[Armhulenn] diamondsentinel - temp ban

[DiamondSentinel]

• Byond account and character name: DiamondSentinel (Arlanhe Darkweaver)
• Banning admin: Armhulenn
• Ban type (What are you banned from?): Server
• Ban reason and length: Killed a CMO based on what others said, the CMO joined very recently and didn't even know what was going on. Overpurge! - Length: 1 day
• Time ban was placed (including time zone): 2256
• Server you were playing when banned (Sybil or Bagil): Sybil
• Your side of the story: So at the beginning of the game, I was captain, and named the station "PURGE THE HERETICS". Then some admin sent me a message from centcom, and let me trade the captain's hardsuit in for a Champion's Armor (or whatever it's called) and a Blessed Chainsword. So, I went with the whole Warhammer 40k theme and started purging heretics (which were exclusively valid people). I made an AI that was also to purge the heretics and their heresy. During this time, as far as I know, the only 2 non-traitors who were heretics and purged were some security officer who tried to kill me, and the CMO, who I was banned for. I killed the CMO for 2 reasons: 1. Someone said that the CMO was killing people in medbay. I didn't know that at that time, we didn't have a CMO apparently. 2. The CMO cloned the HoP after I explicitly announced to the station not to because they were a traitor/heretic. So the CMO comes on here (missed this message because it was likely while the HoP was trying to kill me), and I see them. I proceed to attack and kill them, and my security team helps me. Arm asks me about this, and I explain that I had no idea people were lying, and that I was sorry that it had happened. After this, Arm said "It's a day for unjustified killing. As per usual", and then about 5 minutes later, during which there was no communication, he banned me.
• Why you think you should be unbanned: This whole theme that I was doing (a) Seemed blessed by the admins, because they gave me equipment to go along with it, and (b) was really just killing entirely valid people, up until this point. Furthermore, I killed the CMO off of someone else's lie and because they were valid on their own, so I'm still not sure why I was banned in the first place for that. It's no different than if a traitor lies to security to get someone jailed.

[Armhulen]

You killed some doctor for cloning the Hop. That's whatever. I'm about the CMO, which you killed because "they killed four people"

[Steelpoint]

You do know the "CMO" you murdered was in fact just a Medical Doctor? I was that Medical Doctor.

I recently joined and went straight to medbay, in there I found a ton of dead people needing to be cloned, as well as more people being brought in. In between me fighting assistants trying to loot shit and the medbay lacking air I was very focused on my job. Eventually I got around to cloning the HoP, after the AI shock bolted the medbay and tried to kill me. After I cloned the HoP you wordlessly charge in, gun me down and kill me with your sword.

You deserved the ban as you were unilaterally murdering half the crew for no reason whatsoever, I honeslty think you need a longer ban but that's not my decision.

[linksword916]

made an account just for this

All I did was stun you and cuff you so I could grab your ID and call the shuttle, so you kill me and cut my head off. 10/10 deserved it

[DiamondSentinel]

You killed some doctor for cloning the Hop. That's whatever. I'm about the CMO, which you killed because "they killed four people"

No, I killed the CMO for cloning the HoP. The AI said that the CMO was the one who cloned the HoP. So I killed the CMO.

[Armhulen]

Also, the cmo latejoined and had no clue what was going on. All they knew was that you killed their doctor

[DiamondSentinel]

Also, the cmo latejoined and had no clue what was going on. All they knew was that you killed their doctor

I had only acted on what information I had, and when I realized that I made a mistake, I (a) apologized immediately, and (b) called the shuttle so the round would be over and no more purging.

[Steelpoint]

>trying to disown your actions by thinking calling evac absolves you.

You're not a inquisitor so you can't claim Imperial immunity in this.

You're actions turned Security into the literary Inquisition as they began to murder anyone they perceived to be heretics, the AI followed suit and had it not been for me resetting the AI I am 100% confident the AI would've flooded plasma in the escape hallway, and Security were on the verge of just killing everyone under the perception of stopping the heretics from escaping.

You personally killed anyone who slighted you and offered no mercy or even a chance to talk to the victim. Just murder and leave them to their fate even if they literally did nothing.

Running in, balls to the wall, and killing people who just arrived five minutes prior and do not understand what is going on, and you expect them to have full knowledge of the rounds events, is absolutely shitty behaviour on your part.

There is a difference between some fun roleplay versus taking the role the admins gave you and turning into Space Hitler.

[Armhulen]

I gave you a suit and a weapon for your thing, I didn't realize that was my permission for you to genocide the station

[DiamondSentinel]

>trying to disown your actions by thinking calling evac absolves you.

You're not a inquisitor so you can't claim Imperial immunity in this.

You're actions turned Security into the literary Inquisition as they began to murder anyone they perceived to be heretics, the AI followed suit and had it not been for me resetting the AI I am 100% confident the AI would've flooded plasma in the escape hallway, and Security were on the verge of just killing everyone under the perception of stopping the heretics from escaping.

You personally killed anyone who slighted you and offered no mercy or even a chance to talk to the victim. Just murder and leave them to their fate even if they literally did nothing.

Running in, balls to the wall, and killing people who just arrived five minutes prior and do not understand what is going on, and you expect them to have full knowledge of the rounds events, is absolutely shitty behaviour on your part.

There is a difference between some fun roleplay versus taking the role the admins gave you and turning into Space Hitler.

Alright. Let's take this one step at a time.

I did not tell Security they could kill whoever they wanted. I only told them to kill those who were valid. Same with the AI. The AI was under strict laws to only kill anyone who I explicitely said was nonhuman. No different from many captains, except that I used my power.

I did not kill anyone who slighted me. Our brig was blown up so we couldn't really arrest people and put them in the brig, so martial law comes into effect. I didn't kill any of the 3 people who grabbed me and cuffed me aside from the security officer who had actually attacked me.

PEdit: I didn't genocide the station, Arm. I don't know how on earth so many people died, but it was not at my hands. Not by a long shot. I know of about 7 people who died as a result of me. 2 of them were the doctors here, 1 was the aforementioned security officer, and the last 4 were actual traitors or just graytides who security was actually in the process of tracking down

[Steelpoint]

Then why did you murder me the MD in the cloning area?

You may have bitched about not cloning the HoP but I likely was not around for it.

From my perspective you just bolted in, shot me and then killed me with your chain sword for no discernable reason.

As far as I could see after I died you were willingly allowing security, the AI and yourself to just kill and attack at will.

[DiamondSentinel]

Then why did you murder me the MD in the cloning area?

You may have bitched about not cloning the HoP but I likely was not around for it.

From my perspective you just bolted in, shot me and then killed me with your chain sword for no discernable reason.

As far as I could see after I died you were willingly allowing security, the AI and yourself to just kill and attack at will.

In command chat, the AI had just said that the HoP was cloned. I know you can't see that, but that was why I killed you.

As for the late-game, the 2 people that I was there for the killing of were the methed-out assistant who was stealing weapons and tripping and cuffing people, and the CMO. Which is currently our discussion.

Steel, I'm not saying that I was entirely in the right here, but you are crudely misrepresenting the entire situation, and completely ignoring any reparations I attempted to make for the situation. I couldn't clone the CMO and yourself once Arm told me that the people were lying/wrong because that's ooc ic. But I called the shuttle to end the round and thus stop anything from happening further.

[Armhulen]

Reparations don't fix the fact that you killed the CMO unfairly, I don't think i'm going to lift this

[oranges]

I gave you a suit and a weapon for your thing, I didn't realize that was my permission for you to genocide the station

You probably should have known better than that

[Armhulen]

I gave you a suit and a weapon for your thing, I didn't realize that was my permission for you to genocide the station

You probably should have known better than that

do not delete this post

[DiamondSentinel]

Reparations don't fix the fact that you killed the CMO unfairly, I don't think i'm going to lift this

But I killed them based on faulty information. It's not like I said "Hmm, I'm going to just kill the CMO today. It's just that kind of day."

[feem]

Why do you think killing them because they cloned someone was a good idea?

Why not just kill the person they cloned and ask them why they cloned them?

Why not arrest them instead of kill them outright?

Why are you saying "it's okay because the AI told me to in command channel" like this is relevant when you didn't notice that a member of your crew had just arrived via the common channel before killing them on the basis that they were doing something in contravention of something they couldn't have known had happened?

Why do you think you're immune to responsibility for your actions as a non-antag on account of someone giving you an outfit?

[DiamondSentinel]

Why do you think killing them because they cloned someone was a good idea?

Why not just kill the person they cloned and ask them why they cloned them?

Why not arrest them instead of kill them outright?

Why are you saying "it's okay because the AI told me to in command channel" like this is relevant when you didn't notice that a member of your crew had just arrived via the common channel before killing them on the basis that they were doing something in contravention of something they couldn't have known had happened?

Why do you think you're immune to responsibility for your actions as a non-antag on account of someone giving you an outfit?

1. Because the person was a known traitor, which I had announced to the station as a whole the entire time.

2. I did kill the person they cloned, and at that point, the station was under full martial law because 3 bombs had gone off, destroying cargo, brig, and part of medbay/science/evac hallway.

3. The brig was a smoking crater and the bridge was broken into. There was no place to arrest them to.

4. it wasn't like they had just arrived. They had arrived some time prior, well before I had given the warning about the HoP being completely rogue and not to clone them.

5. I'm not saying I'm immune to the consequences, but the consequences are not befitting the crime. I was banned for the unjust killing of 2 people, both as a result of the same action and misinformation. This happens most games, as Arm had pointed out. It's not like my actions were grossly unjust. It was a normal happening on the server.

[linksword916]

>
I didn't kill any of the 3 people who grabbed me and cuffed me aside from the security officer who had actually attacked me.

Yknow, except for me, the Blue assistant. Who you also cut my head off and put it on the table.

[DiamondSentinel]

>
I didn't kill any of the 3 people who grabbed me and cuffed me aside from the security officer who had actually attacked me.

Yknow, except for me, the Blue assistant. Who you also cut my head off and put it on the table.

You mean the one who was methed out, stealing weapons from everyone in sight and proceeded to try and shoot me with them? Don't even fucking try to pull that shit. I'm attempting to discuss the actual issues here, not some butthurt grayshit who gets mad whenever people are done dealing with their shit.

[feem]

The questions I asked are all really trying to ask the same question: Do you honestly feel that your actions, if viewed from outside your [empowered] position, would be viewed as being sane, rational, and in keeping with what other players want of their captains?

Captain is a shitty role, but it's also one with a lot of responsibilities. Captain shouldn't be about 'winning' -- in some ways it's about toeing the line between being a dick and keeping order on the station, though a different kind of order and in a different way than, say, the HoS would accommodate (though many people don't play it that way).

A few people have shown up in this thread to say that they felt like you violated Rule 1 by going out of your way to be a bloodthirsty captain, and while you're correct that this happens frequently, that isn't justification for its occurrence -- and people get a lot of bans.

It's a really bad idea to kill someone for doing their job (i.e. cloning them), as a captain. It's a much better idea to correct their behavior. If you'd tased or disabled them, I don't think we'd be here. If you hadn't made a collection of heads made up of anyone who vaguely tided you, I don't think we'd be here.

That having been said, I understand what you're saying when you say that you took action to stop someone who was trying to bring a traitor back into the round. I just think that you might have gone overboard by absorbing yourself and the people around you into your INQUISITION microevent and that your trigger finger might have been a little more itchy than the situation would have warranted if you hadn't started the round in an escalated state.

[Cobby]

Reparations don't fix the fact that you killed the CMO unfairly, I don't think i'm going to lift this

But I killed them based on faulty information. It's not like I said "Hmm, I'm going to just kill the CMO today. It's just that kind of day."

After sleeping on this I'm going to unban you from the game and captain ban you for 6 days .

I can understand that you killed the CMO due to misinformation by what you'd normally assume is a trusted source [the ai], especially after you more/less subverted it. I'll give Steelepoint something for the troubles since he lost his round due to an admin-related issue and since you thought that you couldn't fix your mess [which for future reference you both can and should]. This is just one of those things that happens in the moment and I don't think you should have been banned for this necessarily. Misinformation is the cause of many deaths, and if we start banning for it we'd have the population of people who only powergamed to avoid getting banned for more/less NOT powergaming. That or the population of the Linux test server, neither of which I think anyone wants. The only reason i'm sorta overturning this actually is because I don't want people to get the idea that they may be banned for killing someone who was framed, which I think the current ban is showing as opposed to the actual bulk of what people are finding wrong.

However, the entire purge heretics meme was dumb. Had you not been doing this gilded turbohitler meme, you would have either 1) been a lot more passive regarding the CMO and perhaps avoided the conflict altogether/ resolved it more humanely or 2) thought to at least dispose of the hop body in some form instead of "Ah ah ah, don't clone the body or I get to kill you *wink wink*" . It seems like the day ban was suppose to cover this anyways from this appeal although it does not directly state this in the formal ban reason, so hopefully this will be a more direct "here's what you did wrong" punishment that you can look at and figure out what exactly you can improve on.

Before anyone looks into this and tries to find some shining light on the matter, Yes I was a part of this round. The only incident I had regarding the captain was after this one was banned and the other came in, I think I tried to give the new one a healing disease or something. If I was a part of the shenanigans I wouldn't resolve this thread.

If there was someone who got killed for even less of a reason [looking at you linksword], please explain properly on this thread so diamond can contest it. If it's a genuine, I'll tack on a day gameban for each actual random/improperly escalated killing. Otherwise, I think this is resolved unless someone wants to contend my decision.

In short: I'm dropping the game ban since I think the killing wasn't entirely your fault and don't want people to get the wrong idea of WHY you were actually banned, but this could have been avoided had you not chosen the dumb captain gimmick that was being an overglorified turbohitler hence why you're nailing a captain ban. Any further genuine FNR deaths will be given a day game ban per along with the current captain ban.

To Steelpoint: I'll come up with something, but it won't be an antag token. That would be hypocritical regarding this thread. Next time you see me on shoot me an ahelp and we'll sort something coolio out.

To Armhulenn: You did a fine job, I just want to make this ban a little more clear in what it's trying to achieve. If I'm being misguided hmu.

[Armhulen]

ok sounds good, the day of the smelt just became one day later

[feem]

smelt is fish, spelt is grain

[DiamondSentinel]

Alright, thanks. Just my last words before I'm done with the thread.

The questions I asked are all really trying to ask the same question: Do you honestly feel that your actions, if viewed from outside your [empowered] position, would be viewed as being sane, rational, and in keeping with what other players want of their captains?

Captain is a shitty role, but it's also one with a lot of responsibilities. Captain shouldn't be about 'winning' -- in some ways it's about toeing the line between being a dick and keeping order on the station, though a different kind of order and in a different way than, say, the HoS would accommodate (though many people don't play it that way).

A few people have shown up in this thread to say that they felt like you violated Rule 1 by going out of your way to be a bloodthirsty captain, and while you're correct that this happens frequently, that isn't justification for its occurrence -- and people get a lot of bans.

It's a really bad idea to kill someone for doing their job (i.e. cloning them), as a captain. It's a much better idea to correct their behavior. If you'd tased or disabled them, I don't think we'd be here. If you hadn't made a collection of heads made up of anyone who vaguely tided you, I don't think we'd be here.

That having been said, I understand what you're saying when you say that you took action to stop someone who was trying to bring a traitor back into the round. I just think that you might have gone overboard by absorbing yourself and the people around you into your INQUISITION microevent and that your trigger finger might have been a little more itchy than the situation would have warranted if you hadn't started the round in an escalated state.

1. Honestly? Yes, I do. It was no different from just regular traitor hunting, aside from the fact that I went straight to capital punishment. At the beginning it was a mess, but once the brig blew up, that was the only thing we could really do. Regardless of the whole heretic purging thing, this is just a more zealous version of the usual proactive captain.

2. I'm well aware that captain isn't about winning. I didn't care about winning anyways. I honestly fully expected the traitors to bomb the bridge and my office immediately, and for me to go down pronto. I mean, that's what happens when I'm a passive captain, so why wouldn't it happen when I'm actively hunting traitors.

Regardless, even if they hadn't captainbanned me for a week, I won't be playing captain any time soon anyways. I don't really care much for the role, thus why it's low priority for me. I just use it for joke rounds (thus my inquisition and the former Stanford Station Experiment).

Reparations don't fix the fact that you killed the CMO unfairly, I don't think i'm going to lift this

But I killed them based on faulty information. It's not like I said "Hmm, I'm going to just kill the CMO today. It's just that kind of day."

After sleeping on this I'm going to unban you from the game and captain ban you for 6 days .

I can understand that you killed the CMO due to misinformation by what you'd normally assume is a trusted source [the ai], especially after you more/less subverted it. I'll give Steelepoint something for the troubles since he lost his round due to an admin-related issue and since you thought that you couldn't fix your mess [which for future reference you both can and should]. This is just one of those things that happens in the moment and I don't think you should have been banned for this necessarily. Misinformation is the cause of many deaths, and if we start banning for it we'd have the population of people who only powergamed to avoid getting banned for more/less NOT powergaming. That or the population of the Linux test server, neither of which I think anyone wants. The only reason i'm sorta overturning this actually is because I don't want people to get the idea that they may be banned for killing someone who was framed, which I think the current ban is showing as opposed to the actual bulk of what people are finding wrong.

However, the entire purge heretics meme was dumb. Had you not been doing this gilded turbohitler meme, you would have either 1) been a lot more passive regarding the CMO and perhaps avoided the conflict altogether/ resolved it more humanely or 2) thought to at least dispose of the hop body in some form instead of "Ah ah ah, don't clone the body or I get to kill you *wink wink*" . It seems like the day ban was suppose to cover this anyways from this appeal although it does not directly state this in the formal ban reason, so hopefully this will be a more direct "here's what you did wrong" punishment that you can look at and figure out what exactly you can improve on.

Before anyone looks into this and tries to find some shining light on the matter, Yes I was a part of this round. The only incident I had regarding the captain was after this one was banned and the other came in, I think I tried to give the new one a healing disease or something. If I was a part of the shenanigans I wouldn't resolve this thread.

If there was someone who got killed for even less of a reason [looking at you linksword], please explain properly on this thread so diamond can contest it. If it's a genuine, I'll tack on a day gameban for each actual random/improperly escalated killing. Otherwise, I think this is resolved unless someone wants to contend my decision.

In short: I'm dropping the game ban since I think the killing wasn't entirely your fault and don't want people to get the wrong idea of WHY you were actually banned, but this could have been avoided had you not chosen the dumb captain gimmick that was being an overglorified turbohitler hence why you're nailing a captain ban. Any further genuine FNR deaths will be given a day game ban per along with the current captain ban.

To Steelpoint: I'll come up with something, but it won't be an antag token. That would be hypocritical regarding this thread. Next time you see me on shoot me an ahelp and we'll sort something coolio out.

To Armhulenn: You did a fine job, I just want to make this ban a little more clear in what it's trying to achieve. If I'm being misguided hmu.

Well, to clear up a misunderstanding here, I wasn't validhunting. I wasn't giving people ways to be purged. I didn't leave the HoP's body out for the CMO to find and whatever. I just never clean up bodies after I kill them. So I wasn't trying to give people reasons for me to kill them.

Anyways, I'm done here for now. If there're any issues that need clearing up, PM me on Byond, more than likely. I rarely check the forum anyways.

[Cobby]

Yeah nothing else has to be said here except the quote below so i'm just going to resolve it.

>
I didn't kill any of the 3 people who grabbed me and cuffed me aside from the security officer who had actually attacked me.

Yknow, except for me, the Blue assistant. Who you also cut my head off and put it on the table.

If you'd like to further explain hmu on supportbus.