cataclysm dark days ahead- You just cant win

TheWiznard · Post by **TheWiznard** » Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:20 am #357707

Bottom post of the previous page:

Armhulen wrote:why is frog form so bad : (

because being a frog is only good when it's your super power

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:52 am #357735

Although easier than most, CDDA is still a roguelike so you'll enjoy the game a lot more if you expect death at every corner than expecting to survive.

Deitus · Post by **Deitus** » Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:24 am #358637

on a scale from "you might last ten minutes" to "jesus christ deitus what are you even doing," how fucked am i

Drynwyn · Post by **Drynwyn** » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:51 am #358661

Deitus wrote:on a scale from "you might last ten minutes" to "jesus christ deitus what are you even doing," how fucked am i

pretty solid

if you just want to survive max dodging and take the Traceur profession

you can start with a dodging of 12 and just be unfuckinghittable, you have to avoid shockers, but that's it.

Also take Parkour Expert, it's great. Better than Quick for the cost, IMO.

Deitus · Post by **Deitus** » Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:31 pm #358896

what are some semi-up-to-date guides or videos you guys recommend to learn stuff for this game?

Xhuis · Post by **Xhuis** » Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:36 pm #358897

I'd recommend moving some of those points into melee skill (chance to hit, unarmed is mainly just damage) and maybe swapping out Fleet-Footed and Animal Empathy for some higher traits since those two aren't as useful
As for up-to-date stuff, I honestly just learned myself; most guides and the like aren't current and people don't really contribute to wikis so your best bet is learning the hard way if you're anything like me

Deitus · Post by **Deitus** » Sat Nov 18, 2017 6:40 am #359032

im really tempted to make videos or something of my playthroughs so you guys can critique/tell me what not to do, i might genuinely look into it when i get back from break.

Super Aggro Crag · Sat Nov 18, 2017 5:17 pm

If you're that bad just use debug mode to spawn yourself a full set of platemail and a greatsword

TheWiznard · Post by **TheWiznard** » Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:39 pm #359596

[youtube]hwaQHZaVtBQ[/youtube]

this guy has some good playthroughs of cdda that are entertaining + instructional in some ways, and I think it could help out to just watch a few videos, this video is his new series about a guy doing a completely naked start in the wilderness with no cities around. haven't watched the whole thing yet but since deitus seems to like wilderness might be helpful

Qbopper · Post by **Qbopper** » Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:21 pm #359601

onefjef had some good ones from what I remember

not from an educational standpoint but they were entertaining

Super Aggro Crag · Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:37 pm

I cant find any dang electronics books ree

I have a flaming zweihander tho

John_Oxford · Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:09 pm

imo the most IMPORTANT thing to have is animal empathy

wasp, bees, moose, deer, bears, anything

things that have been -known- for fucking your shit up, no longer fuck your shit up.

(citation needed for wasps and bees)

WJohnston · Post by **WJohnston** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:06 pm #360143

pretty much the only thing that really truly matters early game is parkour expert (and second to that, movement speed like fleet footed + quick), in my experience. it's absolutely monstrously good. note that parkour expert is the REASON why you can even fight well on wreckages, cars, shrubs etc -- it prevents attack speed slowdown when your movement speed is otherwise slower, giving you these ridiculously effective options.

midgame and lategame are the same pretty much regardless of what build you start with. grab a whole shitload of books from the library, start reading up on tailoring/survival/fabrication and whatever else after that. create heavy survivor armor which is literally impervious to damage from zombies AND impervious to *getting* damaged by zombies, and later on make yourself a nodachi for those sweet one-hit-kills. after that go find a science lab, get yourself an integrated toolset and metabolic interchange, and start building your deathmobile in peace. after that towards the end game, keep raiding labs until you find the alpha mutagen book and start working towards becoming an alpha.

you are now an indestructible one-hit-killing god of death and destruction who carries all his shit with him and doesn't need to defend a stationary location. this meta works 100% of the time in my experience and has yet to be redefined in years.

Super Aggro Crag · Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:47 pm

That sounds really boring

Good news for me, I drank a mutagen and grew mu legs back so I can move faster than zombies again. Ponderous and leg tentacles and the 32 encumbrance from XL survivor boots HURT my speed.

Xhuis · Post by **Xhuis** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:14 pm #360196

Night Vision is also handy at any stage in the game, since it lets you loot at night early on to avoid zombies and let you see them in the dark before they see you. I'm also lightly armored since I use Dragon Adept and like to use dodging instead, so being able to avoid fights is always good.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Wed Nov 22, 2017 7:17 pm #360197

Yeah animal empathy is okay early game but imo there are easier ways to ward off wildlife that dont sink your early game points into a trait that will pretty quickly become useless

Iatots · Post by **Iatots** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:15 pm #360400

Are you guys playing the 2015 DDA 0.C release or did you switch to another version?

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:38 pm #360405

As far as I know most people who play this game do so on the experimental branch, which is updated multiple times every day. The last stable release is basically a whole other game at this point and i can not see myself ever going back to it

lntigracy · Post by **lntigracy** » Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:46 am #360501

I've been playing on 6666 since it came out, should probably update since it's in the 6900 range now

Deitus · Post by **Deitus** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:21 pm #364664

okay i finally decided to just make videos so you guys can tell me what im doing wrong. maybe later as i keep going ill do voice too so i can nasally tell you what im thinking at any given point.

here are my first two recorded attempts:

[youtube]zxtgQ4rll2M[/youtube]

[youtube]1LrIbrMimcw[/youtube]

Iatots · Post by **Iatots** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:51 pm #364705

Your biggest problem, which you point out yourself, is temperature. Just unfold an emergency blanket bro, wear it while travelling around, and drop it before combat.
Wraps are also nice at the start for a bit of extra warmth. And sockmittens.

Some more things I caught:
survival 2: waste of points IMO, searching 5 bushes gets you to 1, and like only 20 more to survival 2.
no parkour skill: you don't *need* it but no build is EZ without it.
low scent/fast healer: meh.

Ok, so next is stamina. I suppose it's always low because of the cold, since you don't seem to be depleting it by running. This should be fixed by not freezing your ass. Consider the following once you fix stamina:
-Always run while fighting!
-Kill things one at a time, and rest to full stamina between each fight.
-Never run on bushes -> have zombies go over bushes (do you know how speed works in roguelikes?)
-Never run from something faster than you in an open field. Just like in ss13, if a traitor sabers you once, you will never be able to run away. Turn around and pray to RNJesus.
-If something hostile is 2/3rds of you LOS away or less, you don't have time to butcher.

Also CHECK THE FUCKING BASEMENT. I know that there is rarely shit down there since lootdrop has been nerfed to shit, but it's really the first thing you should do.

Deitus · Post by **Deitus** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:00 am #364753

advice noted, this is a freeform character that i forgot was freeform so i threw survival 1 in there to save the tedium of looking at bushes the start of every game before being able to make a knife spear. also, i guess i wasnt aware of fatigue all that much. how do i know when im walking vs running? ive just been using my numpad and never noticed a stamina bar of any sort.

Iatots · Post by **Iatots** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:17 am #364759

Pretty sure you toggled running when fleeing the triffids, you have it mapped to doublequote. You can tell if you are walking or running by the corresponding letters W/R in the movement section of the ui. The stamina bar is there too.

TheWiznard · Post by **TheWiznard** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:24 am #364770

also if I spawned somewhere where a fungal tower was in the overmap near me I would just restart tbh.

Deitus · Post by **Deitus** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:51 am #364774

i honestly didnt know walking/running was a thing, i thought movespeed was normal. so my stamina is draining even though im walking because of the cold then?

also made another attempt. didnt work out so hot.
[youtube]fKhnohbsNk4[/youtube]

edit: just realized i forgot to look in the basement again. whoops.

TheWiznard · Post by **TheWiznard** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 5:11 am #364811

here is 30 minutes of my shitty gameplay just for you deitus
[youtube]-OqQU-V9tC8[/youtube]

Deitus · Post by **Deitus** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 7:28 am #364879

list of stupid questions while i watch this:
how do i enable npc's in my world?
how do i examine my distant surroundings, both with how you cycled between monsters and "free looked" tile by tile?
how do i yell?
how do i peek?
how in the fuck do you keep attacking zombies on shrubs without them attacking you? i always try to do that but they just hop off and start beating my shit. is it because im trying to engage from range with knife spear?
on a related note, how do you know how many times you can hit an enemy before they can get off the obstacle?
if you didnt have the npc to tank for you, how would you have approached the same situation in terms of exploration and combat?
how do you multidrop?
why is loida so qt and bestgirl-tier?

Iatots · Post by **Iatots** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:03 am #364887

-World gen options.
-Check your keybindings, he is using x to look around and tab to cycle items/monsters.
-Huh I forgot
-Uppercase X. (by default, check keybindings)
-Welcome to roguelikes. Every tile has a movement cost, and a bushes movement cost is quite high. That means that anything wanting to walk over it spends more "turns" compared to a flat terrain. With a decent attack speed, you can get a lot of hits off. The zombie is not walking off the bush because it is already adjacent to Wiznerd so it's focusing on attack.
-You kinda don't in advance, mostly you learn from experience what to expect. The quicker a monster runs at you, the higher their speed and the less time for them to cross obstacles.
-Lure stragglers away and poke them over a bush, or a window frame.
-Lowercase d to drop on your tile, uppercase for a tile adjacent to you. (by default, check your keybindings)
-Functional strenght.

Deitus · Post by **Deitus** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:40 am #364891

yeah but the zombie was just standing there while he wailed on it, was it just because he had the stats to attack quickly? like i keep saying, i kite a mob onto an obstacle and i can only land one hit (or at least attempt to) before the mob is off the obstacle and back in range to attack me, and usually do. that is to say
>move into kiting position by obstacle
>as soon as the mob is on the obstacle/within range, i swing once
>at the end of my "swing" turn the mob is already off the obstacle and has attacked me once before i have a chance to create more distance
i gotta be doing something wrong in this regard but i cant figure out what.

also
>decide fuck it ill make an entirely OP character
>20 in all stats
>10 in dodging
>STILL die almost immediately

im beginning to think this game just plain doesnt like me.

Iatots · Post by **Iatots** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:10 am #364903

Well I just killed some zombos no problemo with 10 in all stats and 5 dodge using the knife spear.
What's your version? And also, check the mods you are loading for the world. Your worlds seems colder than average.

Are you running? Running is pretty important for repositioning. Also, if you manage to get a zombie on a bush adjacent to you, you might as well hit it and get distance instead of moving away and using a reach attack with the spear.

Chest encumberance is pretty important too. If you start with a winter jacket (survivor?) chest wraps aren't useful, just put on a blanket while you run around and drop it once combat starts.

TheWiznard · Post by **TheWiznard** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:29 pm #365002

[youtube]Oz-7HO6jRKw[/youtube]

Deitus · Post by **Deitus** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:33 pm #365030

Iatots wrote:Well I just killed some zombos no problemo with 10 in all stats and 5 dodge using the knife spear.
What's your version? And also, check the mods you are loading for the world. Your worlds seems colder than average.

Are you running? Running is pretty important for repositioning. Also, if you manage to get a zombie on a bush adjacent to you, you might as well hit it and get distance instead of moving away and using a reach attack with the spear.

Chest encumberance is pretty important too. If you start with a winter jacket (survivor?) chest wraps aren't useful, just put on a blanket while you run around and drop it once combat starts.

i use the latest version updater, and i run. ill stop using chest wraps but i have noticed that when i put on sock mitts as suggested it encumbers my hands, would that be a problem?
here's a vid of me setting up a new world, ill make a new attempt vid later today.
[youtube]7a1-nIQydoU[/youtube]

edit: didnt realize it picked up me listening to music too, just mute it

John_Oxford · Post by **John_Oxford** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:15 pm #365046

encumberance on your hands if i recall completely fucks any hope you had of hitting anything

encumberance in general completely fucks your dodge ability too.

if you're about to fight something just drop all your equipment. more so backpacks if you happen to be carrying one

install a tileset too, damn.

Deitus · Post by **Deitus** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:21 pm #365047

John_Oxford wrote:encumberance on your hands if i recall completely fucks any hope you had of hitting anything

encumberance in general completely fucks your dodge ability too.

if you're about to fight something just drop all your equipment. more so backpacks if you happen to be carrying one

install a tileset too, damn.

i was told/under the impression that tilesets are unreliable at best and game-breaking at worst, especially since im using the update launcher

Iatots · Post by **Iatots** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:43 pm #365054

Encumberance from gloves and most mittens is very small, you can keep your hands warm and protected for less than 10 encumberance (combined with other items), which is nothing with your starting stats. A sling shouldn't be a problem either, but if you are missing often chest encumberance could be a cause.

Deitus · Post by **Deitus** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:30 am #365141

new vid featuring my nasally voice and shitty mic asking beginner-tier questions.
[youtube]cP-nBRPrctc[/youtube]

Iatots · Post by **Iatots** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:43 pm #365222

type a number before dropping/picking up something. If you do this correctly, a # will appear next to the item name. (the way I would pick up something, for example, is (E)xamine tile, see 200 twigs, type 3, press right arrow while twigs are evidenced, and then press enter to get my 3 twigs)
there is no reason to wield the pocket knife, the (B)utcher menu lets you cut up stuff on the floor too.
You can see your encumberance on the character (@) or worn items (+) screen. the (+) screen also lets you re-layer your clothing, important for when you get armor.
You can't carry items if you are dead. Drop the sling if you need to fight.
-Also, if you decide to fight, drop stuff before aggroing enemies.
While luring enemies on NPCs might be a valid tactic according to some people, try taking out dogs, coyotes and other small animals yourself as practice.
Some vehicle parts have storage (trunks, seats etc). You can see at a distance if something is in them because the icon will have a colored background.
-This doesn't work for furniture like drawers and cupboard at a distance. You need to be adjacent to them to have their contents appear, V won't show you at a distance.
V gives you both items and monster, use tab to cycle.
The red asterisk on the map is probably your quest target.
"what's the point of X" is a low morale telltale.
You *can* always see enemies at the edge of your screen. In safe mode, as soon as you can spot one the game freezes. If safe mode is off you can walk on them and not notice. You can use singlequote (') to ignore all enemies of one type you currently see to not turn off safe mode but still be able to move around aggressive animals. Example: The game freezes, there is one aggressive dog in the distance. You ignore it. You keep walking towards it and more aggressive dogs pop up. You keep walking, now the game freezes,you can see an aggressive cougar is fighting the dogs. You ignore the cougar, distance yourself and get everything out of your sight. You now have 0 monsters in your LOS and are still in safe mode.
Mi-gos, when you look at them, are pretty unnatural. Other unnatural monsters are grecks, grackens, krecks and amoebic blobs, so when you see one of these, there is a chance one of the others is near. When you saw that loot next to the amoebic blob, you should have circled the house first to avoid being sideblinded. You should always scout a place out as much as possible before moving in.

That should be all for this video.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:11 pm #365287

Iatots wrote:

"what's the point of X" is a low morale telltale.

What's the point of tai chi again?

Super Aggro Crag · Sun Dec 10, 2017 8:12 pm

Better than aikido

Deitus · Post by **Deitus** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:33 am #365385

i got into a town and found a basement that, once cleared of rats, was actually full of food and a gun. there's a house across the street though that has a shitton of tools, guns, and ammo, but all the windows are barred and the doors are metal. i dont know how to get in other than to try improvised lockpicks on the door but im not sure where to get the scrap metal from. are shelves/book cases made of metal?

once i figure that stuff out ill probably try to level tailoring so i can actually carry things, i think i remember wyzack saying i should make a needle and thread and just use it on what i have continually to grind it? how do i add pockets and stuff to things so that im not so encumbered / have to take a bunch of shit off every time i wanna fight?

also, i got a pot. i need to figure out how to cook things / boil water so i can drink it safely. tips?

lntigracy · Post by **lntigracy** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:32 am #365412

Crash a car into the boarded up building.

Or break the fortifications down slowly.

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:33 am #365413

Break the lockers in your shelter by smashing them.

Don't use guns, they're too loud and they'll miss often.

Boiling water requires stuff that can heat or a nearby fire. I think you should be able to do that with no skill level. When you have either, oepn your crafting menu & and scroll to cooking. Clean water should be selectable if you have all the requirements.

If you want to make needles just level fabrication to level two by making fishing hooks and then go ham. You can thread from dissasembling cotton balls or rags.

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 3:34 am #365414

If the windows are barred, try using a crowbar on them and see if that removes the barring. If it's metal bars, use a hacksaw next to them to cut the bars down.

If it is the type of house I think it is, thread carefully.

Deitus · Post by **Deitus** » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:10 am #365438

i got in, i was dumb and it was actually just a gun store. lots of basic tools in the rat basement house i found, though i might set up a base in the gunstore just because its so well protected. there's lots of windows but i can just board those up, ill maybe post a vid later showing all the loot in both areas and you guys can give tips.

Qbmax32 · Post by **Qbmax32** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:19 pm #366230

Just picked this up using the launcher and started playing, its awesome can’t wait to play more

▲▲▲ · Post by **▲▲▲** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:27 pm #366288

Long time cataclysm player here, before the 'dda' shit happened.
Started playing just before vehicles were a mod.

Best tactic I have found so far is to just cheese the game, figure out what's currently broken and then exploit.
There are far more legitimate routes, but one tends to get sick of the tried and tested strategies.

Unfortunately, when something comes along that's a significant advantage the dev's like to nerf or 'realism' the shit out of it.
A few examples through history:

Vehicles could disintegrate virtually any monster with little to no damage - Got changed so that shrubs can shatter steel frames and engine blocks.
Now you can spend a week or two ingame, covering your vehicle in armor to achieve more or less the same results.

Guns, especially shotguns used to be capable of destroying hulks in a shot or two - Dev's added magazines to help bloat it up a bit, then decided it was not enough and added a cumbersome aiming system.

Initial static spawns could be dealt with relative ease, As opposed to loud noises materializing zombies in dynamic - Added an extra button to press for extra tedium ('S'mashing corpses), then basically added dynamic spawning back in via hordes.

Throwing was largely overpowered up until recently. Used to be quite easy to skill up in that and pick off zombies with just rocks.

Food & water used to be valuable, now it's possible to secure an infinite supply of both within the first few days. Developers added a vitamin system, making multivitamins the new valuable resource.

More or less the same thing happened with clothing, low encumbrance storage items used to be rare and extremely useful. Now it can all be obtained via mindless grinding of skills. In order counter this dev's added dirty clothing which does
practically nothing as materials for clothing are a cakewalk to get.

Same shit happened with weapons, can craft decent weapons with more mindless grinding. Good weapons can also be crafted if you find one of the relevant books.

CBM's are still decent and have largely been unchanged other than the recent addition of requiring painkillers to install.

Overall, Cataclysm has experienced a shift in gameplay over the years. The quality of life features and content in DDA is far superior to cataclysm, but on the other hand I have found it to be far more dull.
Personally, I found it far more engaging to pray to RNG and then winning big when I found a utility vest or a katana. This still exists to some extent, until you find a few bottles and a tin can.
But now, because I'm a lazy bastard I can just take the easy way out and sit in an RV with funnels and solar panels near an ants nest or a swamp for a virtually endless supply of food and water with no need to actually go anywhere or do anything.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:56 pm #366303

sounds like ss13 burnout except not in ss13

▲▲▲ · Post by **▲▲▲** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:15 pm #366316

DemonFiren wrote:sounds like ss13 burnout except not in ss13

Could not agree more.

The problem is that it's now way easier to get burnout, I showed CDDA to a few friends and they got bored within a month or two.
It's degenerated from an open world roguelike, to an open world survival crafting game.

The original had just one page, no tabs. Just one page of things to craft, along with the construction menu.
Let that sink in, it's all cold and ceramic.

Sure, there's still permadeath, and an initial learning curve but that's all it has going for it.

Iatots · Post by **Iatots** » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:24 pm #366332

Yeah once the sense of discovery is gone this game becomes really dull. Tried to check the forums out and the first thread I saw was the dev arguing semantics and ignoring the feedback on some dumb feature to nerf stuff. Came back from 0.C because of this thread an nope, still the same after however many revisions.

Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:23 am

▲▲▲ wrote:
DemonFiren wrote:sounds like ss13 burnout except not in ss13
Could not agree more.

The problem is that it's now way easier to get burnout, I showed CDDA to a few friends and they got bored within a month or two.
It's degenerated from an open world roguelike, to an open world survival crafting game.

The original had just one page, no tabs. Just one page of things to craft, along with the construction menu.
Let that sink in, it's all cold and ceramic.

Sure, there's still permadeath, and an initial learning curve but that's all it has going for it.

can you not download an old revision?

▲▲▲ · Post by **▲▲▲** » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:01 am #366506

PKPenguin321 wrote: can you not download an old revision?

Sure can, there are archives that still exist, and the original is still on github last time I checked.

The problem is that DDA is better in some aspects, especially in terms of QOL. There's a whole host of useful menus and context sensitive helpers.

This serves to detract from the original cataclysm experience, and all the aforementioned shit helps detract from the DDA experience - Essentially making both games worse.

I still think about maintaining my own coremod, that cuts out majority of the shit but it's a lot of work for something that only a handful of people will enjoy.

Also have plans to do a total conversion to 'MadMaxRL', The engine is not up to scratch yet, and probably never will be.
All of the interesting PR's tend to just die off in favor of 'muh realism' and 'nerf dis'.

Here's some links that do a good job of summing up the developers:
Gun accuracy:
https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclys ... sues/21244
Throwing:
https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclys ... sues/20414
Sharp Rocks:
https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclys ... sues/20924
Nerf CBM's pls:
https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclys ... sues/20383

The title of this thread basically sums up the whole thing:
http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?topic=13234.0

Virtually every PR regarding balance becomes an argumentative shitfest, where there is either no result, or it ends up significantly worse in some way.
PR's regarding functional content tend to get ignored/dropped in favor of PR's that just add more JSON shit or balance PR's.

And if you actually desire to work on the game, and submit your content good fucking luck.
Dev's are largely unhelpful, unresponsive and prefer to keep within their own little circlejerk.