Character traits

Xhuis · Post by **Xhuis** » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:10 pm #392513

Bottom post of the previous page:

DemonFiren wrote:Monochromacy belongs to mimes and detectives.

skyrim belongs to the nords

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:09 am #394610

Dog Person/Cat Person: Changes what animal you get a moodlet boost from petting.

because runtime > ian goddamnit

Xhuis · Post by **Xhuis** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:34 pm #394646

That is hilarious. I'd love to see how people react to the PR titled "Adds the Dog Person and Cat Person traits."

Mickyan · Post by **Mickyan** » Tue Mar 27, 2018 4:46 pm #394687

Greedy: Get a stackable buff from having coins/space bucks in your inventory.
Cold Blooded: take less damage from cold but more damage from heat
Hot Blooded: viceversa
Empath: See other people's traits and/or mood by inspecting them. May have some metagaming issues like being able to figure out if someone is an antag by whether or not they have pacifism, but it could be solved by having a "fake pacifism" trait replacing the real one when you get antag instead of just going away?
Slow metabolism: slightly decreases metabolism rate for all chemicals. I'm not too familiar with the balance implications for this but I guess it comes with both pros and cons. Just throwing this out there.

Pacifism has a few small issues:
You can still hit things with harm intent if you click fast enough before it's auto-switched.
You can't splash containers on the floor without harm intent, unless you do it fast enough, see above.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Wed Mar 28, 2018 1:45 am #394827

Xhuis wrote:That is hilarious. I'd love to see how people react to the PR titled "Adds the Dog Person and Cat Person traits."

fucking do it

Polyphynx · Post by **Polyphynx** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 4:19 am #395284

Social anxiety could still use a bit more balancing.
At the moment, the muting happens incredibly often. I'm pretty sure I'm muted more often than I'm not.
It's not a huge deal, and it is a negative trait, but it does get a bit annoying getting muted every 10 seconds. The stuttering on the other hand is great! Often having perfect comedic timing.

Xhuis · Post by **Xhuis** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:44 am #395348

The muting just got rebalanced to be based around how many people you're near, so let me know how that plays out.

Polyphynx · Post by **Polyphynx** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:10 pm #395393

Oh sorry, that's with I meant. With the new changes.
It lasts for about 20 seconds I think? At times I'd be muted for over a minute since it kept happening one after the other, while standing next to maybe two people.

Post by **Shaps-cloud** » Thu Mar 29, 2018 3:49 pm #395405

When I tried using Social Anxiety last night on Bagil I ended up feeling muted more often than I could talk, maybe just because of all the people passing by. Perhaps make the anxiety attacks force you to whisper instead of full mute? That seems less frustrating while still being thematic, plus it gets people to use whisper more

Also maybe make the anxiety attack muting a status effect with a badge so you can see when you become unmuted and don't have to keep hammering Ctrl+up enter

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:50 am #395865

Illiteracy: Cannot read paper, use PDAs, read the names and job titles on IDs or PDAs (show up as ??? to you), use computers, read or write on paper

For hard mode players only.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:55 am #395868

related: dyslexia
you can read, but words sometimes have wrong letters in them making them more difficult to process
if you write you write like you talk when drunk

Mickyan · Post by **Mickyan** » Sat Mar 31, 2018 7:45 pm #396091

I had a similar experience with social anxiety, on average it feels like it actually got worse with the last rebalance and it's often impossible to have a conversation anywhere public, either needs to be a major negative or a big nerf

I'm pretty sure Brain Damage is broken, after a few 30+ min rounds without seeing any effects I went on a local server to test it and the brain damage stops at 0.2. Oddly enough if you give yourself some brain damage it starts to tick again up to 3.8 and seemingly starts to build up normally only if you get past 15.

On the other hand when the buildup works it's a bit ridiculous, you need to chug mannitol constantly to survive. I can't imagine anyone using it unless they're purposefully trying to give themselves brain traumas for the hell of it.

Xhuis · Post by **Xhuis** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:22 am #396150

Not sure who added the brain damage trait, so I can't be sure how it works. I'll take a look at it and Social Anxiety when the feature freeze is over.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:07 am #396181

It appears to do a constant 0.2% brain damage per tick if I read the code correctly

Mark9013100 · Post by **Mark9013100** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:11 am #396184

-snip-, wrong thread

Mickyan · Post by **Mickyan** » Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:37 am #396228

Anonmare wrote:It appears to do a constant 0.2% brain damage per tick if I read the code correctly

Yeah, it just seems to stop at certain values for whatever reason.
With 0.2/tick it would take about THREE MINUTES without mannitol to start getting brain traumas, and it's kind of absurd. If you lower it to at least 0.05 you'd have to take medication every 12 minutes which would be a bit more reasonable.

Xhuis · Post by **Xhuis** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:07 pm #397613

The feature freeze got a temporary thaw that let me open a PR to do some tweaking. I added two new neutral traits, called Cat Person and Dog Person, caused mood-affecting traits to be unpurchaseable if moodlets are disabled in config, and tweaked Social Anxiety again. Now instead of having a minimum 3% chance, with 1% for each person near you, it has a maximum 3% chance, with the same scaling. This makes it only trigger from being people and should hopefully be much less frustrating.

SpaceInaba · Post by **SpaceInaba** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:18 pm #397617

smoker trait that makes me spawn with a zippo and a nicotine addiction when

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:25 pm #397621

Diabetic trait that makes you have to manage your insulin and blood sugar levels

SpaceInaba · Post by **SpaceInaba** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:25 pm #397622

Anonmare wrote:Diabetic trait that makes you have to manage your insulin and blood sugar levels

this is actually a really interesting idea

Xhuis · Post by **Xhuis** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:50 pm #397641

lots of ones that I could implement, but they'll need to wait until after the freeze as the thaw is only good for one PR

SpaceInaba · Post by **SpaceInaba** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:55 pm #397645

just robustin-cram a bunch of new traits into the same pr what could pawsubbly go wrong

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:58 pm #397649

I would actually love a proper nicotine addiction where you will get negative moods if you don't get a dose of nicotine every few minutes.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:48 pm #398445

Wyzack wrote:I would actually love a proper nicotine addiction where you will get negative moods if you don't get a dose of nicotine every few minutes.

Should be able to junction that into the addictions system we already have.

Post by **oranges** » Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:28 pm #398548

if you don't want social anxiety, don't take the trait

SpaceInaba · Post by **SpaceInaba** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:43 pm #399007

suggestion: faulty memory, clears your chat every 5-10 seconds
this is not a ploy to make everybody suffer like I do when I have to do fix chat every 5 seconds to use machines or anything

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:04 pm #399013

add it as korsakoff's syndrome and also make it a consequence of overdosing on alcohol

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:50 pm #399020

Kind of wish there was a way to pick favorite cigs and favorite food but i'm sure most people would just powergame donk pockets if that was an available option.

That said donk pockets should automatically be a favorite of Janitor

Xeroxemnas · Post by **Xeroxemnas** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:10 pm #399026

Anonmare wrote:Diabetic trait that makes you have to manage your insulin and blood sugar levels

That's a cool and pretty easy idea to implement probably.

Just spawn with a blood glucose meter and maybe a few insulin syringes.

Post by **MMMiracles** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:15 pm #399029

Saegrimr wrote:Kind of wish there was a way to pick favorite cigs and favorite food but i'm sure most people would just powergame donk pockets if that was an available option.

That said donk pockets should automatically be a favorite of Janitor

People who'd do that probably also set mac n' cheese as their sim's favorite food in Sims. You could add an 'exoticness' variable to various consumables so you could benefit more from something like a Cuban cigar over generic cigarettes.

Mickyan · Post by **Mickyan** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:32 pm #404519

I added a new major negative trait called Acute Blood Deficiency, I'm interested to hear your thoughts if it's something you're interested in trying. Essentially, your blood is constantly being drained at a slow rate.

It can feel a bit daunting at first because blood levels are something you often take for granted in the current medical system, so I figured I'd give you some tips on how to make it manageable:
-Nutrition level is the most important thing: stay well fed, eat often, stick to healthy food and the blood loss is going to be almost negligible.
-In order of effectiveness from lowest to highest, these are the most common ways to treat blood loss: Iron (grind a few iron sheets in the holodeck), bloody mary, saline-glucose solution (despite what the wiki says, you don't need an IV drip), blood transfusions.
-Always check your blood level when you get hurt, you don't get the luxury of regenerating it on your own.
-When your blood level is too low you'll start to taking oxygen damage, salbutamol and ephinephrine can buy you enough time to get treatment.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:14 pm #404552

that reminds me, sickle-cell anaemia when?

Ispiria · Post by **Ispiria** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:23 am #404740

An idea I had for one that could maybe even use existing code to impliment!

Ambilevous - Adds a random chance to fail when using tools/weapons.

Similar to clown clumsiness, except with things like surgical tools or crowbars and wrenches as well as guns, just a chance to fail because it's the opposite of the ambidexterity everyone seems to have.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:13 am #404750

Handedness would actually be kinda nice to have in-game.

teepeepee · Post by **teepeepee** » Thu May 03, 2018 11:44 am #406665

Mickyan wrote:I added a new major negative trait called Acute Blood Deficiency, I'm interested to hear your thoughts if it's something you're interested in trying. Essentially, your blood is constantly being drained at a slow rate.

It can feel a bit daunting at first because blood levels are something you often take for granted in the current medical system, so I figured I'd give you some tips on how to make it manageable:
-Nutrition level is the most important thing: stay well fed, eat often, stick to healthy food and the blood loss is going to be almost negligible.
-In order of effectiveness from lowest to highest, these are the most common ways to treat blood loss: Iron (grind a few iron sheets in the holodeck), bloody mary, saline-glucose solution (despite what the wiki says, you don't need an IV drip), blood transfusions.
-Always check your blood level when you get hurt, you don't get the luxury of regenerating it on your own.
-When your blood level is too low you'll start to taking oxygen damage, salbutamol and ephinephrine can buy you enough time to get treatment.

Very fun and challenging, although I would like to point out Iron is extremely shit at dealing with this, since it barely keeps it from going down, not improve your situation (at least at the current drain rate), same thing with vitamins. Saline glucose is the best solution, since its easily produced and there's more stock of it available roundstart, but it wont raise your blood above 98%.

Lazengann · Post by **Lazengann** » Thu May 03, 2018 12:10 pm #406675

The blood thing sounds very neat, thanks for adding it!

Mickyan · Post by **Mickyan** » Thu May 03, 2018 12:36 pm #406679

teepeepee wrote: Very fun and challenging, although I would like to point out Iron is extremely shit at dealing with this, since it barely keeps it from going down, not improve your situation (at least at the current drain rate), same thing with vitamins. Saline glucose is the best solution, since its easily produced and there's more stock of it available roundstart, but it wont raise your blood above 98%.

It will raise your blood level, albeit slowly, if you're well fed (nutrition has a major role in blood regeneration - if you're starving you will bleed out REALLY fast), but yes it's the weakest option you got just offset by the fact it's very easy to come by in large quantities

onleavedontatme · Thu May 03, 2018 3:12 pm

Cool concept and probably workable into something more fun but a huge waste of potential right now.

Outside of a few people who take the challenge traits like poor aim or pacifist it mostly seems to be used to cancel out moodlets right now, or to take the negative traits that arent really negative so they can get a few random buffs. Tons of people with prosthetic/heavy sleeper/heirloom.

tl;dr good idea but lacklustre options, easily gamed

SpaceInaba · Post by **SpaceInaba** » Thu May 03, 2018 3:22 pm #406740

imo positives should still have their own downsides
dumb idea following this: maybe a prototype toolset implant that is slower than a normal toolset implant and makes your arm explode (because its a prototype lol meme) when emped, so you have a tradeoff to not needing a toolbelt
of course this has its own issues with it but it's a positive with a downside I'm just using it as an example dont shoot me pls

Xhuis · Post by **Xhuis** » Thu May 03, 2018 3:30 pm #406742

All the initial positive traits right now are designed to have minimal impact on the overall gameplay, for two reasons:
1. I wanted to see if traits in general would be well-received and liked as a whole
2. I didn't know how much traits should impact gameplay in the positive way, so I focused on challenge traits instead
With the current framework, it'd be very easy to implement traits that are powerful and impact the round, but I don't know if these would work with /tg/, nor how well they would be received. As for "free points", there will always be negatives that are better to take for certain playstyles. Someone who prefers to avoid fights and combat has no reason not to take something like Pacifist or Heavy Sleeper, and a medical doctor can easily treat their Acute Blood Deficiency with readily-available supplies in med.

Mickyan · Post by **Mickyan** » Thu May 03, 2018 3:51 pm #406744

I wouldn't underestimate Prosthetic Limb, EMPs do damage and cause you to get stunned for a long time, they break off easily and you need to go through the extra step to repair them rather than just getting shoved in a sleeper. I've seen multiple people in deadchat saying they ended up regretting picking it up.

I agree some negatives like heavy sleeper are too niche to be considered real disadvantages (if you get put to sleep in a bad situation it's unlikely an extra couple of seconds are going to make a difference) and we need more traits that are interesting to play with for better or worse instead of being there for number/variety. Heirloom should be neutral since it's a double edged sword but since mood is disabled it's not really a discussion worth having.

SpaceInaba · Post by **SpaceInaba** » Thu May 03, 2018 4:18 pm #406755

Im still sad prosthetic limb is random, I want a persistent limb that is prosthetic but I can't get it :C

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Thu May 03, 2018 5:36 pm #406775

SpaceInaba wrote:Im still sad prosthetic limb is random, I want a persistent limb that is prosthetic but I can't get it :C

This tbh. Muh roleplay, having a character who is persistently crippled in a specific way sounds cool

Post by **oranges** » Fri May 04, 2018 1:24 am #406866

>kor complains that moodlets get too much in the way of playing the game and make them anxious
>kor complains that traits dont' affect teh game enough and don't see to do anything

what's her angle?

iksyp · Post by **iksyp** » Mon May 07, 2018 5:32 pm #407918

there needs to be more traits and no limit on them

onleavedontatme · Mon May 07, 2018 11:56 pm

oranges wrote:>kor complains that moodlets get too much in the way of playing the game and make them anxious
>kor complains that traits dont' affect teh game enough and don't see to do anything

what's her angle?

I'm psychotic

Also traits are opt in so I'd like the choices to be meaningful

Alex Crimson · Tue May 08, 2018 2:43 am

iksyp wrote:there needs to be more traits and no limit on them

At the very least no limit on the bad traits so people can play HARDMODE.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Tue May 08, 2018 2:52 am #408107

The only reason I took traits is to counter moodlets anyway so it's whatever at this point.

Doctor Pork · Post by **Doctor Pork** » Tue May 08, 2018 9:48 pm #408341

Can we reenable the family heirloom trait? I know moodlets are out right now but I really liked my "Ramos family space law" it was super cool to have and moodlets got disabled before I had a chance to smack a criminal with it.

Gamarr · Post by **Gamarr** » Wed May 09, 2018 1:10 pm #408503

Kor wrote:Cool concept and probably workable into something more fun but a huge waste of potential right now.

Outside of a few people who take the challenge traits like poor aim or pacifist it mostly seems to be used to cancel out moodlets right now, or to take the negative traits that arent really negative so they can get a few random buffs. Tons of people with prosthetic/heavy sleeper/heirloom.

tl;dr good idea but lacklustre options, easily gamed

Kor wrote: Also traits are opt in so I'd like the choices to be meaningful

This is just what tg fucking does. Keep jamming shit in without any real plan. Maybe Kor wants an actual schedule and structure to go with quality-of-life code. It was hit on the head: it's just going to be gamed to shit as the freebies are taken. This is the game with nuke op TDM and one side gets a SAW and these moodlets and Optional traits is what amounts to yet another tg boondoggle.

captain sawrge · Wed May 09, 2018 3:54 pm

Gamarr wrote:
Kor wrote:Cool concept and probably workable into something more fun but a huge waste of potential right now.

Outside of a few people who take the challenge traits like poor aim or pacifist it mostly seems to be used to cancel out moodlets right now, or to take the negative traits that arent really negative so they can get a few random buffs. Tons of people with prosthetic/heavy sleeper/heirloom.

tl;dr good idea but lacklustre options, easily gamed

Kor wrote: Also traits are opt in so I'd like the choices to be meaningful
This is just what tg fucking does. Keep jamming shit in without any real plan. Maybe Kor wants an actual schedule and structure to go with quality-of-life code. It was hit on the head: it's just going to be gamed to shit as the freebies are taken. This is the game with nuke op TDM and one side gets a SAW and these moodlets and Optional traits is what amounts to yet another tg boondoggle.

your last connection was several weeks prior to this being merged