Rnd techwebs

SpaceInaba · Post by **SpaceInaba** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:57 pm #366347

Bottom post of the previous page:

tbh it's a super logical strategy if you're gonna have a long round to have the RD or some science mook jump out the airlock and go get the white ship so they can grab the universal R&D boards from the derelict and take them back to science considering nobody other than cargo actually stocks their lathe

I like techwebs because it requires less work to get equipment it normally was annoying to get but departmental lathes just don't really work as intended I. Other departments now have the power to print their own stuff but nobody, not even sec actually does so most of the time. This may be different on the psychopaths who play on bagil's insane fucking population but on sybil literally nobody except me stocks non science lathes.

EagleWiz · Post by **EagleWiz** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:14 pm #366391

[quote="SpaceInaba"
I like techwebs because it requires less work to get equipment it normally was annoying to get but departmental lathes just don't really work as intended I. Other departments now have the power to print their own stuff but nobody, not even sec actually does so most of the time. This may be different on the psychopaths who play on bagil's insane fucking population but on sybil literally nobody except me stocks non science lathes.[/quote]

As much as I hate the new techwebs (and the minimal possible documentation for players), I have seen the sec protolathe get stocked in cult rounds, which is really the only round type where its viable.

kevinz000 · Post by **kevinz000** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:43 am #366780

ALRIGHT: I SHOULD HAVE MORE TIME FOR DEV WORK NOW. MY FIRST PRIORITY IS TO GET MORE WAYS TO GENERATE POINTS, BOTH EASY WAYS, AND HARDER BUT MORE REWARDING WAYS, SO IT ISN'T JUST AN AFK GENERATOR. IF ANYONE HAS ANY IDEAS, NOW WOULD BE THE TIME!

Current todolist:
1. supermatter engine point gen somehow, gas composition, matter energy, temperature, stability (probably not as people will just blow it up) and energy in some sort of formula? And yes this would be one of the harder ones.
2. I don't know if this is even feasible to code as adding hooks to atmoscode would probably fuck performance up, but sensors for plasmic fusion/stimulum/any of the assmos gas being reacted/generated? Harder ones.
3. Add minor point value boosts to each color of slime. This would be one of the easier ones, except maybe rainbow.
4. Same, but for genetics syringes?
5. Handheld research scanners for scientists. - selea

Selea · Post by **Selea** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:55 am #366782

Okay.I have suggestion. Wipe the fuck up entire point system. And give scientists research scanner. research scanner can record events nearby. Like plasma fire, fusion, electric bolt and other things.Observing of certain events will give access to techwebs.
Also give cool things back to scientists, because now they haven't motivation even for idle game. So every more complex actions just won't happen.

Ezel · Post by **Ezel** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:57 am #366783

Make cargo able to buy rnd some points so they might be able to push the point amount for some research like mining technology!

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:06 pm #366784

I predict this will go down the secborg/peacekeeper road with old pastebin R&D coming back at the end of all the tweaks/QoL changes

kevinz000 · Post by **kevinz000** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:42 pm #366787

cargo buying points is out of the question unless tech disk exports are completely removed.
grazyn: negative nancy

selea: research scanner will be considered. point system needs to stay for the time being due to it being the entire system. giving things to scientists, well, it was literally explicitly and specifically nerfed, so goodluck with that.

Ezel · Post by **Ezel** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:53 pm #366790

Then remove tech disks export because thats a meme now

SpaceInaba · Post by **SpaceInaba** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:27 pm #366796

give the RD a tablet program that lets me do research remotely please and thanks

Dr_bee · Post by **Dr_bee** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:31 pm #366797

Consider having making more servers an option. It would be interesting if servers actually produced heat and were effected by room temperature, similar to a supermatter crystal in some ways.

Probably could reuse supermatter code for that or something.

Idea being that you can add more servers to generate points faster but you would need to build an atmos controlled server room, and the RnD server room would actually have a purpose.

Also consider having a way to sell excess points, in fact it would be interesting to turn cargo points into a "cryptocurrency" style and have them be generated by a server as well, would make an interesting choice between cargo points and research points.

Selea · Post by **Selea** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:12 pm #366806

I know, that it was nerfed on puprose, but it was a mistake.Even instacrit things shouldn't be nerfed. Because IRL single bullet can instacrit and kill you.Instead there should be more ways to forsee it's coming. To be ready for some assistant,who gone to killing spree. For example, there must be alert buttons, which you can use to call security.
The most robust thing isn't weapons, plants, bombs or bots. Not even clown with toolbox. It's ignorance. Often you can notice, that something gone wrong, when 70% of crew was killed. And if it so, how you will know, what happened,before it came to you directly?
Instead of nerfing there must be counter buffing.Except cases, when something is insanely unbalanced.Like maradeur, or x-ray laser.
What is good:
Change tech levels to techwebs was good idea.
Dept lathes is good idea. Because it's much more usable decidion to spread new science successes among crew. Also I think, that it's good idea to add all autolathe items into dept lathes like common items. And remove autolathe completely.
Old Print'n'Destroy system was a rubbish.
What is bad:
Techpoints. If you are going to make idle game, try to make good idle game. Try to look at cookie clicker.
Scientists have now no motivation to even idle. So there is no point to make them do anything more complex.They need their toys.
Now Idle'n'Getnothing system is a rubbish even more.Because old system required knowlege of which items do you need to analyze to get your toys faster. Now it doesn't require any skill or knowlege.

Hatfish · Post by **Hatfish** » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:24 am #366993

Mining feels really unsatisfying now that techwebs are in and it's hard to explain why, but I think it might be in part due to mining having no reason to interact with anyone now that they get a protolathe and the ORM safely tucked away in cargo.

Okand37 · Post by **Okand37** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:10 am #368381

I can only reaffirm my suggestion that it really needs an actual web-organized display of what goes into what that is easy to use, simple, and easily grasped.

kevinz000 · Post by **kevinz000** » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:57 am #368387

energy is worthless until ninjanomnom reworks it or something.

Post by **oranges** » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:09 pm #372083

Here's the first new actual department progession item enabled by techwebs that doesn't just add things for RnD!

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... -356444005

I'm hoping to see more along these lines

Oldman Robustin · Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:47 pm

How do drop pods interact with Techwebs?

Edit: At a glance its interesting, but it only uses an existing tech and worst of all it only adds a board. A board, where only two (realistically one) can print boards.

Edit2: While I have your attention oranges, since you merged the "every line in packs.dm is a diff" PR, can you help me figure out what actually changed so I can make sure I didn't erase it with my 2-line merge conflict in the cult PR?

Hathkar · Post by **Hathkar** » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:38 pm #372353

Any department other than Cargo, Science, and sometimes engineering practically never gets minerals delivered to them, or has their portion of R&D researched at all. I honestly can't remember the last time I saw an advanced Energy Gun, or flightsuit.

Post by **oranges** » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:26 pm #372370

oldman, the board is printable from cargos protolathe as I understand

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:46 pm #372380

Hathkar wrote:Any department other than Cargo, Science, and sometimes engineering practically never gets minerals delivered to them, or has their portion of R&D researched at all. I honestly can't remember the last time I saw an advanced Energy Gun, or flightsuit.

Then it's working as intended.

kevinz000 · Post by **kevinz000** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:20 am #372393

Grazyn wrote:
Hathkar wrote:Any department other than Cargo, Science, and sometimes engineering practically never gets minerals delivered to them, or has their portion of R&D researched at all. I honestly can't remember the last time I saw an advanced Energy Gun, or flightsuit.
Then it's working as intended.

no.

Dr_bee · Post by **Dr_bee** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:28 am #372407

kevinz000 wrote:
Grazyn wrote:
Hathkar wrote:Any department other than Cargo, Science, and sometimes engineering practically never gets minerals delivered to them, or has their portion of R&D researched at all. I honestly can't remember the last time I saw an advanced Energy Gun, or flightsuit.
Then it's working as intended.
no.

Metastation probably should be updated so that the ORM is behind the Cargo desk like it is on Box and Delta, Give cargo control over who gets materials, because my god the science department and robotics STILL comes and steals everything even though they dont need a full stack of all the rare materials.

kevinz000 · Post by **kevinz000** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:00 am #372416

it being not behind the desk is a bug and ill do it in a map update when i give everyone dep imprinters.

Selea · Post by **Selea** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 4:46 am #372438

Sorry. I didn't intent to offend personally. I've just forgotten ,how deletion is works on this forums.

Hathkar · Post by **Hathkar** » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:34 pm #372660

I still argue that the "release All" button on the ORM needs to go, so people can't just snatch up all the minerals in one button press.

SpaceInaba · Post by **SpaceInaba** » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:11 pm #372802

click
50
enter
click
50
enter
repeat until all minerals are dispensed
it will only take like 7 seconds longer

Post by **Cobby** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:11 am #373375

SpaceInaba wrote:click
50
enter
click
50
enter
repeat until all minerals are dispensed
it will only take like 7 seconds longer

I press 999

...

Make Parts an expensive research please. The fact I can get T3 in 2 maybe 3 clicks is actually retarded given that drastically improves nearly every machine.

Post by **Dax Dupont** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:06 am #373382

Please rebalance the points cargo gets from tech disks because you can get a fuckton of points.

Dr_bee · Post by **Dr_bee** » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:59 am #373412

Cobby wrote: Make Parts an expensive research please. The fact I can get T3 in 2 maybe 3 clicks is actually retarded given that drastically improves nearly every machine.

Dax Dupont wrote:Please rebalance the points cargo gets from tech disks because you can get a fuckton of points.

yeah the biggest problem with techwebs I have right now is just numbers. the mineral cost of things needs to be tweaked, the cost of most research needs to be changed so parts that vastly improve the station dont cost the same as giving the janitor a better mop.

And most of all cargo needs to have another method of obtaining points besides tech disks and the stock market. Maybe have them receive orders of minerals and items they need to fill or something, right now cargo is more brainless than it was when you were just shipping plasma.

Oldman Robustin · Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:59 pm

Mineral distribution remains the biggest impediment and thats not "just a numbers issue".

My solution was to simply move the ORM deep into cargo. ORM stores minerals as it does now. Each head/QM can use a modular program and/or the protolathe to request minerals. The request would include a field offering the reason for the request. Then the QM/HOP/Captain would have ~30 seconds to deny the request, or grant it immediately. There would be some modest cooldown for requests, which would be increased if the request resulted in a denial.

Fulfilled requests would immediately move those resources to the appropriate protolathe, and Cargo would get a "cut" of the value of all rare minerals sent in this manner. The only other issue would be how Viro and Robotics would get their minerals but it wouldn't be terrible hard to add the Pandemic/Exosuit Fabs to this request network. The QM/HOP/Cap program could also be used to retrieve minerals from a given lathe but that would "cost" whatever portion of the "cut" that was rewarded for fulfilling the request. Once within the protolathe the minerals couldn't be directly extracted, only if they were "refunded" back to the ORM could they be extracted as sheets (to prevent abusing the commission system).

This would, of course, result in cutting the "tech export" feature entirely.

Selea · Post by **Selea** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:14 pm #373715

mineral request button in protolathe.QM will accept or deny this request.
If he will accept, mulebot will automatically take requested resources and deliver to requested machine.
Also this way we should remove autolathe and put all it's designs to default protolathe menu.Let's call protolathe replicator.

Post by **Armhulen** » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:17 pm #373717

fun as all hell, it just seems odd that there's no way to get more points except for making bombs

i'd prefer if they generated a lot less but could spend points on getting more points per second

Selea · Post by **Selea** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:23 am #374038

I think,that core idea of techpoints can't be healed. So just "updrade it" button can't help.

onleavedontatme · Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:56 am

Oldman Robustin wrote:Mineral distribution remains the biggest impediment and thats not "just a numbers issue".

My solution was to simply move the ORM deep into cargo. ORM stores minerals as it does now. Each head/QM can use a modular program and/or the protolathe to request minerals. The request would include a field offering the reason for the request. Then the QM/HOP/Captain would have ~30 seconds to deny the request, or grant it immediately. There would be some modest cooldown for requests, which would be increased if the request resulted in a denial.

Fulfilled requests would immediately move those resources to the appropriate protolathe, and Cargo would get a "cut" of the value of all rare minerals sent in this manner. The only other issue would be how Viro and Robotics would get their minerals but it wouldn't be terrible hard to add the Pandemic/Exosuit Fabs to this request network. The QM/HOP/Cap program could also be used to retrieve minerals from a given lathe but that would "cost" whatever portion of the "cut" that was rewarded for fulfilling the request. Once within the protolathe the minerals couldn't be directly extracted, only if they were "refunded" back to the ORM could they be extracted as sheets (to prevent abusing the commission system).

This would, of course, result in cutting the "tech export" feature entirely.

Please code this

kevinz000 · Post by **kevinz000** » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:25 am #374065

Kor wrote:
Oldman Robustin wrote:Mineral distribution remains the biggest impediment and thats not "just a numbers issue".

My solution was to simply move the ORM deep into cargo. ORM stores minerals as it does now. Each head/QM can use a modular program and/or the protolathe to request minerals. The request would include a field offering the reason for the request. Then the QM/HOP/Captain would have ~30 seconds to deny the request, or grant it immediately. There would be some modest cooldown for requests, which would be increased if the request resulted in a denial.

Fulfilled requests would immediately move those resources to the appropriate protolathe, and Cargo would get a "cut" of the value of all rare minerals sent in this manner. The only other issue would be how Viro and Robotics would get their minerals but it wouldn't be terrible hard to add the Pandemic/Exosuit Fabs to this request network. The QM/HOP/Cap program could also be used to retrieve minerals from a given lathe but that would "cost" whatever portion of the "cut" that was rewarded for fulfilling the request. Once within the protolathe the minerals couldn't be directly extracted, only if they were "refunded" back to the ORM could they be extracted as sheets (to prevent abusing the commission system).

This would, of course, result in cutting the "tech export" feature entirely.
Please code this

reeeeeeee you said no before on this
on it.
man robustin is on a roll with the probably-good rnd ideas !

Bombadil · Post by **Bombadil** » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:16 pm #375100

Xenomorph Brains from mining necropolis chests are fucking useless now. They provide 0 node improvements for research

Mark9013100 · Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:07 pm

Items can't be recycled into protolathes/circuit imprinters like they could previously.

Bombadil · Post by **Bombadil** » Sat Jan 27, 2018 7:07 pm #376799

It would be really great if you could just press a button that would make it so if you wanted to research advanced mining tools it would just work torwards automatically unlocking everything needed to get advanced mining tools once it has enough points. After all research is literally fucking pointless it's just a waiting game now might as well automate it.

SpaceInaba · Post by **SpaceInaba** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:56 pm #377213

RD
TABLET
REMOTE
RESEARCH
SOFTWARE
PLEASE

Dr_bee · Post by **Dr_bee** » Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:02 pm #377218

SpaceInaba wrote:RD
TABLET
REMOTE
RESEARCH
SOFTWARE
PLEASE

put this in the tablet brainstorming thread if you havent already, being able to download research software to tablets would be a really good reason to use them.

Ezel · Post by **Ezel** » Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:02 am #377358

The orm should be put in the thunderdome and let the one most robust guy from all departments fight eachother for it

Zarniwoop · Post by **Zarniwoop** » Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:33 pm #381073

Bring back old RnD. This hugbox automatic shit is boring af.

SpaceInaba · Post by **SpaceInaba** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:02 am #381128

tfw science is even easier to powergame now

Xhuis · Post by **Xhuis** » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:58 am #381236

remove the research console and make the RD's tablet the only way to progress techwebs
watch smugly satisfied as tablet use skyrockets and take pride in the fact that you have made tablets meta

Post by **oranges** » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:22 am #381718

Zarniwoop wrote:Bring back old RnD. This hugbox automatic shit is boring af.

Yeah because collecting a list of items around the station and placing them into a box was totally way less hugbox

Hatfish · Post by **Hatfish** » Thu Feb 15, 2018 1:26 pm #381765

it was more engaging and less hugbox (whatever that's even meant to mean anymore) than "wait a minute, press button, wait a minute, press next button" ad nauseum.

Oldman Robustin · Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:11 pm

This entire system is a WIP but unfortunately the current "IP" part of that acronym is on Kevinz's mineral distribution PR which has gone untouched for weeks.

Everyone yell at Kev plz, thx.

Post by **oranges** » Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:44 pm #381926

He's just getting through the storage changes on his other PR, dude has too many irons in the fire

Selea · Post by **Selea** » Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:56 am #382662

Need to say, that I haven't seen any engineer building machine with their omni circuit printer.
Give CP back to RnD, or make mechanic job to fuck with upgrades/ building of machines.
Or add IT dept between engi and science and give omniCP to them.because mechanic could be part of it

factoryman942 · Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:19 am

okay so i just copied out the techwebby stuff for circuits
here's a spoiler for machines which should probably be for different departments
of course i might be wrong and the design categories might imbue some restriction or some weird shit

Spoiler:

probably more, but those are the ones 2am me can see
also messaging monitor console has no origin tech

kevinz000 · Post by **kevinz000** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:09 am #386258

Engineering is meant to be able to print all circuits and stock parts.
I'll try to assign departments to everything still, though, but Engi still can use everything.

Selea · Post by **Selea** » Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:42 am #386289

They can. But they don't.