okay sir/madam/preferred pronoun, how would you like your mock meat done?

[Doctor Pork]

Bottom post of the previous page:

i just want to put out there i dont care what people eat but misinformation really tussles my tail feathers

edit: maybe sometime tonight i wont have to fix my own post after i post it who knows its a mystery

[Armhulen]

>you should eat more vegetables as a way to improve the world with a low impact on your own life
>oh yeah well why arent you willing to give up your freedom and get beaten/raped in a cage to end all wars and bad things ever?

not an argument

Well well well if it isn't kor with his appeal to nature

[onleavedontatme]

also saying vegan arguments turn people off veganism is dumb if they're never exposed to the idea it is even less likely they're gonna spontaneously do it

[Rustledjimm]

BID MY BLOOD TO RUN

[Durkel]

Speaking of meat, what should I have for dinner today?

I've got two chicken breasts , one pound of hamburger, and a porkchop in my freezer.

[Stickymayhem]

I've managed to make a disconnect between savagely brutalised animals and what goes in my mouth. It's called not having so much compassion for a species that is not your own you wish the world to change to suit it rather than you.

That's so sad and self-defeating I don't know why I should have this debate with you to be honest. I'll try anyway.

More land to use for crop for consumption instead of crop for meat, or at least I assume not all grazing land is hilly and can support at least one crop type

And also to not have to feed to those animals on that land in the first place

A shift from animal waste to plant based fertilisers, I am uncertain how much of either exist on industrial scale

Artificial fertilizer is more sustainable and has no downsides I'm aware of other than not recycling the literal thousands of tonnes of toxic shit animal ag produces, or being labeled 'organic' which is meaningless.

Less emissions, probably, from cows, some people say their methane is as bad as a Landrover or they did ~10 years ago, oh and maybe less spent in refrigeration and food processing

Animal agriculture is 19% of our total emissions. Estimates put it as high as 51% including the total methane and other greenhouse gases but I'm wary of that number. 19% is the most accurate one.

More or less food imports/exports to add onto the global carbon footprint?

Yep

A different makeup of material usage, I'm uncertain how losing wool of all its varieties might affect the world of cotton and synthetic, plastic, fibres

There are a few very specific use cases for wool that have synthetics that do the job about 80% as well. Other than this specifc thing, all other materials can be replaced with synthetics for the most part, often more cheaply.

Death or loss (e.g. amputation, gelding) occurs only when a vet decides any remaining animals should bear it, keep in mind that vets give donkeys the snip if a son decides to lay with his father in front of the farmer and the farmer's too embarrassed by nature to flog them on to a farm with a female donkey

It's standard practice on a lot of farms. They remove the horns to stop them hurting each other or breaking down fences, and to stop them having to be filed down which is maintenance effort. It's often done soon after birth.

The experience of milking is removed and the rearing of calves for said process is also removed

I don't really understand this.

Cows might be bred to not be overburdened with milk, bulls might be bred to not be overburdened with muscle that made anything but artificial insemination impossible, sheep might be bred to not be overburdened with wool that makes their existence when not sheared horrible, though you might have greater luck breeding them to not having long tails that get infested with maggots from their own waste management system, I suppose it's a good thing that farmers put a ring around the tail when they're young to starve it of blood until it drops off, leaving just a short doggy stub
Animals live their entire lives, mate, have a family, grow old, sit in front of the fire, keel over due to a heart attack or a disease the vet didn't have antibiotics for but did have a forever sleep injection for
No more cages, no more battery farms, no more sheds, no more free range

Sure but these animals also can just not exist when we stop breeding them.

[Rustledjimm]

well what's in your cupboards/pantry

You can't just cook them by themselves.

[Doctor Pork]

Speaking of meat, what should I have for dinner today?

I've got two chicken breasts , one pound of hamburger, and a porkchop in my freezer.

hmmm

i would say 2 chicken breasts a 1 pound burger and a side of porkchop but thats just me

[CitrusGender]

H

[Stickymayhem]

i just want to put out there i dont care what people eat but misinformation really tussles my tail feathers

edit: maybe sometime tonight i wont have to fix my own post after i post it who knows its a mystery

what part is inaccurate this all happens.

videos of any and all of this exist, if industry regulations don't outright say them themselves

[Durkel]

I've got a fully loaded pantry and spices.

I've some brussel sprouts, zucchini, rice, potato, carrots, celery, and some fresh green beans.

[Rustledjimm]

Well I don't care much for courgette but do you have some bacon? Pork Chop with some bacon+garlic sprouts is good.

Then again you could take the chicken breasts and make a nice stir fry with the carrots and rice.

[Togopal]

Me after reading this thread

[IkeTG]

nice sweater i*iot

[Durkel]

Yeah I could wrap bacon around the chops but I can't make a decent stir fry without a wok. I've got an electric stove anyway and stirfry fry is shit on those.

[Togopal]

nice sweater i*iot

Reported

[Doctor Pork]

i just want to put out there i dont care what people eat but misinformation really tussles my tail feathers

edit: maybe sometime tonight i wont have to fix my own post after i post it who knows its a mystery

what part is inaccurate this all happens.

videos of any and all of this exist, if industry regulations don't outright say them themselves

all of it

source: I FUCKING WORK IN A BEEF PROCESSING PLANT IT IS LITERALLY MY JOB AND NONE OF THIS HAPPENS THE WAY YOU SAY IT DOES

[Rustledjimm]

[youtube]ASDoiX45jMk[/youtube]

[Rustledjimm]

[youtube]_cOOxO1Q_7E[/youtube]

[Stickymayhem]

No-one farms them; they all die

They stop being bred. Realistically demand falls until it can be stopped and the remaining animals are slaughtered or given to sanctuaries.

People lose jobs in the meat, milk, cheese, egg, yoghurt, fishing, gutting, anything and everything industries, even if underpaid, dangerous and filled by immigrants, they will turn to other unpaid, dangerous and filled by immigrant work, crop farming is supposed to just be getting more an more automated these days so they can't go work on all the new crop farms even though it'd be their pay grade

The economic argument for slavery was popular back then. Slaughterhouse work is some of the most dangerous, lowest paid and unpleasant work you can get. People literally get PTSD from it, and there is a measurable increase in drug-use, alcoholism and crime in areas around slaughterhouses as a result. It's kind of crazy.

Loss of diet and requirement to shift over, meats, fats, eggs, milks, they all go into cakes, yoghurts, cheeses, full English breakfasts, pies, roasts, spit roasts, curries, soups, there's a lot of lost culture, lost sources of vitamins, proteins, fats, easy energy that isn't a carbohydrate... the cooks of the world might make wish soup out of their tears, I wish there was meat in the fridge soup

There are replacements for all of these. Vegan cooking has great variety and taste, meat does not make up the majority of all the food groups, you are removing one potential ingredient.

Medical testing is primarily on humans, not everyone wants to be tested on, not everyone comes back alive from testing, that's before everyone gets told animals aren't taking the brunt of the worst medicines

I won't get too far into this but animal testing is not generalizable to humans and has caused a lot of problems. We are moving away from animal testing already because it's not reliable and it's horribly unethical.

Cosmetic industries take a hit, though maybe new sprays, foundations, mascaras and hair dyes shouldn't be potentially harmful to begin with, though the ancient Egyptians did use nightshade to make their pupils dilate to look sexier

There's no benefit to testing cosmetics on animals, plenty of companies are doing fine without that. The only downside is you can't sell in China where animal testing is mandatory.

People start asking why pets exist if not to just suffer at our merriment, because some are bred to have unbreathable noses (bulldog) or to gain arthritis for the benefit of floppy ears (scottish fold munchkin), dog shows, horse races, etc, if we get rid of them, we might lose dogs which would be a great loss to the police in nonlethal weaponry and rowdy football hooligan behaviour control, though some might consider this to be pain for the dogs, especially considering, as far as some people say, sniffer dogs lose their noses after a long time around drugs, oh yeah, no drug or bomb sniffer dogs, what a world

You're not wrong. I believe pet breeding should be reduced or stopped until the overflow of adoptable animals is dealt with. Breeding for profit is always going to result in some breeders treating their animals poorly or oversupply for the sake of profit.

To repeat the first bullet point, no more bull, cow, calf, pig, sow, sheep, lamb, llama, alpaca, anything bred and even butchered for any part of its body that part of life and existence is gone[/list]

Completely wrong. There are already non-profit sanctuaries for all of these animals and many kept as pets anyway. They don't disappear they just get loved instead of killed. There will be far fewer because we won't be breeding and killing billions, and that's perfectly fine.

The argument of environment is minmaxing, X is less damaging/cheaper than Y, but I like Y and I'm comfortable enough with Y that I'll have to ask why is meat so bad that we can't have world peace or liberty for all first?

Look at the vegan calculator thing. Show me something that has that much impact on environmental usage. What can you personally do for world peace or liberty for all? Now what can you do about the resource consumption I demonstrated earlier? Exactly.

The argument of feelings comes across as absolutism and ready to jump ship until we say humans cause all suffering so we should kill humans, e.g. "People put sheep to graze on the hills, destroying all natural woodland!" is very easy to take as "Humans are bad!", suffering exists everywhere so it's hard to care for something that isn't my species when I can't even care for a different race of my species toiling away so I can have a phone, or literally slave on the farms in my country because they were trafficked here from within Europe

It's not feelings. It's cruelty. Cruelty is not emotional blackmail, it's suffering happening to others that you can stop. We are empathetic creatures and I believe we should try to make the world better for each other. I believed that before I was vegan and I believe that now. Sitting around depressed at the state of the world doesn't help change it. I am as careful as I can be about my consumerism, I research the origins of what I buy, and if I find something unethical about it, I change it. We have a lot of choice, and where we don't have choice, we can attempt to improve it by contacting the people responsible with petitions and letters and activism.

Sticky and similar vegans word it with such urgency and impact that I can't not think there are better causes to chase after if your chief weapons are mental trauma & depression at existence.

I am ultimately a happy person, veganism does bring with is some sadness but I don't regret it, and I'm happy that I'm living in line with my values wherever I can. There is no better cause I know of where one person can have as drastic a change on their impact in terms of the environment, suffering of others and their own health.

[Lazengann]

Sorry I'm not sure how devoting land to feed livestock is a problem. It seems to me that we have an excess of food and a failure to distribute it.

[Rustledjimm]

Food distribution is actually probably our worst issue.

We have more than enough land to feed everyone.

[Arianya]

personally i'm entogan and refuse to eat any product that came from harm being done to insects.

Which basically means I can only eat plankton.

It's low in cholesterol.

[Stickymayhem]

cosmic dismantling himself in front of everyone was really something

i'm probably a narcissist for feeling this but someone hating your guts while you don't remember any interaction with them is kinda flattering right

This is sad.

Over time I've played less, made the Shitposter! cards, produced code & sprites for the game, sometimes it didn't get in but sometimes it did, sketched nonsense joke art of users around here, gotten a tablet, drawn nonsense joke art of users around here, even you, I've made up a family tree in my head that consists of Kor & ColonicAcid being my fathers, oranges being my waif, oranges & me made up a story about us living on a ranch in Colorado, with ShadowDimentio as our cat because he didn't want to be a dog, Anondoe, who I call that because female rabbits are not mares, was once with Pillz in this family tree, had Qbopper as a son, I drew this, there are two other children who are lizards and we're going to find out who, I've drawn gif jokes, I've made newspapers about the second last headmin election which CitrusGender joined in on with a funny piece, I've probably broken down 200 times in the watercooler over personal issues that are just my brain being not that right on the day of typing it and I've gotten in an argument with a headmin over coin flipping being enabled on discord because it was the only way I could earn flowers with speed greater than blackjack, that and I have rotten luck at blackjack and quite real good luck at coin flipping that my C++ programming proves to be irregular. I've even had oranges use an avatar I made for them at least once. I've tried to reach out and been successful because a lot of people here are cool dudes that I wish my currently ill health didn't prevent playing with, cursed time zones.

But over time for you, I'm not sure what I've seen outside of someone who posts something moderately to really serious, serious enough to make Kor srspost in the same thread and Kor generally only posts when there's something serious to say/everyone's been a child for 48 hours & ausops isn't feeling up to it. But then you step back, make a joke out of it. Maybe try to pull someone else down by pretending you were never serious. And making self degrading jokes in the vein of narcissism, this time literally, seems very familiar. I suppose the only change I've noticed is that you panic when you're called out in admin complaints and can't calm down, that or you're what An0n3 would be if he stuck around to a great degree after the same headminship as you, an ill, abrasive fit, though I've been vaguely close enough to fallout surrounding An0n3 to feel he doesn't deserve a verbal battering.

Jesus

first off, I don't engage in the same stuff as you. This community isn't my support network or social life. I'm not boasting here, we just hang in different places. I play the game a lot, I'm here for the game first and the community second.

I treat it as a game, and I treat the forums as a game too. If I get bored playing a game I stop, if I get bored in a forum conversation part of that game I stop or meme. I'm here to have fun. That's probably why I look like a piece of shit to you, and rightly so. I don't care about the stuff here enough to get emotional about it. I used to, but that wasn't good for me so I stopped. I enjoy making thoughtful posts and arguing with people, and I enjoy being a little shit, often at the same time.

I don't mean to bring down your status in the community, I just haven't interacted with you enough for me to understand the hate tbh. I genuinely don't hate anyone in this community and I never have. I may fuck with people or get mad at someone briefly or whatever, but I don't feel that hate, even if they genuinely hate me back.

I'm not trying to be above it all here just trying to explain myself a bit because you seem worked up and that makes me feel bad for doing that.

I didn't mean to stress you out, I like shitposting, I like arguing, and I do it all at once for fun because there are no real consequences here and I like typing

[Shezza]

This is a catgirl thread now


nya

[jcll]

Nyaaaa~

[Thunder11]

Hewwo

[IkeTG]

BOOF

[SpaceInaba]

I unironically wanna know how cats taste

[Shezza]

meow

[Anonmare]

The quality of the hut has really hecking declined in my absence

[Stickymayhem]

now cosmic wont see my apology rude boys

[Anonmare]

now cosmic wont see my apology rude boys

Apologise

[ColonicAcid]

gggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

lol

[Stickymayhem]

gggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

lol

i said sorry and replied to all your big posts what more do you want

im trying

[Anonmare]

I have weeks of posting to catch up on, your thread is a casualty in my ascension to power.

[Shezza]

purrs

[Anonmare]

Can somebody please put this cat to sleep, it's a nuisance and needs to go

[Stickymayhem]

This is a huge post so I will be using "Appeal to Nature/Tradition" as shorthand for this faulty justification: Just because something is natural/traditional does not justify it.

These foods are killing us. We can tolerate small amounts of these foods just like anything bad for us, but the way we eat this stuff today (Meat 2-3 times a day instead of 2-3 times a week if that) is absolutely killing us. Red meat and processed meat is carcinogenic, high fat/cholesterol foods like meats are causing strokes, heart disease and obesity.

We get one vital vitamin from animal products you can't get elsewhere: B12. The B12 you get in your animal products is 1. Likely to be insufficient, non-vegans are just as likely to be deficient 2. Is supplemented into the animals diet, so you can take a pill, or put the pill in an animal, kill the animal and eat the animal for the same benefit.

Everything else can be replaced by plant foods, especially protein, which is hugely abundant in MOST foods. Protein deficiency is effectively impossible unless you are literally starving to death.

Yes. Common sense and basic energy transfer in biology (You lose about 90% of the energy at each stage in the chain) shows that meat production is inefficient. This makes it environmentally irresponsible when we are already destroying the planet and people are starving unable to afford basics. The point is not the land the sheep are on, but the land being used to feed them instead of humans. Those rolling hills mean nothing compared to the much larger land mass of crops supporting that flock of sheep for several months.

What I understand of veganism:

• Refuses to eat meat or animal products on a variety of grounds, rearing animals for material product is up in the air

Incorrect: "Veganism is a way of living which seeks to exclude, as far as is possible and practicable, all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals for food, clothing or any other purpose."

This is the official, and only definition of true veganism. A vegan diet is not necessarily veganism. Veganism is a lifestyle and political movement, and has been since it's conception.

Nature/tradition = tried and tested or rather tried and tested by each and every generation long enough that we've forgotten why and so no-one cares why to change. If you wish to not appeal to nature then do not appeal to your fee fees. They are caused by glands. Pain is caused by glands. If we ignore nature, we can eat meat guilt free. Please use your thinker and don't throw away what I say without thinking more than two seconds about what to say when you throw it away instead of providing counter points.

Also stop responding by breaking up the quotes. It's not only ugly but it's poor form, and like dyed hair for evade at all cost people, is a warning flag you're not willing to argue the whole but to argue strands or points where you're able to win.

Argue for lowered meat intake rather than removal if your problem is health issues caused by over consumption. Asparagus is supposed to trigger a certain type of cancer. Everything is a carcinogen. It's hard to make cancer an argument when plenty of people seem to live forever on regular diets. A grave question is how long should someone even live when we can't necessarily make the degradation of old age enjoyable or economical. Though that is a different topic.

I have a book of vitamins, minerals & there sources somewhere but I don't know where so I'll just assume you're talking out of your arse with giving pills to animals so that we're on good diets. I assume proteins are not all the same, though I have no book on that and the last time I talked to a biologist friend about this was the last time you had a vegan rant.

Common sense is a buzzword. Please refrain for using it. At least because it causes me suffering as it triggers me because it's often followed by what is common sense but applied to a simplistic version of events that aren't in the same field as the common sense was supposed to originate as a light hearted joke by a tradesman. It's environmentally irresponsible to care about the feelings of animals if you're going to bring up those at the hands of famine and the lesser known horseman, poverty.

I don't know what fodder food sheep are fed but when not grazing on hills sheep can be found eating the unusable waste heads of sugar beet. Not all food would otherwise go to use, unless you plan on eliminating sugar beet from existence for spiting farm animals by helping to enable their existence.


If you believe in that form of veganism, where your existence must not harm animals, your result is either to destroy all animals or yourselves. You can't honestly believe if we swap from meat to plants that animals will continue to exist, that if you wish no harm to come to animals, that pets will continue to exist, that if we can feed more on the land we have through plant than meat, that we won't expand and exploit, that we won't remove more wild land and therefore the animals to better house ourselves. That form of veganism is cold. It doesn't ask to exist. It asks to stop pain and suffering. There is no end to pain and suffering whilst there is existence. Your perfect world is that with only humans, no humans or a big wall which neither cross. That is not a world free from animal pain at human hands, that is a world with less existence. People kill. Animals kill. We are animals. These facts won't go away no matter how much moralism you preach.

You are an extremist.

Ok I'll do it like this

I won't argue for reduced consumtion. Reduce it as a part of your improvement gradually if you need to, but eventually we should all get there.

Everything is not a carcinogen. The WHO has stated what the known or suspected carcinogens are. You're being silly.

I am not appealing to feelings. My arguments don't rely on emotion if you feel emotional about something I said that's on you. Not trying to make you sad here. Trying to show you something that is inherently sad.

I don't understand this common sense thing. You're on about but it seems off topic. Animals use more resources. Don't breed more animals when we already have water/land/emmissions issues. You seem to be triggered by a lot of words. Chill out.

You misunderstood the definition of veganism. Read it again. Your destroy everything argument is madness.

Fundamentally, bringing life into the world just for it to suffer is not worth it. I wouldn't bring a child slave into the world, nor one in abject poverty, nor an animal to be slaughtered by my choice (and mine alone). I can only directly impact one of those things and help with the others.

>Hi. I pay huge corporations to slaughter billions of animals resulting in untold suffering, environmental destruction and accumulation of wealth at the cost of the local landscape, populations and subsidies. I'm normal.

>Hi, I choose not to do these things. I'm an extremist

ok

[Limski]

[Stickymayhem]

I will care about the kids in the daycare bumping into things once we take care of the bigger problem of them fighting each other

I will care about the kids in the daycare fighting each other once we take care of the bigger problem of the daycare facilities stabbing them to death

Let's focus on the stabbing to death before the fighting before the incidental harm.

Let's focus on the intentional mass slaughter of animals, before pets and incidental harm, before the natural suffering of wildlife.

You get me?

[Anonmare]

Make it cheaper to get artificial meat and make it identical in taste and texture to real meat and this'll be more than pie in the sky stuff

[Stickymayhem]

Make it cheaper to get artificial meat and make it identical in taste and texture to real meat and this'll be more than pie in the sky stuff

I said it in discord and I'll say it again to bait all the people who don't understand analogies :^)

>"Make it cheaper to get sexbots and make it identical in feel and texture to real girls and I'll stop raping people"

[Grazyn]

It pains me to see unnatural dyed hair called "anime hair" or "sjw hair", back in my high school years the girls with pink hair were usually hardcore punk rockers or anarchists

[Lazengann]

Make it cheaper to get artificial meat and make it identical in taste and texture to real meat and this'll be more than pie in the sky stuff

I said it in discord and I'll say it again to bait all the people who don't understand analogies :^)

>"Make it cheaper to get sexbots and make it identical in feel and texture to real girls and I'll stop raping people"

I support sexbots for sex offenders

[Anonmare]

Make it cheaper to get artificial meat and make it identical in taste and texture to real meat and this'll be more than pie in the sky stuff

I said it in discord and I'll say it again to bait all the people who don't understand analogies :^)

>"Make it cheaper to get sexbots and make it identical in feel and texture to real girls and I'll stop raping people"

False equivalence

[Stickymayhem]

It pains me to see unnatural dyed hair called "anime hair" or "sjw hair", back in my high school years the girls with pink hair were usually hardcore punk rockers or anarchists

this guy gets it

[Anonmare]

It pains me to see unnatural dyed hair called "anime hair" or "sjw hair", back in my high school years the girls with pink hair were usually hardcore punk rockers or anarchists

this guy gets it

I agree

[Stickymayhem]

Make it cheaper to get artificial meat and make it identical in taste and texture to real meat and this'll be more than pie in the sky stuff

I said it in discord and I'll say it again to bait all the people who don't understand analogies :^)

>"Make it cheaper to get sexbots and make it identical in feel and texture to real girls and I'll stop raping people"

False equivalence

>I won't stop my unethical behaviour until it requires literally no effort or change on my part

Is that a false equivalence?

[Anonmare]

Make it cheaper to get artificial meat and make it identical in taste and texture to real meat and this'll be more than pie in the sky stuff

I said it in discord and I'll say it again to bait all the people who don't understand analogies :^)

>"Make it cheaper to get sexbots and make it identical in feel and texture to real girls and I'll stop raping people"

False equivalence

>I won't stop my unethical behaviour until it requires literally no effort or change on my part

Is that a false equivalence?

Eating is not an unethical act. Dead flesh is an object and I did not end its life. Whether I choose to consume it or not will not change the fact that the animal it came from is dead. Rape meanwhile is against a very living thing and something that I am doing against said living thing.

Very much so.

[ColonicAcid]

gggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

lol

i said sorry and replied to all your big posts what more do you want

im trying

motherfucker do i look like cosmicscientist

ur dead to me