guess.
Imagine thinking that people from a country where freedom of speech is held sacred should just roll over and facilitate people being arrested for thoughtcrimes.

Can I go on vacation in the US and buy a gun in the first supermaket I find? It's my God given right enshrined in the Holy Constitu-oh wait your paper only applies to american citizens

leibniz · Post by **leibniz** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:07 pm #484540

Grazyn wrote:
lntigracy wrote:
Grazyn wrote:Yeah but what I'm talking about has nothing to do with extradiction, what I mean is: NZ citizen currently residing in NZ breaks NZ law (on an American website). I honestly don't know how it works, but I don't think it's unreasonable for NZ law enforcement to ask the US to tell the guy to hand over his data so they can catch their own criminals. They were just polite enough to ask the guy first, he was in his right to be tell them to fuck off, now they'll go through the official channels I guess.
Imagine thinking that people from a country where freedom of speech is held sacred should just roll over and facilitate people being arrested for thoughtcrimes.
Can I go on vacation in the US and buy a gun in the first supermaket I find? It's my God given right enshrined in the Holy Constitu-oh wait your paper only applies to american citizens

2nd amendment is not really relevant to people on vacation

Incomptinence · Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:09 pm

I too envy having actual rights Grazyn it's okay.

Incomptinence · Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:41 pm

https://www.tubefilter.com/2019/03/18/y ... h-results/
I wondered why I could not filter videos by time lately.

But, in this case, it wasn’t enough. So YouTube took more unusual steps. It temporarily disabled search functions that allowed users to sort videos by upload time, since many new uploads were footage of the massacre. That gave it more time to find and pull down footage before viewers could see it. More radically, it also made a tweak to the aforementioned automatic detection system. That tweak removed the need for one of YouTube’s thousands of human moderators to approve a video’s takedown after the system flagged it for containing footage of the shooting. So, instead of videos being put into a queue for YouTube employees to check that they had been correctly flagged, they were simply pulled down without double-checking.

Screw functionality, screw the users, screw sense (time filters still there on UI just doesn't work).
Only control matters.

lntigracy · Post by **lntigracy** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:16 pm #484576

Grazyn wrote:
lntigracy wrote:
Grazyn wrote:Yeah but what I'm talking about has nothing to do with extradiction, what I mean is: NZ citizen currently residing in NZ breaks NZ law (on an American website). I honestly don't know how it works, but I don't think it's unreasonable for NZ law enforcement to ask the US to tell the guy to hand over his data so they can catch their own criminals. They were just polite enough to ask the guy first, he was in his right to be tell them to fuck off, now they'll go through the official channels I guess.
Imagine thinking that people from a country where freedom of speech is held sacred should just roll over and facilitate people being arrested for thoughtcrimes.
Can I go on vacation in the US and buy a gun in the first supermaket I find? It's my God given right enshrined in the Holy Constitu-oh wait your paper only applies to american citizens

This statement is unironically false.

ohnopigeons · Post by **ohnopigeons** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:20 pm #484577

Imagine if China had asked for IP logs of forum users

Takeguru · Post by **Takeguru** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:29 pm #484585

If I were in the Kiwifarms owner's shoes, I would have done the same
Been more polite about it, but definitely told him no and posted the email

If you're worried about your citizens committing thought crimes, that's entirely on you to police, I'm not willing to assist you without being forced

Real question, if he livestreamed on Facebook, why wasn't Facebook banned
Real hypocritical of them, if you're gonna ban one major site for posting it, you better ban ALL of them

Lumbermancer · Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:45 pm

Takeguru wrote:If I were in the Kiwifarms owner's shoes, I would have done the same
Been more polite about it, but definitely told him no and posted the email

You are absolutely in the right, but you make yourself look like a dime a dozen memster in the position of authority. Smart move.

Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:57 pm

There is no amount of money you could pay me to make me manually watch videos of what is suspected to be a mass shooting to make sure it is, in fact, a mass shooting. That's literally torture.

Lumbermancer · Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:17 pm

It's called empathy, and it's nothing to be ashamed of.

ThanatosRa · Post by **ThanatosRa** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:41 am #484701

I am kinda glad I've had my head in the sand lately due to my own stress levels. Jesus Christ what the fuck.

Incomptinence · Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:44 am

On the absolutely milking this side info wars is still pushing the IT'S ALL FAKE conspiracy angle which is genuinely disgusting and leads to little but a few clicks on their niche shit and an enormous harassment campaign against the families of the victims. Stupid awful stuff like claiming their deceased loved ones were paid actors that just legged it off into the countryside or some crap.
Not what anyone needs after such a terrible attack but it's pretty much standard for them.
Not linking them simply because their weird supplement ads would make me feel like I was peddling penis enlargement pills.

The ever charming Mr Erdogan is airing the footage at rallies in the Turkish election and quoting the manifesto to stir up the base.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-03-20/ ... m/10918696

He has demanded that New Zealand reinstitute the death penalty for the criminal, despite there currently being no death penalty in turkey for 15 years and no actual executions in the country for 35 years.
If they do not do so he has said this:

If New Zealand doesn't make you, we know how to make you pay one way or another.

Breaking into prison to kill him? I am a bit bewildered.

We are all out to get turkey specifically apparently.

They are testing us from 16,500 kilometres away, from New Zealand, with the messages they are giving from there," he said. "This isn't an individual act, this is organised.

Oh and where would we be without the threats?

Your grandparents came here and they returned in caskets," he said. "Have no doubt we will send you back like your grandfathers.

Talking about people who go to visit the memorial of Gallipoli in remembrance of the fallen ANZACs and how much of a historic British led cock up it was.
Luckily the heads of liberal and labour parties have called this usual Turkish nonsense out instead of taking it.

XSI · Post by **XSI** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:19 am #484852

Erdogan is one of those people that should never have been let anywhere near a leadership position
If Turkey had oil, he would have gone the way of Saddam and Ghaddafi long ago

ohnopigeons · Post by **ohnopigeons** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:37 am #484857

If only the coup didn't fail

Lumbermancer · Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:40 am

you could make the case that the coup was a quasi-false-flag engineered to fail, and to enable him to go ahead with the purges and consolidation of power (changing of constitution)

Rustledjimm · Post by **Rustledjimm** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 4:34 pm #484938

I watched that coup.

It was genuinely terrible. You could plan a better coup on the back of a beer mat.

Rustledjimm · Post by **Rustledjimm** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:17 pm #484974

Theresa may to make another statement at 8pm gmt. I suspect it will be exactly the same as all her other statements and will disappoint everyone immeasurably.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:08 pm #484980

Another day, another terrorist attack. A bus driver, italian citizen of senegalese origin, hijacked a school bus full of kids and tried to reach the the airport, apparently to cause some chaos on the runways, "in retaliation for the deaths in the Mediterranean". He was rammed by the police, some kids managed to escape from the windows, then he set it alight. Luckily, there were no casualties, just a lot of panic.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47642298

video with dramatic music

https://video.corriere.it/attentato-pau ... wB7gDfPa44

Super Aggro Crag · Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:05 pm

prior troubles with the law include child molestation and driving under the influence of alcohol

AY LET'S MAKE HIM A BUS DRIVER

Takeguru · Post by **Takeguru** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:20 pm #485040

Terror attacks are just part and parcel of living in a big city

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:35 pm #485047

Super Aggro Crag wrote:prior troubles with the law include child molestation and driving under the influence of alcohol

AY LET'S MAKE HIM A BUS DRIVER

Yeah that probably wasn't a bright idea in hindsight

Super Aggro Crag · Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:20 am

Grazyn wrote:
Super Aggro Crag wrote:prior troubles with the law include child molestation and driving under the influence of alcohol

AY LET'S MAKE HIM A BUS DRIVER
Yeah that probably wasn't a bright idea in hindsight

Im not blaming you for it grazyn you didn't hire hin

Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:43 pm

Super Aggro Crag wrote:prior troubles with the law include child molestation and driving under the influence of alcohol

AY LET'S MAKE HIM A BUS DRIVER

Reintegrating criminals is necessary so they're not forced back into criminality to make ends meet. Personally I wouldn't have let the guy with a DUI drive professionally unless he was the only candidate available.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:17 pm #485229

Maybe prison should have taught him to code instead

XSI · Post by **XSI** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:34 pm #485233

Surely there were other candidates available for that job, and surely there were other jobs available for him?