The Captain's laser lockdown

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 12:25 am #46519

There's a certain point in some rounds where the shit's hit the fan and the Captain will want to use his laser.
Someone had the bright idea of making it bolt down your room, yes you could ask the AI to let you out but its only going to do so if you've changed its laws or there are lings/xenos about (because otherwise its only going to get used against humans, thus law 1), besides the AI could be dead,inactive,rogue,subverted,malfunctioning, or just not exist

The alarm shouldn't trigger on red alert.
Gives a way to get the laser when needed whilst still preventing round start comdoms grabbing it.

Might actually encourage people to use the alert system more often too

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 1:32 am #46536

If the AI refuses to let you out if you directly order it to, that's probably breaking its laws and likely server rule 1. Thats like bolting the warden down for handing out eguns from the armory. Its YOUR gun, whether you want to ruin your perfectly good display case and dirty up your beautiful antique laser or not is a different matter entirely.

If you're busting it down and tell the AI you plan to laser some nerds of course its gonna keep you locked in, thats' just stupid of you for telling an asimov AI you intend to harm people.

Intigracy · Post by **Intigracy** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 1:33 am #46537

.

Post by **lumipharon** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:48 am #46576

The AI MUST unbolt the doors unless it has a genuine, direct law 1 concern. The AI for example does not lock down the armory because it's filled with lasers, and it cannot do it for the antique laser. If an asimov AI does this to you with a decent reason to suspect you're going to harm people, ahelp it.
The lockdown was added it make it somewhat harder to steal the gun, also partly to disuade condoms from smashing out their own ANTIQUE shiny and valuable gun every round.

Also if nothing else just disposal yourself.

Cik · Post by **Cik** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:52 am #46578

any AI that locks you in because you're maybe picking up a weapon is ridiculous. oh no you can jam a screwdriver in someone's eyes better lock down engineering!!!

ai's retarded get new AI

Perakp · Post by **Perakp** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:14 am #46631

Intigracy wrote:Why was there a lockdown added that bolts you in.
Who thought this was a good idea?

Captain doesn't want anyone to steal his antique laser gun so they had an anti-burglary system installed.

If anything, the case should just straight up be openable with a captain ID.
Regardless of access levels, only the gold IDs should open it.

Slight flaw in the anti-burglary system, yes.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:22 am #46633

Intigracy wrote:Why was there a lockdown added that bolts you in.
Who thought this was a good idea?

Because don't take that shiny gun at roundstart, you powergaming jackass, its value is in its unruined beauty.

ThatSlyFox · Post by **ThatSlyFox** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 1:49 pm #46659

Intigracy wrote: If anything, the case should just straight up be openable with a captain ID.
Regardless of access levels, only the gold IDs should open it.

This should be a thing. Why anyone thinks a bolting door is going to stop a powergaming captain is beyond me.

Tip and Trick: Standing in the door, shooting it quickly, and then moving back into the door prevents it from bolting. I imagine it would be even easier from the teleporter door.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:28 pm #46687

[powergaming intensifies]

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:57 pm #47127

I am a fan of the red alert unlock.

Allows the captain to get his gun when shit gets real, while preventing the captain from just smashing the case round start.

Spoiler:

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:04 pm #47129

But really its inferior to his egun.

Post by **MMMiracles** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:24 pm #47134

Its also the only gun on the station that recharges by itself without RnD.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:00 pm #47141

A recharging laser would be great if lasers weren't crap or if the recharge was quicker than running to the nearest weapons charger (plenty from department sec)

It's the same reason disablers don't get used, both require you to land five hits whereas a taser takes one

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:07 pm #47143

Malkevin wrote:A recharging laser would be great if lasers weren't crap or if the recharge was quicker than running to the nearest weapons charger (plenty from department sec)

It's the same reason disablers don't get used, both require you to land five hits whereas a taser takes one

Indeed. It is why most players, at least in my day, instantly distrusted a captain who took the laser. It was pretty standard for the AI to bolt the captain's room and alert the station he took it, and most of the time people called the captain an idiot for taking it. Was good damage control.

It meant they knew enough to know it was there and how to get it, and thus could cause damage, but were shitty enough players to think that an 'infinite' laser was worth carrying compared to the egun. At best he was a terrible powergamer and at worst he was an idiot looking to troll.

Post by **lumipharon** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:10 pm #47145

There are plenty of things you need to shoot that can't be stunned.
Blobs, xenos, mechs, rogue borgs blah blah.

The lockdown is good though, it lets the crew publicly shame the condom for stealing his own gun FNR. Take that shit in emergencies only, it's a prized antique.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:22 pm #47151

lumipharon wrote:There are plenty of things you need to shoot that can't be stunned.
Blobs, xenos, mechs, rogue borgs blah blah.

And thats when you switch your egun to laser mode

ExplosiveCrate · Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:28 pm

Good luck getting a chance to recharge the egun if things go to shit. And they have gone to shit, which is why you're using your laser gun in the first place.

The recharging laser is actually handy if you're say, in a cult/rev situation. You won't get a chance to recharge very often if at all and unlike stuns bolts, lasers burns are slightly permanent. They won't go away unless you get some medicine, which is probably all gone by that time.

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:50 pm #47172

Stealing a charger is actually pretty easy. And if you lost control of areas with a charger you are fucked, as it meant you lost the bridge and security and the revs now have access to ranged stuns whie you don't. You may win with a surprise assassination of the last head, but the captain's laser's recharge won't exactly help you do that as it charges so slow, its more useful for short bursts of activity. Versus aliens and borgs if you don't kill your target with your first barrage you are probably dead anyway.

The captain's laser is arguably more useful for people who don't have easy access to chargers and have some other method of incapacitating people in a normal traitor round.

The recharge feature seems useful, one can obviously imagine specific scenarios where it may be helpful, but the problem is there is generally not a time when the station is in a state to make it useful for a captain.

Raven776 · Post by **Raven776** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:54 pm #47176

Blob, carp hunting, xeno blasting, and I think the laser does more damage when its charges are full than an Egun does, as well as being a rechargeable laser that you can dual wield with an egun/taser for maximum glassing of bad guys.

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:01 pm #47177

Raven776 wrote:Blob, carp hunting, xeno blasting, and I think the laser does more damage when its charges are full than an Egun does, as well as being a rechargeable laser that you can dual wield with an egun/taser for maximum glassing of bad guys.

In carp waiting for a recharge is less efficient than walking to a charger, and because carp are mobs there is nothing preventing you from doing this. Same with blob, except the blob may try to stop you, however if you are being harassed by the blob the charge is too slow to help you. In most situations you can head to a charger versus xeno, if they took sec you can use one of the security outpost chargers and if they chase you the recharge on the laser won't help. And with dual wielding you are better off using two eguns as you will maintain maximum utility, as you can switch the laser to stun in case you run out of laser shots.

The charge is not as impressive as people seem to think it is, it will not help you in a situation where you run out of shots and are in imminent danger, especially because it can't stun.

Intigracy · Post by **Intigracy** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:04 pm #47178

.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:13 pm #47181

Raven776 wrote:Blob, carp hunting, xeno blasting, and I think the laser does more damage when its charges are full than an Egun does, as well as being a rechargeable laser that you can dual wield with an egun/taser for maximum glassing of bad guys.

Nope, both are ten shots with 20 damage per shot.
Although you usually end up with an 11th shot due to charging.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:15 am #47220

Malkevin wrote:
Raven776 wrote:Blob, carp hunting, xeno blasting, and I think the laser does more damage when its charges are full than an Egun does, as well as being a rechargeable laser that you can dual wield with an egun/taser for maximum glassing of bad guys.
Nope, both are ten shots with 20 damage per shot.
Although you usually end up with an 11th shot due to charging.

This is something that people don't seem to realize. I've had officers tell me that an egun is "weaker" than a laser even though they're functionally identical except for the egun having a toggleable stun.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:24 am #47248

The Laser Gun has a additional two shots.

I tried to buff it to around 20 or 15 shots, but 12 it is.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:10 am #47255

I don't mind because lasers are actually really robust, it's just that nobody knows how easily you can crit people if you don't have cambodia tier lag with them so they spam electrodes.

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:08 am #47269

You are assuming they will just let you hit them.

ExplosiveCrate · Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:40 am

If they're unaware and unarmed you can get a good 2 shots in before they try to run away. By that time they've been slowed by damage and you should be able to finish the job assuming you have a clear shot.

firecage · Post by **firecage** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:46 pm #47349

>Captains gets punished for taking their OWN BLOODY gun.

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:49 pm #47377

firecage wrote:>Captains gets punished for taking their OWN BLOODY gun.

It was meant to be a stationary objective to distinguish it from stealing the captain's jumpsuit. Fluff wise he has no reason to take his antique gun every round.

Delicious wrote:I've always wondered, why can't the captain unlock his own case? You could say it wasn't built with a door because it was designed to permanently hold and protect his antique weapon, but from a gameplay perspective it makes sense for him to be able to unlock it. It's a perfectly functional weapon that comes in damn handy and is ironically better than any of the "modern" lasers that start on the station.

It is to permanently hold and protect his antique weapon in fluff gameplay wise its meant to be a stationary secure objective. Mechanically it is better than a laser but infinitely worse than an e-gun, and the captain on an average round would end up either not using it or use it to kill people. It is very poor at doing much besides randomly griffing people because almost every situation where lasers would be useful you will not need the charge unless the speed was dramatically increased.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 3:56 pm #47378

The Captain's Laser is good for drawn out battle's of attrition where opertunities to resupply and recharge your weapons are few. Drawn our Rev rounds come to mind.

The Laser being protected by a unopenable glass case, and a alarm system that trips when its broken, implies the Captain (prior to the shift start anyway) did not want it to be easily taken.

In my opinion I like to think the Captain's Laser gun is a extremely unique, highly prized, very old weapon that is highly sought after. Why would he want to break it out and permanently damage its value at the start of a shift? I can understand if your evacuating the station or cultists are breaking down the doors but taking it at shift starts is, imo, dumb.

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:09 pm #47381

Lases are mostly worthless against rev, unless for some reason you have a hard lockdown on medbay, security, and cargo to prevent the revs from getting stuns or reviving the people you kill. And if you have those three departments its almost impossible for rev to have the critical mass that prevents you from just stunning a group of people and mass executing them.

As long as the number of people you can hit with a full taser charge is larger than the group you are fighting lasers are inferior in kill potential. Most players could probably manage 5 kills at once with a taser where as a laser struggles to kill one person who knows how to dodge.

The one exception is shooting through glass, which will almost certainly be happening next to a charger.

ExplosiveCrate · Mon Dec 01, 2014 4:10 pm

I'm pretty sure I've seen the case opened before without having to smash the whole thing. What's up with that?

Intigracy · Post by **Intigracy** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:29 pm #47398

.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:05 pm #47407

Baystation (and maybe vg) lets you unlock it

Spacemanspark · Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:07 pm

Malkevin wrote:Baystation (and maybe vg) lets you unlock it

Sadly you can't break the case open on those servers. Paracode has this too.
Perhaps being able to unlock it legally only on code red without breaking it and triggering alarms everywhere?

iyaerP · Post by **iyaerP** » Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:23 pm #47616

Or just let the captain's ID unlock it normally. There are plenty of times when everything has gone to shit and it ISN'T code red.

I mostly point this out because a lot of the time I might otherwise set code red, there are no other surviving heads to swipe with me to GET code red.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:12 pm #47678

make it work like the safe

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:19 pm #47681

iyaerP wrote:Or just let the captain's ID unlock it normally. There are plenty of times when everything has gone to shit and it ISN'T code red.

I mostly point this out because a lot of the time I might otherwise set code red, there are no other surviving heads to swipe with me to GET code red.

Then it sucks for the captain then doesn't it? I am not worried about the captain's convenience frankly. Bureaucratic bullshit to get the gun makes sense and is thematic especially because he can easily undo the lockdown. What I think is lost by forcing a code red is preventing anyone from sneakily taking the laser by swiping the captain's ID or impersonating him.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:48 pm #47689

dezzmont wrote:
iyaerP wrote:Or just let the captain's ID unlock it normally. There are plenty of times when everything has gone to shit and it ISN'T code red.

I mostly point this out because a lot of the time I might otherwise set code red, there are no other surviving heads to swipe with me to GET code red.
Then it sucks for the captain then doesn't it? I am not worried about the captain's convenience frankly. Bureaucratic bullshit to get the gun makes sense and is thematic especially because he can easily undo the lockdown. What I think is lost by forcing a code red is preventing anyone from sneakily taking the laser by swiping the captain's ID or impersonating him.

You're forgetting that the gun itself is the captain's possession. There should not be "bureaucratic bullshit" between him and his own gun any more than there should be between the CE and his boots.

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:58 pm #47715

Perhaps the fluff should change. The laser being something the captain can just have was never intended in its design. It was a stationary objective and emergency tool that he was supposed to value more as an heirloom than a gun.

After all, current fluff says that it is some amazing artifact, one that people would kill to research. Why the hell does a nanotrasen private citizen own that?

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:09 am #47718

I always thought it was some rare alien weapon dug up on the asteroid or found somewhere, or a one of a kind weapon built by an autistic savant.

Captain gets to keep it as his because he gets all the shinies and is a massive comdom

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:51 am #47728

WHAT IF

GUYS

GUYS LISTEN

WHAT IF THE CASE UNLOCKED DURING RED ALERT AND ALLOWED THE CAP TO TAKE HIS GUN

THIS WOULD ENCOURAGE CAPTAINS TO USE RED ALERT MORE (HOLY FUCK FINALLY) AND ALSO BLOCK THEM FROM DOING IT AT ROUNDSTART, BECAUSE RED ALERT AT ROUNDSTART FOR NO REASON IS MAXIMUM JOBBAN

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:24 am #47741

Malkevin wrote:I always thought it was some rare alien weapon dug up on the asteroid or found somewhere, or a one of a kind weapon built by an autistic savant.

Captain gets to keep it as his because he gets all the shinies and is a massive comdom

Look at the item description text again. It literally says "Space Station 13" on its side and has a motif of a station exploding on it. how this interacts with the idea of being "antique" is moderately hilarious but ya know.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:30 am #47768

As the one who added the lockdown feature, I'm of the opinion that it's not something the Captain should be carrying around on a regular basis. You're a comdom if you do this. If we have to change the fluff to suit this then so be it; It's just fluff.

Breaking it out during emergencies is fine. I never really thought about how that would be handled. The idea of having it unlockable with his ID during red alert seems reasonable to me.

Hornygranny · Post by **Hornygranny** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:35 am #47769

I've always been of the opinion that it should either be something the Captain carries because it's better than an egun somehow, or a useless trophy that's locked up for sentimental value.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:37 am #47770

Maybe not completely useless, but it can at least be made into something that's not a straight up upgrade to everything. Something like cutting it's cell size in half or so.

Raven776 · Post by **Raven776** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:45 am #47772

If I ever break it out as a captain it's because I'm going full out xeno hunting...

I mean literally going full out. I get some sec officer to be my jungle guide in this wonderful world of spacestation and recharge my guns for me in between carp/spider/xenomorph kills.

Feretal · Post by **Feretal** » Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:49 am #47787

Uhhhh, I may be mistaken but if you just use the fire alarm you can disable the lockdown. Including the bolted doors.

mrpain · Post by **mrpain** » Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:01 am #48352

Saegrimr wrote:If the AI refuses to let you out if you directly order it to, that's probably breaking its laws and likely server rule 1. Thats like bolting the warden down for handing out eguns from the armory. Its YOUR gun, whether you want to ruin your perfectly good display case and dirty up your beautiful antique laser or not is a different matter entirely.

If you're busting it down and tell the AI you plan to laser some nerds of course its gonna keep you locked in, thats' just stupid of you for telling an asimov AI you intend to harm people.

If he's screaming over coms about how he's going to kill someone with it or I'm damn well convinced he's going to kill someone with it (I.E. I just observed him killing someone else) and I'm an Asimov silicon I kind of feel obligated to contain him until he removes his means of killing someone from his person (obviously meaning taking his weapons out of his bag) so I know for sure he is far less likely to kill someone.