Tackling the security problem.

Raven776 · Post by **Raven776** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:04 pm #32672

Bottom post of the previous page:

No, we went from Security to NTSL to AI to Telescience and then back to AI.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:01 pm #32718

Returning to Sec: Give the HoS and Warden derelict batons.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:39 pm #32735

I'm against giving the warden anything fun that he might want to leave the armory to use.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:15 pm #32740

Saegrimr wrote:I'm against giving the warden anything fun that he might want to leave the armory to use.

I'm sure the warden can find ways to enjoy that prod without needing to leave the brig.

JJRcop · Post by **JJRcop** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:45 pm #32752

cedarbridge wrote:
Saegrimr wrote:I'm against giving the warden anything fun that he might want to leave the armory to use.
I'm sure the warden can find ways to enjoy that prod without needing to leave the brig.

Only when she's alone, or not, if you like that kind of thing.

Antimattercarp · Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:21 pm

I am in full support of the command line editing of the sec recs, I would perfer it not be via PDA but it needs to happen imo

JJRcop · Post by **JJRcop** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 12:23 am #32810

Well, what I meant is it being accessible to PDAs as well as records computers, with the records computers having the current system as additional functionality. I know that isn't what I originally said, but if you mean that you don't want it accessible via sec cartridge PDA and just via computers, I disagree with that.

Antimattercarp · Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:12 pm

I would think that if it is tied to the PDA it would be hard to secure, I would still like it to be mobile in some way.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:36 pm #33056

I am working on it (still in early stages), and the plan is that it can be used with the PDA or with a records computer, but I could implement a blacklist for lost PDAs, though whoever stole the PDA could go and use a computer anyways.

Kuraudo · Post by **Kuraudo** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:51 pm #33815

Why can't security get something as simple as black gloves, for them not to litter their own prints on a crime scene ?

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 1:52 pm #33816

Kuraudo wrote:Why can't security get something as simple as black gloves, for them not to litter their own prints on a crime scene ?

There have been several attempts to do that, however it gets denied.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:28 pm #33825

Even cargo has black gloves. What the hell.

But honestly, not black gloves, security gloves. Otherwise it's gonna be even worse attempting to determine who touched this door only to find out it was an officer.

Kuraudo · Post by **Kuraudo** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:37 pm #33827

Steelpoint wrote:
Kuraudo wrote:Why can't security get something as simple as black gloves, for them not to litter their own prints on a crime scene ?
There have been several attempts to do that, however it gets denied.

I have the feeling that everything proposed by the players is getting denied or tossed away. Any idea, any tweak, anything.
How can the admins and coders pretend that the feedback is taken into account when they can't give us something as basic as gloves at roundstart for security ?

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:42 pm #33828

There's nothing stopping us from taking another crack at 'Sec Gloves 2014'.

Kuraudo · Post by **Kuraudo** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:54 pm #33831

Steelpoint wrote:There's nothing stopping us from taking another crack at 'Sec Gloves 2014'.

In theory, yeah, nothing.
Let's create a 6 pages topic, arguing about security, cargo, the meaning of life and the Hegelian totality, wasting time and brainpower in a desperate move to get security gloves at roundstart.
Go take a look at the "ideas" subforums. How many of those player ideas actually got implemented ?

This topic is open since more than one month. We talked about giving maint access for sec, we talked about sec gloves, and many other things. What's been gived to security in a coding level as a result of those talks ? Nothing.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 2:56 pm #33832

That would be because a vast majority of ideas require someone to take the time and effort to code the idea.

I will put up a PR for security gloves once my current armour buff PR gets merged (or not).

Reimoo · Post by **Reimoo** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:29 pm #33840

Kuraudo wrote: Go take a look at the "ideas" subforums. How many of those player ideas actually got implemented ?

It takes almost universal acceptance of an idea to get it implemented. Even one small shred of disapproval and we've got a 10 page thread with people arguing over nothing. And even then, it's still a coin toss to see whether or not the coders were paying attention.

Also, not to mention some if not most of the ideas are shit and/or somewhere between difficult and impossible to implement.

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 4:56 pm #33845

And also coders can't be arsed to work on something they don't like.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:36 pm #33855

Yeah people don't really want to work on something they don't like for free and absolutely no benefit.

It's open source, learn2code and do whatever you want.

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:43 pm #33868

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:Yeah people don't really want to work on something they don't like for free and absolutely no benefit.

It's open source, learn2code and do whatever you want.

And then watch it get denied. ツ

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 6:56 pm #33874

Oh yeah better not do anything at all, so it won't get denied.

For the record, of all PRs I created (to be fair that's not many), exactly 0 were denied.

Incomptinence · Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:05 pm

Giving sec gloves to put on would be a mapping change anyway.

It isn't like there is a shortage of black gloves in cargo and engineering. Will they run out of insulated gloves? Probably (temporarily for cargo). However they don't even care about black gloves and will just leave them laying about like garbage.

Security isn't even fit to have a refuse item apparently. You actually ask these departments for their black gloves and for a moment they are CONFUSED "why would anyone want that shit I love my mellow yellow" then they will just let your have it. Why cargo even start with black gloves is unusual, it is more of an atmos tech item due to being balanced for fire resistance, oh atmos probably have spares too.

Rumia29 · Post by **Rumia29** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:54 pm #33915

Depends how many atmos techs are on the station. 2-3? Probably no spares.
But I digress, rather off topic.

Post by **lumipharon** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:46 pm #33935

Metastation used to have sec gloves in the brig, then sec officers on NT spawned with gloves, and eventually the gloves were removed from the brig since they were redundant. And everything was great because everyone had gloves either way.

Reimoo · Post by **Reimoo** » Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:58 pm #33940

So what exactly are the arguments against gloves, if any? Why has it taken so long?

Incomptinence · Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:04 pm

I dunno maybe detective is required to suffer and look up his security officers prints all the drat time.

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:00 am #34013

Security had special security gloves, different from black gloves, so people would know that black gloves meant atmo techs, but security gloves meant security.

Incomptinence · Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:35 am

Yeah think I recall that vaguely. Mostly went there for non suffering in service roles.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 6:17 am #34068

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/5104

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 5:12 pm #34168

paprika wrote:https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/5104

>People ask for gloves for security to prevent evidence contamination
>Put up a pull to give security fingerless gloves

Hurrrrr...

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 10:57 pm #34310

paprika wrote:https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/5104

>fingerless gloves
That is incredibly retarded

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Mon Oct 06, 2014 11:51 pm #34329

Psyentific wrote:
paprika wrote:https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/5104
>fingerless gloves
That is incredibly retarded

I can't wait. I'm going to impress all the ladies with my new gloves and my canesword.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:50 am #34401

Malkevin wrote:
paprika wrote:https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/5104
>People ask for gloves for security to prevent evidence contamination
>Put up a pull to give security fingerless gloves

Hurrrrr...

>make pull to give security normal gloves
>closed by ayyranclmaos immediately

this is the only way sec is getting any sort of gloves

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:35 am #34417

And its still a pointless pull, we don't want gloves for style we want them for practicality

Reimoo · Post by **Reimoo** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 6:45 am #34420

Style always matters. The only kind of officer that would wear fingerless gloves instead of real gloves would be a thug with a badge.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:09 am #34422

Malkevin wrote:we don't want gloves for style we want them for practicality

speak for yourself.

Also I changed the PR to add regular gloves. We'll see how long it lasts.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:51 am #34427

Aaaaand closed. Oh well. /tg/ is aran's personal codebase after all and nobody's opinion but his matters.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:09 am #34430

let's make brig into kindergarten and security officers into nannies

for roleplaying sake

Paps, could you still replace black gloves with fingerless outside of security for forensics sake please?

Incomptinence · Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:11 am

Any sec gloves are too scary? Even fingerless buffoon gloves people were laughing at? I guess cargo techs and engineers are the real monsters.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:47 am #34445

Aran having bad opinions about roleplay stuff is pretty much nothing new you'll come to find.

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:40 am #34454

paprika wrote:Aaaaand closed. Oh well. /tg/ is aran's personal codebase after all and nobody's opinion but his matters.

That really ticks me off, actually. Moreso than gloves normally would. We've got a few pages of discussion, we're all agreeing "Yes, Sec should have some kind of gloves", a commit goes up for an ultimately trivial thing that does abso-fucking-lutely nothing mechanically, and Aran closes it because lolreasons. Like our opinions don't fucking matter at all here, only his. This is bullshit.

Edit:

BEHOLD

Out of a half-dozen people who responded, not a single person said no. Someone said "Seems like an oversight that they don't", another said "Oh, insert codebase here has had them for ages", another said "But wouldn't gloves be OP in the hands of anyone but Security?"

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:12 am #34455

Psyentific wrote:Out of a half-dozen people who responded

Boy you sure did your research

kosmos · Post by **kosmos** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:22 am #34457

Psyentific wrote:another said "But wouldn't gloves be OP in the hands of anyone but Security?"

Now that you brought the subject up, what's with Cargo Techs, Roboticists and Atmos Techs having black gloves? If they can have it, why not Officers also, security would be the only one that benefits from those (aside from antags in those previous departments). The only department without fingerprint-proof gloves are Security, Medbay and the Civilian jobs.
Detectives are mostly completely useless because of this, it would be nice to narrow the black gloves -fibers down a little.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:13 pm #34495

paprika wrote:Aran having bad opinions about roleplay stuff is pretty much nothing new you'll come to find.

The swooping in veto was really hamfisted. I'd like Aran to come into this thread and actually defend their actions. I know they won't, but you know, accountability and such.

Reimoo · Post by **Reimoo** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 7:20 pm #34544

M-muh RPs guys

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:01 pm #34550

Reimoo wrote:M-muh RPs guys

That's what I meant. I want to know what's "unfriendly" about gloves that isn't "unfriendly" about helmets and gasmasks that scream "YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SHUT THE FUCK UP"

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:17 pm #34559

Sec masks are my greatest contribution to the game.

Incomptinence · Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:53 pm

Sec gas masks are ironically useful for talking to the crew. A pretty reliable was to break them out of their constant sprint and ask some questions, even if all it says boils down to ARREST YOU!

As I said earlier about half the departmental offices have surplus of the damn things and those officers can get them easy. In fact I turn my nose up at insulated gloves left out in the open because I know they get short of them and all I really want is to help my detective a little.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:57 pm #34569

Incomptinence wrote:Sec gas masks are ironically useful for talking to the crew. A pretty reliable was to break them out of their constant sprint and ask some questions, even if all it says boils down to ARREST YOU!

That was the point.

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:37 pm #34593

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:
Psyentific wrote:Out of a half-dozen people who responded
Boy you sure did your research

Nine people.
And this entire thread.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:07 pm #34598

Also the masks only tell people to shut the fuck up if the officer goes out their way to take some wirecutters to the mask, they have to opt in to activating the shitcurrity phrases