let's talk about the NULL crate

[ma44]

Goofball is somehow trying to get them removed after buffing it before so it shows the players are retarded (but it still gave more loot than before so lol)

Tho this is a neat topic about the discussion of the null crate for balance memes.

[John_Oxford]

only way to generate more syndicate items

there are no other obtainable ways to generate a infinite number of syndicate items

late game syndicate items are important to round progression and stability by keeping the power in the party who obtains them

[calzilla1]

Didn't we nerf cargo into the ground for this very reason?

[Gun Hog]

I do not feel there is a need to change the Syndicate Surplus Crate (The correct name). If Cargo orders several of them, that means that the Traitor can order them and murderbone, but that same muderbone can be shut down by people with the same item. It is the American approach to firearms!

[Lazengann]

More like some assistant will start throwing EMPs everywhere because he thinks it's funny

[AnonymousNow]

Spoiler:

Tories: We want to sell off the NHS to private medical care providers.

The People: What? No. Fuck off.

Tories: Fine. We're going to stealthily defund the NHS so it underperforms.

The People: Did you say something?

Tories: We didn't say anything. But hey, look, the NHS is underperforming! We should definitely sell it off!

The People: Well-

Tories: TOO LATE! MONEY MONEY MONEY! DOSH! READIES! GREEN! WONGAAAAAAAAA!

Seems like another patented Goof anti-fun push.

The Syndicate Surplus crate is a fun addition for any Syndie who manages to somehow secure cargo bay and a whole fuckton of points, and is also fun for a crew that do the same with the added caveat of needing to find an electromagnetic card somewhere (a thing they'd never normally find).

If it's such a problem, nerf it to pre-buff condition.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Its is extremely foolish to assume that cargo won't actively tolerate a traitor to emag the cargo console solely to get this crate and dispense it to the crew, because as we know cargonians are selfish gun hoarders and pretty much anybody who defends the null crate is usually counted amongst the numbers of those who rush the crate, as well as wear the contents of the crate in public such as hardsuits running around the station on adrenals dragging soap non-antag to be alarming annoyances.

If security gets pissed off with the amount of IC space law restricted contraband, they are within their rights to confiscate it (bag it and throw in armory/RnD decon it) and destroy the cargo console fairly enough to keep the peace until the emagger is found.

> Syndicate items are generally better, and our players like min-maxing to have the best equipment even if they aren't kosher in the IC game.

[Professor Hangar]

So more fun, more toys, and more things for security to do that isn't validhunting? If all else fails they can give the tator items to R&D to both destroy them and get kosher improvements on them.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Besides the point that its a waste of security's time when there are REAL traitors out there murdering people, and it gives people a shitty alibi to hide in the crowd of idiots all wearing traitor gear they shouldn't even have. RnD can only destroy so much as a better alternative is to put dangerous (but useful) pieces in the armory or literally take it out to the garbage crusher and destroy it.

[Professor Hangar]

So?

[calzilla1]

Make it so that its half random crate and half bundle box

[AnonymousNow]

It sounds to me like you're describing a viable tato strategy that preys on the sensibilities of the crew to sow discord on the station.

[Lumbermancer]

When you read this thread remember to replace the word "fun" with "griefing".

[FantasticFwoosh]

It sounds to me like you're describing a viable tato strategy that preys on the sensibilities of the crew to sow discord on the station.

Its about as "strategical" as opening the armory or growing & dispensing gatfruit (which i tried & failed to nerf to stop this happening) instead its a server culture problem where people scramble for guns and never give them up, often having to literally fight it out of thier hands, or the guns end up being accessories to robberies of the armory (shooting/meleeing down windows and doors to get into armory and collect more guns) by non-antags.

If every traitor round is undermined by bullshit wizard-esque (give guns to everyone) almost back to back every round people will not want to play and show the same level of enthusiasm for how they feel fighting against cult or conversion antags where it feels repetitive in sequence when the same type of conversion rounds are constantly picked.

Once again it totally undermines security as vigilantism, "get gud" powergamers, and people who greyshit for no reason get weapons and sometimes out robust the traitor with them, revealing it to be a very flawed strat for the same reasons that summoning guns (but nobody is given gun nut antagonist objectives) purely means the wiz is going to get shot eventually. If the real indistinguishable traitor is dead, you've still got a crew full of greyshit undesirables running around with traitor gear that need to be picked through & policed by responsible remaining security staff.

If a admin is not there to handle any ahelps resulting from the syndicate items (etc. "ThisCkey" just ebowed me to steal the armory, valid ???") then multiply shittyness
by x10.

• Oh yeah, count the number of people who actively wont ahelp shitty behaviour either because they think the person is a traitor or it DA or usually state (is X Valid! ???)

[AnonymousNow]

Sounds like a player problem, not a feature problem. The bid to remove this crate because of misuse by some people penalises others whilst going against the sacred mantra of "improve, don't remove"; but more importantly, it's never been the case that null crates have been ordered every traitor round.

If this has started happening recently, and has become actually disruptive rather than in-game disruptive, then we should look at why that happened and fix THAT issue, rather than sharpening the butcher's knife as Goof is wont to do.

[Cobby]

So more fun, more toys, and more things for security to do that isn't validhunting? If all else fails they can give the tator items to R&D to both destroy them and get kosher improvements on them.

You mean like get killed because they try to stop a person in obv traitor gear and gets killed only to be found out they weren't a traitor at all.

The only way for security to stop it is to kill everyone involved or else they're going to kill security out of "self defense", it is the purest form of self antagging because you purposely carry antag gear and hope to use it on anyone that tries to stop you for being a traitor.

Ever since it switched from the set items with functionality to wildcard traitor items it has been absolutely stupid.

Also I hate the emag so I REALLY hate how you can get the elusive 6 tc item to bypass the balance of TC pricing

[D&B]

Improve, don't remove is not sacred.

[AnonymousNow]

It's strange that people conveniently forget the cost of the crate itself when complaining about it, especially since it's one of the most expensive items on the list (unless that's been changed as well). It's not infinite free crates full of goodies if they cost something that's difficult to acquire, natch.

[captain sawrge]

Daily reminder that the easiest and fastest way to fix player problems is with code solutions

[calzilla1]

I'll be part of the anti null crate crowd when we male cargo actually FUN AAAAAAAAA

[Cobby]

It's strange that people conveniently forget the cost of the crate itself when complaining about it, especially since it's one of the most expensive items on the list (unless that's been changed as well). It's not infinite free crates full of goodies if they cost something that's difficult to acquire, natch.

*stares at the ORM* are you SURE about that

[AnonymousNow]

Yeah, I'm fairly certain that those points can't be used to buy a null crate, since it's on a seperate system - crates and materials like plasma etc. need to be sent on the cargo shuttle to Centcom before you can accrue cargo points.

Unless THAT'S been changed as well, in which case the Null Crate has definitely been set up to fail, and at such a point it can be called code sabotage.

[Cobby]

Delete your post immediately

[AnonymousNow]

[FantasticFwoosh]

Tech disks accrue something like 40k upward points, as well as selling all the plasma intake miners bring back (a lot)

[Lazengann]

Quantum disks are over 100,000 if anyone did research correctly

[AnonymousNow]

That's a lot of ifs. They keep piling up.

[kevinz000]

Everyone who thinks null crates used with cargo mining and science cooperation is balanced is wrong.

[calzilla1]

Everyone who thinks null crates used with cargo mining and science cooperation is balanced is wrong.

>science
>cooperating
A Y Y L M A O

[kevinz000]

Everyone who thinks null crates used with cargo mining and science cooperation is balanced is wrong.

>science
>cooperating
A Y Y L M A O

find me one science team that is
1. Not a bunch of incompetent monkies
2. Will refuse antag gear

[Anonmare]

Everyone who thinks null crates used with cargo mining and science cooperation is balanced is wrong.

>science
>cooperating
A Y Y L M A O

find me one science team that is
1. Not a bunch of incompetent monkies
2. Will refuse antag gear

I tend to cover for antagonists who surreptitiously give me antag gear to deconstruct and in return I let them in and walk away from the console to 'go on break' for 5 minutes

[AnonymousNow]

Well, what is the best way to rebalance this feature of the game, if it is such a problem?

It's recently been buffed, which is around about the time when the first complaints appeared regarding it; before then, it was never a problem, as far as I was aware (I didn't encounter a single complaint). It was only recently that I discovered that there are people who don't like it, starting with Goof's various memepulls.

Logic dictates that this change, this buff, is the first port of call in returning it to normal operational parameters; this is a popular choice amongst the general consensus of keeping the crate in the game, though not as popular as people who currently believe that the crate has no issues worth changing.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Well, what is the best way to rebalance this feature of the game, if it is such a problem?

It's recently been buffed, which is around about the time when the first complaints appeared regarding it; before then, it was never a problem, as far as I was aware (I didn't encounter a single complaint). It was only recently that I discovered that there are people who don't like it, starting with Goof's various memepulls.

Logic dictates that this change, this buff, is the first port of call in returning it to normal operational parameters; this is a popular choice amongst the general consensus of keeping the crate in the game, though not as popular as people who currently believe that the crate has no issues worth changing.

What you're referring to is people hating it ingame, usually not vocal groups of server only players never grace github/forums to report bugs and only sort of recently have we got a bug tracker, eitherway that buff has caused a overspill of vocal rage.

Your last few sentences are unsubstantiated because you've mistook there being no blatent evidence of players disliking it just because they didn't say anything, for no evidence absolute to defend it.

[AnonymousNow]

-

What you're referring to is people hating it ingame, usually not vocal groups of server only players never grace github/forums to report bugs and only sort of recently have we got a bug tracker, eitherway that buff has caused a overspill of vocal rage.

Your last few sentences are unsubstantiated because you've mistook there being no blatent evidence of players disliking it just because they didn't say anything, for no evidence absolute to defend it.

What you seem to be suggesting is that there's a group of people who've hated it for a long time, but most of them haven't said anything about it because they're not the kind of people to say such things, and that they've now chosen to make their feelings known at this point in time.

That seems as though it'd be very hard to prove. The most likely scenario by far is that people are feeling enraged by this buff in particular, since that's what's causing these disturbances that I've yet to encounter.

[BeeSting12]

I have never heard null crates complained about ingame. its almost as if a group of people who only browse the forums are whining about it.

[calzilla1]

Can someone post the null crate buff PR?

[Cobby]

The problem arised when it went from being a set of items to a wildcard syndicate crate that could have just about everything from the uplink

[ShadowDimentio]

Just change it to give you a traitor bundle.

[calzilla1]

Just change it to give you a traitor bundle.

This TBH

[Not-Dorsidarf]

just unbuff it and smack goofball or whoever was dumb enough to buff

[Cobby]

It was prob ma44 lol

[kevinz000]

It was prob ma44 lol

its always ma44