[POLL] Update SS13 lore to account for Lizardmen?

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Tue Nov 18, 2014 2:12 pm #44245

Bottom post of the previous page:

As pertaining to the requirement that any changes to our backstory be discussed and voted on in the main forums (Only surviving article of that requirement is on the old wiki here: http://www.ss13.eu/wiki/index.php/Admin_Decisions_Log), I am creating this thread to put forward a alteration to our backstory to account for the ability for players to play as a non-human Lizard.

Up until the introduction of Lizard selectable characters, Lizards were, from a lore perspective, restricted to very low-level roles and were still only in the process of being hired on NT space stations. However now anyone can play a Lizard in any role barring a command role (Captain, HoS, HoP, CMO, RD or CE).

Hence why I suggest that a new amendment be made to the lore to account for this, here's how I would write it.

Echos of Humanity's dark distant past and their treatment of alien species remain well entrenched in modern day Human society, with all alien species, including Lizardmen, being treated as second class citizens in Human society.

In 2550 Nanotrasen made history with the creation, and signing, of the Lessen Equality Act which paved the way for Lizardmen to be hired into low level jobs on-board Nanotrasen space stations, as well as being the first corporation in exsistance to sign such a act. However in 2554 a amendment to the Lessen Equality Act, known as article 66, authorized the promotion of Lizardmen into higher ranking roles.

This proved to be a significantly controversial amendment that was met with great disapproval, undeterred the change was pushed through by Nanotrasen's board of directors. However the threat of the Government to terminate Nanotrasen's top secret plasma mining contract forced the addition of article 67 which barred Lizardmen from assuming a command level role outside of extreme circumstances. Nanotrasen was quick to use their new Lizardmen employees to shore up gaps in their workforce.

The top secret Space Station 13 was no exception.

Text is not final but I'm sure you get the jist.

EDIT: Link to our current backstory wiki page: https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Backstory

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Wed Nov 19, 2014 7:08 pm #44620

Look, one of the great things about this game is how it doesn't get old.

I mean, today I may want to gas all lizards and tomorrow I might bow to them and try to destroy all specism. As opposed to "Oh, he's a lizard. They're so oppressed. Fuck 'em." for 100th time because a bunch of people on forums decided that "lol hoomanity" should be supported by actual in-game restrictions.

The thing is, we won't get better roleplay anyway and you just take away something that could be used as basis for good roleplay.

Cheridan · Post by **Cheridan** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:19 pm #44701

Codewise, lizards are mutantraces because that's what the code is called. In-game, policy is that lizardmen are an alien species that are not currently covered under Asimov protection if they are causing harm to humans.

Codewise, double-barrel shotguns are revolvers, chairs are beds, and food are weapons. Don't let behind-the-scenes code mechanics influence your perspective on the game. That's silly.

fleure · Post by **fleure** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:23 pm #44702

The janicart is a bed (The pussy wagon one, not the roller) but shhh don't let anyone know

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:25 pm #44703

If anyone has any final feedback on the proposed lore entry as written in the OP speak up.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:34 pm #44704

As long as we can keep named figures out of it, for reasons stated above by Violaceus, i'm all for it.

peoplearestrange · Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:45 pm

I'd second that opinion. I like padding so long as its still ambiguous enough to "write" your own story into the game.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 2:56 pm #44710

Hence why I only refereed to Nanotrasen as the "board of directors". For a game like SS13 it is important to avoid named people as much as possible in the lore.

I might also go through the lore page and post a more refined version, cutting down on some of the horrible grammar and making more sense of the lore but without changing anything.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:03 pm #44712

I thought the CEO was called Creed, was it removed from the lore because WH40K references are bad?

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 3:46 pm #44720

This proved to be a significantly controversial amendment that was met with great disapproval, undeterred however the change was pushed through by Nanotrasen.

WeeYakk · Post by **WeeYakk** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:04 pm #44769

Steelpoint wrote:Echos of Humanity's dark distant past and their treatment of alien species remain well entrenched in modern day Human society, with all alien species, including Lizardmen, being treated as second class citizens in Human society.

Good so far.

Steelpoint wrote:In 2550 Nanotrasen made history with the creation, and signing, of the Lessen Equality Act which paved the way for Lizardmen to be hired into low level jobs on-board Nanotrasen space stations, as well as being the first corporation in exsistance to sign such a act. However in 2554 a amendment to the Lessen Equality Act, known as article 66, authorized the promotion of Lizardmen into higher ranking roles.

Like other people have said, an Amy Lessen joke is kind of poor taste here. Also when you call it the Lessen Equality act it sounds like your lessening equality when you're doing the opposite. Newer players reading the lore page won't get the reference and just be confused by your choice of words.

Steelpoint wrote:This proved to be a significantly controversial amendment that was met with great disapproval, undeterred the change was pushed through by Nanotrasen's board of directors. However the threat of the Government to terminate Nanotrasen's top secret plasma mining contract forced the addition of article 67 which barred Lizardmen from assuming a command level role outside of extreme circumstances. Nanotrasen was quick to use their new Lizardmen employees to shore up gaps in their workforce.

>Government
Isn't NT an infinitely huge sovereign corporation? What government owns the far reaches of space? Why are Lizardmen barred from command roles if they're just mutated humans? Doesn't that kind of ruin the fun of lizard players for dumb reasons?

Violaceus wrote:communist corporation, not american capitalistic corporation.

Please learn what those words you are using mean.

Intigracy · Post by **Intigracy** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:08 pm #44771

Lizardmen are a different species with comparable DNA to humans, they aren't a mutated human.

Please see Cheridan's post.

Cheridan wrote:Codewise, lizards are mutantraces because that's what the code is called. In-game, policy is that lizardmen are an alien species that are not currently covered under Asimov protection if they are causing harm to humans.

Codewise, double-barrel shotguns are revolvers, chairs are beds, and food are weapons. Don't let behind-the-scenes code mechanics influence your perspective on the game. That's silly.

WeeYakk · Post by **WeeYakk** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:20 pm #44775

Intigracy wrote:Lizardmen are a different species with comparable DNA to humans, they aren't a mutated human.

Please see Cheridan's post.

Cheridan wrote:Codewise, lizards are mutantraces because that's what the code is called. In-game, policy is that lizardmen are an alien species that are not currently covered under Asimov protection if they are causing harm to humans.

Codewise, double-barrel shotguns are revolvers, chairs are beds, and food are weapons. Don't let behind-the-scenes code mechanics influence your perspective on the game. That's silly.

I skipped over it because page 2 looked like a lot of dumb shitflinging. Things not having Asimov protection generally leads to gnashing of teeth and weeping. It seems easier to just say "they're mutated humans" so they can still be human according to Asimov and because we will literally never change Asimov despite all the conflict it creates.

Also lizard names aren't addressed here. Verbs-Article-Noun is the standard lizard name format but there's some people going around with Fourtwentyweedscopes tier names because it's muh alien culture I don't have to have human names.

Violaceus wrote:
Please learn what those words you
are using mean.
I know what communism means propably far better than you, as I live in country which was occupied by this worst of diseases.

Of course there are no corporations in communism, but it doesn't stop many people from viewing NT as oppresive corporation with communist flavor.

And I'm from the country that killed it for you because Europeans can't sort out their own problems. You're welcome.

Tell me though, how are they 'communist'?

Intigracy · Post by **Intigracy** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:39 pm #44781

Please actually read the thread before bringing up the points that were already refuted, thanks.

WeeYakk · Post by **WeeYakk** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 9:59 pm #44787

I don't see it being refuted just Cheridan saying they're only mutantraces code wise. In game policy just says they aren't human, like monkeys and hulks, according to Asimov, which imho is a bad idea.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Thu Nov 20, 2014 10:40 pm #44792

I think the old "communist Nanotrasen" debate comes from the lack of functional currency in our revision, unlike the Goons for example. This isn't really a "communist" thing anyway, first of all because no currency=communism is stupid, and second because crew members shouldn't be expected to carry a wallet to pay for basic things like food or tools since they're on the station to work and they already get a paycheck. Lore wise, the derelict is space-russian but nothing says that it was a NT operation.

Oh and the USSR fell thanks to the USA and the shitton of money they poured in western Europe and in every other country around the world that opposed communism

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 1:44 am #44837

Getting on topic!

I had no idea the "Lessen Equality Act" was a reference, I simply used it from the wiki description on Lizard's.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 4:11 am #44858

http://z13.invisionfree.com/Sigurd_Foru ... owtopic=19

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 6:55 am #44888

paprika wrote:http://z13.invisionfree.com/Sigurd_Foru ... owtopic=19

Number of sexual encounters ended by being welder-bombed by a clown: 2

My sides.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:07 am #44891

How about the "Alien Equality Act" then.

I would use the "Non-Human Equality Act", but that would also apply to Silicon's.

The "Lizard Equality Act" might work, but that means if we do ever add in additional non-human races to the game they would, by lore, not have any rights.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 7:19 am #44897

Steelpoint wrote:I would use the "Non-Human Equality Act", but that would also apply to Silicon's.

Human law names don't function like AI laws. You could name it the "Mickey Mouse Act" and it would still be the same law and in no way implicate the scilicons, mice, or Chester Cheetah in any meaningful way just because of its name.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 8:51 am #44906

Just call it species equality act. Ian is employed, after all.

TheWiznard · Post by **TheWiznard** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:06 am #44924

paprika wrote:Just call it species equality act. Ian is employed, after all.

this sounds good

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Nov 21, 2014 11:18 am #44926

paprika wrote:Just call it species equality act. Ian is employed, after all.

Seems good.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 4:55 pm #45188

Final iteration of the lore text.

Echoes of Humanity's dark distant past and their treatment of alien species remain well entrenched in modern day Human society. All alien species, including Lizardmen, have always been treated as second class citizens in Human society.

In 2550 Nanotrasen made history with the creation, and signing, of the Species Equality Act which paved the way for Lizardmen to be hired into low level jobs on-board Nanotrasen space stations, typically janitorial positions, as well as being the first corporation in existence to sign such a act. However in 2554 a amendment to the Species Equality Act, known as article 66, authorized the promotion and hiring of Lizardmen into most available station based roles.

This proved to be a significantly controversial amendment that was met with great disapproval, undeterred the change was pushed through by Nanotrasen. However the threat of the United Earth Government terminating Nanotrasen's top secret plasma mining contract forced the addition of article 67 which barred Lizardmen from assuming a command level role outside of extreme circumstances. Nanotrasen was quick to use their new Lizardmen employees to shore up gaps in their workforce.

The top secret Space Station 13 was no exception.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:01 pm #45190

Awesome, thanks steelpoint

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 5:34 pm #45194

Grazyn wrote:I thought the CEO was called Creed, was it removed from the lore because WH40K references are bad?

No its because Sillazi was an asshole that nobody liked.

rosello · Post by **rosello** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 8:20 pm #45228

Earth is kinda also bombed to shit, so I don't think the United Earth Government would matter too much.

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:44 pm #45305

Malkevin wrote:
Grazyn wrote:I thought the CEO was called Creed, was it removed from the lore because WH40K references are bad?
No its because Sillazi was an asshole that nobody liked.

p sure creed is only supposed to be the head of NT's PMC anyway

Cheridan · Post by **Cheridan** » Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:15 am #45311

Yeah, I believe the code referenced him as "Commander". Is that the highest rank in NT? Who knows!

Again, we've never had an official method to add backstory to the same. The wiki page itself had, at one time, pictures and descriptions of all the aliens from X-COM: EU and big disclaimer on top not to take it seriously.
So is the wiki our lore? Apparently not.
Is the code our lore? To an extent it is -- there are plenty of in-world references in descriptions and in the game's design -- but many such descriptions are just off the top of the head of whoever was working on that code at the time. None of it is more valid than anyone else's headcanon.

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:41 am #45321

no see that just means all headcanons are valid, duh

Cheridan · Post by **Cheridan** » Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:44 am #45322

miggles wrote:no see that just means all headcanons are valid, duh

My headcanon is that your headcanon is wrong.

paradox; cue AI self destruct

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:32 am #45329

Earth is never actually referenced to have been bombed.

Imo the idea of a Government existing and controlling NT's mining contract does open up some interesting possibilities lore wise, such as the Syndicate trying to find a way to implicate NT in a negative activity that results in the termination of their mining contract, maybe Nuclear Weapons are disallowed to be held by NT and the usage of the Nuclear Bomb in a operative round is meant to force the UE's hand against NT?

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:52 am #45331

Can we not get too crazy about the backstory for our spacemen game and instead only make up/refine lore for what is absolutely necessary for the game mechanics (like lizards) and leave the rest up to people who make their own backstories? We would also be effectively making up a backstory about earth/a government/etc for the SERVER which is bad because this isn't the kind of server that needs it. Maybe nuke ops want to frame NT, maybe they just want to blow up their fucking station. Why does this have anything to do with the game itself again outside of roleplay which you're effectively stifling by making a large canon rather than leaving things like the syndicate ambiguous? This just simply isn't the setting or the game where that is necessary or a good thing, period. The lizard backstory is necessary because it explains that lizards are accepted as employees as a PR stunt and then barred from command positions to explain why aliens can't be heads of staff in the game (which in ITSELF is a large indicator of NT's trust towards aliens on their stations) because otherwise there would be really nothing at all keeping us from letting lizards be in command positions and people would ask questions. But do we REALLY need a backstory as to why nuke ops are blowing up a station, or why a mutiny is happening against the heads of staff or why a space wizard is teleporting around gibbing people and turning them into magical constructs and shit?

The answer is no, let's keep this about lizards.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:58 am #45381

Personally I think adding in more context encourages more role play as it gives a backdrop, and context, to said roleplay. It's hard to have a central theme when everyone is using their own headcanon.

Either way, I'm not suddenly rewriting the entire lore, it's a minor reference which still allows people to draw their own conclusions.

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:53 am #45534

I'm with Paprka on this one.

Having some deep lore write-up about why lizardmen exist and their role in society aint great. This isn't that kind of station. We do "light RP", not THIS IS THE CANON YOU MUST ABIDE BY THIS.

The most that needs to be said about it is just cleaning up and defining what everyone has already mostly agree'd on:

1) Lizards are a companion race to humanity. They peacefully co-exist on planets and in space.
2) Lizards are entitled to the same rights as any human.
3) Lizards commonly have names that refer to an individual's aptitudes or vocation.

Going any further than that is unnecessary and infringes on other people's ability to create their own story.

There is an undertone of anti-lizard racism and a lot of people hint that it used to be even worse. That lizards enjoying full rights is a relatively new thing.

But just leave it at that. A nebulous thing some people hint at.

Hell, I'd even go one step further and say the backstory we do have, the "gloom and doom grimdark humanity as an evil virus eating the universe" war story is really shitty and unnecessary. Is that just another goofy Goon holdover or did one of you fart-huffing WH40k 'tards come up with that drivel?

'Cause we so desperately need to have this massive brooding backstory to explain a game in which the space clown throws banana peels at people so he can steal their shoes.

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:13 am #45541

If we were to have some kind of backstory that is to be more codified, we should start over and actually think about the evolution of /tg/station as a whole and not just pull stuff out of our butts.

/tg/station is a story of a bunch of brave pioneers who copied a bunch of leaked blueprints to a cutting edge plasma research facility, then found a convenient spot in deep space and plunked one down. Much chaos and infighting ensued. Multiple facilities were built, exploded, and rebuilt. Different designs were tried. At one point we orbited a star, but it caused lots of space time anomalies so we got the hell out of there. Some people still insist it's out there, we just can't see it anymore.

We've been so "successful" as an entity we now operate multiple concurrent facilities, so they can explode and kill everyone twice as fast. Not for nothin', we've managed to invent a lot of cool shit over the years using this plasma stuff. It's attracted the attention of all kinds of malcontents who want to steal it, from nuke agents to space wizards. Recently we've welcomed a race of lizard people to come hang out and join us in our never-ending quest to blow up in bigger and more creative ways. Our designs are so good, in fact, that a lot of other startups copy us or try to retrofit stuff onto our patterns. We have a fairly positive diplomatic relationship with them, and welcome immigrants from other reaches of space with a minimum of adjustment.

Flesh that out just a little bit and leave it at that. Now when someone reads that they actually get some history of the station and not just OW THE EDGE.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:41 am #45545

A lore rewrite would be a interesting idea.

However I think the aim of this thread has been accomplished. I'll be adding in the above mentioned lore entry to our current back story, making it apart of our lore for the time being. I would highly advise that if anyone wish's to continue the discussion on expanding and reworking our lore to make a new thread.

For the interested, here is the final lore write up, no changes from before.

Spoiler:

Thank you.

Should the new status of Lizardmen be added to our lore?