Virtual Reality Feedback/Ideas Thread

[Dax Dupont]

While it's not enabled on the servers yet, it will be soon.

This thread will serve as a central point for feedback and ideas.

Currently planned:
VR Snowdin and Syndicate Trainer (includes IDs and other outfit changes)
Raging Mages VR

[Anonmare]

I think one of the most useful and likely easiest use of VR is to create training programs, probably best used for new players who don't know how to make custom servers.

Like a security combat trainer, an atmospherics trainer or an engine set-up trainer for people to learn how to do those things in a way that won't impact the round in a negative manner.

And of course antagonist simulators for people to mess around with those abilities and equipment in preparation for when they do roll those antags.

[Fatal]

Atmos trainer and engine trainer, for sure

Pretty tiring to see the SM explode so much due to incompetence

Also a trainer for the singulo and tesla would be nice, a lot of the new players have no clue what to do with them

Edit: A telecomms trainer, like, people who know how telecomms works and how to fix it are rare

[onleavedontatme]

Suggestions to recreate all aspects of SS13 as a videogame within a videogame because the first layer of the game is taken so seriously is either super funny or super tragic and I'm not sure which.

[onleavedontatme]

Players complaining whenever their sprites turned sideways until the well meaning admins did their best to stamp out the grief and violence, leaving the players bored and clamouring for a new area of the game in which they may freely turn each others sprites sideways

[Wyzack]

Let players be vr admins in game so they can ban people who don't escalate properly in vr, and then we can do this all again when someone implements vvr in a month

[captain sawrge]

absolutely dont have trainers because it completely ruins the learning experience and fun that comes from fucking up

just make it replacement away missions and maybe a big vr battle arena

[onleavedontatme]

I think even VR away missions or arenas ultimately miss the point of SS13 as well. You lose out on the narrative, creativity, "consequences" etc and just kill things.

May as well go play another videogame if you want on demand slices of content with instant respawn and loadouts.

And if they become popular they will be harmful in the same way away missions were, with half the crew just checking out of the round if they didn't get antag.

[onleavedontatme]

I guess it is too late now for it to be fair to make big demands about the nature of VR in SS13 but I'd have preferred it be something like the Matrix or Megaman Battle Network where you plug to cyberworld to accomplish things in the real one (like hacking machines or stealing the PDA logs or whatever) so that its still tied to the overall world and story of the round.

[Dax Dupont]

I guess it is too late now for it to be fair to make big demands about the nature of VR in SS13 but I'd have preferred it be something like the Matrix or Megaman Battle Network where you plug to cyberworld to accomplish things in the real one (like hacking machines or stealing the PDA logs or whatever) so that its still tied to the overall world and story of the round.

It sat dormant for years and I do something with it and people complain.

It's more to enable the combat/violence in EXCESS, allowing people to do things they can't constantly do. I know I don't roll with wizard enabled because I don't want the pressure of having 30 people watch me in deadchat, I'd love to do some raging mages bullshit in the VR arena though.

Not only that, not all of the missions are gonna be combat, Snowdin really isn't.

There's 5 roundstart sleepers, that's hardly gonna put a dent in the 40-70+ players the servers have on average. If 5 is too much we can always delete 2. Also Omega only has 2.

I am deffo looking for other suggestions too, the idea is to revive away missions as something that doesn't completely derail the round. Hopefully get other people to contribute too, nobody really made away missions in such a long time except for snowdin, but then it got disabled and MMM kinda shitcanned all his other remakes he planned.

Arguably the murderdome and syndicate VR trainer were low hanging fruit since I am not good at mapping and murderdome is just a fancy box with guns and the syndicate VR trainer is the old centcomAway mission with modifications to be mostly indestructible.

I've had people nagging me constantly to run VR events and get the VR system up and running, so I'd say the players like it.

If you want to add things that have real world consequence or really neat maps then be the change you want to be and do it.

[Dax Dupont]

Also for the love of god couldn't you start fighting against this stuff before I spent like 10 hours on this shit

[Anonmare]

I did say I would like to see VR as Shadowrun-style Matrix hacking but I also knew that it would be a massive rework that would be beyond most people's capability, and would be a balance nightmare too. I mean, you'd need new ways to secure areas from VR tampering, some way for security to be security deckers against syndicate hackers, IC, firewalls and so on.


If nothing else, programs like these can be a fun diversion and a way for traitors to murder people like with the holodeck. I suppose if you really wanted to, you could add diskettes that add different programs to sleepers, some of which might be illegal/hard-to-get and give users that successfully go through them some mind-based advantages.

[Mickyan]

I think training/combat programs are a great way to help people learn/get used to mechanics they wouldn't otherwise be able to freely experiment with in a real round but I see potential in the way VR works to also be used in other ways that can benefit the round.

Instead of being virtual (not included in the holodeck vr sleepers, separate sleepers somewhere near the gateway), away missions could be you remote piloting a clone/android/whatever and by reaching the end of the dungeon you will be able to enable the station's gateway and physically reach the other side for the loot or whatever. By limiting the amount of sleepers you won't have the entire crew attempting to do the mission at once, and by disabling respawning then the mission will naturally fail for the round once everyone is dead.

Similarly, departments such as engineering could have a sleeper or two connected to a repair drone that can be remotely controlled, security could have a scouting/bomb disposal robot, and so on.

[Lumbermancer]

The more complex this is, the more it will detract from "Real life", and the more its existence will be questionable.

[Rustledjimm]

Personally Kor I think you're just being quite pessimistic when it comes to how players will react to this. If players are having fun and asking for it we should at least try it out. I think the training simulators sound very interesting, often players will rarely experiment or test things because if they fuck up it means sitting out the rest of the round for 30, 40, 50 minutes. Or a few players rarely get to try out combat too often.

But perhaps there should be some form of a downside to using the VR sleeper to prevent people staying in them the entire shift/round. You should be able to be easily killed while inside a VR sleeper etc.

[Karp]

The issue kor is trying to say is that it's going to heavily detract from the game as it seems like it would just be gateway missions but with respawns enabled or a training sim that may as well be booting up the code locally, you aren't really playing the game and it takes players away from being able to have in round impacts

[Dax Dupont]

Personally Kor I think you're just being quite pessimistic when it comes to how players will react to this. If players are having fun and asking for it we should at least try it out. I think the training simulators sound very interesting, often players will rarely experiment or test things because if they fuck up it means sitting out the rest of the round for 30, 40, 50 minutes. Or a few players rarely get to try out combat too often.

But perhaps there should be some form of a downside to using the VR sleeper to prevent people staying in them the entire shift/round. You should be able to be easily killed while inside a VR sleeper etc.

You can emag VR sleepers, also the person never /physically/ leaves the station.

You can literally just open the VR sleeper and pull someone out. Either by clicking it or using a crowbar.

The issue kor is trying to say is that it's going to heavily detract from the game as it seems like it would just be gateway missions but with respawns enabled or a training sim that may as well be booting up the code locally, you aren't really playing the game and it takes players away from being able to have in round impacts

5 sleepers, multiplayer missions and people can be taken out of VR easily.

[Shadowflame909]

I think even VR away missions or arenas ultimately miss the point of SS13 as well. You lose out on the narrative, creativity, "consequences" etc and just kill things.

May as well go play another videogame if you want on demand slices of content with instant respawn and loadouts.

And if they become popular they will be harmful in the same way away missions were, with half the crew just checking out of the round if they didn't get antag.

I think this is more of a good thing than a bad thing. Who cares if the same round start suiciders who would instead suicide if they didn't get antagonist would just make hog the VR machines? It'll cause more trouble for them if others want to use it. Hell, might even cause them to be sent on the way out. Also, there's this sort of paranoia culture around ss13 when experimenting and stuff. That's why security can't just shotgun suspected lings to death and watch over there body. There's always that underlying theme of "Bwoink, why did you do that? Enjoy your admin remark for being shitcurity"

So, to sum it up. It'll cause people who grief from being burnt out onto the jobs to vent with another system and not actually harming anyone's actual gameplay. It'll force the round start suiciders into some interesting scenarios. Maybe during rounds with war ops, it'll make them actually get involved? It'll also help with the paranoia factor of "if you mess up to prepare for a ban" sort of sense that players get whenever they try to experiment onto a ss13 round. It's a training simulator, a grief/burn-out outlet. That I believe will make rounds last longer, as the "stubbed my toe" players can hop into VR. It'll make rounds cleaner, and it'll prop up the roleplaying levels of /tg/ station as a whole. The ones not in the virtual reality machine will be focusing on the well being of there station. Won't they?

[BeeSting12]

I think the training simulators sound very interesting, often players will rarely experiment or test things because if they fuck up it means sitting out the rest of the round for 30, 40, 50 minutes. Or a few players rarely get to try out combat too often.

That's the point of experimentation and testing. It's typically fun/funny when things mess up. That's what made learning toxins one of the funnest times I had learning something in ss13.

[BeeSting12]

And if you guys are seriously worried about getting banned for testing then we need a fucking policy change. I've literally never banned someone for testing toxins, the most I'd give them is a note but usually not even that.

[onleavedontatme]

It'll also help with the paranoia factor of "if you mess up to prepare for a ban" sort of sense that players get whenever they try to experiment onto a ss13 round.

No it wont, if anything it will make it worse because people will scream "why didn't you test in VR instead"

Someone is eventually going to unironically suggest requiring people to complete training VR for jobs or antags before being allowed to play them at some point

[BeeSting12]

It'll also help with the paranoia factor of "if you mess up to prepare for a ban" sort of sense that players get whenever they try to experiment onto a ss13 round.

No it wont, if anything it will make it worse because people will scream "why didn't you test in VR instead"

Someone is eventually going to unironically suggest requiring people to complete training VR for jobs or antags before being allowed to play them at some point

Saving this for when it is suggested.

[XDTM]

Trying out rare antags is a good thing, in my opinion. Getting down the mechanics in a safe environment will likely lead to more interesting strategies for these antags, since players will no longer have to gamble their rare antag round on first-time trying a gimmicky spell combo or nuke op loadout.
Yes, there's local servers, but you can only practice so much without someone else on the other side.

That's the point of experimentation and testing. It's typically fun/funny when things mess up. That's what made learning toxins one of the funnest times I had learning something in ss13.

Sometimes it is, sometimes you die 5 minutes in your first wizard round after trying a weird spell loadout and have to wait 55 minutes for the round to end, knowing that your next wizard round is a long way away

[Dax Dupont]

VR is no way gonna replace things like testing toxins or other job things. The only combat-y things you will see are antag load outs and trying wacky guns.

[Cobby]

I play a roleplaying game to play a tdm inside of it when really the roleplaying game is just a veiled tdm, what the heck is this feature lol

[Shadowflame909]

It's no better then lavaland virology/chemistry testing cobby!

[onleavedontatme]

Those are "real" locations with "real" people and potential impact on the story of the round.

They also recycle dead players rather than drawing from living ones.

They're not available every round either.

[Shadowflame909]

VR is a real location with "real" people who can easily be drawn into the round. The location is dorms. So you're a syndicate agent and your target is in vr? You can get the jump on them! Hell, you can bomb them? I understand that you have a problem with players being in another map and not actually contributing to the station. But how is this any different from players aiming to gain loot from Lavaland, or players who go and space travel? There are multiple things you can do to obtain the problems with VR.

Also, I'd have to disagree with them being available every round. Considering an admin has to place a VR spawner, and they don't really do that often. I think this is a fun practice simulation that's like a better version of the holodeck. It'll die down if you give it time to flourish. I'm just wondering if you want people to make mistakes and try things in round. Why are there all these punishments for messing up? IE. Admin remarks. They kind of make people want to stick to what they know and what's easy!

[BeeSting12]

pretty aure the pr has five of them being placed on station. its not intended to be admin only

[Shadowflame909]

Headmins have to set an actual place for it to spawn, I believe. They haven't yet, or haven't decided to do so. So it's currently admin only!

[oranges]

you know what kor I'm sorry

[Grazyn]

If making a private server to test things is too difficult for you, ss13 is way above your skill level anyway

[Dax Dupont]

Also don't forget this a config option.

It is up to headmins which maps they would like to see used or not.

If a map falls in disuse or never gets used I'll gladly revert said map for maintainability.

[Bombadil]

Using VR to hack the station actually sounds like a good use of VR rather than simulator mode

[Cobby]

Also don't forget this a config option.

It is up to headmins which maps they would like to see used or not.

If a map falls in disuse or never gets used I'll gladly revert said map for maintainability.

Just FYI a config option is basically a second line of defense in removing a feature if maintainers haven't yet.

For the purpose of /tg/, if it's a disabled feature, it's practically a dead feature (see: clockcult).

[Dax Dupont]

Also don't forget this a config option.

It is up to headmins which maps they would like to see used or not.

If a map falls in disuse or never gets used I'll gladly revert said map for maintainability.

Just FYI a config option is basically a second line of defense in removing a feature if maintainers haven't yet.

For the purpose of /tg/, if it's a disabled feature, it's practically a dead feature (see: clockcult).

and thus a good indicator something should get removed.

[Dr_bee]

Using VR to hack the station actually sounds like a good use of VR rather than simulator mode

I would prefer this becoming the first use of it instead of "sim mode". Imagine having to enter VR to change AI laws. and the AI getting VR fun times.

[Cobby]

Personally Kor I think you're just being quite pessimistic when it comes to how players will react to this. If players are having fun and asking for it we should at least try it out. I think the training simulators sound very interesting, often players will rarely experiment or test things because if they fuck up it means sitting out the rest of the round for 30, 40, 50 minutes. Or a few players rarely get to try out combat too often.

But perhaps there should be some form of a downside to using the VR sleeper to prevent people staying in them the entire shift/round. You should be able to be easily killed while inside a VR sleeper etc.

He's pessimistic because of how similar features functioned (like VR in terms of pulling players) and its effects historically, and in that sense he's 100% correct.

[Dax Dupont]

Personally Kor I think you're just being quite pessimistic when it comes to how players will react to this. If players are having fun and asking for it we should at least try it out. I think the training simulators sound very interesting, often players will rarely experiment or test things because if they fuck up it means sitting out the rest of the round for 30, 40, 50 minutes. Or a few players rarely get to try out combat too often.

But perhaps there should be some form of a downside to using the VR sleeper to prevent people staying in them the entire shift/round. You should be able to be easily killed while inside a VR sleeper etc.

He's pessimistic because of how similar features functioned (like VR in terms of pulling players) and its effects historically, and in that sense he's 100% correct.

The advantage is that players aren't really pulled from the round, they remain in it and not only that, easy to fuck with. Generally a limited amount of sleepers too.

The gateway was kinda a black hole that would draw people in, remove them from the station and if people came back they'd carry loot with them and derail the round further.

[Shadowflame909]

So, I've played a VR round with the fix testmerged. I went on it and played VR. It was fun for a minute or two. There were no people around. I saw the HOP come up and say "Get back in, I'm gonna fight you." So, I get back in. I die due to some other assistant. I then see ghosts and realize that the VR machine was emagged. IT WAS A STEALTHY KILLER. The hop then put my body on a chair and asked for more people to join VR. It thus created a fun stealth killer gimmick, where innocent assistants went into the machines and never came out. Maybe a lot of people just liked to play VR?

I honestly can't wait for the traitor tc/wizard practice VR maps. I think people will play this a bit more since it's new. But, I can't really see it overtaking rounds like the gateway. I'd call it as time consuming as the holodeck. It's a good feature, and the only thing to really worry about is the first time new feature hype.

Edit: I'm really into it, but a feature that I think would be cool. Is to remove the log out button in an emagged VR machine. Also to be able to force other people to connect in VR. Gotta keep those traitor gimmicks fresh!

[Mark9013100]

Orion Trail VR when

[Shadowflame909]

We should allow borgs to be able to enter VR sleepers. For the sole purpose of seeing them flip there shit when humans are constantly dying and disappearing and reviving. It'd be kinda interesting how a peacekeeper borg would react. They'd certainly spice up the odds of winning.

[Saegrimr]

Is the dueling arena the only one currently? Trying out all the guns was pretty cool, got to practice robust shooting techniques with another greyshirt.
More than half the guns didn't have firing pins for some reason and couldn't be used.
Bodies and bullet casings pile up very fast and looks like shit, should probably run some periodic arena cleanup.
Could use more windows and less vision obscuring walls, lasers don't seem to go through the windows anyway.

6/10 its okay

[somerandomguy]

Is the dueling arena the only one currently? Trying out all the guns was pretty cool, got to practice robust shooting techniques with another greyshirt.
More than half the guns didn't have firing pins for some reason and couldn't be used.
Bodies and bullet casings pile up very fast and looks like shit, should probably run some periodic arena cleanup.
Could use more windows and less vision obscuring walls, lasers don't seem to go through the windows anyway.

6/10 its okay

There's a pin in each room

Also fake windows ugh

[Dax Dupont]

Is the dueling arena the only one currently? Trying out all the guns was pretty cool, got to practice robust shooting techniques with another greyshirt.
More than half the guns didn't have firing pins for some reason and couldn't be used.
Bodies and bullet casings pile up very fast and looks like shit, should probably run some periodic arena cleanup.
Could use more windows and less vision obscuring walls, lasers don't seem to go through the windows anyway.

6/10 its okay

There's a pin in each room

Also fake windows ugh

30 pins per room

[oranges]

you can make guns spawn as not requiring pins iirc

[Denton]

You could probably define pin = /obj/item/firing_pin for each VR gun or define /vr subtypes that do the same? There has to be a better way though.

[Dax Dupont]

You could probably define pin = /obj/item/firing_pin for each VR gun or define /vr subtypes that do the same? There has to be a better way though.

I really don't want to do subtypes, I don't want to do var edits either.

Maybe I'll make spawners eventually for them that defines pins on the things that are spawned, but someone else was gonna partially rework the murderdome so.

[Nabski]

GUNDAM MECH BATTLES WHEN?

[somerandomguy]

Mechpilot outfit, gives you a device that lets you call in a mech and equipment