space law being a "suggestion" is a fucking joke

[angelstarri]

Just jail everyone for 9:59 minutes and confiscate their stuff permanently for every minor/medium crime because it's an IC suggestion and you can do whatever you want with everything below a 10 minute sentence being an IC issue :v)

Just kill everyone you can who are subject to previous precedent because you're able to kill someone ICly due to an OOC decision :v)

Just do whatever you want because you are not accountable to anything but the admins and even when you are adminhelped you can quote rules and precedents to get out of any bad situation for free :v)

[Coconutwarrior97]

All of this seems subject to Rule 7 or Rule 1, if someones repeatedly being a dick and putting people in the brig for a 9:59 timer an admin will step in. Did something happen which caused you to make this post? Or is this just a general observation you've been having for a while?

[Farquaar]

All of this seems subject to Rule 7 or Rule 1, if someones repeatedly being a dick and putting people in the brig for a 9:59 timer an admin will step in.

[subject217]

this is where the "bad faith" buzzword comes in as well as "rules lawyer"

[Dr_bee]

Fun fact, be careful what you wish for, because if space law becomes mandatory again I am totally brigging people for 2 minutes for petty shit every chance I get. because the LAW is behind me

[Eskjjlj]

[Davidchan]

Imagine a world in which security players were required to not only enforce space law but follow it themselves, keeping each other in line.q

[DemonFiren]

Imagine a world in which security players were required to not only enforce space law but follow it themselves, keeping each other in line.q

like, shit, last time I arrested a HoS was on fucking Bay and that faggot broke both my legs

Spoiler:

then again it was JLP

[Nilons]

this sounds like a greytide salt thread

[Lazengann]

if you have a complaint about enforcement make an admin complaint

[Arianya]

If you ahelp getting a 3 minute timer for trespass or something, yes you're gonna get brushed off. Don't do the crime if you don't want to do the time.

If someone is being a dick in security with stuff like 9minutes 59 second timers or holding you for extended amounts of time without a timer, feel free to ahelp it, and if its ignored for some reason make an admincomplaint. I can't enforce consistency on rulings which I never see.

[confused rock]

Most would probably be much worse as sec if they actually followed space law. God forbid you hack into eva, no omnizine allowed since weed is bad.
10 minuted is hardly a nightmare, well maybe if on basil where rounds last a secondtury. Unless you’re going to gulag with 1000 points the fears are unneeded, but if I followed space law I could unzip an hour timer on any poor sap who prepared for war ops. In such a norp setting the only accurate part of space law is the capital punishments.

[delaron]

I recently played a couple rounds as security. I find it really helped shape my attitude when playing non sec in a positive manner. I am of the opinion jail time isnt a timeout from playing the game. People may want to take time to portray the character and make a story or experience out of it. Like if I am going to do things to get brig time and I want to interact with security I try to ensure its not a headache for them but rather an opportunity to chat and give them gameplay that isnt just combat mechanics. Sometimes Ill purposefully burn myself on the light bulb or do other medical related things to show that you have to care for your inmate and remove objects from at danger folks. Sometimes I will fess up to the crime and ask for a plea bargin. Remember sec players are playing the game too and their job is also a mini game to the station.

[SaveVatznick]

Oftentimes your actual time being "brigged" is about five minutes longer than it says on the label, on account of dumbshit officers standing around the brig going through your stuff/ yelling over radio asking, "YO WHAT DID THIS GUY EVEN DO?" before taking a full minute to properly brig you. I've been held and bounced back & forth between officers for nearly entire rounds before.

Being handcuffed and grabbed counts as being brigged in my mind. As long as the cuffs are on, you're a passenger.

[iksyp]

just don't get brigged retard

[BeeSting12]

do the crime do the time

[PKPenguin321]

the way brig works right now is basically "sec can do whatever the fuck they want", but with spacelaw it's "sec now has to spend 5 seconds making up different reasons to arrest you (including any amount of trespass, resisting arrest, enemy of the corp, etc since those are so goddamn arbitrary) and can then do whatever they want" since it only concerns brig times anyways, they can still steal your shit or whatever. i agree it's a bit shit how it works but making space law mandatory isn't a great fix

[Farquaar]

Pretty sure enemy of the corporation only applies to Syndicates, cultists, wizards and revs
Basically the IC justification for executing or permaing antags

[Cobby]

I will IC issue most brig sentence times because if they're obviously unreasonable I also give permission to fight back.

If you don't want to get locked away consider not breaking the law or do it covertly?

[Screemonster]

rule 1 and escalation policy still applies to security so if they start a fight with you for literally no reason and steal your stuff then go ahead and treat them like anyone else who starts a fight with you for literally no reason and steals your stuff

if they don't wanna get dunked and have the admins ic-issue them when they complain then maybe they should consider not robbing people next round

[Ayy Lemoh]

rule 1 and escalation policy still applies to security so if they start a fight with you for literally no reason and steal your stuff then go ahead and treat them like anyone else who starts a fight with you for literally no reason and steals your stuff

if they don't wanna get dunked and have the admins ic-issue them when they complain then maybe they should consider not robbing people next round

Let's say you're not a space badass, though.

You try to fight and dunk the sec officer however he has the following tricks up his sleeve:
- ranged stuns
- ability to call for backup that trusts him more than you if they actually try to save him
- any backup will also have ranged stuns
- special immunity in escalation policy (although if they're a thief then it shouldn't apply to them)
- you will have to strike first (If you use nonlethals then he can't kill you for that however fucking with sec makes you seem like an antag so he is valid to kill you then)

your tricks are:
- random greyshirts may help you

Yeah, good fucking luck. You are definitely going to lose. If you say 'no because i would use bolas/explosive lances/some other bullshit' then you are not who I am referring to. I am referring to people who aren't robust enough to EASILY defeat any mildly competent security officer.

[Shezza]

I killbaited so many people as sec its absurd.

The escalation policy is a fucking joke that doesn't protect anyone from killbaiting like its supposed to.

[subject217]

the escalation policy is designed to protect from ban baiting

it technically does this, it just makes the game significantly less fun because it enables kill baiting shitters by the boatload

[Lumbermancer]

but with spacelaw it's "sec now has to spend 5 seconds making up different reasons to arrest you

You don't make shit up. Fun fact, every time someone throws a fit over their arrest, I always spell out all the reasons for them. Then I will bring the Space Law, to back it up. It just doesn't matter, they don't care.

[DemonFiren]

It just doesn't matter, they don't care.

because space law is a suggestion and anyone who uses that suggestion as excuse to arrest people is obviously shitcurity

[Lumbermancer]

You are right, punishment for murder is just a suggestion.

[DemonFiren]

You are right, punishment for murder is just a suggestion.

it is, valids are entirely optional
and if what the murderer did wasn't valid admins will take care of it anyway

[Lumbermancer]

Then say you want to remove security, stop beating around the bush.

[DemonFiren]

Then say you want to remove security, stop beating around the bush.

hardly
I'm just arguing that shitcurity wil use both the mandatory and optional laws to justify its actions and claim they're in the right
that's the way it's always been
that's the way it works with the normal rules and roles, too

[Lumbermancer]

What are the "mandatory laws", enlighten me?

[Nilons]

Then say you want to remove security, stop beating around the bush.

hardly
I'm just arguing that shitcurity wil use both the mandatory and optional laws to justify its actions and claim they're in the right
that's the way it's always been
that's the way it works with the normal rules and roles, too

Wrong I laugh at people who bring up space law in game too then set the timer according to how much of a cunt they're being

[DemonFiren]

What are the "mandatory laws", enlighten me?

the idea of space law being enforced as security rule rather than optional guideline

[Lumbermancer]

But...you said shitcurity will use both mandatory and optional laws? I'm confused.

[DemonFiren]

But...you said shitcurity will use both mandatory and optional laws? I'm confused.

not at the same time
blood flow to brain limited due to blocked nasal passages

[Lumbermancer]

You're making zero sense.

[somerandomguy]

You're making zero sense.

I think he means like
>be shitsec
>see someone break a window to tool storage to get a spear to fight cultists
>vandalism, brig for 3 mins (have to follow space law)
>see a known shitter have gloves of unknown origin
>no crime, brig for 5 anyway because they have to be up to something (breaks space law)
>oh snag the gloves too (theft)
>catch a traitor
>execute on the spot via harmbaton without any auth (breaks space law again)
>space/cremate the body
>barge into med too in case he was scanned (B&E)
You get the idea

[Nilons]

You're making zero sense.

I think he means like
>be shitsec
>see someone break a window to tool storage to get a spear to fight cultists
>vandalism, brig for 3 mins (have to follow space law)
>see a known shitter have gloves of unknown origin
>no crime, brig for 5 anyway because they have to be up to something (breaks space law)
>oh snag the gloves too (theft)
>catch a traitor
>execute on the spot via harmbaton without any auth (breaks space law again)
>space/cremate the body
>barge into med too in case he was scanned (B&E)
You get the idea

Replace "because it breaks space law" with "because it's cunty" and you have a superior system

[Atlanta-Ned]

this is a dumb thread and its getting dumber

[Kierany9]

set the timer according to how much of a cunt they're being

this is the only true way to play sec

[Lumbermancer]

Replace "because it breaks space law" with "because it's cunty" and you have a superior system

Yes, open it more to personal interpenetration and feelings.

[ShrimpMantis]

Most would probably be much worse as sec if they actually followed space law. God forbid you hack into eva, no omnizine allowed since weed is bad.

Cargo can order space suit crates. And in regards to omnizine....you can just grind the ambrosia deus or have the omnizine placed into another plant. If you don't want to be arrested, just don't break the law and you'll be fine.

[Davidchan]

You're making zero sense.

I think he means like
>be shitsec
>see someone break a window to tool storage to get a spear to fight cultists
>vandalism, brig for 3 mins (have to follow space law)
>see a known shitter have gloves of unknown origin
>no crime, brig for 5 anyway because they have to be up to something (breaks space law)
>oh snag the gloves too (theft)
>catch a traitor
>execute on the spot via harmbaton without any auth (breaks space law again)
>space/cremate the body
>barge into med too in case he was scanned (B&E)
You get the idea

Queue sec mains 'ITS THE ONLY WAY TO PLAY!1!11!!!ONE'
If rule 4 applied to security the same way they abuse it (act like an antag get treated like an antag) there'd be a lot less people venting on the forums about shitsec as being shitsec in and of itself is antagonists to loyal crew, removing them from the round for extended periods of time and stealing their gear for personal use. Start treating security the same way you'd treat any greyshit running around stuncuffing people and locking them in maint, if the arrest reason isn't valid and air tight then what ever retribution coming towards sec should be valid. Any security player who thinks executing a nonantag for what was clearly a bad arrest is long overdue for a secban no matter how you spin it.

[Nilons]

You're making zero sense.

I think he means like
>be shitsec
>see someone break a window to tool storage to get a spear to fight cultists
>vandalism, brig for 3 mins (have to follow space law)
>see a known shitter have gloves of unknown origin
>no crime, brig for 5 anyway because they have to be up to something (breaks space law)
>oh snag the gloves too (theft)
>catch a traitor
>execute on the spot via harmbaton without any auth (breaks space law again)
>space/cremate the body
>barge into med too in case he was scanned (B&E)
You get the idea

Queue sec mains 'ITS THE ONLY WAY TO PLAY!1!11!!!ONE'
If rule 4 applied to security the same way they abuse it (act like an antag get treated like an antag) there'd be a lot less people venting on the forums about shitsec as being shitsec in and of itself is antagonists to loyal crew, removing them from the round for extended periods of time and stealing their gear for personal use. Start treating security the same way you'd treat any greyshit running around stuncuffing people and locking them in maint, if the arrest reason isn't valid and air tight then what ever retribution coming towards sec should be valid. Any security player who thinks executing a nonantag for what was clearly a bad arrest is long overdue for a secban no matter how you spin it.

first, sec gets treated differently because they literally cannot be antagonists
second, thats why so many people get secbans yeah

[Lumbermancer]

Any security player who thinks executing a nonantag for what was clearly a bad arrest is long overdue for a secban no matter how you spin it.

Ahelp it.

[Super Aggro Crag]

"Suggest" this, anticitizen *grabs junk*

[obscolene]

>see someone breaking a window
>tase them
>throw them into the wall and tell them to quit being a faggot

>see 2 people fighting in the halls
>tase them both
>tell them to quit being faggots
>drag one of them to the other side of the station and leave them there

>see someone hacking into captain's office
>tase them
>tell them to quit being a faggot while beating the shit out of them
>screwdriver the airlock panel closed and put it in your pocket
>walk away

there is literally no reason for the brig to exist. change my mind

[Farquaar]

>see someone breaking a window
>tase them
>throw them into the wall and tell them to quit being a faggot

>see 2 people fighting in the halls
>tase them both
>tell them to quit being faggots
>drag one of them to the other side of the station and leave them there

>see someone hacking into captain's office
>tase them
>tell them to quit being a faggot while beating the shit out of them
>screwdriver the airlock panel closed and put it in your pocket
>walk away

there is literally no reason for the brig to exist. change my mind

>walk away
>come back to find windows broken, a bloody corpse on the floor and the captain's office open with the locker missing

[Super Aggro Crag]

>do your job
>faggot screams SEC IS ROGUE
>suddenly hallway justice becomes a mass riot as uninformed greyshits and metabuddy faggots begin trying to kill you to save Dickhead McDoorhacker

The brig exists so you can stomp on the throats of the subhumans in relative peace.

[Shezza]

>be me
>femsec catgirl chan
>walk into people with disarm intent on because its not logged
>one bites the bait
>he tries to disarm me
>pull out baton without any charge in it
>he pushes me over and grabs the baton
you_fucked_up_now.png
>he tries to stun me with the baton
>i taze and beat him to death
>captain gives me a medal and all access because of my race and sex

e :clap s c a l a t i o n

[drawsstuff]

I only bring up space law whenever I'm playing a lawyer, the warden, or the captain, and only one aspect of it, and that's the execution bit. When I'm a captain and you execute a shitler for being a shitler without consulting me first, I'll actually paperwork your ass and demote you if you don't shape up. Same for whenever I'm dealing with prisoners as the warden, and a HoS mad dashes them to execution at the first chance they get. I'll send a message to the captain reminding them they aren't flexing their power, then 70% of the time they'll agree with me and I'll be able to pin the same charge of murder on the HoS as per space law.

Anything else about space law mostly doesn't miff me, but there's something inherently fun about asking the HoS if they ever read that space law book that's in their office only to have them go rogue and rambo.