Little things you learned that are game changing

[tacolizard]

Bottom post of the previous page:

how do you get 2000 kpa into a tank?

[Anonmare]

Find some way to heat the gas in the tank after it's in, like placing ignited plasma and oxygen into the tank.

Of course, tanks have a rupture point

[ManyBones]

Yep, you get some freon at about 5000 K and later you fill the rest of the tank with freon at 10000. You don't want to get the pressure above 3000

[CPTANT]

I tested this to see if it works conceptually and it does.



However this test was with 1000Kpa 6736 °C freon and -191°C 88% plasma and 12% oxygen.

I am having trouble getting 2000Kpa in a tank. If I add hot freon to colder freon in a tank it just instantly levels out the temperature and it doesn't go above 1000Kpa

Only thing I can think of is indeed adding burnmix at >100 °C to the tank

[CPTANT]

This kinda changes my understanding of the explosion code.

I always thought you needed to have cold oxygen. But do you actually only need lots of moles of oxygen?

[Grazyn]

Yes you need lots of moles of oxygen (and plasma), and supercooling the gas is the easiest way to cram all those moles in a small tank. Hot gas -> few moles.

Freon bombs are kinda old anyway, someone taught me how to make them like 2 months ago, it was supposed to be a secret but I guess the cat is out of the bag now. You don't actually need 2000 kpa of hot freon if you manage to superheat it, but you can't use the heat transfer thingy because of its high heat capacity, best way is to just mix a very small amount of freon inside a regular burn mix canister, you let it heat to 90k °C or something and then filter out the superheated freon. A 1013 kpa tank of 60k °C freon linked to a supercooled plasma /o2 mix will be enough to erase lavaland.

[ManyBones]

Yes you need lots of moles of oxygen (and plasma), and supercooling the gas is the easiest way to cram all those moles in a small tank. Hot gas -> few moles.

Freon bombs are kinda old anyway, someone taught me how to make them like 2 months ago, it was supposed to be a secret but I guess the cat is out of the bag now. You don't actually need 2000 kpa of hot freon if you manage to superheat it, but you can't use the heat transfer thingy because of its high heat capacity, best way is to just mix a very small amount of freon inside a regular burn mix canister, you let it heat to 90k °C or something and then filter out the superheated freon. A 1013 kpa tank of 60k °C freon linked to a supercooled plasma /o2 mix will be enough to erase lavaland.

The thing its the hotter the freon the more volume it occupies, that results in less moles in the tank. Heating the freon beyond 6.000K does not provide a better explosion. And strange, I thought I was the discoverer of this method

I tested this to see if it works conceptually and it does.



However this test was with 1000Kpa 6736 °C freon and -191°C 88% plasma and 12% oxygen.

I am having trouble getting 2000Kpa in a tank. If I add hot freon to colder freon in a tank it just instantly levels out the temperature and it doesn't go above 1000Kpa

Only thing I can think of is indeed adding burnmix at >100 °C to the tank

Maybe its the opposite, colder freon to a tank with hot freon, but it should work, i have done it many times. And you should remove the bombcap, that would be a 25/50/100 explosion at least

[Grazyn]

Theoretical should show the actual radius even with the bomb cap on.

[bunny232]

The Syndi listening outpost(the one in space, not the ruskie dj place) has a safe under the door south from where the op spawns.
It makes you happy and sad (stechkin and odd report)((odd report is depressing))

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Theoretical should show the actual radius even with the bomb cap on.

Just posting to confirm that the theoretical setting on the Tachyometer is explicitly to measure what your bomb would have been sans bombcap

[CPTANT]

I am still having trouble getting 2000KPa freon into a tank.

The method of mixing hot and cold freon doesn't seem to work at all for me, regardless of the order.

Adding burnmix is impractical as the specific heat of Freon is so high that you barely get any temperature increase at all, unless you throw out a lot of freon. But practically it means freon is better at adding heat than the burnmix so there isnt really a point.

[Grazyn]

I am still having trouble getting 2000KPa freon into a tank.

The method of mixing hot and cold freon doesn't seem to work at all for me, regardless of the order.

Adding burnmix is impractical as the specific heat of Freon is so high that you barely get any temperature increase at all, unless you throw out a lot of freon. But practically it means freon is better at adding heat than the burnmix so there isnt really a point.

As I said before, 2000 kPa is overkill and not needed for z-level-wide explosions. As long as you have pure superheated freon in one tank (someone said that >6000 °C are enough) and a supercooled mix of o2 and plasma in the other, you're good with just 1013 kPa of both. Maybe play around with the o2/plasma mix if you already have the hot freon.

[CPTANT]

I am still having trouble getting 2000KPa freon into a tank.

The method of mixing hot and cold freon doesn't seem to work at all for me, regardless of the order.

Adding burnmix is impractical as the specific heat of Freon is so high that you barely get any temperature increase at all, unless you throw out a lot of freon. But practically it means freon is better at adding heat than the burnmix so there isnt really a point.

As I said before, 2000 kPa is overkill and not needed for z-level-wide explosions. As long as you have pure superheated freon in one tank (someone said that >6000 °C are enough) and a supercooled mix of o2 and plasma in the other, you're good with just 1013 kPa of both. Maybe play around with the o2/plasma mix if you already have the hot freon.

I dont exactly call 10/21/42 a z-level wide explosion.

I hacked in a 5000C 2500KPa freon tank and the explosion went to 21/42/84 with 4K 88%oxygen/12%plasma

Without 2KPa freon cooling down the burnmix to 4K actually produces a smaller explosion.

[Grazyn]

Burnmix may be too cold. I know that even regular maxcaps don't work if you cool down the oxygen too much. Try 13K instead, 90% o2 and 10% plasma, and hotter freon, even with a lower pressure.

[CPTANT]

Burnmix may be too cold. I know that even regular maxcaps don't work if you cool down the oxygen too much. Try 13K instead, 90% o2 and 10% plasma, and hotter freon, even with a lower pressure.

Hotter freon just gives you less overall heat in the tank. Anyway burnmix at 13K does the trick indeed.

[Anonmare]

You only need stabilising agent for the initial reaction, it's safe to remove once you're ready.

Also Napalm/CL3/Phlogiston foam grenades are terrifying

[CPTANT]

You only need stabilising agent for the initial reaction, it's safe to remove once you're ready.

Also Napalm/CL3/Phlogiston foam grenades are terrifying

Its pretty overkill, I find it better to just use CL3 and some lube so people can't escape.

[Anonmare]

I made those grenades and tested them out on some dummy humans.

They died in ~2 seconds, plus they couldn't escape since foam is slippery. Only way you could survive is with full fire protection, plus the heat was so intense it melts the floor of entire hallways which makes it even harder to escape. The best part is that they're not all that hard to make, the most difficult bit would be getting bluespace beakers - put enough foam in those and you could melt half of the central hallway and everyone in it.

It's better to make your CL3 all at once though, and don't put more chlorine and fluorine in the beakers immediately after making some CL3 as the residual heat will make them react immediately and you'll get set alight.

[ManyBones]

Burnmix may be too cold. I know that even regular maxcaps don't work if you cool down the oxygen too much. Try 13K instead, 90% o2 and 10% plasma, and hotter freon, even with a lower pressure.

What this guy said. Don't cool the burn mix too much or plasma won't reach his ideal burning temperature, 1643 K. 13 K is good

[Anonmare]

You can disarm a chemical grenade being thrown at you with a pair of wirecutters, then use a wrench to remove the payload

[DemonFiren]

If you're really good you can do it while the grenade is in flight.

Another reason to get cooking.

[Anonmare]

If you're really good you can do it while the grenade is in flight.

Another reason to get cooking.

You're better off screwdrivering the grenade to set it to 3 seconds. Most people don't have reactions that fast.

[DemonFiren]

If you're really good you can do it while the grenade is in flight.

Another reason to get cooking.

You're better off screwdrivering the grenade to set it to 3 seconds. Most people don't have reactions that fast.

the only thing that protects against gitting gud is gitting gudder

[Anonmare]

Synapatazine reduces the length of stuns, knockdowns and knockouts.

[Anonmare]

And the wiki says there is no OD but it's "Mildly toxic"

Clearly for my traitoring I need to grab something that takes three basic chems and probably only needs a charcoal pill on the side or antitoxin in 30u amounts if you want a quick recipe.


How dramatic is the get up time?

Equal to epinephrine. You could probably stack your epi-pen+synapatazine+nicotine for anti-stun that's only a little worse than traitor stimulants.

[DiamondSentinel]

If you promise to give an assistant a bomb or a gun, they'll be a test subject for literally anything. Like testing different lethal injections

[MimicFaux]

Fully augmenting a person renders them storm proof on lavaland. No more waiting on dark blue slimes, or hoping for tendril hardsuits.

[Anonmare]

Equal to epinephrine. You could probably stack your epi-pen+synapatazine+nicotine for anti-stun that's only a little worse than traitor stimulants.

Argh. It requires so many steps. I think I'd just get sick of trying to break into/job swap to chemistry to spend 5-10 minutes making chemicals I might need just to die to an explosion, a 'ling or a revolver. Especially when time is usually an important currency to spend as a traitor on anything but well practised steps or entirely on experimentation.

I guess I just don't want to do it because of the OOC requirement of reading the wiki to do anything fun with chemicals.


It was nice to see epinephrine has an overdose on it though... although I'm trying to remember if the chemistry dispenser available to the crew is stocked with the stuff by default and if it's useful outside of obviously sticking too many needles into a dying patient. Do overdose effects wear off once you go under the threshold?

Actually synapatazine's so easy to make you could probably make a bunch in less than a minute, the biggest downside to it is its toxicity so it's best to have some antitoxin to purge it.

Epinephrine has a few uses, it reduces stun timers, increases holodamage regeneration and helps you recover from being knocked out faster, as well as recovering brute/burn/tox damage if you're in crit and prevents a patient from suffering from more than 35 oxy damage while in crit. It's complicated to make, though a competent chemist will have usually have a bunch of the compounds used to make it on standby since diethylamine, acetone and phenol are used in a lot of recipes.

As for overdoses, you need to purge the chemical completely in order to stop the effects.



Also, here's another oft overlooked tip. Morphine is completely harmless as long as you have less than 11u in your system and has the added bonus of letting you ignore slowdown. If things look bad, keep a pill with a small amount on you so that you can zip away regardless of your damage level. If you don't believe me, I have the proof in the pudding:

Code: Select all

/datum/reagent/medicine/morphine/on_mob_life(mob/living/M)
	M.status_flags |= IGNORESLOWDOWN
	switch(current_cycle)
		if(11)
			to_chat(M, "<span class='warning'>You start to feel tired...</span>" )
		if(12 to 24)
			M.drowsyness += 1
		if(24 to INFINITY)
			M.Sleeping(40, 0)
			. = 1
..()

[Remie Richards]

It's not quite so simple.
It depends on your metabolism_efficiency, and the metabolization_rate of the reagent.

By default, 1 current_cycle is worth metabolization_rate * M.metabolism_efficiency (for normal living mobs, like monkeys and dogs, this is metabolization_rate * 1), for humans it starts at 1 but depends on if you're fat/well fed and satiated, eg:

Well satiated + full = 1.25 met efficiency
If you're starving, its 0.8
And if you're fat it's always going to be 1, regardless of satiation or well fed-ness

However, morphine is a medicine, and medicine's current_cycle is metabolization_rate / M.metabolism_efficiency (division, where as standard is multiplication, medicine does this so it stays inside you for longer)
Moprhine metabolises at 0.5 * REAGENTS_METABOLISM (which is 0.5 * 0.4, or 0.2)

Which means 1 current_cycle of morphine, if you're "normal" or "fat" is only going to remove 0.2u of Morphine
Bad effects kick in at 12, which is only going to be 2.4u removed, the worst effects start at 24, which would be 4.8u removed.

Meaning the highest you can have to avoid any bad effects, is 2.3u, and to only avoid falling asleep, 4.7u. Less than 11u, like you say (lets go with 10, as it's an easy number to get), would take you to a current_cycle of 50! well into sleep territory, you'll be there a while.

tl;dr current_cycle doesn't match the amount of reagents removed 1:1 it varies per reagent and per mob and you need to take this into account when dealing with reagent effects.

[Anonmare]

I must have misread it then.

Still,I think I'd prefer it if morphine knockout was based on threshold and not how long it's been in your system so that morphine pills could serve a purpose. As far as I'm aware of, it's the only thing chem let's you IGNORE_SLOWDOWN.

Ephedrine, changeling adrenaline and traitor stimulants I know make you GOTTAGOFAST (and GOTTAGOREALLYFAST for stimulants and adrenaline) but that still has to take slowdown into account and I was actually planning on making myself chem implants with 5u of crank, 5u of meth, 10u of ephedrine, 10u of epinephrine, 5u of synaptazine and 5u of morphine to get anti-stun implants on the same level as traitor adrenals.

I know bathsalts are the best anti-stun but I don't like them

[Anonmare]

Facid smoke grenades are still quite powerful, able to crit most people after a few seconds of exposure. Acid is most effective when it's in smoke form but it is almost completely ineffective against targets wearing hardsuits which are acid immune.

It also can disfigure people's faces and make you appear as an unknown, you can splash it on yourself via harm intent and clicking your sprite, just make sure you have some meds on standby and to make sure to strip ahead of time to avoid destroying your clothes.

[MimicFaux]

The wizard spell spacetime distortion now also scrambles nearby terrain, making comboing it with arc lightning (one of the few spells that ignored its effects much less feasible.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Unless i misunderstood and got really lucky, upgrading the experimentor with better parts creates better tech value in strange objects, and since strange objects can be kept around and run through the experimentor to 'discover' multiple times. Generically all roundstart strange objects will after being "discovered" and spat out with their true function have 1 level 3 trait on deconstruction, I haven't done any correlation science but a upgraded machine can deliver tech 5 strange objects instead.

Also frequently the void battery seems to be patched out as near consistently irradiating batteries (with a maxed out experimentor) turns them frequently into shitty ones, the rest of the interactions are meaningless and will probably kill you and when they don't malfunction or fail it doesn't actually do anything, its more of a preclude to a malfunction, especially beware of the burn function for spitting out fireballs that crit you.

---

Why do we support this attempted suicide by fireball machine again? Least that first tip on increasing parts for better strange object levels is useful.

[Alipheese]

You can activate the medical scanner to set it to scan chemicals...

[TribeOfBeavers]

You can activate the medical scanner to set it to scan chemicals...

It tells you if someone is ODing as well!

[AnonymousNow]

You can activate the medical scanner to set it to scan chemicals...

It tells you if someone is ODing as well!

It's a simple toggle, and really useful for the medic on the go, so use it often if something doesn't feel right. CMO approved.

[FantasticFwoosh]

The PDA medical scan will tell you about disease & organ issues (pancreatitis etc) with relevant detail to the stage it is at, and the cure for said disease.

Oh and a time of death for all those nosey doctors who prefer to search for clues to a crime by themselves.

[MimicFaux]

Time of death is useful to know if they are in defib range when you walk in and there is just a body left outside of genetics.

[TribeOfBeavers]

Time of death is useful to know if they are in defib range when you walk in and there is just a body left outside of genetics.

Doesn't it already tell you in bright red text if someone can be defibbed though?

[DiamondSentinel]

Time of death is useful to know if they are in defib range when you walk in and there is just a body left outside of genetics.

Doesn't it already tell you in bright red text if someone can be defibbed though?

Only after the 15-20 second defib time

[MimicFaux]

Unless you're using the CMO's belt defib, you'll be swapping out your backpack for the defib, setting up to defib them, maybe even taking time to remove a hard suit. And that's if you already have one on hand. People wearing augments, implants, or genetic powers, will all appreciate being defibbed over cloned. And those who are well past that point, will appreciate being taken directly into clothing as opposed to waiting around and watching you try and defib them first.

Knowing the time of death, can make you look competent and efficient.

[Tokiko2]

I went through the code of security barriers and found a rather interesting feature.

They aren't just lockable, dragable roadblocks that you put into doorways when someone emags them open. They are cover. And not the "I can stand behind this and then quickly step out, shoot and step behind it again." kind of cover. No, it turns out that they have code to always let bullets through that have been fired by someone adjacent to them. So you can fire outside, but the enemy can't really hit you, atleast most of the time. Sandbags do the same thing, though at a worse blocking rate.

It also works with the wooden barricade which is probably the most useful for this. It doesn't have the best cover rate, but it blocks movement, doesn't explode when broken and can be easily mass produced by anyone with access to the garden.

[MimicFaux]

We CM now.

[Remie Richards]

We CM now.

we had this before CM existed.

[CPTANT]

Security barriers have been that way for ages.

IIRC sandbags act the same way.

[Remie Richards]

They do, and they said as such.

[DiamondSentinel]

Unless you're using the CMO's belt defib, you'll be swapping out your backpack for the defib, setting up to defib them, maybe even taking time to remove a hard suit. And that's if you already have one on hand. People wearing augments, implants, or genetic powers, will all appreciate being defibbed over cloned. And those who are well past that point, will appreciate being taken directly into clothing as opposed to waiting around and watching you try and defib them first.

Knowing the time of death, can make you look competent and efficient.

Don't get me wrong. I'm definitely one of the people with implants, and definitely appreciate being defibbed over cloned. The problem is that 9 times out of 10, if I'm dead, there's not a doctor in sight to defib me.

[Togopal]

Dont know if this was said before but you can pin photos/papers to airlocks
Also you can put lethal injection syringes into syringe guns (50u of chloral hydrate in a syringe)

[XDTM]

Unless you're using the CMO's belt defib, you'll be swapping out your backpack for the defib, setting up to defib them, maybe even taking time to remove a hard suit. And that's if you already have one on hand. People wearing augments, implants, or genetic powers, will all appreciate being defibbed over cloned. And those who are well past that point, will appreciate being taken directly into clothing as opposed to waiting around and watching you try and defib them first.

Knowing the time of death, can make you look competent and efficient.

Don't get me wrong. I'm definitely one of the people with implants, and definitely appreciate being defibbed over cloned. The problem is that 9 times out of 10, if I'm dead, there's not a doctor in sight to defib me.

When will synthflesh -> strange reagent become meta?

[FantasticFwoosh]

Thats why it got removed from being applicable on dead bodies.

Augments work well though in its place for repairing damage and allowing bodies to be repaired even if they are hideous bloody mess.

[XDTM]

Thats why it got removed from being applicable on dead bodies.

Augments work well though in its place for repairing damage and allowing bodies to be repaired even if they are hideous bloody mess.

Fun fact: Synthflesh now works again on dead bodies (styptic and silver sulf still don't). Another method is implanting, like you said, and there's also the option of mech medbeams or the secret surgery technique.