Midgame antagonists.

[starmute]

Currently I feel the mid-game antagonists need some more pep in their step.

Here's what we have so far and my unsolicited and horrible opinions.

• Pirate
  
  Very good. Could be improved but fuck if the design isn't cool. Current favorite.
• Aliens/Ay-lamos
  
  Fun. Not round ruiners. Actually adds something to the round.
• Space ninja
  
  Rarely seen, fun to watch. Over powered but all around good fun.
• Blob/Blerb
  
  While thought out and complex it'll end the round fast. It seems the best way to deal with it is to create a singularity with bluespace bags and end it.
• Sentient Disease
  
  Job description is to be annoying and transmit your disease to everyone else. It adds a little bit of fun for the viro and the CMO. Kinda meh
• Revenant/Grief Ghost
  
  The absolute shittiest side antag of them all the Revenant runs around pissing off people left and right. Basically to counter this asshole you have to use the salt smoke machine to spread it everywhere. When you are trying to get shit done its annoying. He has no other objectives than to piss people off. Ironic the counter is a salt machine
• Morph
  
  Hardly ever seen. There isn't much point to them other being a mob that can change into various people/things.
• Xeno
  
  While its decently made, it should either be a game mode or have some sort of objectives. I don't really have any objections to it being there but it feels kinda pointless. Also CM does it much much better so I always feel like I should go over there if I really want to play a xeno mode. I mean.. its not bad.
• Swarmer
  
  Not fun to play as or to play against it feels like a waste of time. I'd personally rather be an ash walker.

Did I miss any? Feel free to comment and tell me how wrong I am.

[Ayy Lemoh]

This seems like a code issue.

To be honest, we just need to do whatever Arm said and make spiders replace xenomorphs. They're just better despite how they can sometimes be more bullshit than a xenomorph.

[oranges]

spiders already have their own event and visually and thematically they're super boring

[starmute]

This seems like a code issue.

To be honest, we just need to do whatever Arm said and make spiders replace xenomorphs. They're just better despite how they can sometimes be more bullshit than a xenomorph.

I believe the code is working as intended, this is more of a configuration problem than a coding problem. The topic has to do with the discussion of in-game modes and feedback to gamemasters and headmins about current configuration policy.

[PKPenguin321]

Gonna take this to the coding feedback board since I don't see how this has anything to really do with policy

[Lazengann]

do we really need the morph syringe? Has anyone's round really been improved by someone turning themselves into a vent crawling cigarette butt that eats the cloner?

[Ayy Lemoh]

this is more of a configuration problem

Alright, I guess that's policy, but it's still kinda code related I feel since I believe there's no config on which random events are more likely to happen or less likely to happen since all of those antags are just random events.

[Xhuis]

the Revenant runs around pissing off people left and right

amusingly I think that's the point

morphs are neat but they lack an objective so it's just lolmurder
as for xenos, we had them before CM, no reason to cut it just because they do it as their main focus
swarmers are kind of powerful; they're really really good against players and really really bad against simplemobs. could definitely stand to be changed

[Karp]

spiders already have their own event and visually and thematically they're super boring

agreed but some people disagree.

I think xenos are stupid busted shit but even then they're more fun when compared with "static moving simpleanimal blob that gives you reagents on hit"

[RandomMarine]

Did I miss any? Feel free to comment and tell me how wrong I am.

You forgot slaughter demons.
Which all they contribute is removing people from the round for happening to be near blood and not powergaming around with the best armor and weapons they can get. In which case the demon just passes them up because it gets to pick and choose all its battles.

[starmute]

Did I miss any? Feel free to comment and tell me how wrong I am.

You forgot slaughter demons.
Which all they contribute is removing people from the round for happening to be near blood and not powergaming around with the best armor and weapons they can get. In which case the demon just passes them up because it gets to pick and choose all its battles.

I thought they were a side effect of wizards picking them. Can they randomly spawn in a round now?

[Lumbermancer]

the Revenant runs around pissing off people left and right

amusingly I think that's the point

It's a misguided point.

[Ayy Lemoh]

I thought they were a side effect of wizards picking them. Can they randomly spawn in a round now?

If an admin feels really cruel, we have a SUMMON SLAUGHTER DEMON random event button.

[starmute]

I thought they were a side effect of wizards picking them. Can they randomly spawn in a round now?

If an admin feels really cruel, we have a SUMMON SLAUGHTER DEMON random event button.

Is that next to the BSA?

[Nabski]

Nope, it's right between swarmers and revenant.

[RandomMarine]

Code: Select all

/datum/round_event_control/slaughter
	name = "Spawn Slaughter Demon"
	typepath = /datum/round_event/ghost_role/slaughter
	weight = 1 //Very rare
	max_occurrences = 1
	earliest_start = 1 HOURS
	min_players = 20

It's there but it's rare.

[Bombadil]

Swarmers are definitely the worst mid-round antagonist moreso than xenos they are pretty much unstoppable if you get more than 3 of em

[Lazengann]

Swarmers are designed to end the round

[cedarbridge]

Swarmers are designed to end the round

This. Swarmers are intended (like most threats) to be a cataclysmic event that the crew stops, slows down or loses the station to.

[Lumbermancer]

Swarmers are designed to end the round

This. Swarmers are intended (like most threats) to be a cataclysmic event that the crew stops, slows down or loses the station to.

It's a misguided intention.

[PKPenguin321]

Swarmers are designed to end the round

This. Swarmers are intended (like most threats) to be a cataclysmic event that the crew stops, slows down or loses the station to.

It's a misguided intention.

http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsop ... nions.html

[Lumbermancer]

It's a fact. I can whip out hundred better ways to soft-force round end right here if you want.

[PKPenguin321]

It's a fact.

http://pbskids.org/arthur/games/factsop ... nions.html

[Lumbermancer]

Spoken like a true revenant player.

[RandomMarine]

This. Swarmers are intended (like most threats) to be a cataclysmic event that the crew stops, slows down or loses the station to.

In practice as long as a single swarmer is not retarded they're nigh-unstoppable.

[Cobby]

Side antagonists are the legal form of second-lifing as a ghost role (but now with the ability to fuck over people who wronged you in the first, unfettered).

They also have protagonist syndrome where some have to keep being buffed because they're "underpowered", as if they were meant to dominate the station events (they shouldn't unless they're left unattended).

[bandit]

I actually really like swarmers, there is something cathartic about destroying the station little by little

[oranges]

Revenants are just crap, I don't know what value they bring, so far they haven't been a maintenance burden but if they become one I'll cut them so hard.

The rest of the mid game antags power levels depend on the person who rolls as the player, like 99% of all other ss13 roles

[DemonFiren]

Griefghost was fun when people actually RPed with you instead of yelling ITS REV!!!!

[Yakumo_Chen]

hard to take a rev at face value when its sole purpose is to fuck with you even when it tells you as the hos the CMO is a ling which turned out to be true

I still find blob to be very fun even as a side antag. I especially favor it now that xray lasers aren't an instant counter. however I feel it tends to steal the focus of the round to an extreme since you absolutely cannot leave it alone on threat of being stuck on the station or having it wiped. Blobs are still strong enough to fight a protracted battle against a medium crew as well if it's had enough time to get a few nodes down.

the other side antags you can kind of ignore to a smaller degree, or at least just call the shuttle and let them have the station. Xenos and swarmers can still take over the shuttle but at least they can still let it leave.

[RandomMarine]

Revenants could be interesting if most of them didn't just defile every external window until someone gets sick of all the lack of air and calls the shuttle.

[starmute]

Revenants could be interesting if most of them didn't just defile every external window until someone gets sick of all the lack of air and calls the shuttle.

Reverants idealy would be like ghosts that don't kill. Making people halucinate and driving them insane. The only real way to stop them should be ghost busting equipment.

Thats how I would like to see that mode changed.

[Lumbermancer]

Member when drones were introduced to give ghosts something to do and help repair the station? Introduce pests which would do the opposite. Then you can have meta game where both factions battle each other for supremacy.

The idea.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15801

[somerandomguy]

Did I miss any? Feel free to comment and tell me how wrong I am.

You forgot slaughter demons.
Which all they contribute is removing people from the round for happening to be near blood and not powergaming around with the best armor and weapons they can get. In which case the demon just passes them up because it gets to pick and choose all its battles.

Dont forget the heart that gives you blood crawl if you eat it

[Bombadil]

Blob needs to be buffed as a midround antagonist. With particle rifles being a thing you can't fight that shit at all. Just mass produce particle rifles and you will have no worries. Concentrated fire means they blow a 3x3 hole in two shots. Only option to fight it is possibly becoming blazing oil blob but thats bugged and still you would have to expend a lot of chems to fucking PRAY that you get oil blob. If as you people say Mid-round antagonists are round enders then blob needs a buff for mid-round. Otherwise the only real option for a blob is just plop down in science and take out the research lab. As it's too late to try and stop ore shipments

[XDTM]

I feel like midround antagonists should not have a 50% chance of destroying the station. They're there as a diversion to spice the round up, and so the balance should be in favour of the crew overall. The point being that a crew alone could beat them most of the time, but interference from the main antag will flip the odds.

[DemonFiren]

the problem is that there is a false dichotomy between "destroys the station" and "easily beaten by crew"
furthermore, if they're too easily beaten they're not interesting anymore, but if you make them powerful enough to resist the most tryhard powergaming vaildhunters they might be unbeatable for regular crew and also not interesting anymore

[Ayy Lemoh]

Blob needs to be buffed as a midround antagonist. With particle rifles being a thing you can't fight that shit at all.

ah yes, the particle rifle spam which totally happens everytime a blob shows up.

totally.

Blob is kinda really strong in that most weapons are useless, unless it can recharge or shoot faster than the blob can spam more blob walls. If you want it to be buffed then make it so that if you call for nuke codes and blob is at 200/400 or higher then the nuke codes are automatically sent otherwise it's just gonna be like clock cult in how boring it is especially when you can't escape.

[DemonFiren]

remember gatling lasers?
those were fun

[starmute]

Blob needs to be buffed as a midround antagonist. With particle rifles being a thing you can't fight that shit at all.

ah yes, the particle rifle spam which totally happens everytime a blob shows up.

totally.

Blob is kinda really strong in that most weapons are useless, unless it can recharge or shoot faster than the blob can spam more blob walls. If you want it to be buffed then make it so that if you call for nuke codes and blob is at 200/400 or higher then the nuke codes are automatically sent otherwise it's just gonna be like clock cult in how boring it is especially when you can't escape.

They are done now. People will unleash two BOH easy on them. Then lord singloth eats them

[Fatal]

I'd love to see the ability to break windows go away from revenant

All they ever do is power up to get that ability and then break escape / shuttle / everywhere thats exposed to space

And because they simply vanish as soon as anyone whose a threat to them appears, they rarely die

Most chaplains are too busy these days trying to get edgy religious based valids anyway to notice a revenant

[DemonFiren]

Potentially agree, revenants should be more about harrassing the crew with spookies and indirectly killing them by setting up accidents or making them kill each other somehow.

Now if only there was a way to do that.

[SpaceInaba]

why can revs literally kill people while being unhittable by 99% of the crew

[Lumbermancer]

Posting every day until Revenant is removed.

[Selea]

revenant needs ghostbuster equipment.

[ChefOdDish]

Don't cross the beams or you'll feel the wrath of Lord Singuloth

[Cobby]

As mentioned somewhere else, primary antags (just scaling id imagine) need a nerf since they are balanced around being sole antag of the round when it seems like we’re moving away from that.

[PKPenguin321]

As mentioned somewhere else, primary antags (just scaling id imagine) need a nerf since they are balanced around being sole antag of the round when it seems like we’re moving away from that.

or: we could stop moving away from that, or only go through with nerfs AFTER we've moved all the way to that, so that we're not left half cocked with nerfed primary antags and nothing to show for it

[Bombadil]

Please make swarmers spawn 3 hours into the round they ruin everything a nice calm round becomes instantly lost they move at the speed of fucking light. I swear they used to be a lot slower

[cedarbridge]

Please make swarmers spawn 3 hours into the round they ruin everything a nice calm round becomes instantly lost they move at the speed of fucking light. I swear they used to be a lot slower

Code: Select all

speed = 0

They're not faster. You're just slow.