okay sir/madam/preferred pronoun, how would you like your mock meat done?

[Stickymayhem]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Then can he be banned from the forums and the discord?

I said time and again, he only talks to spout veganism and then dive into I was just pretending to be retarded, thus invalidating everything he and you said. Which is also why I got so passionate about this. He produces nothing of good intent here.

I don't even know how to format a response to 500 words of your strawman stuff without it being 1000 words of corrections and counter arguments but you kept it simple in that summary so I kept my response simple

[Stickymayhem]

Okay. I'll be back with a meme in an hour. It'll be on topic.

we could also just stop because I'm not really as committed to this as you and it doesn't seem fair that you're working this hard and getting stressed out when I'm just going to throw it in your face when I get bored because I have the attention span of a puppy

[Wyzack]

I think his point is that we should stop aggressively breeding livestock to feed to torture machines and let the ones that already exist live in refuges or whatever.

Industrial regulation is a nice idea but corporations have proven over and over that unless they are dragged kicking and screaming to do something that impacts their bottom line negatively they will not, ever. Or they will pretend to but then keep doing what they have been doing behind the scenes. People changing to vegan diets actively harms their profits and is probably the best way to force them to change.

Not saying it is what I am doing or anything, but I see the logic and I find it hard to disagree.

Zoos are pretty universally fucking awful too, other than maybe some of the very highest budget ones the animals live pretty shitty lives in there. Animal testing is one that I think should probably stay, in terms of drug and medical tests. At some point you need to transition from in-vitro to in-vivo testing, and while animal models are not perfect they can sometimes catch toxic effects we might not find otherwise before testing on humans. This is I am sure a huge point of contention, but the fact of the matter is at some level we need to value human life over animal life.

[Lazengann]

Keeping bees and harvesting their excess honey is beneficial for both parties

[Stickymayhem]

I read a couple of books about animal testing and the conclusion for both is that it's really not worth it and even without the ethical argument it's expensive and dangerous because it doesn't give us enough useful info but some countries rely on it enough for it to cause massive problems.

A lot of the big horribly side effect things were tested on animals first. When stuff is caught in animal tests it's often not even relevant to humans either. Guinea pigs die to penicillin as an example

[captain sawrge]

Okay. I'll be back with a meme in an hour. It'll be on topic.

If it isn't a vegan recipes for kindergarteners it's not on topic.

[Stickymayhem]

Okay. I'll be back with a meme in an hour. It'll be on topic.

If it isn't a vegan recipes for kindergarteners it's not on topic.

post picks of what you decide to do with the tofu the suspense is killing me

[captain sawrge]

Okay. I'll be back with a meme in an hour. It'll be on topic.

If it isn't a vegan recipes for kindergarteners it's not on topic.

post picks of what you decide to do with the tofu the suspense is killing me

Almost definitely just going to pan fry it with some onions and throw it on rice

[Wyzack]

I dont do animal testing but I have seen data from people who do. The regulations here are INSANE and people have to jump through very rigorous hoops to justify any lab animal use as well as getting audited frequently

That is true about Guinea Pigs but it kinda misses the point. When you design an animal model you dont just pick an animal and start dosing them up with shit. You usually have to study all known data about the relevant metabolic pathways and engineer a simulation of whatever condition you are looking to replicate that is as closely relevant to the same system or condition in humans as possible. I don't think I would ever have the stomach to test on animals myself but I see the necessity.

I am sure other countries could do with an overhaul of these systems and I really can't speak for how it works in other places, but in Canada the animals are treated as well as possible and are only used when the massive cost can be justified

[captain sawrge]

Next time I go grocery shopping I'll pick up some more shit and try to do the scramble and maybe some other stuff but I kinda just bought it on a whim all I have are frozen vegetables and salt and pepper right now

[Lazengann]

Gluten is the real killer

[Armhulen]

[img]https://thumb.ibb.co/h5FCeH/A1_FEDAAE_31_CA_4_EE5_894_E_A1_BA86601_A99.jpg[/img]

Good I’m having another just for this thread

"KILLL MEEEEEEE"

[Stickymayhem]

[img]https://thumb.ibb.co/h5FCeH/A1_FEDAAE_31_CA_4_EE5_894_E_A1_BA86601_A99.jpg[/img]

Good I’m having another just for this thread

"KILLL MEEEEEEE"

If I was that cow looking down I would be pissed my life was wasted on that tragic meal

[Lazengann]

Sticky give me the lowdown on gluten

[Stickymayhem]

Sticky give me the lowdown on gluten

if you're not genuinely gluten intolerant then its fine

seitan is basically just gluten dough. it's an incredible source of protein, no fat and dirt cheap.

gluten ist guten

Anti strawman defence shield: I AM NOT ANTI FAT BY THE WAY WHEN I SAY NO FAT IT'S SHORTHAND FOR "DOES NOT HAVE THE BAD SATURATED FATS THAT MEAT HAS AND IS THEREFORE AN EXCELLENT ALTERNATIVE TO AN UNHEALTHIER SOURCE OF PROTEIN"

[IkeTG]

I'll have you know my genes are perhaps Mediterranean with a strong mixture of Irish, Welsh & English!

So an Irishman, Welshman and Englishman walk into a slaughterhouse...

[Wyzack]

QBMax your pathetic display of abhorrent burgercraft has brought shame onto the omnivores

[IkeTG]

omniVOREs

[SpaceInaba]

>sticky hands cosmic a shovel
>cosmic digs his own hole
STICKY STOP HELPING ME DIG MY HOLE AAAAAA

[Wyzack]

Cosmic it really seems like you are ignoring my posts dude. I am not a vegan nor will I likely convert but it is basically impossible to claim that factory farms are anything resembling humane with any sort of validity. The animals in factory farms dont run or get any time in the sun. They live in cramped indoor conditions of squalor and get the shit kicked out of them by the poor bastards who have no choice but to work in those places. You talk about this happening in countries with poor regulation but it happens in every country, there is plenty of evidence of this and none to the contrary.

Zoos and wildlife reserves/preservation facilities are not the same thing either.

[imblyings]

now to be fair, while ntr shouldn't have mods, if cosmic had mod he could have deleted this and spared us 511 posts of autism

[Armhulen]

now to be fair, while ntr shouldn't have mods, if cosmic had mod he could have deleted this and spared us 511 posts of autism

Vegan bait threads never again

[iksyp]

jesus christ i'm entirely apathetic to this vegan shit and all i see is 111* paragraphs about how activism is bad because they're doing their job as activists
fuck off

[Wyzack]

I think he mentioned something about refuges for factory livestock to live out their days or something? I dunno I don't drink the vegan koolaid so i dont have all the facts but they very well might be real

[imblyings]

will they fund that by selling half of them as burgers

[Wyzack]

the needs of the many. Their delicious sacrifice will spare the rest

[somerandomguy]

> around 27 hours
> 519 posts (well now it's 520 I guess)
> 11 pages
wew talk about a heated thread

[Stickymayhem]

there are lots of sanctuaries already with alive animals that live happily and sometimes have babies because some people are compassionate. they rescue from bad places and love their aminals

hypotheticals
real world vegan good end:
veganism becomes more and more common until laws preventing animal products are voted in, so we have reduced demand massively to the point that dismantling the industry is not as impossible as now

best case:
breeding stops, sick, dying animals are euthanized, healthy animals live out their days on sanctuaries funded by reparations

most likely case:
breeding stops, sanctuaries get filled up, overflow animals are culled, but they would have been killed for meat anyway

real world vegan medium rare end:
lab meat becomes economical, through economics and a bit of ethics, animal agriculture becomes obsolete because it's cheaper to make lab meat, real meat is phased out in favour of economical, environmentally friendlier, less resource intensive lab meat (lab meat is like 3-5 calories to 1 calorie instead of 16 like real meat)

real world vegan bad end:
the damage we do to the environment reaches a critical point, local environments collapse, food structures fail and food becomes more expensive. now feeding 16 calories of grain to get 1 calorie of meat is completely unfeasible and we are reduced to eating plant-based by necessity. the damage has been done, we failed and the plant is probably irreversibly ruined.

cosmic:
all animals everywhere are rounded up and deleted, followed by the human race, the last human shoots himself in the head then triggers the nukes in the planets core to detonate earth so that no suffering can ever happen again ever anywhere on earth

[Nabski]

What about non-animal proteins like lobster or other insects. You can technically feed mealworms off nothing but Styrofoam so that's calories for free from trash.

[Lazengann]

Like how does shearing a llama hurt the llama if it's hot out

[Stickymayhem]

Like how does shearing a llama hurt the llama if it's hot out

when you have to shear lots of llamas very very quickly and they dont like being held down and you are paid minimum wage you might throw the llamas or shear them roughly by necessity and that isn't nice to the llamas

i am purely speculating on this based on how sheep are shorn and i dont have specific llama abuse facts but i imagine its similar because most animals dont like to be held down by humans especially those used to being prey it really stresses them out and they struggle and hurt themselves even if the human is super careful not to hurt them

[onleavedontatme]

Yes Cosmic I have a Vegan Mindset(tm) which is to reduce suffering when realistic.

For that reason I will not be arguing with you anymore, this thread is clearly causing you suffering.

[Stickymayhem]

this is like if you try to upload a vegan lawset to a malf AI and it goes rogue and kills everyone

cosmic has literally gone malf levels of autism

also killing is harmful so your whole comic kind of falls apart there lol

killing everything doesn't reduce harm. you're causing more harm by doing that dumb dumb

also i said sanctuaries like four times

google animal sanctuaries

[onleavedontatme]

this is like if you try to upload a vegan lawset to a malf AI and it goes rogue and kills everyone

cosmic has literally gone malf levels of autism

is it breaking my promise 2 posts ago to say it is genuinely sad that he cant imagine a place for animals in the world except to be killed and eaten by humans

[Qbmax32]

Oh god I’m gonna cum

[Stickymayhem]

this is like if you try to upload a vegan lawset to a malf AI and it goes rogue and kills everyone

cosmic has literally gone malf levels of autism

is it breaking my promise 2 posts ago to say it is genuinely sad that he cant imagine a place for animals in the world except to be killed and eaten by humans

if i follow my vegan ideology I have to stop replying because it's clearly causing him harm

but if i follow cosmic's interpretation i just have to kill him

hhhhmmm?!!?

[IkeTG]

Oh god I’m gonna cum

Look what you people are doing to Qbmax, you're making him sad

[ShadowDimentio]

If you don't eat meat that's fine but don't be all high and mighty about it

[ShadowDimentio]

Also the shearing argument is fucking stupid, sheep at least have been bred for so long that they have to be sheared or their hair keeps growing until they can barely move.

[onleavedontatme]

If you don't eat meat that's fine but don't be all high and mighty about it

If you dont want to get upset that you are acting less moral than other people, have you considered acting more moral?

[onleavedontatme]

Not an argument

[ShadowDimentio]

If you don't eat meat that's fine but don't be all high and mighty about it

If you dont want to get upset that you are acting less moral than other people, have you considered acting more moral?

I'm not upset that some moralizing activists think I'm acting "immoral", I'm upset because they think they can traipse around on their self imposed moral high ground and try and take things away from other people. Even more so when they're things I like, like meat, milk, or wool.

Animals don't have rights beyond what we allow them to have, and as far as I'm concerned, unless you're tormenting an animal for literally no reason then I don't care.

[captain sawrge]

If you don't eat meat that's fine but don't be all high and mighty about it

If you dont want to get upset that you are acting less moral than other people, have you considered acting more moral?

I'm not upset that some moralizing activists think I'm acting "immoral", I'm upset because they think they can traipse around on their self imposed moral high ground and try and take things away from other people. Even more so when they're things I like, like meat, milk, or wool.

Animals don't have rights beyond what we allow them to have, and as far as I'm concerned, unless you're tormenting an animal for literally no reason then I don't care.

Equating activism to people actively depriving you of things is ultimate strawman

[onleavedontatme]

I'm not upset that some moralizing activists think I'm acting "immoral", I'm upset because they think they can traipse around on their self imposed moral high ground and try and take things away from other people.

Should I link you that time you argued for several pages in favour of putting people in prison for doing drugs or do you remember well enough

[ShadowDimentio]

Equating activism to people actively depriving you of things is ultimate strawman

real world vegan good end:
veganism becomes more and more common until laws preventing animal products are voted in, so we have reduced demand massively to the point that dismantling the industry is not as impossible as now

Their words not mine

[ShadowDimentio]

I'm not upset that some moralizing activists think I'm acting "immoral", I'm upset because they think they can traipse around on their self imposed moral high ground and try and take things away from other people.

Should I link you that time you argued for several pages in favour of putting people in prison for doing drugs or do you remember well enough

Not my argument, my argument was those people (people doing drugs) have agency for their actions.

[Stickymayhem]

Also the shearing argument is fucking stupid, sheep at least have been bred for so long that they have to be sheared or their hair keeps growing until they can barely move.

that doesnt mean they like being sheared. Just because we made them reliant on us doesn't make the process of shearing any better.

[ShadowDimentio]

Also the shearing argument is fucking stupid, sheep at least have been bred for so long that they have to be sheared or their hair keeps growing until they can barely move.

that doesnt mean they like being sheared. Just because we made them reliant on us doesn't make the process of shearing any better.

You have no way of knowing if they like it or not, and that’s not my point. My point is, if you DONT shear them they’re guaranteed to suffer.

[Stickymayhem]

Also the shearing argument is fucking stupid, sheep at least have been bred for so long that they have to be sheared or their hair keeps growing until they can barely move.

that doesnt mean they like being sheared. Just because we made them reliant on us doesn't make the process of shearing any better.

You have no way of knowing if they like it or not, and that’s not my point. My point is, if you DONT shear them they’re guaranteed to suffer.

I have no way of knowing that stabbing you hurts you because I can't read your brain-isms but if you avoid it, scream, struggle and try to get away I'll assume you're in pain and distressed.

Since we know mammals have consciousness and feel pain and emotions in much the same basic way we can, we probably shouldn't inflict it on them.

Pro tip: If you selectively breed an animal until it is reliant on you/suffers entirely based on it's own body, you have already done something wrong and that version of that animal shouldn't continue to be bred.

I am not saying there is no good way to shear a sheep without it freaking out, I am saying that a significant amount of wool comes from 'factory farm' style shearing sheds which process thousands of sheep in short periods of time, resulting in a rushed process that can hurt the animals. And what happens when those sheep get older? They're slaughtered, often sent to third world countries with poor regulations on the sheep equivalent of slave ships.

Wool is not so precious that I would risk it coming from an unethical source. And all those sheep die in the end anyway for meat.

[Armhulen]

Cosmic political cartoons HAS to be the worst timeline

[IkeTG]

Cosmic political cartoons HAS to be the worst timeline

This is true, we are currently in the darkest timeline.