Shitty antag idea: Synths/Android

pogoco25 · Post by **pogoco25** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 4:34 pm #404066

So I heard something about an antag crisis so Im here to contribute to the circlejerk and give you Androids. Now you may be saying "Pogoco, we already have androids as a xenobio race!" This is true, but I feel like we can do more with androids, or more specifically, Synths (dont have to be named synths but similar concept)

basically, Synths are robotic infiltrators that pretend to be human, but in reality are machines. Similar to Traitors or Changelings, Synths have several objectives they need to fufill. To complete these tasks, they use a varied set of tools on their subdermal robotic frame.

When synths begin the shift, they choose from a set list of distrobutions that give them passive and active abilities based on what you pick. "Assault" for example gives several weapons such as a gun with similar stats to a stetchkin in your finger as well as passive effects such as damage resistance and stronger punches. Or you may take the "Sabotuer" distrobution, which may include a built in emag(which should have a cooldown, and I think traitors' emags should have a cooldown, but I digress.) and may have passive AI tracking blocking.

Being machines, they have the weaknesses of other silicons. EMPs stun them for a short time, and they take big damage from ion weapons.

I belive that a 3rd stealthy antag would be good for the game as it would add another layer of distrust and paranoia, which the game is missing sorely.

What do yall think? Im open to suggestions and criticism. I would love to hear your input!

Post by **Armhulen** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:13 pm #404087

i'm worried this is a mechanical changeling. should i be?

Durkel · Post by **Durkel** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:25 pm #404089

So basically snatcher?

Thread theme

somerandomguy · Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:29 pm

Androids aren't a xenobio race anymore.

It wouldn't be as bad as ling because ling lets you mix different types of abilities - the armblade+adrenals+fleshmend+FREE REVIVE WITH NO DNA COST is the worst offender. This would have built-in abilities too but would only let you choose one category and get all in that category - a bit like a ling that has armblade+tentacle+stings but nothing else (this includes no revive and maybe also transform) or revive+fleshmend+adrenals or voicechange+transform+transformsting+dnasting+camo+invis.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:36 pm #404097

I've suggested this before

pogoco25 · Post by **pogoco25** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 6:32 pm #404129

@Anonmare I checked out that thread. I think its a good start, what with the stealth mode/combat mode. I think that we could add on a bit to get an actual core antagonist though, rather than another seldom seen side antag. But overall I like it!

Ayy Lemoh · Post by **Ayy Lemoh** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:17 pm #404174

pogoco25 wrote:"Assault" for example gives several weapons such as a gun with similar stats to a stetchkin in your finger as well as passive effects such as damage resistance and stronger punches

Let's assume I am unoriginal murderboner #71237.
Tell me why I shouldn't pick this if I just wanted to be a dick and kill everyone.

In all seriousness, we already have synths as admin only spawns. While this would be cool and shit, I feel like it would only work as a traitorchan replacement otherwise I feel like some or most people wouldn't want this.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:50 pm #404194

Not a bad idea. I'd love to see it fleshed out.

pogoco25 · Post by **pogoco25** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:58 am #404269

@Ayy Lemoh Well, this can be flipped for any antag. What's stopping you from getting a dsword/revolver and murderboning as a traitor? what's stopping you from picking up armblade/revive/healing/armor/shield/whatever as a ling and murderboning? Really this isnt an issue only seen here, but it still has merit as a concern. My rationale is that ion weapons/emps are a hard stop to synths, in addition to standard forms of rosbustment. Assault can certainly defend itself, but it doesnt get any stun immunity so really just taze and beat to death, just like any other subpar murderboner.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:13 am #404326

To keep this from being "mechanical ling", we could make the abilities emphasize computers/technology/etc. rather than biological stuff. Hacking airlocks and terminals, short range EMPs, fabricating items, etc.

pogoco25 · Post by **pogoco25** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:43 pm #404401

Yeah that's what I thought. For example I pictured the Sabotuer having a ranged emag on a 10 second or so cooldown, for instance. I also thought of being able to scan ID cards and copy access but that's literally agent card so I kinda scrapped that

SpaceManiac · Post by **SpaceManiac** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:06 pm #404433

Luke Cox wrote:fabricating items

The evil robot man deserves a built-in autolathe.

Selea · Post by **Selea** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 7:55 pm #404445

Honestly, I can't see yet, why it isn't shitty mechanical ling.
I'd rather make synths even shittier. But with ability to build their copies with appearances of other crewmembers. So it will be something between ash liggers (vile golems)and mechanical lings.
Also they should steal appearances like abductors does. And should be able to print any amount of their copies with same appearance.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:07 pm #404453

>as it would add another layer of distrust and paranoia,

careful what you wish for lad

in the next breath you'll be wishing for more roleplay and less powergaming

Shadowflame909 · Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:05 pm

Will they get some roundstart combat upgrades? Like the toolbelt implant? Or the weapon belt implant I mean.

pogoco25 · Post by **pogoco25** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:41 pm #404527

>Too similar to ling
> let's make it copy people and steal their appearance

pogoco25 · Post by **pogoco25** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:42 pm #404528

@Shadowflame Depends on what distribution you take. you may get something like that or maybe not.

Selea · Post by **Selea** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:48 pm #404534

Ling is stealth death machine.
Synth can be much more expendable. But weaker.

pogoco25 · Post by **pogoco25** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:52 pm #404537

I see, I see. interesting. So, correct me if im wrong, but your idea is sort of like stealthy Swarmers?

Selea · Post by **Selea** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:15 pm #404553

What similar to swarmers:
1.They can reproduce.
2.They needs resources to reproduce.
3.They are expendable. And accepts ghosts as new members.
4. They are looks like choosed human.
What different to swarmers:
1. They need to place special machine in secure place to do it.
2. They need more resources on one synth.
3. They can't disassemble everything with bare hands.
4. They have hands.

What similar to lings:
1. They can take appearance of another human.
2. They have hidden superpowers.
3. They have objectives.
4. They have hivemind/codespeak.
What different to lings:
1. They have far less and far weaker powers. I suggest to grant them 3-6 random powers at creation. Which can't be changed(or requires some complex shenanigans).
2. They can't change their appearance.
3. They are made from metal.
4. They are detectable. Med sensor will give random readings. Also EMP works too.

Also they should be very...useful. their parts can be transplanted to humans, can be used to research alien tech, salvage resources, plenty of options.

Lore:
Abductors use synths to research another species from inside.

Post by **Armhulen** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:52 pm #404568

No offense at all but like if your antagonist is most similar to changelings and swarmers i really doubt players would like fighting them much... is this a fair post to make? i dunno!

pogoco25 · Post by **pogoco25** » Fri Apr 27, 2018 11:56 pm #404569

Interesting concept, sort of like stealthy xenos. my concern is that we already have xenos/swarmers/spiders that are neat ghost roles that overwhelm the station. That being said, we could still have my sort of starting class system, sort of like the xeno castes. Anyway, I have a few other questions
1. What are the objectives like, if they can reproduce, do they all share the same objective?
2. What resources do they use? metal? parts? human flesh? all three?
3. The lore tie in with abductors is neat, but if they are designed to observe other species, then why can they reproduce and take over the station? Perhaps, seeing as abductors are unfathomably scientifically advanced, Synths are more of a weapon, while the research teams sent in the actual game mode are only there for the science?
4. Is it a main antag or side antag? Honestly I think it can work as either.
5. Armhulen makes a valid point. I dont know how fun it would be to fight a stream of endlessly replicating weaker changelings. That being said, I dont think we should scrap the concept.

Post by **Armhulen** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:02 am #404572

It's a great concept, I just don't know how to go about it

pogoco25 · Post by **pogoco25** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:23 am #404581

well, if it were up to me, some ideas for answers may be
1. Objectives are probably things based on either "Reach x amount of synths" and/or blown up versions of traitor objectives such as "Assassinate the Captain, CMO, HoP, an Assistant, a Chef, and a Security officer" and "Steal every High-Risk Item" every synth gets this objective, and they all win or lose together.
2. They probably use primarily metal, but if we wanted we could take some things from Golem and change the synth's abilities/stats based on the materials used to make it. I.E Plasteel-based synths take less damage but are more obvious due to purple, plasma-y eyes, for instance
4. I think, if we go with the blown up traitor objectives, they can work as a main antag, but I dont know if they are threatening enough for that. time will tell
5. Well, if they are produced from one machine, it could result in a station wide hunt to find the machine, while fighting other synths, or maybe the person who said they knew where it was was a synth themselves and led you on a wild goose chase? idk.

Selea · Post by **Selea** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:51 am #404634

1.
Get list of certain organs.
Steal x library books.
Get tech disks.
Get wizard costume.
Spread abductor virus to X people.
Perform x brainwash surgeries.
...
Objectives should be absurd at best and fairly easy to perform. But list of objecfives should be big. So replication needs to cover them all. All synth have same objectives.
2. Let's say metal, plastic. But whatever. I'm not sure about it yet.
3. Scientists use different methods to study subject. So abductor teams is one approach. Synths is another.
4.It could be main. But I don't like concept of main antags. iMO there should be only side antags/ghost roles with different probablities to occur.
5. It isn't not swarmers, nor changelings. They just have some similarities.
They can't endlessly replicate. Because their machine could be destroyed. Even if they could build one more, it's expensive. And destruction of one machine could be devastating.
They aren't lings. Because far less powerful. And can't change appearance. Only apply before creation of new synth.
They aren't swarmers. Because they can't wreak shit so easily and have far less reproduction rate.
They aren't xenos. Because no need to kill anyone.

Since they are research units, most of their abilities are stealthy and peaceful.

pogoco25 · Post by **pogoco25** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:03 am #404735

I can get behind a generally peaceful antag, tbh. less of a direct threat to the crew and more of a threat to NT's research/secrets. Not sure if the tiding masses can get behind it though. Then again that's what stealth is for.
As for the machine, who initially creates the machine? Is there some "Head Synth?"
Do synths have laws? even if they're similar to Swarmer laws where it's more guidelines than anything

Selea · Post by **Selea** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:23 am #404777

1. Mostly peaceful. But not harmless. They will steal much resources. They can beat someone. Part of objectives will be harmful to work on station.
2.Stealth is mostly for confusion and to avoid being valid from start.
3. There aren't head synth.
4. There should be laws. But I can't suggest them yet.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:09 am #404782

Don't railroad them on one path or another. Give them a balanced collection of interesting tools, thematic and impactful objectives, and let them go to town. Speaking of objectives, I imagine things like stealing research levels, siphoning credits from the vault, collecting a shard from the supermatter, stealing IDs, etc.

Screemonster · Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:01 am

I'm just picturing the one with a gun built into its hand being stealthy right up until it blasts someone and then the synth flesh is gone from its hand and it has to wear gloves. which are blasted off and destroyed if it shoots again.

pogoco25 · Post by **pogoco25** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:25 pm #404845

Yeah...tbh I've had time to think about it and Luke has the right idea.
We should be aiming to make them more varied. Plus I honestly don't think they need to replicate, it feels unnecessary. However the abductors lore can totally stay.

Selea · Post by **Selea** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:56 pm #404893

Non replicating powerful stealth antag is ling.
Non replicating powerful non stealth antag is wizard.
Non replicating weak stealth antag is missing IIRC.
Non replicating weak non stealth antag is sentient slime.
Replicating powerful stealth(?) antag is xeno.
Replicating powerful non stealth antag is swarmer.
Replicating weak non stealth antag is ash ligger.
Replicating weak stealth antag could be synths.

Why replication could be more interesting?
1.More differences with lings.
2.Synths will need to plan appearance and abilities(at second thought, it's better if abilities will be set up at stage of printing) of new synth.Which could be more interesting, than just individual progression.
3.Possibly,they could upgrade their replicator to get more powerful abilities and more slots for them.So old versions could be recycled to build new ones.So, (self)sacrifice in need to advance could be interesting mechanics.
4.If synths are clever, they could store some scanned appearances for future use.Maybe, with murder of original humans.But if they are dumb(and they will be dumb from time to time) , they will print loads of same guys. Which will look funny.
5.Viable feature of abductors is great loot. Synth should provide it too. But at this rate, they could be vanished too easily without replication.

Post by **Armhulen** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:07 pm #404894

I'm sad this thread didn't go in the direction of the synths having objectives like becoming all of the heads

Selea · Post by **Selea** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:14 pm #404896

Oh fuck.How could we miss it?certainly YES!

pogoco25 · Post by **pogoco25** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:36 pm #404900

Ok yeah good point. that would be interesting. What kind of abilities would there be?

Shadowflame909 · Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:33 pm

How would the ai feel about synths? And y'know what'd be cool. A synth should be able to steal the ai with one of those ai stealer devices. Be able to implement it inside of them, and now slowly corrupt the ai and eventually gain sentient all access. I call it the explosive danger zone method of getting all access and an all seeing eye.

Selea · Post by **Selea** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:41 pm #404935

autolathe organ
abductor stunhand
abductor surgery tools hand
abductor tools hand
magnetic manipulator(telekinesis for metal things without throwing)
door remote
emp
nodrop(can't drop items unwillingly)
laser eyes
x-ray eyes
better legs(faster ones)
...
all their powers are basically organs.So they could be transplanted.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:43 pm #404948

I like the idea of their more powerful abilities blowing off their synthflesh on certain body parts, and having to regenerate it over time. Getting some from chemistry can speed up the process, but asking for a bunch of synthflesh patches will look extremely suspicious

pogoco25 · Post by **pogoco25** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:48 pm #404950

The faster legs should be toggleable so that you can move at normal speed if you need to.
The Sythns are not human, so if an AI knows someone is a synth they can take them out. as for stealing the AI, there could be something similar to what Clock Cult does and be able to hack the AI or something.
As for the synth machine, I think there could be some kind of console attached to the machine. on the console are several high profile abilities that have lenghty cooldowns/limited uses such as delaying the shuttle, locking consoles like RnD and Cargo (while a machine is locked, the image is replaced with an abductor head or just an abductor symbol), things like that.

pogoco25 · Post by **pogoco25** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:52 pm #404951

Oh yeah it could totally be synthflesh on them that's pretty neato

Selea · Post by **Selea** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:40 pm #404971

not bad idea about console.But there is question, how synths will get boards for their machines?special circuit imprintor organ?

pogoco25 · Post by **pogoco25** » Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:42 pm #405000

You mean the machine for producing more synths? Well, they have a built in autolathe, right? Perhaps they can produce Alien Bluspace Beacons, that when activated warp in the machine, sort of like how starcraft protoss do it? Once a machine has been made, no other synths can make more.

Selea · Post by **Selea** » Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:29 am #405016

I mean both console and reproducting machine.
I don't think, that it's good idea. they should be constructable. It will make possible more complex tactics.Anyway, machine construction is pain in ass.This machine should be even more painful.

pogoco25 · Post by **pogoco25** » Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:15 am #405025

Sure, sure. In that case an internal circut printer could work, just make sure no one sees you drinking sulphuric acid and having a lovely side dish of glass panes

somerandomguy · Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:22 am

pogoco25 wrote:Sure, sure. In that case an internal circut printer could work, just make sure no one sees you drinking sulphuric acid and having a lovely side dish of glass panes

Circuits don't need acid anymore

pogoco25 · Post by **pogoco25** » Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:31 am #405031

Right my bad

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:56 am #405046

I would caution against making these guys too complicated. Circuit printers seem a little extreme for something that was imagined as a specialized science department. Here's a rough breakdown of what I had in mind:

Physical attributes:

Appears as normal human unless synthflesh is damaged. Synthflesh slowly regenerates over time
"Eats" metal and glass to fuel internal autolathe
When any limb takes too much damage, synthflesh falls off for that limb
Immune to radiation and oxyloss. Highly vulnerable to EMPs
Spaceworthy, but damage from cold will quickly cause synthflesh to fall off
Electrocution causes synthflesh to instantly fall off

These guys would have quite a few passive advantages, but unlike lings, they can be reliably tested for.

Sample abilities:

Hacking: Temporarily elevates equipped ID to captain level for purpose of ID check on airlock/console
Shotgun arm: Fires a concealed shotgun on the right arm. Destroys synthflesh on arm with each use. Holds two shells at a time, will use internal metal to slowly replenish ammo
Leg actuators: Increases running speed drastically. Destroys synthflesh on legs on use
EMP: Lets out a short-mid range EMP, does not affect user
Internal autolathe: Has an internal autolathe that uses consumed glass and metal. Spits out items on creation. Face must not be obstructed to use.

pogoco25 · Post by **pogoco25** » Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:09 am #405048

I think that's a good rundown. Not too complicated, not too simple. We still need a way to build the machine to create more. Im telling you we could always go with Alien Bluespace Beacons and construct additional pylons

Shadowflame909 · Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:25 am

My idea is that after the round goes on for a while, or at roundstart? The synth can use a very dangerous internal module. The Intellicard module. What it does is load an empty itellicard onto your torso icon and completely removes your entire human disguise. Showing the world your a synth. The rewards of this dangerous tactic? If you somehow card the ai (which will be double the delay and have a loading bar like if you were an xeno cracking open doors) They get law 0'd to follow your every order and you gain a new feature. The internal captains door remote. Which allows you to bolt, shock, or open any door with a flip of a switch! So yeah, it'd be basically like a visible intellicard on your torso. But it'd be a way cooler sentient emag!

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:34 am #405093

Ideally you'd need some kind of power purchasing or progression system. Not sure how that could work, but you could tie it to eating rare metals or valuable items maybe.

As for objectives, here's what I've got so far:

Steal research levels
Drain power from powernet
Obtain head IDs
Hijack the AI (card the AI, synth downloads themselves into the AI)
Siphon cargo credits

somerandomguy · Sun Apr 29, 2018 11:03 am

Luke Cox wrote:
Hacking: Temporarily elevates equipped ID to captain level for purpose of ID check on airlock/console

This is a terrible idea, this way they can use an if console to give access to another Id and then to theirs again