2k18 /pol/

Super Aggro Crag · Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:50 pm

Bottom post of the previous page:

That's really interesting to see.

Rustledjimm · Post by **Rustledjimm** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:40 pm #459614

The legal advice showed what everyone knew already.

May's deal is Brexit in Name Only. In that we will still follow EU laws while having no say etc. It delivers on nothing the Leavers want and the Remainers aren't happy because we still lose many benefits of being in the EU while gaining nothing. Most importantly we lose the ability to have our voice heard on EU laws, we are actually losing sovereignty with Brexit.

Super Aggro Crag · Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:16 pm

Are you guys gonna do something about that?

ShadowDimentio · Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:30 pm

>May managed to craft that makes nobody except the EU happy

Imagine my shock

Rustledjimm · Post by **Rustledjimm** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:56 pm #459639

except not even the EU are happy.

They would rather the UK just stayed in the EU.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:20 pm #459645

Why would the EU be unhappy about it?
The deal is massively in their favour.

Unless it's because...

"Are you guys gonna do something about that?"
Our Parliament will vote on it next Tuesday.
In all likelihood Parliament should vote it down because neither the leavers nor remainers are happy about the deal.

Which means come early next year when the Article 50 period is up we either leave with the hardest of Hard Brexits with the WTO deal, or we say fuck it and forget this ever happened

Rustledjimm · Post by **Rustledjimm** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:22 pm #459649

You think the EU are happy that the UK is leaving?

Super Aggro Crag · Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:38 pm

Why wouldn't they be?

Why would they be?

Incomptinence · Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:39 pm

Well yeah I mean they no longer need to get off their fat arses in brussels to block propositions with any benefit to the UK and they have greater consensus on the votes uk representatives opposed.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newsto ... ssels.html

The rest of the EU basically despised the UK to the point the representatives were token.

As for any fake democracy less disent means everyone must be happier so this will look better propaganda wise for the EU in the long term.

ShadowDimentio · Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:28 pm

Rustledjimm wrote:You think the EU are happy that the UK is leaving?

They weren't happy that Britain was leaving. Good thing Britain isn't leaving any more!

Rustledjimm · Post by **Rustledjimm** » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:22 am #459739

Except the UK only opposed 4-5% of all EU legislation brought forward.

95% of the time the UK voted to pass all legislation.

Where do people get this bullshit that the UK kept trying to block the EU and that the EU was passing laws specifically to the detriment of the UK? Reading the fucking Torygraph? Nice one.

Before you start to froth at the mouth here are the facts https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-be ... influence/

Incomptinence · Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:12 am

Okay I was wrong but still stands you were part of a rubber stamp on an assembly line where no was not an option.

It is still through and through a terrible EU.

IkeTG · Post by **IkeTG** » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:49 am #459810

[youtube]7KBqzgL3V8A[/youtube]

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:16 am #459817

Well EU citizens are gonna need a residency permit such as worker visa to stay in the UK starting in 2021. Low-skilled immigrants will also be greatly reduced.

Isn't that what brexiters wanted?

FantasticFwoosh · Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:22 am

Rustledjimm wrote:The legal advice showed what everyone knew already.

May's deal is Brexit in Name Only. In that we will still follow EU laws while having no say etc. It delivers on nothing the Leavers want and the Remainers aren't happy because we still lose many benefits of being in the EU while gaining nothing. Most importantly we lose the ability to have our voice heard on EU laws, we are actually losing sovereignty with Brexit.

Grazyn wrote:Well EU citizens are gonna need a residency permit such as worker visa to stay in the UK starting in 2021. Low-skilled immigrants will also be greatly reduced.

Isn't that what brexiters wanted?

No, it was meant to protect our sovereignty and ability to act by ourselves by duking it out with the EU to negotiate out getting out of the Union because they were never going to concede with what we wanted while we were in it. Europeans are completely hoodwinked by globalist amalgamous political interests of building blocs and ethnically displacing its own people with no regard to individuality or identity.

With the agreement even if we completely frazzle into hostility with the EU we can't do anything unless the EU as a entity collapses totally.
Parliment Mood:

Spoiler:

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Thu Dec 06, 2018 11:33 am #459856

If they can't reach a deal all the agreements with the EU will be automatically voided once the deadline is up. Immigration, trade, travel of goods and people, everything will be null. Isn't that the total sovereignity you wanted?

FantasticFwoosh · Thu Dec 06, 2018 12:06 pm

A no-deal is walking away from the table, which is going to hurt and be the most escalatory option, not just waiting for a deadline due to the divorce proceedings. Yes but its the extreme option at the minute and the EU is pressing us hard with love it (unconditionally forever) or bog off into the wilderness.

Initially walking in there was no idea that negotiations would turn out this way but the EU seems set to take as much as they can; already massive food stockpiles are being built up in the likelyhood of no-deal but there's still more that needs to be done to fill the economic void of the hole. Its the only soveriegn route to stick two fingers up at the EU at this moment.

I think Parliment should indict Theresa May of High Treason for trying to pass along the soverignty of the Queen over the union to the EU if the DUP can tactically collapse government, if it does get passed in parliment like they threatened to (just collapsing parliment, not treason) though unlikely. Because they will never prosecute Mrs.May in a EU supreme court.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:26 pm #459875

"This deal will make us your slaves! We refuse it!"
"Then what do you want?"
"We want things to stay exactly the same as before"
"This doesn't make any sense, and your brexiter voters won't like it anyway"
"Then we walk! Good riddance!"
"This will give you the worst possible deal ever as all the treaties become null"
"Evil EU wants to make an example out of us!"

FantasticFwoosh · Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:53 pm

The remainers and moderates in the middle's are the ones who want to still co-operate within the EU since as i just mentioned its a big economic gap to jump the barrel and go full no deal, with the preparations being made.

There are some pretty shitty clauses in there which have nothing particularly to do with Brexit but everything to do with inter-european co-operation like being shunted out of security intelligence which will basically mean we won't be notified of our own terrorist threats at the EU's leisure and obstructing our legal courts which of course have nothing to do with them at present.

Our position on soverignty was never up for grabs in the outlining agreement, the EU made counter demands for it in the deal.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:05 pm #459882

I don't see any reason why we should be forced to share our precious intelligence with a foreign country for free. That would be a violation of our sovereignty.

And I thought one of the arguments for Brexit was your fear of brown terrorists coming in from the EU? You should be safe now.

Super Aggro Crag · Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:17 pm

Im not even reading fwoosh's posts

Rustledjimm · Post by **Rustledjimm** » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:20 pm #459914

I shouldn't have read them. They hurt my head.

Also the government itself admitted we had sovereignty even while inside the EU.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:53 pm #459919

I would've thought that we would have intel sharing through NATO and InterPol

Rustledjimm · Post by **Rustledjimm** » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:12 pm #459924

Not all EU members are in NATO and Interpol information sharing is not done as freely or easily as within the EU.

Nearly every country in the world is in Interpol and some are far more corrupt than those within the EU or NATO so not all sensitive information gets shared on interpol networks.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:53 pm #459931

NATO does certainly include some intelligence sharing aimed at counter-terrorism but everything else that requires EU membership will be voided. I mean, even EU air traffic won't be allowed in the UK in the case of "hard brexit" (deadline reached without agreement), why would intelligence sharing be left untouched?

Post by **oranges** » Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:12 pm #460032

Incomptinence wrote:Okay I was wrong .

wow this thread acheived something

XSI · Post by **XSI** » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:36 am #460073

The easy solution is to take every single topic and reach an agreement on a per-topic basis.
Airspace stuff? Make a treaty that governs that so airspace isn't a problem anymore
Inteligence sharing? Make a treaty for that so that counter-terrorism can continue working
Border stuff? Make a treaty just for only that topic so that is one less problem to deal with
Fishing stuff? Again, make a treaty regarding it
That way life can continue with the things both sides can agree on like sharing intel on known terrorist movement. But because the EU wants to put on pressure, they will deny any 'partial deals', thereby screwing over themselves a little in order to screw the UK a lot

Or maybe the whole French protests thing can pull France out of the EU, then we'd be seeing more fireworks
The French protests are interesting either way, left and right are both protesting. Antifa, ethnic nationalists and anarchists have somehow managed to team up to protest the government and they had a combined list of 20-30 demands. I don't think any government fucked up so badly in recent history that people across all parts of politics are joining together to demand a change

ShadowDimentio · Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:15 am

>Britain no deal's the EU
>EU refuses to share terrorist data with Britain
>Britain is forced to completely shut down its borders for their own safety

All according to plan...

Rustledjimm · Post by **Rustledjimm** » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:40 am #460096

I don't think you can do "partial" deals on an international scale.

This isn't us negotiating a divorce here it's a country within a Supra-International organisation trying to break off. There are so many intermingling issues, laws which cover numerous areas etc. etc. You can't just do it bit by bit.

Nobody said this would be easy (except for Leave vote just before the referendum but they were lying as per).

ShadowDimentio · Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:57 am

>You can't just do partial deals

...Yes you can. Literally every country does.

lntigracy · Post by **lntigracy** » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:28 am #460109

Time for French revolution part quatre

Cik · Post by **Cik** » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:50 am #460117

i for one, am ready to recognize the french revolutionary government II: paris commune boogaloo.

or, at least we can all agree that watching people flip cars is momentarily entertaining.

but i agree with their cause, macron's a fucking moron who needs an attitude adjustment.

XSI · Post by **XSI** » Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:24 am #460141

There used to be treaties about individual things and that worked fine
Then the EU showed up and combined them all, adding on a layer of attempting to unify europe on top

And now we suddenly can't do individual things anymore because the old treaties were combined and NOPE no going back ever?
That's bullshit and you know it. It's not that it can't be done, it's that they do not want it done. Because then they'd signal to other countries that they'll be reasonable and try to make things work out if you leave. For the EU to survive, they need to strike fear in the other countries so they don't follow it.
Britain must burn for their agenda, and they'll do what they can to make it so
The EU knows that if people understand that they could just have all the good without their parasitic layer on top, then they'll all want that deal

And I'm fairly sure the British government also doesn't want it done because that would mean they actually have to do some work and try to get shit done

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:29 am #460162

Or they could just fold to our demands and save their people from unnecessary suffering

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:44 pm #460205

Did the mafia assassinate Grazyn and take over his account?

A few months ago he was waiting for an italexit

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:04 pm #460219

I'm still waiting for it because that's what the current government promised to get elected. They did a 180 on it and now the plan seems to be "pretend to want to stay in the EU but antagonize them until they kick us out"

Rustledjimm · Post by **Rustledjimm** » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:18 pm #460222

Perhaps grazyn realises while the EU is miles from perfect its not actively malicious.

Or he could come out and say he does believe they're malicious now but whatever.

Re:brexit they're just trying to get the best deal for EU citizens which UK citizens won't be anymore if brexit goes through.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:26 pm #460223

I think the EU has always be a fancy club with the purpose of doing the interests of certain countries, while others like Italy were getting the short end of the stick. But the UK was the odd one with incredible privileges compared to the others so I'm never getting over them playing the victim.

Incomptinence · Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:46 pm

It isn't actually democratic. That translates to can turn malicious (not MY POLITICAL OPPONENT IS THE WORST GUIYZ malicious) whenever it chooses with no culpability and no brakes.

Rustledjimm · Post by **Rustledjimm** » Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:12 pm #460227

You know nearly 95% of UK law and legislation is made by unelected officials right.

What you thought the 12-15 Acts of Parliament that pass every year are the only laws passed in the whole country? No most powers are given over to other bodies to set legislation and law and they certainly aren't elected.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:24 pm #460272

Doesn't make that right either

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:12 pm #460291

Hand wringing lefty centrist youtube pundit Sargon of Akkad had his Patreon removed today.

Looks like they really are deplatforming everyone with a divisive opinion these days.

Super Aggro Crag · Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:36 pm

Nuck figgers

Rustledjimm · Post by **Rustledjimm** » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:17 pm #460307

Anonmare wrote:Doesn't make that right either

If parliament had to make every single law/legislation it would take forever and be retarded.

That is why they delegate the power to organisations with people who have experience and knowledge of that particular area. So shit can actually get done by people who know what they're talking about.

Super Aggro Crag · Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:09 pm

Remember pearl harbor

Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:12 pm

Super Aggro Crag wrote:Remember pearl harbor

remember the alamo? *crack* *sippp*

XSI · Post by **XSI** » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:18 pm #460343

Delegating the power to make laws is a pretty terrible and bad idea for many reasons. Most of them obvious

That's the one thing you should expect government to do, it's literally the reason government exists in the modern world
I don't have any idea how anyone would deem such a system acceptable

Consider that the UK, in 2018 tried to:
Ban Encryption
Require ID for internet porn
Require ID to buy anything sharper than a butter knife

And probably much more that I can't be arsed to look up, how is this in any way a good system? Clearly things are not working as they should
UK law is a joke on the international scale, 1984 has been taken as a manual, not as a warning. And somehow this is still okay?
I'm not going to bother looking for it, but just imagine that comic of the dog going 'this is fine' in a burning building

Rustledjimm · Post by **Rustledjimm** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:32 am #460398

I don't understand what you're trying to say.

First you say why governments delegating certain legislation and regulation making is bad then you list reasons why it's good governments don't get to decide on everything.

Takeguru · Post by **Takeguru** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 6:12 am #460404

On Sargon: I don't quite understand why they would deplatform him if he wasn't breaking any TOS
Alex Jones was and got kicked for it on the social media, sure
But Sargon wasn't in violation of Patreon's TOS

XSI · Post by **XSI** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:40 am #460426

What I'm saying is that I should be in charge of everything so I can tell idiots everywhere to stop trying to fuck up the internet and other things

Also that experts should be advisors who are listened to for technical details, realism and at times moral quandaries, not people told to just make the laws and then report back later

Rustledjimm · Post by **Rustledjimm** » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:09 pm #460698

Because politicians are known for listening to expert opinion.