Smoke machine needs a nerf/removal

[Dax Dupont]

This thing can cover the central hallway in skewium/memechems as fast as you can run.
The radius on the thing is insane since it can cover the entire meta escape shuttle without being moved in deathmix/lube/skewium/meth.

Not only that, the smoke blocks vision and sticks around for a good 10 seconds or so which results in people escaping and what not. Since it easily covers everything it becomes a disaster.

This should arguably be nerfed and not be available on round start in chemistry. It should ideally be locked behind high research/techweb.

[Dax Dupont]

Also re: logs and notifications
Notify admins when someone activates a smoke machine #31582
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/31582

[oranges]

shall we try again?

[Oldman Robustin]

Ok from the top:

4) 2 puffs from the machine got everyone tripping for about 30 seconds unless they had on internals or a gas mask, and there was plenty of warning for either.

5) I found a bug this morning that would let me move the machine while its on, I promptly fixed it and the PR is waiting for merge - letting you move the machine while its on is a bug and greatly increases its power, nevertheless this device has performed admirably and if the OP kneejerked any harder they'd have a broken nose.

Mod edit:I've snipped out all the things in your post that are not about the balance of the smoke machine, take it to fucking FNR

[oranges]

By the way you've addressed very few of their actual points

The radius on the thing is insane since it can cover the entire meta escape shuttle without being moved in deathmix/lube/skewium/meth.

Not only that, the smoke blocks vision and sticks around for a good 10 seconds or so which results in people escaping and what not. Since it easily covers everything it becomes a disaster.

[Dr_bee]

By the way you've addressed very few of their actual points

The radius on the thing is insane since it can cover the entire meta escape shuttle without being moved in deathmix/lube/skewium/meth.

Not only that, the smoke blocks vision and sticks around for a good 10 seconds or so which results in people escaping and what not. Since it easily covers everything it becomes a disaster.

Wouldnt dragging a damn machine onto the shuttle be treated the same as anyone dragging a canister onto the shuttle? I.e. cause for immediate robusting? once the playerbase can recognize the moving of a smoke machine as a threat like the movement of a canister then the problem will solve itself via players busting the machine or the machine user.

Give it some time folks. Its been what, a few days since it was added?

[Armhulen]

By the way you've addressed very few of their actual points

The radius on the thing is insane since it can cover the entire meta escape shuttle without being moved in deathmix/lube/skewium/meth.

Not only that, the smoke blocks vision and sticks around for a good 10 seconds or so which results in people escaping and what not. Since it easily covers everything it becomes a disaster.

Wouldnt dragging a damn machine onto the shuttle be treated the same as anyone dragging a canister onto the shuttle? I.e. cause for immediate robusting? once the playerbase can recognize the moving of a smoke machine as a threat like the movement of a canister then the problem will solve itself via players busting the machine or the machine user.

Give it some time folks. Its been what, a few days since it was added?

This. Doing anything would be extremely premature.

[captain sawrge]

The entire feature feels fairly redundant considering it's an easier smoke grenade but I suppose it will at least be balanced out more if it can't be moved. The radius and the fact that you just can not do anything within the smoke cloud due to obscured vision is still kind of insane.

[ShadowDimentio]

You can still act using altclick but it's quite hard

[onleavedontatme]

I guess I did not pay close enough attention to the PR, but I was under the impression you would have to build the machine on site as a balancing measure.

Even with the proposed change/fix it looks like you can drag it around, wrench it down, and turn it on wherever you please.

[captain sawrge]

I guess I did not pay close enough attention to the PR, but I was under the impression you would have to build the machine on site as a balancing measure.

Even with the proposed change/fix it looks like you can drag it around, wrench it down, and turn it on wherever you please.

Assumed proposed fix was the former, if it's still wrenchable that's pretty broken

[Oldman Robustin]

By the way you've addressed very few of their actual points

The radius on the thing is insane since it can cover the entire meta escape shuttle without being moved in deathmix/lube/skewium/meth.

Not only that, the smoke blocks vision and sticks around for a good 10 seconds or so which results in people escaping and what not. Since it easily covers everything it becomes a disaster.

Because those points are literally "WHY I DONT LIKE SMOKE".

The machine has to be anchored, it has to be powered, and if at any point anyone is suspicious of you hauling the giant blue smoke maker onto a confined space like the shuttle, they can walk up to it and with the click of a single button permanently destroy all the chemicals inside. The fact that the OP did just that and nearly killed me for following the captain's orders and getting people high for 30 seconds shows how stupid this argument is.

In the time it takes to construct one of these I couldve made a handful of smoke grenades full of whatever fucking mix and pounded the shuttle.

This device exists for convenience, not for robustness, the arguments against it are so contrived its actually hurting my head since I have yet to see this device actually seriously hurt or kill anyone.

You know what else is a dangerous smoke effect that lasts the ENTIRE SHUTTLE RIDE and requires internals to survive? The same fucking plasma thats readily available to medical/cargo/science/engineering every single round. I can also fit plasma in my bag or put it in a canister that can be recolored in the click of a button. A smoke machine is a smoke machine and can instantly have its entire contents purged by ANYONE NEARBY.

Ring me up with this machine actually racks up a goddamn bodycount and people here aren't just using "feedback" as "doomsday hypothesis to justify why I want something removed".



In other news im revamping the machine a little, new sprite, transparent smoke, but im putting the fucker in chemistry because I did not code this fucking thing just to have it end up being more accessible to scientists than chemists. I just can't wrap my mind around why the fuck this thing is getting so much speculative judgment. It's in the fucking game assholes go use it and if you think its OP, go show me why instead of playing forum warrior.

[iamgoofball]

Hey robustin welcome to adding goofchem

[kevinz000]

show me why

ok

[Dr_bee]

>load smoke machine with plasmaman mutation toxins

If you can generate enough of that toxin to make the smoke machine last a decent amount of time you deserve the kills you rack up.

Also transparent smoke would be a good addition to the game in general, opaque smoke should be its own separate reaction or chemical additive.

[CPTANT]

I get the feeling all the arguments against the smoke machine also apply to regular grenades.

[Hathkar]

The last round I was traitor and had romerol, I was planning on grabbing the smoke machine and loading it up with romerol. So yes, it's a bit too potent to just turn on and drag around right now.