[gigapuddi420] CrazyClown12 - 1 week Captain Ban because I Executed shitter for various crimes

[CrazyClown12]

This is an appeal to the headmins as Gigapuddi has stated in discord she will not reconsider the ban.

Byond account and character name: CrazyClown12 - Rodrigo Williamson
Banning admin: Gigapuddi420
Ban type (What are you banned from?): Captain, Head of Security for 1 week
Ban reason and length: Executed an assistant for pushing him over while securing some evidence from a traitor. You have the tools and the authority to arrest people who cause you trouble, executions are usually reserved for people who are highly dangerous or confirmed traitors. Take a break from Captain for a while and be more rational next time.

(I dispute the accuracy of this note - It is deliberately reductionist to the point of complete inaccuracy, especially as I was not there to "secure evidence". I was waiting by disposals as the AI had told me that the Mime, who had purchased an esword, obtained a taser from the HoS and had been murdering people, was disposaling himself. Further, I did not execute because I got Pushed over. This note does not accurately portray the situation at all.

Time ban was placed (including time zone): 01/03/2018 18:51 UK
Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Terry

Your side of the story: I was playing Captain, which on Terry is normally a relatively chill job. However, this round there was a lot going on. There were multiple traitors, some of which seemed to be going on murder sprees. There was a xeno egg in xenobio. The HoS was incompetent to the point that multiple people were calling for him to be demoted.

The mime had attacked the HoS with an esword, who then dropped a taser. I wasn't sure if this was a case of a very robust mime or an unrobust HoS (I suspected a combination of both) but I didn't like the idea of someone running around the station with an instant stun + esword combo, so I armed up and went after him. AI told me he was in theater but about to disposal himself, so I went to disposals and waited. A cargo tech entered and told me he found syndie stuff, so gave it to me. He was followed in by an assistant who was trespassing. The assistant starts running around the disposals line, so I tell him that the mime (who has been called out as a murderer multiple times) is about to go there and he should go. His response to this is just to fucking disarm me. I ignore him doing this and tell him to stop, but he does it multiple times.

He stops and starts running circles again, so I start having a look at the syndie box a cargo tech bought me. I found a holoparasite injector, I assume its used so pick it out to have a look and the shitter assistant attacks me again. He rips it out of my hands, then before I can arrest him he runs away via the disposals line (which he turned on after I turned off). At this point I'm starting to doubt what the AI had told me about the mime going down disposals (The AI was subverted that round but I didnt look into that because it's largely irrelevant as I didn't realise).

So this assistant broke in, attacked me when as far as we were aware a stun+ esword wielding murderer was inbound, then stole my only lead on a different traitor before making his escape.

I have had no prior interaction with this guy, he just enters a space he has no access to, attacks me when a murderer is inbound in a seeming attempt to leave me vulnerable and then steals my only evidence lead and escapes. He had no reason to attack me, so I assume he is a threat and go to arrest him in disposals, as I don't want him attacking me when I am in a vulnerable situation.
`
As all of this is going, there is a xeno threat in xenobio. I had allowed science to raise the xeno egg (This always gets out of hand, but I figured I would allow them to do it as its more fun for everyone). I can only do one thing at a time, but as I was sorting out the shitter assistant the xeno became a queen and the reports on radio were asking for help from Security, as apparently the measures taken by science were ineffective and we had the start of an outbreak (imagine my shock).

I took him to the execution chamber and accused him of his crimes. He responded by claiming that he hadn't stolen anything, which is a shockingly retarded thing to claim given that I was a first hand witness. This established him as a liar, making it clear that no discussions would be in any way productive. This guy had basically attacked me when I was vulnerable (all information I had at the time led me to believe that the mime was inbound, although from logs I think he was actually being killed in atmos at the time), multiple times despite no IC reason. As I had warned him that a murderer was coming yet he still decided to attack me, then disposed of the only traitor item I had for another lead that I was going to scan, it seemed likely that he was a syndicate agent (Most likely from an IC perspective), or from an OOC perspective that he was some shitter who didn't roll antag so was going to help those that did. He was an assistant and no reason to be in that same room as me, let alone attack me and steal the traitor item.

Escalation policy states that because security (which as Captain I effectively was) has non-lethals they shouldn't kill people unless they are also eligible for execution. No definition of eligible for execution is given, except for a list of Capital crimes on the space law page. 3 of these were relevant;

Mutiny - To act individually, or as a group, to overthrow or subvert the established Chain of Command without lawful and legitimate cause. There was a clear and immediate danger and he immediately decided to assault me, multiple times. It was not just a one off, he did it repeatedly. I had also told him that a known murderer was going to appear. Disarm spam can leave people on the ground and vulnerable, which is probably what would have happened to me if it wasn't for the secway + riot shield blocking most of his attempts.

Grand Theft - To steal items of high value or sensitive nature. Someone on station had a holopara, by stealing the injector he knowingly got rid of the only lead that security had.

Enemy of the Corporation To act as, or knowingly aid, an enemy of Nanotrasen. A known traitor is reported to be on his way through disposals. I tell this guy that and his immediate response is to attack me. Further to this, he then goes onto dispose of the only lead of a seperate traitor.

Having read the logs, I have now got access to exactly what Assistant McShitter was doing all round. He joined late and his only interactions seemed to be to attack people. (Maybe I'm missing a lot, because I only checked Game logs) but it seems as though he pretty much wordlessly ran around griefing and attacking people with no provocation. He contribution to the round seemed to be nothing positive. During the round I had no idea that this was the case, however it really makes it clear that by removing this guy from the round, nothing of value was lost. I also took the time to explain exactly what he did wrong and why he was eligible for execution, giving him plenty of opportunity to develop and grow as a player.

Why you think you should be unbanned: I did nothing wrong. An IC issue came up which I handled IC both fully to the letter and spirit. Perhaps I could change my play style to be more inclusive of people who treat the game like Grief Simulator 13, but I have received 0 warnings about this in the past and generally play in a way that allows other people to enjoy the game. Despite the ban description, I have acted in good faith and rationally. I do find myself clearly questioning the (lack of logic) in the banning decision.

One final point. Don't let this drop, LoliMilkAparatus needs to be punished for ban baiting.

[CrazyClown12]

Log dump (covers most things I mentioned, xenos, retard HoS, mime in disposals, the event)

Spoiler:

2019-03-01 18:27:43 90 127 2 Command Hallway SAY Jokkemokke/(Moises Highlands) "traitor got my taeser he hitted me ground to laser sword"
2019-03-01 18:28:52 143 169 2 Dormitories SAY Nemvar/(Zack Kiefer) "HOS is being a massive idiot. Refusing treatment and not talking at all"
2019-03-01 18:29:10 122 150 2 Locker Room SAY Pandemonium1778/(Ardenti Sempiternum) "Declare him unfit for duty, captain?"
2019-03-01 18:29:08 214 143 2 AI Chamber SAY Kittenplays/(Artificial Intelligence) "Mime has Ebow and Esword in Theatre Back room"

2019-03-01 18:29:55 132 48 2 Xenobiology Lab SAY SpaceLove/(Clara Bloise) "RD MADE XENO AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA"
2019-03-01 18:30:11 214 143 2 AI Chamber SAY Kittenplays/(Artificial Intelligence) "Mime has disposalled himself"
2019-03-01 18:31:19 69 138 2 Delivery Office SAY CrazyClown12/(Rodrigo Williamson) "all out"
2019-03-01 18:31:25 69 138 2 Delivery Office SAY CrazyClown12/(Rodrigo Williamson) "OUT"

2019-03-01 18:31:30 70 139 2 Delivery Office ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has attempted to touch CrazyClown12/(Rodrigo Williamson) (NEWHP: 98.5)
2019-03-01 18:31:33 70 139 2 Delivery Office ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has attempted to touch CrazyClown12/(Rodrigo Williamson) (NEWHP: 98.5)
2019-03-01 18:31:34 70 139 2 Delivery Office ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has attempted to disarm CrazyClown12/(Rodrigo Williamson) (NEWHP: 98.5)
2019-03-01 18:31:35 70 139 2 Delivery Office ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has attempted to touch CrazyClown12/(Rodrigo Williamson) (NEWHP: 98.5)
2019-03-01 18:31:41 69 139 2 Delivery Office ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has disarmed CrazyClown12/(Rodrigo Williamson) with removing the holoparasite injector (NEWHP: 98.5)
2019-03-01 18:31:41 69 138 2 Delivery Office SAY CrazyClown12/(Rodrigo Williamson) "out"
2019-03-01 18:31:45 69 138 2 Delivery Office SAY CrazyClown12/(Rodrigo Williamson) "the mime will be here"
2019-03-01 18:31:47 69 139 2 Delivery Office ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has disarmed CrazyClown12/(Rodrigo Williamson) (NEWHP: 98.5)
2019-03-01 18:31:50 69 137 2 Delivery Office SAY CrazyClown12/(Rodrigo Williamson) "stop"
2019-03-01 18:32:20 72 165 2 Port Bow Maintenance ATTACK CrazyClown12/(Rodrigo Williamson) has stunned LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) (NEWHP: 100)

2019-03-01 18:32:29 156 137 2 Engineering Foyer SAY Waluigi Is Gay/(John Bright) (guardian) "AI won't respone"

2019-03-01 18:32:27 71 165 2 Port Bow Maintenance ATTACK CrazyClown12/(Rodrigo Williamson) has handcuffed LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) (NEWHP: 100)
2019-03-01 18:32:27 71 165 2 Port Bow Maintenance ATTACK CrazyClown12/(Rodrigo Williamson) has grabbed LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) passive grab (NEWHP: 100)

2019-03-01 18:34:15 131 64 2 Xenobiology Lab SAY Gooboi/(Huey Emmerich) "IT'S A FUCKING QUEEN!!!"

2019-03-01 18:34:04 83 184 2 Prisoner Education Chamber SAY LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) "you cant kill me for pushing you"
2019-03-01 18:34:07 82 183 2 Prisoner Education Chamber SAY LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) "thats illegal!"

2019-03-01 18:34:17 82 184 2 Prisoner Education Chamber SAY CrazyClown12/(Rodrigo Williamson) "I asked you to leave because we expected the mime"
2019-03-01 18:34:20 82 184 2 Prisoner Education Chamber SAY CrazyClown12/(Rodrigo Williamson) "but you assisted him"

2019-03-01 18:34:22 131 64 2 Xenobiology Lab SAY Gooboi/(Huey Emmerich) "WE NEED SECURITY AND ATMOS"
2019-03-01 18:34:23 131 64 2 Xenobiology Lab SAY Gooboi/(Huey Emmerich) "NOW"
2019-03-01 18:34:23 132 47 2 Xenobiology Lab SAY Pandemonium1778/(Ardenti Sempiternum) "XENOMORPH QUEEN"

2019-03-01 18:34:25 82 184 2 Prisoner Education Chamber SAY CrazyClown12/(Rodrigo Williamson) "and stole a traitor item"
2019-03-01 18:34:31 82 184 2 Prisoner Education Chamber SAY LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) "i didnt stole any traitor item"
2019-03-01 18:34:32 83 184 2 Prisoner Education Chamber SAY CrazyClown12/(Rodrigo Williamson) "you fucking attacked me"
2019-03-01 18:34:47 82 184 2 Prisoner Education Chamber SAY CrazyClown12/(Rodrigo Williamson) "tresspass, assualt, muinty, theft, assisting a criminal"
2019-03-01 18:34:56 83 184 2 Prisoner Education Chamber SAY CrazyClown12/(Rodrigo Williamson) "I literally fucking can kill you"
2019-03-01 18:35:00 83 184 2 Prisoner Education Chamber SAY CrazyClown12/(Rodrigo Williamson) "and you deserve it"
2019-03-01 18:35:31 82 183 2 Prisoner Education Chamber SAY CrazyClown12/(Rodrigo Williamson) "I've got bigger things to worry about then a cunt trying to steal my shit"
2019-03-01 18:35:36 82 183 2 Prisoner Education Chamber ATTACK CrazyClown12/(Rodrigo Williamson) has injected LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) with the lethal injection syringe which had plasma (15u), formaldehyde (15u), cyanide (10u) and facid (10u) (NEWHP: 100)

2019-03-01 18:34:29 132 48 2 Xenobiology Lab SAY Pandemonium1778/(Ardenti Sempiternum) "SECURITY AND ATMOS TO XENOBIO NOW"


2019-03-01 18:26:58 97 128 2 Command Hallway ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has disarmed Urthrem/(Gael Thomas) (NEWHP: 100)
2019-03-01 18:26:59 97 128 2 Command Hallway ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has disarmed Urthrem/(Gael Thomas) (NEWHP: 100)
2019-03-01 18:27:00 97 128 2 Command Hallway ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has pushed over Urthrem/(Gael Thomas) (NEWHP: 100)
2019-03-01 18:27:02 96 129 2 Command Hallway ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has pushed over Urthrem/(Gael Thomas) (NEWHP: 100)
2019-03-01 18:27:02 96 129 2 Command Hallway ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has pushed over Urthrem/(Gael Thomas) (NEWHP: 100)
2019-03-01 18:27:03 96 129 2 Command Hallway ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has pushed over Urthrem/(Gael Thomas) (NEWHP: 100)
2019-03-01 18:27:04 96 129 2 Command Hallway ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has attempted to disarm Urthrem/(Gael Thomas) (NEWHP: 100)
2019-03-01 18:27:15 127 116 2 Central Primary Hallway ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has disarmed Pomfy/(Seymour Mikhaylov) (NEWHP: 100)
2019-03-01 18:27:17 127 116 2 Central Primary Hallway ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has attempted to disarm Pomfy/(Seymour Mikhaylov) (NEWHP: 100)
2019-03-01 18:27:25 130 125 2 Bar ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has attempted to disarm Pandemonium1778/(Ardenti Sempiternum) (NEWHP: 100)
2019-03-01 18:27:27 130 125 2 Bar ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has attempted to disarm Pandemonium1778/(Ardenti Sempiternum) (NEWHP: 100)
2019-03-01 18:27:28 130 125 2 Bar ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has attempted to disarm Pandemonium1778/(Ardenti Sempiternum) (NEWHP: 100)
2019-03-01 18:27:29 130 125 2 Bar ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has attempted to disarm Pandemonium1778/(Ardenti Sempiternum) (NEWHP: 100)
2019-03-01 18:27:30 130 125 2 Bar ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has attempted to disarm Pandemonium1778/(Ardenti Sempiternum) (NEWHP: 100)
2019-03-01 18:27:33 130 125 2 Bar ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has pushed over Pandemonium1778/(Ardenti Sempiternum) (NEWHP: 100)
2019-03-01 18:27:34 130 125 2 Bar ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has disarmed Pandemonium1778/(Ardenti Sempiternum) (NEWHP: 100)
2019-03-01 18:27:35 130 125 2 Bar ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has disarmed Pandemonium1778/(Ardenti Sempiternum) (NEWHP: 100)
2019-03-01 18:27:36 130 125 2 Bar ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has disarmed Pandemonium1778/(Ardenti Sempiternum) (NEWHP: 100)
2019-03-01 18:27:37 130 125 2 Bar ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has disarmed Pandemonium1778/(Ardenti Sempiternum) (NEWHP: 100)
2019-03-01 18:27:39 130 125 2 Bar ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has attempted to disarm Pandemonium1778/(Ardenti Sempiternum) (NEWHP: 100)
2019-03-01 18:27:39 131 124 2 Bar SAY Pandemonium1778/(Ardenti Sempiternum) "Stop."
2019-03-01 18:27:40 130 125 2 Bar ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has attempted to disarm Pandemonium1778/(Ardenti Sempiternum) (NEWHP: 100)
2019-03-01 18:27:42 131 125 2 Bar ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has pushed over Pandemonium1778/(Ardenti Sempiternum) (NEWHP: 100)
2019-03-01 18:27:47 126 136 2 Central Primary Hallway ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has pushed over Waluigi Is Gay/(John Bright) (NEWHP: 100)
2019-03-01 18:28:06 88 140 2 Central Primary Hallway ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has pushed over Sicily/(Ryder Kemerer) (NEWHP: 100)
2019-03-01 18:28:07 89 138 2 Central Primary Hallway ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has disarmed Jokkemokke/(Moises Highlands) (NEWHP: 92.8)
2019-03-01 18:28:23 ADMIN Gigapuddi420/(Cleo Banks) checked the individual player panel for LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding).
2019-03-01 18:28:38 88 141 2 Central Primary Hallway ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has disarmed Holouser/(Chad McRad) (NEWHP: 100)
2019-03-01 18:28:47 85 145 2 Port Bow Maintenance ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has grabbed MagnumVulcanos[DC]/(Hithman Lerry) passive grab (NEWHP: 24)
2019-03-01 18:28:49 88 145 2 Central Primary Hallway ATTACK LoliMilkAparatus/(Nickolas Harding) has shaken MagnumVulcanos[DC]/(Hithman Lerry) (NEWHP: 24)

[Pandemnonium1776]

I remember this round, that assistant was definitely baiting people. I can't comment on what transpired between the Captain and the Assistant that resulted in an execution, but LoliMilkAparatus spent the round jumping people at random to try and get them to fight back. This ontop of an extremely chaotic round (xenos, retarded HoS and so forth) really should have justified the extreme response to a greytider in my opinion. Rodrigo also did what he could on an extremely chaotic round, in less than thirty minutes the station went to shit due to a combination of incompetent players and traitor actions.

I can't help but feel like punishing someone for the extreme action of executing someone who behaves like an antag is unjust in such a scenario, things were far too chaotic to take 5 - 10 minutes to stun, detain, question and try and deal with the greytider, as several parts of the station needed urgent assistance.

You can even see in the logs where he attacked me, I wasn't aware that he was going after others too - but the guy definitely jumped me in the bar trying to get me to attack him so he could ahelp.

[Gigapuddi420]

Oh, you posted logs saving me the trouble of posting them myself. So to sum up your entire conflict with him; this guy trespassed to follow you while you were pursuing a known traitor. He tries his luck disarming you, stops, someone brings evidence of a traitor and he takes it out of your hands and dumps it before trying to run off. You quickly arrest the guy and drag him kicking and screaming all the way to the re-education center and pumped him full of lethal injection before leaving his corpse there for the rest of the shift.

When I looked over this it came across as a pretty extreme punishment for the crimes he had actually committed. The assistant was trying and failing to disarm you through a riot shield only to eventually get a lucky disarm. He clearly committed a crime by interfering with your investigation, disarming you and flushing your evidence. It was completely within reason to arrest him and arrest him for a long time. What I take issue with is that you easily arrested this guy non-lethally, took him to security for punishment and decided he deserved to be executed (permanently removing him from the round) over what amounts to harassment and interference. At no point did this person actually harm you or do enough to really be completely valid for round removal. Security have additional protections and expectations when dealing with escalation to represent the fact they have the authority and equipment to make arrests. You can't escalate a officer to the point you kill them when they are simply doing their job arresting trouble makers, but in turn the officer can't just execute someone who throws a few punches at them because the officer has the ability to arrest such people. To quote security policy:

Rule 1 of the main rules apply to security. The only exception is that security is generally considered to be armed with non-lethal methods to control a situation. Therefore, where reasonably possible, security is expected to use non-lethal methods first in a conflict before escalating to lethal methods.
Rule 4 of the main rules also apply to security. Security are not exceptions to the rule where non-antagonists can do anything they want, as per rule 4, to antagonists.
The 'act like an antag, get treated like one' part of Rule 4 of the main rules also apply to security. Stunning an officer repeatedly, using lethal or restricted weapons on them, disrupting the arrests or sentences of dangerous criminals, or damaging the brig, are examples of behavior that may make you valid for security under Rule 4. Make sure players deserve it when you treat them as an antag, when in doubt, err on the side of caution as poor behavior on the part of security will not be tolerated.

To quickly cover ' disrupting the arrests or sentences of dangerous criminals' this section mainly refers to taking prisoners from security or attempting to free them. To me it's a stretch to execute someone for taking a used holo-parasite injector from you and flushing it. It definitely justifies a hefty sentence, but round removal comes across as extreme. I fully get the guy was being annoying but I don't see what he was doing as outright antagonistic. He didn't even take a weapon from you or attack you in any way besides those disarm attempts. After you arrested them you had all the options in the world to chose from on how to handle him for what he actually did to you. You could gulag him, brig him, beat the shit out of him, patch him up enough to not die and throw him out of brig and so on. You went for execution, a option usually reserved for confirmed antagonists and people who fight security with lethal force. To me that was extreme and wasn't reasonable punishment for what they actually did.

I have not been convinced their actions or your situation justified this level of punishment. They didn't take some prisoner from you, they didn't pose a significant threat nor were they a dangerous criminal. It quickly became clear they were just another tiding assistant, one that hadn't even taken your weapon or harmed you. I don't think their crime was worthy of execution and you deserved some time off positions typically associated with deciding if it's ok to execute someone.

I won't be lifting this ban. We can talk about changing the note if you're particularly bothered about the wording or just wait to see if some headmin wants to rule in your favor and overrule. I don't mind either.