64x64

John_Oxford · Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:03 pm

could someone who's versed in the code explain to me how it could slightly be possible for us to change some aspects of the game into 64x64 or if we had to redo the entire game in it in order to make that so.

kevinz000 · Post by **kevinz000** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:14 am #317434

Ask goofball he tried.

danno · Post by **danno** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:28 am #317439

I'd heard that it wasn't feasible but I'm unsure
If you go dive for the 64x64 thread Wjohn or whoever made in this forum you might find answers.

Remie Richards · Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:01 am

It's more feasible than it's ever been.
But we're not sure if we should even go that route at all.

TheColdTurtle · Mon Jul 17, 2017 3:48 pm

What makes it more feasible now compared to one or two years ago?

Remie Richards · Mon Jul 17, 2017 5:38 pm

Fixes to byond that mean the map editor actually works with 64x64 without crapping itself?
Fixes to byond that mean a project using 64x64 sprites doesn't take 4x as long to compile for literally no reason?

Take your pick.

John_Oxford · Post by **John_Oxford** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 6:31 pm #317669

It'd make the game look great.

What's the feasibility of having a mix of 64x64 and 32x32 sprites at the same time, or even having different modes for players with lower end computers. Mainly though because of the large amount of time a full resprite of the game is going to take.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:10 pm #317677

you can get away with non-animated player sprites at 32x32, less so at 64x64 with the jump in detail

that's the biggest problem imo, unlikely to be resolved without using screencaps of 3d models turned into sprites and to be quite honest at that point we may as well turn ss13 into a grid-based pseudo 3d ish game

Remie Richards · Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:27 pm

John_Oxford wrote:It'd make the game look great.

What's the feasibility of having a mix of 64x64 and 32x32 sprites at the same time, or even having different modes for players with lower end computers. Mainly though because of the large amount of time a full resprite of the game is going to take.

When /vg/ tried it, a tool was used to upscale all art from 32x32 to 64x64, the plan being to slowly replace those auto64 sprites with hand crafted ones.
Essentially the game would look no different, but artists would have 4x the canvas to work with.

John_Oxford · Post by **John_Oxford** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:17 pm #317692

Would it be difficult to either port or do exactly what they did and make everything automatically in 64x64 and then encourage spriters to start respriting everything in the game into 64x64.

Of course, auto64'd sprites wouldn't look any different, but overtime it would give more working room for spriters and over time give the game more detail when it comes to artwork.

Is it desired by anyone in the codebase to ever make the switch to 64x64

Remie Richards · Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:21 pm

the tool is publicly available, both the library backend they used AND /vg/'s actual tool.
I don't know, some I suppose but I personally enjoy the 32x32 art style, it's cute where 64x64 would get a bit too detailed and lose it's cuteness imho.

danno · Post by **danno** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:48 pm #317743

There's pros and cons to both, as per usual
higher fidelity is cool but it can be discouraging for people as well

Post by **lumipharon** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:17 pm #317753

Some sprites are already quite different in style from the majority of sprites (stuff like alien shuttle/emergency shelter etc). They look GOOD, but also a little jarring in their stylistic differences.
Slowly changing over to dedicated 64x64 sprites would be no worse.

Has anyone got any images of 64x64 sprites? (I presume vg has done at least some by this point?)

danno · Post by **danno** » Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:25 pm #317757

I'd love to move to 64x64 and maybe get some human sprites that don't look so fucking bad but that's a lot of work
and if we're redoing the game in 64x64, it basically all has to happen at the same time or it will look really inconsistent and weird. Slowly changing is just going to annoy people
it's just so much work that it's probably not feasibly going to happen.

John_Oxford · Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:42 am

/vg/ underwent the task of slowly changing it because its the only thing that's feasible in terms of actually doing it, since no one is going to undertake the monumental task of redoing the entire game on their own time in their own art style.

If you make it so very common things (floors/walls/toolboxes/floortiles/windows/girders/signs/computers/vending machines/handcuffs/batons/security armor) are all in 64x64 it would give off the impression that everything that isn't already in 64x64 is the weird item, not the 64x64 items.

It would honestly blow my mind if someone was unironically against adding 64x64 on the sole premise that it makes everything "look weird"

danno · Post by **danno** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:46 am #317777

It's not that it looks weird, it's that it looks weird in contrast to the 32x32 stuff that it would most likely be mixed with because a 100% replacement of every single sprite in the game is just so unlikely

danno · Post by **danno** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:48 am #317778

also I got on /vg/ and it doesn't appear to be 64x64
what am I missing

John_Oxford · Post by **John_Oxford** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:24 am #317783

danno wrote:also I got on /vg/ and it doesn't appear to be 64x64
what am I missing

from what i understand it was reverted for the same reason some of the stuff we did was reverted, memory leaks, long compile times, ect

it would look weird in contrast to 32x32 sprites but accepting that and saying "hey its okay i can deal with everything looking different for a while while the entire game gets a artistic facelift" instead of those people saying "NO WE HAVE TO STAY IN 32x32 FUCK PROGRESS"

I wouldn't really be surprised if a few people came on the forums and did that, even a few making a pr about it.

danno · Post by **danno** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:34 am #317786

I bring to your attention the currently ongoing perspective shift.
A lot of people who should be going "hey its okay i can deal with everything looking different for a while while the entire game gets a artistic facelift" aren't.

Remie Richards · Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:58 am

Don't change humans.
I beg of you.

They're cute and I will kill you if you change them. (if we even go 64x64 at all, that is, there's not much love for it amongst maintainers)

Incomptinence · Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:11 am

The difference danno would be the "artistic" part on this renovation.

danno · Post by **danno** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:07 pm #317951

Remie Richards wrote:Don't change humans.
I beg of you.

They're cute and I will kill you if you change them. (if we even go 64x64 at all, that is, there's not much love for it amongst maintainers)

From the front, sure. But human sprites are so disproportional and weird and bad from the side, and female sprites are just nasty

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:25 pm #318027

Remie Richards wrote:Don't change humans.
I beg of you.

They're cute and I will kill you if you change them. (if we even go 64x64 at all, that is, there's not much love for it amongst maintainers)

at the very least if we 64x64 we have more room for shit like tattoos

danno · Post by **danno** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:34 pm #318030

64x64 would give enough space for practically anything would would ever want to do
but it isn't gonna happen without some psychopath putting the time in

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:35 pm #318031

danno wrote:64x64 would give enough space for practically anything would would ever want to do
but it isn't gonna happen without some psychopath putting the time in

we can do it in 5 minutes and a script + regex magic

John_Oxford · Tue Jul 18, 2017 10:53 pm

do i need to make it the new gunsmithing and pester everyone everywhere for the next three years and constantly shill it to get you to do it goof

or can you save countless dollars, hours, sweat, and blood all in hopes of tattoos

danno · Post by **danno** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:21 am #318073

iamgoofball wrote:
danno wrote:64x64 would give enough space for practically anything would would ever want to do
but it isn't gonna happen without some psychopath putting the time in
we can do it in 5 minutes and a script + regex magic

I'm talking about actual sprites, not just upscaling the 32x32 ones.

Tokiko2 · Post by **Tokiko2** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:37 am #318113

How does this work with turfs? Do you just somehow enlarge the 32x32 ones to be 64x64 and everything works as it did?

Remie Richards · Wed Jul 19, 2017 5:49 pm

icon size is a variable on the world.
eg: world.icon_size = 32 (is what we have now) but it can just as easily be world.icon_size = 64, world.icon_size = "32x64" etc.
All this controls is the default expected size of graphics, it's not a maximum or a minimum.

Nienhaus · Post by **Nienhaus** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:53 pm #318504

If someone sprites a good 64x64 human sprite then I will start respriting clothing for it.

Alipheese · Post by **Alipheese** » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:56 pm #318505

Nienhaus wrote:If someone sprites a good 64x64 human sprite then I will start respriting clothing for it.

Now we have to do 64x64

Post by **Armhulen** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:09 am #318507

Oh yeah, because female sprites worked out sooooooo well

John_Oxford · Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:57 am

make bigger tit and dick sprites and make them both greyscale so they work with any clothing, then lock them behind a 30 dollar donation

all money problems solved ever and we can finally afford to pay admins and get that sweet delicious

r e s p o n s i b i l i t y

Post by **Armhulen** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:08 am #318519

John_Oxford wrote:make bigger tit and dick sprites and make them both greyscale so they work with any clothing, then lock them behind a 30 dollar donation

all money problems solved ever and we can finally afford to pay admins and get that sweet delicious

r e s p o n s i b i l i t y

lifeweb: the post

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:39 am #318602

you better not give any of those to lizards

Remie Richards · Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:45 am

Armhulen wrote:Oh yeah, because female sprites worked out sooooooo well

They're still on their way.
Soon TM.

Post by **oranges** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:32 am #319642

has vg even made any native 64x64 sprites yet?

John_Oxford · Post by **John_Oxford** » Mon Jul 24, 2017 3:33 am #319645

they did a long time ago then it caused errors like memory leaks so they reverted back to 32x32 only