[CitrusGender] Contesting a note

[Shark-sie]

Byond account and character name: Shark-sie and Theo Legend
noting admin: CitrusGender
Note is as follows : Warned - Activated a suicide bomb in cargo because he got slipped by the clown while other parties were around. While it is debatable whether or not he was in peril, this type of behavior should be discouraged.

Time note was placed (including time zone): 2018-02-14 23:12:09 server time round ID 83624

Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Bagil

Your side of the story: Ill try to keep this brief without removing any details. Citrus feel free to let me know if i left anything out

1: War cult is declared
2: I create my generic suicide hellfoam greande, to be used if I am captured, with Keyword Wallop
3: As I am trying to create synthflesh for the crew, clown engages in massive shittery. Pushing people into shower water for slips, slipping them with his PDA, camping medbay entrance to slip and shave people when we are busy with war shit.
4: I disarm the clown, as I had to leave to grab something and he attempted to slip me. He slips me several times, other doctors push him out of the way for his actions.
5: I return to chemistry attempting to ignore the clown.
6: Clown follows me into chemistry, tables me on 4 glass tables, then disposals himself.
7: I create a double acid CLF3 spraybottle, and take it to disposals intended to erradicate the clown for 5 minutes, pending cloning.
8: Clown tells Manny that he is innocent, and not a clock cultist as I had accused him of being on radio. Spends his time waiting in disposals telling Manny hes innocent / im after him
9: I show up to disposals, and clown tells me that he will kill me very explicitly. I let Citrus know this in ticket, that this happened before any violent RETALIATION. Mind you this IS retaliation because the clown tabled me on FOUR glass tables. That deals a fair bit of damage. Anyways this is exactly what hte clown said. https://gyazo.com/4c1399ad91f76a4cbc382e6d06c65682
10: It is clear that he intends to kill me if I fail to deal with him.
11: I break the window to cargo down, and spray my bottle through the grille, at the clown.
12: Manny runs though, punches me, and starts running back and forth attempting to fight me. the clown evades 2 more sprays and runs towards arrivals.
13: Manny punches me once more, than the clown throws a banana and I am slipped.
14: Clown moves towards me, and Manny continues to punch me on the floor. At this point, I activate my grenade, as it is clear that I am going to be killed.
15: The grenade initially kills me, the clown, and Manny. I want to make this clear. Any other deaths happen because people walked into the breaches, and stayed there. They were not killed by the fire at all.
16: Clown ahelps, knowing full well that he engaged in shittery and says in dead chat "im ahelping this" and "youre gonna be gone for a while theo." Clown was aware he deserved what he got, and that he was baiting reactions from medbay.


Why you think you change should happen : I want to be clear, I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS IS A FAULT OF CITRUS. I do not want any action taken against him, or his reputation tarnished for being put into a situation where he has to handle this.

I would however, like the note removed. The existence of the grenade had clear purpose, in that clock cultists existed and declared war. The grenade was expressly to be used for them, and i ended up in a situation where two aggressors were murdering me after instigating a conflict. Not only is the note in my opinion unjust, but it also does not reflect the story as it happened. The implies that I suicide bombed for being slipped once. It also implies the clown was not acting negatively, it does not account for the fact that I was being attacked, and suggests that my "behavior" intending to defend myself from being converted or murdered is inapproriate during war cult.

Citrus made it clear that he disagrees with me making the grenade at all in a further ticket, however it is WAR CULT where I will almost CERTAINLY be abducted if the crew is anywhere near average. I believe it is more than fair to make such a grenade during WAR CULT or WAR OPS. I would be inclined to agree with citrus otherwise, however in this situation its existence should be pardoned.

EDIT: some post-post formatting.

[Rustledjimm]

A clf3 hellfoam grenade use is almost as bad as a bomb when it comes to damage and killing people. If this had been a bomb instead of a clf3 grenade you would be banned right now most likely due to non-antag bombing on the station. Instead you've got off with a note.

In normal escalation yeah you can most likely kill the clown. Does it say you can make a department unusable? Does it say you can kill people who aren't involved?

From what I understand, and have been informed, at least one completely uninvolved person died. Which would really be a dayban but again you've gotten off with just a note and a warning to not do so again. I reccomend you look over your actions and learn from this please.

EDIT: I'll also mention that I've had a few issues with yourself and escalation recently. You are very often over-escalating situations so I really recommend you take this chance to look over your attitude towards this and try to change please.

[CitrusGender]

I did offer to change the note to better reflect the situation but you declined since you wanted it after the appeal thread. As I have said in the ahelps, you're fine to kill them under the current escalation policy as it seems but the fact of the matter was that other people died in the situation and you made a huge problem for everyone else in the entire ship. Again, it is my personal belief that you shouldn't have done anything like this in the first place since I personally believe that you shouldn't be able to go from punches to grenade murder as quick as that but as I said: killing the clown was acceptable via the rules. I think a note is applicable here and I could change it if you want, as I previously said. I spent a lot of time on this ahelp asking multiple parties involved and I think this should be used as a precedent to not use suicidal grenades on the crew, the fact that it was warcult almost makes it a bit worse since you impeded the crew essentially.

I'm not 100% sure why there was violence between you and some of the people involved but it seemed that the person who started to punch you along with the clown basically had not so much to do with the situation and was only concerned about there being a chemist in cargo. Again, I begrudgingly ruled that off as just being escalation hence the reason you ended up with a note. The only other party that died who was not exactly involved was the person who died due to the hull breach. Though, I will note that they had burn damage and brute damage. I didn't go far enough into the logs to determine whether or not that came from the explosion since I was already taking enough time.

[Armhulen]

you can edit it to more closely show what was happening in the note and then i'm locking this thread.

that is unless you think it's clear enough in which just ping me on discord i guess or reply

[Shark-sie]

I would appreciate if the note could be edited to be more accurate to the situation then. At least make it not sound like "slipped once and hellfoamed cargo" because I feel that paints a far more unfair note for future readers. I am keeping in mind that if someone checks my notes for killing someone in the future and sees "slipped by clown and hellfoamed cargo" its going to read very differently for the situation than "was in a conflict with the clown, threatened with death, and over reacted with a suicide grenaded when slipped"

[Armhulen]

I would appreciate if the note could be edited to be more accurate to the situation then. At least make it not sound like "slipped once and hellfoamed cargo" because I feel that paints a far more unfair note for future readers. I am keeping in mind that if someone checks my notes for killing someone in the future and sees "slipped by clown and hellfoamed cargo" its going to read very differently for the situation than "was in a conflict with the clown, threatened with death, and over reacted with a suicide grenaded when slipped"

yea

[CitrusGender]

Kay. The note was amended.

Closing this.