The Great Weeb Purge - Feedback

[Super Aggro Crag]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Then you're a gay poof.

[Xhagi]

Then you're a gay poof.

Works for me.

[Super Aggro Crag]

I dub thee Gayboy Supreme.

[Xhagi]

I dub thee Gayboy Supreme.

Woo!

[John_Oxford]

>actually trying to justify having cat ears and cat tails in a game in space

[Toroic]

Why the fuck do we still have catgirls?

Shame on the coders and maintainers that blocked goof's PR removing that weeb shit from the game.

The issue isn't really the 8 pixels of cat ears, or even the character themselves. The reason to keep furry and weeb shit out of the game is because of the *players* that sort of shit content attracts.

If it's a dealbreaker for anyone if we removed catgirls I am 100% confident that the server is better without them, and I fully include maintainers in that, no exceptions.

[calzilla1]

... the ability to pick your dick size, ...

I'm glad we don't even have OC backstories that can be put into the examine text.

Can they really pick their dixel size in a shitty atmos sim? Really?

Color, size, even fucking type.Trust me, I was thoroughly traumatized

[bandit]

why did it traumatize you, did they not have an option for micropenis

[MMMiracles]

It's amazing how much ass-blast and trauma such a simple cosmetic thing can do to a select few people. Like, I can get not liking it personally (I could care less), but holy fuck you're acting like this shit has actually traumatized you and keeps you awake at night.

Like, holy shit. Grow up.

[Dr_bee]

>actually trying to justify having cat ears and cat tails in a game in space

There is an entire department that fucks around with genes. Animal Gene bullshit is a common trope in sci-fi

or you can just let people have their fun, and stop letting sprites on top of a person's head ruin your day.

[Qbopper]

It's amazing how much ass-blast and trauma such a simple cosmetic thing can do to a select few people. Like, I can get not liking it personally (I could care less), but holy fuck you're acting like this shit has actually traumatized you and keeps you awake at night.

Like, holy shit. Grow up.

right?

[Grazyn]

>actually trying to justify having cat ears and cat tails in a game in space

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of ... es#Felines

[Grazyn]

I swear if headmins' answer to this is really "Let's just have another poll XD" my jimmies will be seriously rustled

what do you want then

nevermind i didnt see the third page and your post on it

Holy hell you actually did it



is there anything more useless than headmins?

[Toroic]

>actually trying to justify having cat ears and cat tails in a game in space

There is an entire department that fucks around with genes. Animal Gene bullshit is a common trope in sci-fi

or you can just let people have their fun, and stop letting sprites on top of a person's head ruin your day.

Except if we're going to add animal gene bullshit let's instead have it be 1) mechanically interesting and 2) not attract undesirables.

Catgirl players should really only be a hippie style pubishment for shitlers and be inherently valid. I wouldn't go quite as far as making lizards valid but restricting them from head roles is fair.

I swear if headmins' answer to this is really "Let's just have another poll XD" my jimmies will be seriously rustled

what do you want then

nevermind i didnt see the third page and your post on it

Holy hell you actually did it



is there anything more useless than headmins?

Remember that the requirements for being staff most places are excessive free time and the ability to ass kiss. Senority is usually the most important factor in rank. Goon is probably the main exception.

[captain sawrge]

then go play on goon lol

[Limey]

costume vendor has schoolgirl clothes, fucking nuke it!!!!

[Limey]

people getting pissy over the smallest of things, cat ears and tails for customization of all things. how about expand on it with the aforementioned tattoos instead of just killing it like big babies

but I guess its easier to remove something than taking the time to improve it

[onleavedontatme]

>it attracts bad players!

People who cant live and let live and ignore people who are different in inconsequential ways are worse players. This server belongs to them as much as you.

Everyone is on the "purge of shit" list for at least one other player, and over time we eliminate or alienate groups until the only truely protected playstyle, silent antag rolling, is left.

I voted against cat ears being enabled in the first place but I'd rather have a bunch of weirdos stuttering than just have a homogenous mass of assistants who never talk except to scream the game mode.

[onleavedontatme]

How entitled do you have to be to call for the removal of vast numbers of players who have been here for years when you joined less than two months ago

[Screemonster]

>it attracts bad players!

People who cant live and let live and ignore people who are different in inconsequential ways are worse players. This server belongs to them as much as you.

no kidding

I mean I don't give a fuck about my little pony except that my niece likes it, but the people who scream and kick up a fuss about it everywhere are like 900000% louder and more annoying than the fans who I can usually just ignore

same with homestuck, I'd barely be aware that homestuck was even a thing if not for having to listen to people screaming about how much they hate homestuck and are sick of hearing about homestuck

I don't even know what the fuck steven universe is about, but it sure does draw the ire of people who spend their time looking to screech about entertainment that isn't targeted at them personally

just shut the fuck up and do something you enjoy instead of pitching a fit over the idea that somebody somewhere might enjoy something you don't

[Super Aggro Crag]

Hey man I screamed about homestuck cuz people were putting in direct sprite references and shit back when we weren't supposed to have those

Also Steven universe has honestly gone downhill since they brought lapis back. Jasperdemption WHEN

[Toroic]

people getting pissy over the smallest of things, cat ears and tails for customization of all things. how about expand on it with the aforementioned tattoos instead of just killing it like big babies

but I guess its easier to remove something than taking the time to improve it

Improving cat ears would mean removing them and replacing them with literally anything else. SS13 has a particular aesthetic, generally a mixture of sci-fi, 8-bit, and there is a streak of immaturity through it with clowns and farting. Thing is, not everything that a 12 year old would find funny or cool belongs here and purely cosmetic cat ears are a really obvious step in the wrong direction. There's no good sci-fi series that has catgirls, it's purely weeb bait.

>it attracts bad players!

People who cant live and let live and ignore people who are different in inconsequential ways are worse players. This server belongs to them as much as you.

Everyone is on the "purge of shit" list for at least one other player, and over time we eliminate or alienate groups until the only truely protected playstyle, silent antag rolling, is left.

I voted against cat ears being enabled in the first place but I'd rather have a bunch of weirdos stuttering than just have a homogenous mass of assistants who never talk except to scream the game mode.

I don't give a shit about catgirls specifically, and in game I treat them like anyone else except I assume they're less likely to be robust. What cat ears represent however is an ill-conceived purely cosmetic feature that should've been culled by maintainers when it was initially being reviewed. In the same way lava dwarfs as a DF reference fits the "disaster simulator full of individuals with questionable motives and a tendency towards homicide" which has a lot in common with ss13, catgirls don't.

I don't blame players for catgirls being on tg, and I don't blame weebs for playing them. I blame the maintainers who merged a feature that should be an automatic no-go. The fact that you had homestuck references ever is fucking stupid but I'm glad they got reverted.

I'm not a fan of how paradise operates for similar reasons. They merge a lot of shitty cosmetic content that bloats the game and they can't balance for shit. But I have a ton more criticism for vulps over taj because they have absolutely no reason to exist when taj already did. They provide nothing interesting mechanically and just cater harder to a particular subset of furries without providing anything new for anyone else. That's a clear example of bad design and a maintainer that can't tell the difference between bad design and good design is as useless/harmful as an admin that can't tell when a player is breaking the rules.

I'll make fun of weebs, catgirls, furries, etc. because they exist in real life and tend to be pure cringe but I am way more concerned about maintainers merging questionable content and then not pruning it. That's the sort of shit that ruins codebases.

How entitled do you have to be to call for the removal of vast numbers of players who have been here for years when you joined less than two months ago

There's a few different angles I can tackle this statement with. I've decided to give you some choices.

1) Playing ss13 for years means I don't have to play on an individual server for more than a few months to know when a feature sucks.

2) I'm not calling for the removal of weebs, catgirls, furries. I'm saying that if someone is going to be upset enough to leave after removing catgirls then the server is probably better without them.

One of the great things about TG is that it gives coders a lot of flexibility to try out new features and code. But without a strong and effective review process you're risking feature creep, balancing issues, and merging of questionable content that will always take a long time to remove because most people are pro-status quo and most can't tell a difference between a good feature that doesn't affect them and a poor feature that doesn't affect them.

TG's code review and curation is a mess and the way maintainers conduct themselves leave me completely unsurprised when goof doesn't respect you guys either. Certain features should've never been merged and should've been removed swiftly, yet we still have things like beach bums which is content that in 95% of games never is interacted with, it's dead space.

TG is never going to have the unified vision that say, CM has where even if each change isn't good, it's aiming for the same theme and feel. Frankly, I don't think it would fit TG's strengths and would stifle good ideas. But catgirl ears adds nothing, smells of a maintainer pushing a personal fandom, and supposedly was a temporary feature that "just happened" to never get replaced. It's not hard to see why that shit makes me highly suspicious. The fact that Remie repeatedly closed goof's PR to remove a bunch of similar features doesn't sit well with me. Obviously he was being an ass in the PR and that's not helpful for a persuasive piece but if you guys want goof to be more professional you need to be professional yourselves. Memes and drama over PRs makes it look like you guys don't know wtf you're doing.

The attitude of "fuck off you're new" is also a little concerning because most people who are here for a few months like something on the server, but that doesn't mean they like everything or just have accepted the flaws. I've put up suggestions and been a part of discussions where I've politely discussed why a feature isn't good and been open to having my mind changed. I've also checked the github and know that fuck all is being done about it a month later except for a freeze which generally works out poorly. If the goal is to focus on bugfixes instead of development generally less bugs are fixed and people either work on post-freeze content or more interesting projects.

I've been watching the forums and github between playing for like 2 months now and I see a lot of individual coders putting up great PRs and improving the server despite staff largely memeing on github and the forums. I'd give the server an A- and staff a C+. Catgirls are just a minor symptom of this bigger problem.

[Aloraydrel]

I wish I could be autistic enough to get mad over pixel ears and write essays on why it offends me.

[Screemonster]

opinion presented as fact

[captain sawrge]

TL;dr anyone that uses the term weeb bait sincerely probably got too many blows to the head for quoting rage comics in high school

[captain sawrge]

"Fuck off you're new" very much applies when what you're bitching about is purely a cultural thing that has existed in the server for several years

[Toroic]

I wish I could be autistic enough to get mad over pixel ears and write essays on why it offends me.

I wish I had your critical thinking skills so I would be blissfully ignorant to the larger context.

TL;dr anyone that uses the term weeb bait sincerely probably got too many blows to the head for quoting rage comics in high school

Based on your catgirl avatar I really don't expect you to be any more unbiased than you're being.

"Fuck off you're new" very much applies when what you're bitching about is purely a cultural thing that has existed in the server for several years

"Purely a cultural thing"... just lol. It's not a cultural thing, it was a "temporary" feature that was snuck in for a tattoo system that never materialized. A shit feature for multiple years doesn't make it any better than a shit feature that was freshly merged. I don't give a shit about cat ears specifically, I want pointless and regressive content removed.

Also, of course you would double post.

[Remie Richards]

Tattoos were never going to be a thing.
The system has always been called "mutant_bodyparts".
Not to mention (good) tattoos can't git on the sprites.

[Screemonster]

"Fuck off you're new" very much applies when what you're bitching about is purely a cultural thing that has existed in the server for several years

It's a thing that other servers get too
Same with chats and forums and games and god knows what else, there's always that occasional new guy that shows up complaining about how the place isn't like the place he likes, always presents it as a concerned player "looking out for the good of the community" and all that patter, that the community would be better if it was more like the place he likes, and completely failing to realise that if the existing members wanted a community like that, they'd all be over there instead.

[onleavedontatme]

but that doesn't mean they like everything or just have accepted the flaws.

Sure, but referring to large portions of our playerbase as "undesirables" when you're new is a bit much

TG

Please don't bait me!

[Toroic]

but that doesn't mean they like everything or just have accepted the flaws.

Sure, but referring to large portions of our playerbase as "undesirables" when you're new is a bit much

Are you implying that large portions of TG are furries and weebs?

It's a thing that other servers get too
Same with chats and forums and games and god knows what else, there's always that occasional new guy that shows up complaining about how the place isn't like the place he likes, always presents it as a concerned player "looking out for the good of the community" and all that patter, that the community would be better if it was more like the place he likes, and completely failing to realise that if the existing members wanted a community like that, they'd all be over there instead.

If there was a place that was exactly how I liked it, why would I be anywhere else? I think TG has a lot of great features and objectively it's a commonly used codebase. That doesn't mean I like everything and if I would've started playing here 2 years ago I'd feel the same but not be complaining about it because I would've lost faith that positive changes would be made.

That scenario isn't conjecture, that's literally how I feel about paradise two years after I started playing there.

[Xhagi]

Too late Kor you took the bait! Into the freeze chamber you go!

[onleavedontatme]

>maintainer pushing a personal fandom

Maintainer didn't make this PR and maintainers didn't enable it on server (our host did!)



Nor is it a small furry cabal doing it, for better or worse people care strongly enough about this that catgirls got more votes than our headmin elections did.

[captain sawrge]

Cat ears have existed as a clothing item since I started playing in 2011. No one took a problem with them then.
The community used to be by majority "weeaboo" and "degenerates." Sorry, but you're the new undesirable here walking in and demanding things change because you take a personal distaste to them!

[Steelpoint]

To be fair there is a critical difference between clothing items and mutations locked behind genetics, and round start race options as a cat person.

[Toroic]

>maintainer pushing a personal fandom

Maintainer didn't make this PR and maintainers didn't enable it on server (our host did!)



Nor is it a small furry cabal doing it, for better or worse people care strongly enough about this that catgirls got more votes than our headmin elections did.

Realistically the only contact non-problem players will have with admins is forum posts, so most people really won't have enough information to make an informed decision. If you aren't a problem player and you don't know a lot about how one headmin will do things differently you don't have much motivation to vote.

I respect the attempt that democratic polls represent, but they can only be as useful as the people voting are informed. The US in November is a recent example of how democracy doesn't work because people don't know wtf they're doing.

It's not an easy thing to evaluate and come to a consensus on good vs bad code to merge as a whole, especially for more complex PRs. You're having to rely either on largely uninformed masses or a small number of volunteer staff who may or may not have any concept of game design or good taste. You in particular probably need to balance the politics of both groups so they don't throw a shitfit.

Catgirls are pointless off theme fluff. They don't represent a balance issue, they don't encourage disruptive griefing, they're popular so I fully understand why they were merged and why they continue to stay in. I don't agree with them being merged and not being reverted because pointless and off theme are second priority for removal/rework. (First priority would be unbalanced, non-functional, or unused features).

If the majority of players want them in and they already got merged though, you're kind of fucked trying to remove them.

Cat ears have existed as a clothing item since I started playing in 2011. No one took a problem with them then.
The community used to be by majority "weeaboo" and "degenerates." Sorry, but you're the new undesirable here walking in and demanding things change because you take a personal distaste to them!

Well, then my concern about community degradation is baseless. Only way to go was up!

To be fair there is a critical difference between clothing items and mutations locked behind genetics, and round start race options as a cat person.

Retarded clothing options have been a ss13 staple forever and as a joke or on an antag things like fake cat ears are hilarious. It's less funny when you have extremely limited roundstart options but one of them is a catgirl because it's being played straight more often than as a joke.

TG basically has human, catgirl, lizard, plasmaman as roundstart options. One of those is not like the others.

[Remie Richards]

If the majority of players want them in and they already got merged though, you're kind of fucked trying to remove them.

No shit! That means you shouldn't even be considering removing it unless there is something immensely wrong with it.
And unfortunately for you, the only place the "immense wrongness" of it exists is in your autistic blob of a brain stem.

[Wyzack]

Toroic please keep writing essays under the delusion that literally anyone gives even the slightest fuck about your shitty opinions, it is wildly entertaining

[Xhagi]

Someone sum it up I'm too lazy to read it all.

[Screemonster]

I respect the attempt that democratic polls represent, but they can only be as useful as the people voting are informed.

it's a "democracy is only correct if the people vote the same way I do" episode

[Wyzack]

I bet you he is typing up something super smart right now

[Xhagi]

I respect the attempt that democratic polls represent, but they can only be as useful as the people voting are informed.

it's a "democracy is only correct if the people vote the same way I do" episode

I also wonder how people can be 'uninformed.' You either want catpeople in your spessmens or you don't. It's not like a complex political issue god damn.

[Wyzack]

How can they be informed if they didn't read his thirty page dissertation on the issue?

[Super Aggro Crag]

I been here a long long time

There was a button that would put everyone in Japanese school girl costumes and quote otacon
There's tohou costumes for wizards
We gots katanas
We have motherfucking jojo references

This server had always been weeaboo trash, its a fucking 4chan server, and the original host was a fucking tripcoder who would role play as a fucking werewolf in world of darkness threads and post about sergals.

Fuck off newfag, lurk more.

[Xhagi]

Once again Crag is right. Crag continues to be right and will for the foreseeable future be right.

[Super Aggro Crag]

Seriously, the fucking STONES on this stupid fucking goon cunt. Catfolk dont fit the theme? No scifi has cat people beyond anime? Are you ten fucking years old? What about Star Trek, you stupid piece of shit? You know, the franchise that named all of our original chemicals before golfball fucked it up and the reason our security team wears red? Dont forget the fucking Man-Kzin wars, you scumsucking waste of scrotal skin.

Roundstart cat ears exist for the same reason roundstart lizards do, people like to play them and admins were sick of getting spammed with ahelps and prayers to liggerize/spawn cat ears every round. If its fucking degenerate to play a fucking tiny sprite that represents something someone might jerk off too you better remove the Asian and black skin tones because I've fucking nutted to way more black girls and Asian girls than I have to cats.

[Remie Richards]

I been here a long long time

There was a button that would put everyone in Japanese school girl costumes and quote otacon

Not was, *is*, it's been back for atleast a year now.
It gives you the seifuku, but now it also makes you a cat person (Kor) and converts your name to an anime name (Me) like ie: Hedwig Algebra -> Algebra-Chan

[onleavedontatme]

I respect the attempt that democratic polls represent, but they can only be as useful as the people voting are informed.

it's a "democracy is only correct if the people vote the same way I do" episode

Well he thinks the "staff" is stupid so he doesn't trust a dictatorship either.

But if the staff are stupid and the players are stupid I'm not sure who is supposed to be making this decision

[Toroic]

If the majority of players want them in and they already got merged though, you're kind of fucked trying to remove them.

No shit! That means you shouldn't even be considering removing it unless there is something immensely wrong with it.
And unfortunately for you, the only place the "immense wrongness" of it exists is in your autistic blob of a brain stem.

I'm trying to explain something I consider pretty fundamental to your role as a maintainer that isn't part of your design philosophy.

Something being popular doesn't mean it is high quality or good for the server. One way to approach being a maintainer is to strive for the best codebase you can, which generally is aiming for mechanical balance, being feature rich, and pruning low quality/regressive features.

The other option is to focus on things you think will be popular and by keeping changes from baseline human minimal you avoid both any balancing work and any interesting features. It's lazy and boring but easy and won't cause issues.

Fundamentally I think catgirls are a stupid theme compared to the many potential options you could present players, but I would greatly have preferred they were either a clothing option (due to being picked primarily for cosmetics) or given interesting strengths and weaknesses like plasmamen, or even just fucked with their speech like lizards and be explicitly non-human to present some social barriers. Both of these make a lot more sense from a design perspective than having them exist as a roundstart pseudo-species that functionally is exactly the same as a human.

Populist decision making opens you up to louder voices carrying more weight, and mob mentality being used instead of logical reasoning. Catgirls themselves are harmless (if the community is already full of people who love weeb shit) but I don't understand why they were considered worth merging, nor why they weren't given an interesting twist, and my primary concern is that over years a lot more popular but pointless meme shit will clog up the codebase the way it clogs up the github.

I been here a long long time

There was a button that would put everyone in Japanese school girl costumes and quote otacon
There's tohou costumes for wizards
We gots katanas
We have motherfucking jojo references

This server had always been weeaboo trash, its a fucking 4chan server, and the original host was a fucking tripcoder who would role play as a fucking werewolf in world of darkness threads and post about sergals.

Fuck off newfag, lurk more.

This was actually the most persuasive argument I've seen in this thread. If the cancer is already stage 4 it doesn't make sense trying to treat it and instead just let people live out their stained waifu-pillow lives.

I respect the attempt that democratic polls represent, but they can only be as useful as the people voting are informed.

it's a "democracy is only correct if the people vote the same way I do" episode

I would rather have a discussion with someone I disagree with who can explain why they have a particular position than someone who agrees but has stupid reasons for doing so. The former has the potential to change my mind or provide more perspective, the latter makes me uncomfortable.

I also wonder how people can be 'uninformed.' You either want catpeople in your spessmens or you don't. It's not like a complex political issue god damn.

It's not a political issue at all but it's not insignificant. There are significant differences between the codebases in how they're handled from citadel which is all fursuits to paradise which is some fursuits to tg which is catpeople-light to hippie which uses them as a punishment to goon and cm which completely deleted any possibility of having them. A new player will see the cat ears and tail mutation and that tells them about the server and depending on how into weeb shit they are that's either going to be a pro or a con and over time might actually cause significant changes in the community. Paradise gained a lot more furry players after they added vulps as a percentage of the community and that was basically a cosmetic-only feature.

Human behavior can be influenced by really minor shit like color http://www.nytimes.com/1982/10/19/scien ... wanted=all so it's not easy to be sure that something doesn't have an effect.

Seriously, the fucking STONES on this stupid fucking goon cunt. Catfolk dont fit the theme? No scifi has cat people beyond anime? Are you ten fucking years old? What about Star Trek, you stupid piece of shit? You know, the franchise that named all of our original chemicals before golfball fucked it up and the reason our security team wears red? Dont forget the fucking Man-Kzin wars, you scumsucking waste of scrotal skin.

Roundstart cat ears exist for the same reason roundstart lizards do, people like to play them and admins were sick of getting spammed with ahelps and prayers to liggerize/spawn cat ears every round. If its fucking degenerate to play a fucking tiny sprite that represents something someone might jerk off too you better remove the Asian and black skin tones because I've fucking nutted to way more black girls and Asian girls than I have to cats.

That was a lot more about you than I needed to know, but thanks I guess?

As far as star trek, I feel the same about it as star wars where we can keep the cool shit (lightsabers for example) and drop the stupid shit (midichlorian equivalents) because both sci-fi franchises had plenty of both awesome stuff and staggeringly stupid stuff. Star trek had a lot of features that were due to having a really low budget and even within that universe there are a lot more interesting inclusions than catbeasts.

But if the staff are stupid and the players are stupid I'm not sure who is supposed to be making this decision

I would say staff are unprofessional and disorganized as a whole more than I would say they're stupid, but that's basically the crux of the issue, yes.

[Super Aggro Crag]

Run your own server then, fucko.

[Remie Richards]

We focus on code quality primarily, after that as long as something isn't controversial, it gets added.
We have no direction, we have never had a direction, the odds we will spontaneously gain one are low.

Catpeople were added because the code produced a useful system, and they were wanted (enough).