Economy System Feedback Thread

[Mickyan]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Most QMs have figured out by now that department budgets are free money for cargo if they can convince the other heads there's no reason for them to not give away their budget card

[Farquaar]

He doesn't spend his budget on funky outfits and materials for cool projects
He doesn't spend money bribing crewmembers to complete frivolous tasks that he could easily do himself
He doesn't pay his subordinates exorbitant monetary bonuses for doing exceptional work

Now I'm not telling you how to play a head of staff, but-

[Steelpoint]

Round start as a Head of Staff (more so when there's no RD) I'm getting harassed by Cargo staff to toss em my Dept Budget Card for the money.

I really think this economy system would work better if we had a way to actually spend the large sums of money. I can toss cargo staff 3000 credits for a crate but its very hacky and unreliable.

[Tlaltecuhtli]

thing is you are either a head and have at least 10K+ money or not head with 500 credits max before the round ends

[JStheguy]

Round start as a Head of Staff (more so when there's no RD) I'm getting harassed by Cargo staff to toss em my Dept Budget Card for the money.

I really think this economy system would work better if we had a way to actually spend the large sums of money. I can toss cargo staff 3000 credits for a crate but its very hacky and unreliable.

Yeah, we need more stuff for departments to actually throw their budgets at.
Actually, we need more actually meaningful ways for money to be used in general. Even something dumb like being able to just fuckin' jam holochips into dead power cells/APCs to charge them would at least give credits some extra value outside of purchasing cigarettes and space jeans.

[somerandomguy]

Round start as a Head of Staff (more so when there's no RD) I'm getting harassed by Cargo staff to toss em my Dept Budget Card for the money.

I really think this economy system would work better if we had a way to actually spend the large sums of money. I can toss cargo staff 3000 credits for a crate but its very hacky and unreliable.

Yeah, we need more stuff for departments to actually throw their budgets at.
Actually, we need more actually meaningful ways for money to be used in general. Even something dumb like being able to just fuckin' jam holochips into dead power cells/APCs to charge them would at least give credits some extra value outside of purchasing cigarettes and space jeans.

Make them edible but unhealthy, they are chips after all

[Yakumo_Chen]

I've started to see cargo ordering obscene amounts of guns every round and giving them to crew with budget cards. It's getting a little out of hand. It's annoying as security as the only thing worse then greytide is armed greytide. Greytide arguably armed better then security.

So far this really just screams classic "Goofcode goof refuses to maintain that goes completely out of hand" just like Freon crashing the server constantly and being nonsensical, hellish, and copyright infringement.

[JStheguy]

I've started to see cargo ordering obscene amounts of guns every round and giving them to crew with budget cards. It's getting a little out of hand. It's annoying as security as the only thing worse then greytide is armed greytide. Greytide arguably armed better then security.

So far this really just screams classic "Goofcode goof refuses to maintain that goes completely out of hand" just like Freon crashing the server constantly and being nonsensical, hellish, and copyright infringement.

I like the IDEA of the heads of staff being allowed to draw from the department budgets directly to make purchases, but we really need some method of accountability within the mechanics. I mean, you'd think Nanotrasen would at least bring an audit down on the dept head's ass if mysteriously the entire research budget is gone while cargo coincidentally buys a hundred gun crates they shouldn't be able to afford.

[Zarniwoop]

Maybe we should think of these things before merging a completely unfinished feature.

[Dr_bee]

Why we didnt copy goon's economy verbatim is beyond me, goondosh works real well.

[Steelpoint]

Big issue I feel needs to be addressed.

Buying normally restricted crates, in this scenario weapon and armour crates, using your personal ID card utterly bypasses the normal lockout restrictions.

This allows people, usually the RD and/or Cargo to bypass restrictions and be able to unlock weapon crates without needing a Security or higher level ID card.

I feel buying a crate with your own ID card should not override the standard access restrictions.

[Mickyan]

You mean direct paying for cargo? I was of the impression it was supposed to keep the regular access restrictions on top of the paying account so it's probably a bug

Original PR: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/40684

[Grazyn]

Big issue I feel needs to be addressed.

Buying normally restricted crates, in this scenario weapon and armour crates, using your personal ID card utterly bypasses the normal lockout restrictions.

This allows people, usually the RD and/or Cargo to bypass restrictions and be able to unlock weapon crates without needing a Security or higher level ID card.

I feel buying a crate with your own ID card should not override the standard access restrictions.

As I said in the PR, if you have the money you deserve the bonus of bypassing the ID lock. The problem are budget IDs that make money irrelevant and infinite

[somerandomguy]

Big issue I feel needs to be addressed.

Buying normally restricted crates, in this scenario weapon and armour crates, using your personal ID card utterly bypasses the normal lockout restrictions.

This allows people, usually the RD and/or Cargo to bypass restrictions and be able to unlock weapon crates without needing a Security or higher level ID card.

I feel buying a crate with your own ID card should not override the standard access restrictions.

As I said in the PR, if you have the money you deserve the bonus of bypassing the ID lock. The problem are budget IDs that make money irrelevant and infinite

*steals money from the vault and buys taser crate as assistant*

[DemonFiren]

Big issue I feel needs to be addressed.

Buying normally restricted crates, in this scenario weapon and armour crates, using your personal ID card utterly bypasses the normal lockout restrictions.

This allows people, usually the RD and/or Cargo to bypass restrictions and be able to unlock weapon crates without needing a Security or higher level ID card.

I feel buying a crate with your own ID card should not override the standard access restrictions.

As I said in the PR, if you have the money you deserve the bonus of bypassing the ID lock. The problem are budget IDs that make money irrelevant and infinite

*steals money from the vault and buys taser crate as assistant*

Sec's fault for not responding to the alarm.

[Grazyn]

You have to break in the vault, syphon credits which broadcasts the alarm to the entire station, order the crate, break in cargo and in the supply shuttle to retrieve it. If you're able to do all of this without anyone interfering it means the station is already far gone and an assistant with a bunch of tasers wouldn't really change anything. And you could've just slipped an officer for their ID and taser if you wanted gear, it's easier.

Everyone complains economy is pointless because there is nothing to buy, I think bypassing ID locks with the sheer force of your wealth is a cool way to make money useful. An even better way would be actual lootboxes, which you can only buy with your own personal credit (not cargo's) and contain random stuff, pretty much like a null crate but without traitor items, but stuff like armor, weapons, drugs, protolathe items and so on.

[zxaber]

Everyone complains economy is pointless because there is nothing to buy, I think bypassing ID locks with the sheer force of your wealth is a cool way to make money useful. An even better way would be actual lootboxes, which you can only buy with your own personal credit (not cargo's) and contain random stuff, pretty much like a null crate but without traitor items, but stuff like armor, weapons, drugs, protolathe items and so on.

It's a funny system. Anyone with an actual job basically ignores economy if they want like a hat or whatever, and hats aren't valued enough for most assistants to do anything RP-related to get one. On the other hand, buying guns is useful, but the prices are so high that for the amount of work you'd need as an assistant to actually buy anything you could probably just break into the armory.

[Yakumo_Chen]

Solution is to not play assistant, obviously.

[iamgoofball]

Solution is to not play assistant, obviously.

Yes, actually.

[Shadowflame909]

My only complaint is

>No hop
>No one to beg to loan me 200 credits out of the service budget so I can buy my contraband plants as a botanist

Or
>There is Hop
>He's a dick
>Gotta rob the clown and mime for 200 credits

What I'm saying is, when there's no Head of Staff at round start. How come the budgets don't just spawn in the lockers?

[oranges]

I've started to see cargo ordering obscene amounts of guns every round and giving them to crew with budget cards. It's getting a little out of hand. It's annoying as security as the only thing worse then greytide is armed greytide. Greytide arguably armed better then security.

So far this really just screams classic "Goofcode goof refuses to maintain that goes completely out of hand" just like Freon crashing the server constantly and being nonsensical, hellish, and copyright infringement.

guys, you're literally hanging the wrong person lmao, goof was paid to create the pr, why should he give a shit about what happens after? go follow up with beesting

[Steelpoint]

It is getting old having to fight Cargo and Science to stop them mass ordering Guns. I've gone rounds where the non-antag RD and Cargo staff have had blood feuds with me because I stamped down on the mass gun ordering.

Its a bit excessive when Cargo is better armed and armoured than Security, the amount of guns I pulled out of Cargo in one round more than tripled the contents of the Armoury.

[DemonFiren]

Gun Cargo is only fun if the cargo staff are competent and hide their shit.

[iamgoofball]

I've started to see cargo ordering obscene amounts of guns every round and giving them to crew with budget cards. It's getting a little out of hand. It's annoying as security as the only thing worse then greytide is armed greytide. Greytide arguably armed better then security.

So far this really just screams classic "Goofcode goof refuses to maintain that goes completely out of hand" just like Freon crashing the server constantly and being nonsensical, hellish, and copyright infringement.

guys, you're literally hanging the wrong person lmao, goof was paid to create the pr, why should he give a shit about what happens after? go follow up with beesting

for once, i am not accountable

[iamgoofball]

It is getting old having to fight Cargo and Science to stop them mass ordering Guns. I've gone rounds where the non-antag RD and Cargo staff have had blood feuds with me because I stamped down on the mass gun ordering.

Its a bit excessive when Cargo is better armed and armoured than Security, the amount of guns I pulled out of Cargo in one round more than tripled the contents of the Armoury.

have you considered the possibility that an armed society is a polite society

[DemonFiren]

holy triplepost goofball

[Steelpoint]

I don't care for American gun political memes.

I wish to simply see some form of sanity to reign in this guncargo epidemic.

[DemonFiren]

t. security main

[Yakumo_Chen]

>goof tried multiple times to nerf cargo because of null crates
>goof impliments something that breaks cargo again
>goof defends it because goofcode

every time

guys, you're literally hanging the wrong person lmao, goof was paid to create the pr, why should he give a shit about what happens after? go follow up with beesting

this is the same logic that got two game modes implemented that are almost universally disliked and unmaintained because hit and run coding, not that goof actually maintains his own code ever anyway

[iamgoofball]

*incoherent babbling about how i am the anti-christ of paid code*

Are you just mad you got roasted in admin complaints?

[Malkraz]

I love it

[JStheguy]

I love it

Oh dang, I just realized, what if we made it possible to somehow rig up the paystands to send signaller signals when a payment is made? Then you wouldn't even need to babysit the tollbooth to commit highway robbery, you could just pull that shit automagically.

[Floiven]

Oh dang, I just realized, what if we made it possible to somehow rig up the paystands to send signaller signals when a payment is made? Then you wouldn't even need to babysit the tollbooth to commit highway robbery, you could just pull that shit automagically.

This would be amazing, I'm thinking of a ton of stuff you could set up like this. Someone please code this, I want to see someone make a pay stand for some huge amount of money tuned to a bomb implanted in someone, or themselves. BLOW UP _______, $10,000!

[MMMiracles]

Oh dang, I just realized, what if we made it possible to somehow rig up the paystands to send signaller signals when a payment is made? Then you wouldn't even need to babysit the tollbooth to commit highway robbery, you could just pull that shit automagically.

This would be amazing, I'm thinking of a ton of stuff you could set up like this. Someone please code this, I want to see someone make a pay stand for some huge amount of money tuned to a bomb implanted in someone, or themselves. BLOW UP _______, $10,000!

I thought this was a cool idea so here you go.

[Floiven]

Oh dang, I just realized, what if we made it possible to somehow rig up the paystands to send signaller signals when a payment is made? Then you wouldn't even need to babysit the tollbooth to commit highway robbery, you could just pull that shit automagically.

This would be amazing, I'm thinking of a ton of stuff you could set up like this. Someone please code this, I want to see someone make a pay stand for some huge amount of money tuned to a bomb implanted in someone, or themselves. BLOW UP _______, $10,000!

I thought this was a cool idea so here you go.

you're a peach

[Swindly]

Do we really need to be this prepared for hyperdeflation?

[WarbossLincoln]

By adding non-static paystands and paystand signallers you've done more to improve economy code than goof has since it was introduced.

[MMMiracles]

Goof was paid to make goofconomy, not maintain it. You should probably be getting upset at Beesting here considering he paid for it. I'm just taking advantage of the fact this is an open-source game to fix issues I have with it.

[iamgoofball]

By adding non-static paystands and paystand signallers you've done more to improve economy code than goof has since it was introduced.

FYAD

[Denton]

The RnD budget is enormous compared to other departments'. If anyone from cargo gets their hands on the card, they can order 10+ null crates easily over the course of a round.

[Dr_bee]

Budget cards need to go. Give control over budgets to the HoP from a static console like goonstation. Make an announcement if the pay budgets get depleted so people know to lynch the HoP or strike due to lack of pay if they decide to spend the station's budget on corgi crates.

[Shadowflame909]

Budget cards need to go. Give control over budgets to the HoP from a static console like goonstation. Make an announcement if the pay budgets get depleted so people know to lynch the HoP or strike due to lack of pay if they decide to spend the station's budget on corgi crates.

That's pretty good. The only budget card that seems to have any use anyways is the CE's and the Hops.

The hops mainly because everything in Hydroponics is so expensive. So you got to get a loan if you want anything good.

The CE for different Engine Rigs.

Everything else can go suck it.

Tldr: If the hop doesn't give me money as a botanist, I rob the clown or I rob the HoP

[iamgoofball]

Budget cards need to go. Give control over budgets to the HoP from a static console like goonstation. Make an announcement if the pay budgets get depleted so people know to lynch the HoP or strike due to lack of pay if they decide to spend the station's budget on corgi crates.

yeah can someone remove budget cards thanks

[Yakumo_Chen]

Cap should keep his too, it's not too much money and it's captain

[Cobby]

Goof was paid to make goofconomy, not maintain it. You should probably be getting upset at Beesting here considering he paid for it. I'm just taking advantage of the fact this is an open-source game to fix issues I have with it.

our contributing guidelines expect you to maintain the code you PR to the repo, regardless of your intentions as to why you're making it.

[BeeSting12]

Budget cards need to go. Give control over budgets to the HoP from a static console like goonstation. Make an announcement if the pay budgets get depleted so people know to lynch the HoP or strike due to lack of pay if they decide to spend the station's budget on corgi crates.

yeah can someone remove budget cards thanks

I originally wanted the HoP to get a console but everyone was worried about "trolling." Trust me, the infinite cargo money meme has led to more trolling than that ever could.

[iamgoofball]

Goof was paid to make goofconomy, not maintain it. You should probably be getting upset at Beesting here considering he paid for it. I'm just taking advantage of the fact this is an open-source game to fix issues I have with it.

our contributing guidelines expect you to maintain the code you PR to the repo, regardless of your intentions as to why you're making it.

I can't and you know it asshole

[Grazyn]

Budget cards need to go. Give control over budgets to the HoP from a static console like goonstation. Make an announcement if the pay budgets get depleted so people know to lynch the HoP or strike due to lack of pay if they decide to spend the station's budget on corgi crates.

yeah can someone remove budget cards thanks

I originally wanted the HoP to get a console but everyone was worried about "trolling." Trust me, the infinite cargo money meme has led to more trolling than that ever could.

Giving control of all the budgets to a single person who is also the head of cargo doesn't feel like a solution.

"Just lynch the HoP lol" doesn't work, the crew will be happy to have infinite guns and null crates, and there won't be any pay cuts: as I said before, you can deplete the research budget as soon as it refills and it will still refill with enough credits to pay everyone in science. Not to mention that money is still useless outside of cargo so no one would even care about having no pay as long they can get their shotgun crate.

[oranges]

Goof was paid to make goofconomy, not maintain it. You should probably be getting upset at Beesting here considering he paid for it. I'm just taking advantage of the fact this is an open-source game to fix issues I have with it.

our contributing guidelines expect you to maintain the code you PR to the repo, regardless of your intentions as to why you're making it.

it's an expectation only

[somerandomguy]

Budget cards need to go. Give control over budgets to the HoP from a static console like goonstation. Make an announcement if the pay budgets get depleted so people know to lynch the HoP or strike due to lack of pay if they decide to spend the station's budget on corgi crates.

yeah can someone remove budget cards thanks

I originally wanted the HoP to get a console but everyone was worried about "trolling." Trust me, the infinite cargo money meme has led to more trolling than that ever could.

Giving control of all the budgets to a single person who is also the head of cargo doesn't feel like a solution.

"Just lynch the HoP lol" doesn't work, the crew will be happy to have infinite guns and null crates, and there won't be any pay cuts: as I said before, you can deplete the research budget as soon as it refills and it will still refill with enough credits to pay everyone in science. Not to mention that money is still useless outside of cargo so no one would even care about having no pay as long they can get their shotgun crate.

Cut research budget by 20x
Problem solved

[Dr_bee]

Budget cards need to go. Give control over budgets to the HoP from a static console like goonstation. Make an announcement if the pay budgets get depleted so people know to lynch the HoP or strike due to lack of pay if they decide to spend the station's budget on corgi crates.

yeah can someone remove budget cards thanks

I originally wanted the HoP to get a console but everyone was worried about "trolling." Trust me, the infinite cargo money meme has led to more trolling than that ever could.

Giving control of all the budgets to a single person who is also the head of cargo doesn't feel like a solution.

"Just lynch the HoP lol" doesn't work, the crew will be happy to have infinite guns and null crates, and there won't be any pay cuts: as I said before, you can deplete the research budget as soon as it refills and it will still refill with enough credits to pay everyone in science. Not to mention that money is still useless outside of cargo so no one would even care about having no pay as long they can get their shotgun crate.

Cut research budget by 20x
Problem solved

Yeah this seems to be a problem with how money is generated. again, steal from goonconomy.

Limit the resources. Make research points worth significantly less dosh, possibly 1/100th of a dosh so you end up with around 300 credits a minute passive generation to the RnD budget. Make removing dosh from the RnD budget remove points, and spending points remove dosh.

Payroll budget goes from department based to just station based. 3 budgets, cargo, payroll, science. all fighting for the same resources, with cargo and science being the only generators, and cargo being the most effective generator.

Engineering and sec budget should be removed. Cargo is supposed to hold the power of the purse so to speak when it comes to supplies, and giving other departments the ability to circumvent their budget restriction removes a lot of their power. Sure you will find QMs who blow the entire budget on guns, but they will probably be deposed by the rest of the station getting stupidly pissed at them.

Dont try to re-invent the wheel.