Chef CQC combat is beyond broken and needs fixing

[Trickster]

I can understand that having a cheesy movie reference in the game is for the better flavourwise, but as a chef antag it gives you so much power in what you can do unarmed, when you have access to cleavers and other very robust weapons as well. If you do want to keep the reference, or change it for something else that is more role-appropiate, replacing it for a cutting-edge buff to melee weapons or something of the like would be far more enjoyable.

Or, in my humble opinion, remove it entirely. It is quite bad.

[Anuv]

Agreed give them carp

[Shadowflame909]

I can understand that having a cheesy movie reference in the game is for the better flavourwise, but as a chef antag it gives you so much power in what you can do unarmed, when you have access to cleavers and other very robust weapons as well. If you do want to keep the reference, or change it for something else that is more role-appropiate, replacing it for a cutting-edge buff to melee weapons or something of the like would be far more enjoyable.

Or, in my humble opinion, remove it entirely. It is quite bad.

I don't agree but I don't disagree. I feel like it needs to be restricted entirely to the kitchen as in... No theatre, No Bar backroom. No bar, not even botany. Just literally if you get tided in the kitchen. You can beat the crap out of your tiders.

I may just be unrobust but, even with CQC. When I accidentally brutally beat up a tider whilst trying to knock him out with cqc. 5 more tiders came in, deconstructed my tables and started spearing me and trying to space me. It wasn't even REVS!

It was bagil though.

[BeeSting12]

I don't like this idea and I never did like it. A chef shouldn't get a traitor item in just one location, it doesn't even make sense.

[MMMiracles]

if you don't want CQC'd, don't siege the kitchen

[Farquaar]

It was bagil though.

Understandable

I don't like this idea and I never did like it. A chef shouldn't get a traitor item in just one location, it doesn't even make sense.

Do you play chef often, Beesting? I’m not asking this question in a malicious way, but just to understand where you’re coming from.

If you do, then I’m sure you’d agree that being a good chef is difficult. Most of the time you have to do the botanist’s job as well, which depending on the station can have you running back and forth like a madman trying to produce special dishes in a timely manner. And all while doing this, some exceptional individual decides “im hungrey” and climbs into your kitchen to harass you and eat your ingredients/steal your tools. If you pull out your knife/cleaver, you’re liable to getting disarmed and killed by the intruder because escalation (indeed, this happened a few times before I discovered CQC)

Having an unarmed option lets you play chef without worrying about the tiders, whether they be assistants or otherwise.

[Denton]

A single foam name deletes the whole kitchen on any map (even better if the PR gets merged that restricts CQC to just the kitchen). Even if you'e no antag, an IED lance, taser and so on will take chefs down easily.

[somerandomguy]

A single foam name deletes the whole kitchen

what

[Yakumo_Chen]

I would assume he means a chem hellfoam grenade

[Anonmare]

An acid smoke would be more effective for destroying all the equipment, but that's off-topic

I thought it *was* restricted to the kitchen?

[Shadowflame909]

An acid smoke would be more effective for destroying all the equipment, but that's off-topic

I thought it *was* restricted to the kitchen?

It can be used in the bar and bar backroom. On botany as well on some maps.

So usually as a bartender, you'll see a griefer chef cqcing your customers and the clown for no reason. Also if they're a traitor. You're going to be the first person who gets thrown in the gibber and there's nothing you can really do about it. If they aggro grip you before you realize they're doing it.

[Lumbermancer]

It's fine.

[Floiven]

An acid smoke would be more effective for destroying all the equipment, but that's off-topic

I thought it *was* restricted to the kitchen?

It can be used in the bar and bar backroom. On botany as well on some maps.

So usually as a bartender, you'll see a griefer chef cqcing your customers and the clown for no reason. Also if they're a traitor. You're going to be the first person who gets thrown in the gibber and there's nothing you can really do about it. If they aggro grip you before you realize they're doing it.

Beanbag rounds, apply directly to the forehead

[Shadowflame909]

An acid smoke would be more effective for destroying all the equipment, but that's off-topic

I thought it *was* restricted to the kitchen?

It can be used in the bar and bar backroom. On botany as well on some maps.

So usually as a bartender, you'll see a griefer chef cqcing your customers and the clown for no reason. Also if they're a traitor. You're going to be the first person who gets thrown in the gibber and there's nothing you can really do about it. If they aggro grip you before you realize they're doing it.

Beanbag rounds, apply directly to the forehead

THE CHEF HAS GIBBED ALL MY CUSTOMERS THEY'VE ALL BEEN KO'D AND ARE NOW DEAD HOLY SHIT WHAT THE FUCK IS A LAME PEA SHOOTER GONNA DO THEY'RE GONE.

[Denton]

Let's all hope the PR that restricts Chef CQC to just the kitchen gets merged

[Lumbermancer]

Let's hope not.

[BeeSting12]

I don't like this idea and I never did like it. A chef shouldn't get a traitor item in just one location, it doesn't even make sense.

Do you play chef often, Beesting? I’m not asking this question in a malicious way, but just to understand where you’re coming from.

If you do, then I’m sure you’d agree that being a good chef is difficult. Most of the time you have to do the botanist’s job as well, which depending on the station can have you running back and forth like a madman trying to produce special dishes in a timely manner. And all while doing this, some exceptional individual decides “im hungrey” and climbs into your kitchen to harass you and eat your ingredients/steal your tools. If you pull out your knife/cleaver, you’re liable to getting disarmed and killed by the intruder because escalation (indeed, this happened a few times before I discovered CQC)

Having an unarmed option lets you play chef without worrying about the tiders, whether they be assistants or otherwise.

No, I don't play chef, but I have done it a few times. You can use the shutters to smash tiders, there are knives to kill them with, and that's just what's in your kitchen. You can still call security. If you need CQC to defend your kitchen then git gud lmao. This wasn't even added to help chefs, it was meant to be a funny meme. There's no reasoning in the original PR or conversation on actual balance implications.

[Lumbermancer]

If you need CQC to defend your kitchen then git gud lmao.

See, I'd rather put shittlers to sleep and throw them in disposals, instead cut up with a knife.

[Zarniwoop]

That's goofcode for ya. Stop merging his garbage. Pretty sure the only reason chef cqc was even kept is because he PR'd an even worse idea - chaplain monk cqc - alongside it, making chef cqc look tame in comparison.

[BeeSting12]

That's goofcode for ya. Stop merging his garbage.

It was Naksu who made it get your facts right instead of immediately jumping to blame goofball for everything you hate. https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/35417

If you need CQC to defend your kitchen then git gud lmao.

See, I'd rather put shittlers to sleep and throw them in disposals, instead cut up with a knife.

Window crush as they jump on the table. Aggressive grab. Drag and drop to disposals. It's not hard and using CQC is just easy mode for that.

[Zarniwoop]

That's goofcode for ya. Stop merging his garbage.

It was Naksu who made it get your facts right instead of immediately jumping to blame goofball for everything you hate. https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/35417

Goofcode is just a euphemism for shit code, relax, you spaz.

[Lumbermancer]

I couldn't window crush, I was in the cold room.

[Daxxed]

I agree that playing chef for the CQC is bad but if it gets nerfed even less people will play it if any..
Chef has literally 0 powergame, sure he has a sharp knife but that means nothing with stunbased combat.
You are just an assistant with access to the kitchen backroom and the duty to feed the crew/make special orders.
If the bartender gets a shotgun why can’t the chef have a melee range two click stun, assuming the target is NOT moving.
If you remove chef’s non lethal control it will just lead to more pointless cleavering, and thus escalation and or pointless bans.
Main reason shitters that grief play chef and use the cqc for it is because the role ends up as one of the last taken.
You wouldn’t even pick it for a better pay than assistant, as they make the same...

[BeeSting12]

That's goofcode for ya. Stop merging his garbage.

It was Naksu who made it get your facts right instead of immediately jumping to blame goofball for everything you hate. https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/35417

Goofcode is just a euphemism for shit code, relax, you spaz.

>his garbage
>just a euphemism

[bman]

LMAO

[Zarniwoop]

That's goofcode for ya. Stop merging his garbage.

It was Naksu who made it get your facts right instead of immediately jumping to blame goofball for everything you hate. https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/35417

Goofcode is just a euphemism for shit code, relax, you spaz.

>his garbage
>just a euphemism

His/her, whatever I don't care what gender Naksu is. What is this, the PC police? The monk cqc that was merged at the same time and was such crap that it made chefs cqc look acceptable, however, was coded by goof. So two utter trash cqc PRs merged at the same time, one by goof, one probably by one of his many alt accounts.

[WarbossLincoln]

A couple thoughts:

Bar Backroom should be removed, that's unnecessary. Bar is probably fine because fights often happen there. The Bar is a shared space by the chef and bartender. Bartender has a shotgun, chef has CQC, they can defend it together.
Theater can probably go too even though on Meta the chef goes through the theater to leave the kitchen.

Quite a lot of this thread can be summed up as "ahelp this shit when you see it". There's a ton of shitty behavior and rule breaking that goes unopposed on /tg/, esp bagil, because no one reports it. If you're the bartender and you see the chef griefing and robusting every single customer you get ahelp it. If admins decide not to intervene, handle it IC. Tell Sec what's going on, if sec doesn't show up in a timely fashion go get some buckshot and toss his body in his own gibber.

Similarly if you beat up a tider who jumped the table into the kitchen and 5 assistants tear the kitchen down and kill you with spears, ahelp it. The line between IC conflict of getting into a fistfight with a table jumper and getting gibbed by 5 griefers isn't very fine.

[Zarniwoop]

Agreed, cook should just ahelp it if they can't handle the kitchen tide. Remove their traitor item and handle it normally.

[Daxxed]

toss his body in his own gibber.

This server would be a way better place if permanent removal from the round wasnt the first thing people escalate to.
How about you kill them and leave them to be cloned by someone else, if they do continue to harrass you afterwards then ahelp.
Non antags should never be allowed to permanently take someone out, unless its an obvious ling or something.

But hey thats just my opinion and lately I only play on Terry so Basilmens will probably disagree.

[Gamarr]

It escalates to murder because they're bored and have little else to do.

[WarbossLincoln]

toss his body in his own gibber.

This server would be a way better place if permanent removal from the round wasnt the first thing people escalate to.
How about you kill them and leave them to be cloned by someone else, if they do continue to harrass you afterwards then ahelp.
Non antags should never be allowed to permanently take someone out, unless its an obvious ling or something.

But hey thats just my opinion and lately I only play on Terry so Basilmens will probably disagree.

Uh, in my example it's not the first thing I suggested doing.

>chef attacks everyone in sight and doesn't get robusted
>no OOC action deemed necessary
>Call security, security doesn't respond
>chef is still robusting random people 4NR
>take him out

>guy jumps kitchen table
>chef beats him up
>4-5 greyshits decide to murder him cause lol escalation
>gib them if you manage to survive somehow

Edit: accidental double post

Agreed, cook should just ahelp it if they can't handle the kitchen tide. Remove their traitor item and handle it normally.

I would be cool with limiting it to kitchen and cold room only. The chef gets fucked with more than botany when they shit up the station with cancer plants.

[BeeSting12]

Non antags should never be allowed to permanently take someone out, unless its an obvious ling or something.

only siths deal in absolutes

[Denton]

Non antags should never be allowed to permanently take someone out, unless its an obvious ling or something.

I generally agree with that, but every once in a while you run into ""people"" like Polina Kierstan when no admins are online.

[somerandomguy]

That's goofcode for ya. Stop merging his garbage.

It was Naksu who made it get your facts right instead of immediately jumping to blame goofball for everything you hate. https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/35417

Goofcode is just a euphemism for shit code, relax, you spaz.

>his garbage
>just a euphemism

His/her, whatever I don't care what gender Naksu is. What is this, the PC police? The monk cqc that was merged at the same time and was such crap that it made chefs cqc look acceptable, however, was coded by goof. So two utter trash cqc PRs merged at the same time, one by goof, one probably by one of his many alt accounts.

The point is you assumed it was made by goof
>>>>>>>implying a maintainer is goof's alt
>>>>>>>on a service that bans for having alts

[Zarniwoop]

I didn't imply it, I declared it. You're probably an alt too if you're disagreeing with me.

[BeeSting12]

I didn't imply it, I declared it. You're probably an alt too if you're disagreeing with me.

are you trolling right now?

[somerandomguy]

I didn't imply it, I declared it. You're probably an alt too if you're disagreeing with me.

are you trolling right now?

crap I got baited so hard

[obscolene]

That's goofcode for ya. Stop merging his garbage.

It was Naksu who made it get your facts right instead of immediately jumping to blame goofball for everything you hate. https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/35417

Goofcode is just a euphemism for shit code, relax, you spaz.

>his garbage
>just a euphemism

His/her, whatever I don't care what gender Naksu is. What is this, the PC police? The monk cqc that was merged at the same time and was such crap that it made chefs cqc look acceptable, however, was coded by goof. So two utter trash cqc PRs merged at the same time, one by goof, one probably by one of his many alt accounts.

i came into this thread in full agreeance that chefs being able to instantly KO anyone while unarmed if they're in the kitchen is overpowered garbage, but you're such an enormous fagtard that i hope it stays in just to spite you

[bman]

That's goofcode for ya. Stop merging his garbage. Pretty sure the only reason chef cqc was even kept is because he PR'd an even worse idea - chaplain monk cqc - alongside it, making chef cqc look tame in comparison.

monk martial art is completely unrelated to cqc

[oranges]

who am I?

I'm just the cook

[Dr_bee]

That's goofcode for ya. Stop merging his garbage. Pretty sure the only reason chef cqc was even kept is because he PR'd an even worse idea - chaplain monk cqc - alongside it, making chef cqc look tame in comparison.

monk martial art is completely unrelated to cqc

It was also significantly more fun and significantly more broken. Nothing like training with your assistant disciples into become a shaolin monk who's spin kicks hit 5 times and even hit himself.

[RogueSteampunker]

I mean, literary just make it effective in the bar and kitchen, and maybe botany if you're feeling frisky. It shouldn't be that big of a deal to effectively narrow down an ability like this to the areas it was intialy meant to help protect in the age of kor escalation.