Cerestation (It's dead, Jim)

Post by **MMMiracles** » Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:08 am #263710

Bottom post of the previous page:

Whypop wrote:-TUUUUBES-

You mean like this?

Spoiler:

It goes from evac > engineering > science > evac. I have another one set up that goes between medbay and command, as well.

Post by **MMMiracles** » Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:54 pm #264285

Updated OP image, edits include:

AI Upload added to Research branch, double r-walls surround it.
Aux construction moved to Research branch, old room in Arrivals changed into a vacant office.
Perma-cell has a mounted flash to incapacitate occupants, added a small bathroom out of view to store things/hide from flash/cameras.
Expanded Robotics to give them more room, added two fire suits to the Research airlock.
Added transit tubes between Engineering, Docking, Research, Medbay, and Command. I don't know how much they'll help with walking distances but they look cool to ride in so.
Added some more cameras to help with coverage, mostly in SMES rooms so AI has easier view of active APCs.
Teleporter in Arrivals lost maintenance access to make it more difficult for breaking into.
Fixed hilarious issue with the mining shuttle taking the docking bay instead of the actual shuttle.
Compressed the bartender's back section a bit to make everything more within quick reach.
You can actually walk around the planters in Hydroponics now.
Atmospherics has a canister storage and exterior ports to plug in air pumps/siphons.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:28 pm #264298

Do telecomms work now?

Post by **MMMiracles** » Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:57 pm #264306

Yes, telecomms work now.

Okand37 · Post by **Okand37** » Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:23 am #264502

I'm glad to see the progress you've continued to make on this behemoth of a station, it is definitely looking very neat! Cargo especially is absolutely stunning, I'm a very big fan of the docking classic U docking design you did. Great work!

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 7:41 pm #265053

I really don't like how open and big the library is. Its already one of the least used rooms on any map. Same with the chapel. Each individually is larger than huge chunks of several departments. Together they're just a ton of mostly unused space.

Several areas too, like sec, feel like they were stretched by one tile in all directions just to make them feel bigger. It makes the area feel less like a room and more like a big flat plain.

Post by **MMMiracles** » Wed Mar 08, 2017 8:16 pm #265070

There really wouldn't be a point to compacting them as all that would be doing is replacing open department space with asteroid, as I don't really have any need to push another room into that area.

I would blame 'openness' feeling being due to that I haven't put any real effort into filling areas with clutter, which I'll address once I get everything else in place. I totally agree with areas like the fitness or holodeck, though. I'm looking into a different way of designing them to be more compact as they just feel like wasted space more than anything.

EDIT: Progress on updating the engine to be the SM instead of singulo/tesla.

Spoiler:

Ignore the vacant space, I'm still figuring out how to fill that in without re-arranging everything else. Maybe like an inner-lobby area?

Iatots · Post by **Iatots** » Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:17 pm #265646

Looks nice, though there is little room for more emitters.
Also, I hate fetching and filling the one plasmatank on boxstation, and here there is two.
Also also you missed the opportunity to have the waste redirect to atmos for gas generation.

Post by **MMMiracles** » Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:46 pm #266105

OP updated with progress.

Singularity/Tesla now fully replaced with SM setup.
Majority of Engineering was shifted a bit upwards to fill in the excess space caused by the particle accelerator's removal, left some of it for whatever gimmicks the engineers can think of.
Added a maintenance door to the bottom section of Engineering so engineers can actually reach the transit pod within a reasonable time frame.
Fitness remodeled, better use of space and what I believe is a more visually pleasing area to be in. Includes fitness instructor to keep the crew motivated.
More maintenance clutter and some side room off-shoots from the main tunnels.
Scattered more firefighter closets across maintenance tunnels, should be an adequate number.

Gun Hog · Post by **Gun Hog** » Sun Mar 12, 2017 4:13 am #266292

Mech fabs are probably too far away from the Robotics console.

micheal2 · Post by **micheal2** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:41 am #266663

Here are my list of complaints for Ceres:

1. The cargo doors are glitched on lock-down.
2. Cargo has absolutely zero stuff to sell, so it is very difficult to compile credits.
3. Ceres is a huge station, Please add more janitorial equipment. Take whatever is in there currently and double it. Ceres station essentially doubled the area for janitors but only gave them half what was need.
-2 more jani-carts
-6 more cleaner grenades
-2 more mouse trap boxes
-2 more light bulb boxes
-2 more mops
etc.

Kel · Post by **Kel** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:46 am #266666

Space bridges need to seriously be reinforced. As they are now they are decompressed by space dust, and for how easy it is for them to be ruined, they take up a massive amount of space and literally required to traverse.

IcePacks · Post by **IcePacks** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:12 am #266677

This is one of my favorite concepts that I've seen in awhile. I'll start with the pros first:

It avoids a needlessly huge maintenance. This is honestly my favorite part of this map. Instead of a bunch of cramped maintenance tunnels with little maintenance departments and metric tons of fluff rooms you've got a few rooms that serve a purpose. There's still some rooms with a bunch of crap in them, but far less than, say, Delta (which is the primary offender in this case).

The scope is great. Maintenance being less involved in the map moves more activity into the hallways. I've yet to actually play a full, thorough round on it but I like the concept. I feel the size of the halls will still provide an element of isolation and danger to being attacked, which is a pretty key component of the game.

Locating a department is relatively simple. Not really much to say here. Isolating the departments makes it that much easier to locate them.

The brig design is amazing. This brig smacks of classic ss13 map design and it's probably one of my favorite parts of the map so far.

That said, the map isn't without its flaws. Here's what I've come up with so far:

The scale can work against it. I can see security and especially medical crewmen struggling to do their jobs efficiently with this map. There's just too much ground to cover in too little time. Janitors will also be hard-pressed to do their job, since most of the departments are isolated.

The shortcuts aren't great. I don't think transit tubes would be enough. Maybe some shortcut tunnels or caves would help?

The disposal-launchers are not a good idea. Just use pipes. Nobody wants to see a delivery floating freely in space. Just use pipes.

The hallways are way too vulnerable for their size. Structurally, it makes even less sense than the whole of delta. Gameplay-wise, this can lead to annoying depressurizations in thoroughfare that I can't see anyone really enjoying or fixing.

Post by **MMMiracles** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:13 am #266703

I really do appreciate the compliments and criticism, helps with progressing the map further and makes the testmerges feel like they were worth something.

As for the concerns with scale and travel time, I'm trying to work in ways to traverse quicker, but much can't be done past transit tubes or something crazy like a public teleporter. I am looking into cave shortcuts based in the maintenance tunnels. Something similar to a barricaded-off shaft meant for mining out the asteroid's ores seems really cool.

I honestly enjoy the disposals launchers. If the issue is too much of an issue, I can look into adding more branched-off sections that disposals goes into, so people can intercept stuff and stuff will probably help with stuff getting launched into the void.

I've added some girders to the exterior bridges to beef it up against space debris. I'll also add some glass airlocks to section off the larger hallways to prevent one breach from depressurizing an entire hall.

As a note for some changes, I've taken to adding some low-chance ore spawns inside the larger asteroid chunks. With how ore-spawn rates work, you'll more than likely get low-tier stuff like iron and maybe silver/gold, but not much else. Good for a bored assistant who wants to make a flashy fortress or the desperate scientist who hasn't heard back from mining for the past 20+ minutes.

IcePacks · Post by **IcePacks** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:21 am #266738

Grilles and airlocks aren't going to do anything. You need walls.

XDTM · Post by **XDTM** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:53 am #266787

You could think of setting quantum pads in opposite locations of the station; if someone wants to isolate their department they can easily disable their own.

Rustledjimm · Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:54 am

First of all can I just say love the brig design and the layout of the departments. Some people were complaining "It's hard to find stuff" but that's simply because they weren't used to the map. Once you see the map it's so easy to find a certain department.

Regarding improvements?

The first thing I noticed after playing a Head position is how weak the Bridge seems to be. I think it needs more r-walls or something else to make it harder to break into.

Secondly as people have already mentioned the hallway bridges are very weak especially if say, spacedust, happens. Personally I think I see what you're trying to do by making them vulnerable but the sides of the bridges facing out (those that will get hit by spacedust) need to be reinforced in some way. I know little about mapping but if it is possible I'd suggest some kind of shielding to stop spacedust only on the outward facing windows? As I'd rather keep away from using walls it looks good the way they are.

Regarding the distances needing to be travelled I think the only people who would need fast travel is Security and Medical, perhaps Engineers could be argued to needing fast travel too. I'm unsure how best to resolve that one. Security and Medical getting their own teleporters that can only travel to the other departments somehow? Adding a small medical room to each department like how each one has it's own sec office. Stock it full of Epinephrine so people can be kept alive in crit as Medics respond? Each department gets it's own small wall-based defib (like the ones you see in real-life work places these days) that can't be taken off the wall somehow?

Great concept and hope it can be improved so the first thing we hear when "cerestation" pops up isn't REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Post by **MMMiracles** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:02 am #266819

I'm debating putting in 2-4 quantum pads to hit the cardinal directions of the stations that also have an increased power draw. You'd have to link them up with each other first before using them but afterwards you'd be able to jump across the station fairly quickly. My main concern is science stripping them for parts but I hope an angry mob of fat spacemen who hate walking will be enough to deter them from doing that.

XDTM · Post by **XDTM** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:04 am #266820

They should start linked, then people could redirect them at will.

Post by **MMMiracles** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 11:09 am #266822

XDTM wrote:They should start linked, then people could redirect them at will.

Eh, if you really want the convenience of being able to pop across a station this large in a near-instant, you should have to take the bit of time to walk over to both pads to link them. 1-2 minutes of inconvenience for the next 45+ minutes of quick transportation.

EDIT:

I've decided with it, replacing the transit tubes entirely because honestly they're not much faster than walking (if at all) and teleporting is quicker/more likely to be actually used. Each room contains a set of instructions and a multi-tool so anyone can link up the pads with minimal effort. Research, Cargo, Docking, and Security will have one of these rooms, but it'll be up to the crew to decide how to link these pads together.

XDTM · Post by **XDTM** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 12:47 pm #266835

My point is that if it's something that's simply the same every round it feels like busywork and a waste of time, rather than a gameplay element. Also i'd link medbay to somewhere, they're the ones that most need a quick travel time.

Post by **MMMiracles** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:09 pm #266841

XDTM wrote:My point is that if it's something that's simply the same every round it feels like busywork and a waste of time, rather than a gameplay element. Also i'd link medbay to somewhere, they're the ones that most need a quick travel time.

Same could be said for the engine/research/most jobs. If you want to be able to hop around the station with ease, you should have to take time for the initial setup.

Gun Hog · Post by **Gun Hog** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 1:39 pm #266847

Unlinked telepads are best here imo. I can set them up how I want, and fewer people will lynch me for touching them. I love the isolation idea, by the way. I personally would have wanted it to be easier to destroy a bridge. Two bombs on either side of the Escape section means I can trap people on the station and control the flow of crew trying to reach the shuttle!

XDTM · Post by **XDTM** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:09 pm #266856

Thinking about it it does seem like a nice nonstandard task for engineering/scientists to do. As for science deconstructing them, it'll result in a high lynching risk for a low reward, given that telescience has a very limited range when not fully stocked/upgraded, and this is a big map.

Post by **MMMiracles** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:38 am #267189

I've fixed issues with missing essential items and misc things I saw from complaints. The bridges have been reinforced with a double layer of girders under the grilles, which seemed to hold up fairly decently against 'threatening' level of meteor shower. Space dust breaching the bridges should be a rare occurrence now.

There are now quantum pad rooms in each corner of the map which can be linked in whatever order the crew deems more efficient. Should massively cut down on the foot traffic and gives science/engineers a sidetask to mess around with after the engine. You probably want to upgrade them, though, as the cooldown between usage is somewhat hefty for a high-pop crew who wants frequent usage.

I'm probably gonna take another 1-2 weeks dedicated to just fluffing out the station so it feels lively and lived-in, as I have no real intentions of changing layout unless there is a huge outcry against it. Starting with the Service wing.

Spoiler:

Newscasters, more intercoms, some posters, misc things like cobwebs/rusty walls in maintenance. I've also overhauled the Library bit to include a lounge area with a fireplace and some firewood to throw in. A secondary maintenance tunnel section was added to the right of the chapel/library/hydroponics to run wires through and give more isolated places to do sneaky stuff.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:15 am #267216

Did we ever settle on an official name for this?

Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:16 am

CereStation

Post by **MMMiracles** » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:37 pm #267403

Did some fluff work on disposals, much more interesting now in my opinion.

Spoiler:

Majority of the external catchers for disposals have been changed to this kind of belt feeder, mostly to help out those dropped into disposals, either willingly or by force. The airlocks leading out are all-access, so you can do a quick space-walk into maintenance and work out how to get back into the halls from there.

Spoiler:

All of the junction rooms that sort the packages were made to look a bit more dilapidated. In trying to keep with a theme, a lot of stuff in maintenance is going to be unfurnished/dilapidated as the maintenance tunnels are meant to be shitty passage that hold junk and wiring/pipes, not a secondary hallway for grayshirts.

EDIT:

I liked the idea of having a sort of mini-medbay for departments, so I'm trying it. Departments not directly adjacent to Medbay (Engineering, Cargo, Docking) now has a small 3x3/3x2 room stocked with some blood packs, an IV-drip, oxygen kits, and some roller beds. You don't get anything to directly treat burn/brute/toxins, only the ability to stabilize them while real treatment comes. Should help address some of the complaints I saw about 'bleeding out on the way to Medbay'.

OtherDalfite · Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:01 am

I think this station would be better off merging from 9 separate pieces into only 4. Perhaps join science and medbay at one corner, security at another, then cargo and engineering, and then have all the fluff jobs to a certain section. The map is just waaaay too big as it currently is for proper gameplay.

chanoc1 · Post by **chanoc1** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:45 am #268845

I have multiple problems with this map. The map is far too large for the population the server (Sybil in specific I guess, but I've seen it played on Bagil too) gets on average. The hallways are empty and you hardly passy anyone by, making the the whole station feel like a ghost-station(?). Also, I feel like there is not much of a point to having each department being so far apart other than "woah look how big it is they have their own separate things". It makes it a PITA to get anything anywhere. For example, I arrest a guy in cargo, and it takes me like 2 minutes to drag him over to sec. I feel like a lot of the station is also too vulnerable. Any random dipshit assistant can break the windows into the gulag room and break the teleporter and machines, considering there are space suits just laying around in maint.

Also, I saw like half of a clockcult get killed by a radiation storm and the AI maint wasn't shielded not sure if that's a bug.

ALSO, I ahelped "PM to-Admins: hey uh no joke this station really sucks in its current stage is the next round going to change map?" and kevins gives me an actual reply and qbopper replies with his "hurr hurr go post on fourms"
i call him a nigger and get ahelp muted :^)

5/10 map could use some improvements has potential though, the layout is interesting just don't like how unneccessarily fuckhueg everything is

EDIT: theres engineering security stuff in cargo security locker
also >no berets for security
come on man

Post by **oranges** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:53 am #268847

there's no way it's significantly bigger than meta or box, they both push the edges of z level 1 already

Lombardo2 · Post by **Lombardo2** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:01 am #268851

chanoc1 wrote: ALSO, I ahelped "PM to-Admins: hey uh no joke this station really sucks in its current stage is the next round going to change map?" and kevins gives me an actual reply and qbopper replies with his "hurr hurr go post on fourms"

Well, I mean, the admins can't do anything about it. Your criticism should be directed to the map maker.

chanoc1 · Post by **chanoc1** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:08 am #268853

Lombardo2 wrote:
chanoc1 wrote: ALSO, I ahelped "PM to-Admins: hey uh no joke this station really sucks in its current stage is the next round going to change map?" and kevins gives me an actual reply and qbopper replies with his "hurr hurr go post on fourms"
Well, I mean, the admins can't do anything about it. Your criticism should be directed to the map maker.

the point of my first ahelp was mainly to asking if & when the map was going to change

also at this point it's been said multiple times to post on the fourms didnt see why i had to get a reply about it

Digdugxx · Post by **Digdugxx** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:11 am #268858

Ai core turret control panel thing dont work

Lazengann · Post by **Lazengann** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:11 am #268859

It's not box so I hate it

Tsuchigumo · Post by **Tsuchigumo** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 3:38 am #268873

Played three rounds. One as Chemist, one as Cargo Tech, and one as Station Engineer. Rounds were clockcult, rev, and nuke ops in order.

Chemist round was fine. The station essentially feels like Box and Meta's "central square" design taken to its logical extreme. People seemed to hate how empty things felt, but coming from someone used to low-pop, I really liked the feel of a huge station where you don't have to pass by a million people to get from place to place. Didn't do very much exploring in this round, got in an extended fight with cultists in a maintenance tunnel, had a pretty decent time. Radstorms did fuck that round, however.

Cargo Tech was done largely so I could explore the station, and explore I did. Here's where my opinion started to shift, though- the map is just a little TOO empty. There are large empty hallways, and mostly empty maintenance sections with the occasional rusted-out room with nothing much inside of it. The size of the maintenance tunnels are a much-needed breath of fresh air in comparison to the popular stations, but the sheer lack of things to do in them for the most part just make it a bit of a waste. Finding crates rapidly became boring instead of fun, there wasn't anything beyond pickaxes to actually gain from maintenance tunnels, and even a pickaxe couldn't even get me into the rusted areas thanks to girders in the way. I was pleased to find that you could mine stuff out of the asteroid and do cool things inside of maint, but there's simply not enough there.

I took up Station Engineer just so I could try and build an illicit Rage Cage mined into the side of Maintenance, which was a blast. I eventually finished it before the nuke went off, and while it didn't see combat, it felt awesome to build something inside of Maintenance, being largely left alone aside from a few people moving through the area. For those used to a dense station and with no navigation skills, this map is probably horrible, but I personally enjoyed it so far.

Except for one particular issue that is.

There's simply no central gathering place in the map. Many areas can and should be this- the Bar, Arrivals/Escape, Medbay, the Bridge, even something like Dorms- there should be an area where players naturally congregate, some place that players can always head to relatively quickly that everyone knows where is, and something that reasonably attracts players to it. Without some centralizing feature, the station feels bleak and empty, and getting from place to place becomes a featureless walk that takes too long.

Suggestions:

- Give Maintenance tunnels something. Not confusion and density to the level of Box, god no- but even just a single large, easily accessible ruined area such as the illicit bar will serve to give a lot of character. I'd shoot for one large area and two other smaller ones. Either that, or give the rusted out rooms some actual character and items of value.

- Give the station some sort of important gathering area that is relatively easy to get to. It can be anything, just so long as players are naturally brought to it, and it can be used as a navigational aid. It might be too late to give the station something like this, but combining all of the low-importance things (bar, kitchen, dorms, other "fluff" rooms) might work.

- More navigational aids in general. Clear demarcation of where things are relative to other things in amounts that make it possible to drown can only be helpful, especially for new players who wouldn't even begin to know how to handle such a large map. While it's not functionally "larger" than other stations, it's much less compressed, making navigation more of a pain than on other stations.

MrEousTranger · Fri Mar 17, 2017 4:31 am

Why am I only now realizing this exists?

Qbopper · Post by **Qbopper** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:00 pm #269145

chanoc1 wrote:
Lombardo2 wrote:
chanoc1 wrote: ALSO, I ahelped "PM to-Admins: hey uh no joke this station really sucks in its current stage is the next round going to change map?" and kevins gives me an actual reply and qbopper replies with his "hurr hurr go post on fourms"
Well, I mean, the admins can't do anything about it. Your criticism should be directed to the map maker.
the point of my first ahelp was mainly to asking if & when the map was going to change

also at this point it's been said multiple times to post on the fourms didnt see why i had to get a reply about it

"change the map this sux" contributes nothing, and we're not going to change maps mid round

also, just because you know me outside of /tg/ doesn't mean I have to put up with you being annoying

chickenboy10 · Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:05 pm

Played 2 rounds as sec and nuke op.

It feels like the warden is a little too disconnected with the armoury, the brig control is a decent distance away, meaning the warden can miss break ins from space, as well as that there's no warden desk for officers to deposit antag gear on for the warden or request weapons from the warden, just feels bit clunky in general.

Bridge also needs to be reinforced (possibly with an extra layer of r-walls), the fact that its moved from the centre of the station to the edge, and that it can now be breached from space makes it a ridiculously easy target to attack. I also think there should be motion sensitive cameras in space around the caps office and quarters to make it much tougher to break in quietly.

Syndicates ops don't start with pickaxes, im assuming that's a bug. Also security locker in medbay has engineering security gear.

Otherwise the map looks alright, i really like how you can lock down departments by breaking its connecting bridges, and how this can be circumvented somewhat by emergency space suits or quantum pads if they've been set up.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:07 pm #269151

Tsuchigumo wrote:lots of stuff

In your grievances you mentioned maint and other places feeling a bit empty, it has been mentioned earlier in the thread that this is mostly due to it being a test merge and once the more outstanding issues are ironed out there will be the normal amount of random junk and hidden loot in maint and other secret places

Post by **MMMiracles** » Fri Mar 17, 2017 5:42 pm #269178

Yeah, these tests are me making sure the layout is sound and jobs have everything they need to function and interact with the station properly. The fluff comes after you've made sure the foundation isn't shit.

As for maintenance, I need to stress that I am not trying to go for a standard maintenance experience. These tunnels are less meant to serve as a secondary hallway for assistants and more as actual tunnels dug out for the purpose of holding wires/pipes/occasional random shit. There are some alternate routes that can be taken due to their setup and some stuff can be found, but you shouldn't be expecting it to be a hoarder's paradise of random shit.

Tsuchigumo wrote:
There's simply no central gathering place in the map. Many areas can and should be this- the Bar, Arrivals/Escape, Medbay, the Bridge, even something like Dorms- there should be an area where players naturally congregate, some place that players can always head to relatively quickly that everyone knows where is, and something that reasonably attracts players to it. Without some centralizing feature, the station feels bleak and empty, and getting from place to place becomes a featureless walk that takes too long.

Suggestions:

- Give the station some sort of important gathering area that is relatively easy to get to. It can be anything, just so long as players are naturally brought to it, and it can be used as a navigational aid. It might be too late to give the station something like this, but combining all of the low-importance things (bar, kitchen, dorms, other "fluff" rooms) might work.

- More navigational aids in general. Clear demarcation of where things are relative to other things in amounts that make it possible to drown can only be helpful, especially for new players who wouldn't even begin to know how to handle such a large map. While it's not functionally "larger" than other stations, it's much less compressed, making navigation
more of a pain than on other stations.

I'm not quite sure I understand where these come from. All service-based departments is clumped together on a single asteroid chunk, which is multiple social-based jobs together while the more independent ones sit on other areas. There really isn't a way to 'force' people to go to one particular area as that just sort of develops on its own as people play the map. As for navigational aid, I don't see the issue here either. There are multiple directional signs posted on the segments that lead to the bridges pointing in a department's direction, as well as the layout being easy to learn. If you can figure out that each chunk of rock is essentially its own department, then you've already figured out the map. You could look at the map for 5 minutes and that'd probably be all the mental notes you'd need to take to figure out where 'x' is.

chanoc1 · Post by **chanoc1** » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:53 pm #269795

Qbopper wrote:
chanoc1 wrote:
Lombardo2 wrote:
chanoc1 wrote: ALSO, I ahelped "PM to-Admins: hey uh no joke this station really sucks in its current stage is the next round going to change map?" and kevins gives me an actual reply and qbopper replies with his "hurr hurr go post on fourms"
Well, I mean, the admins can't do anything about it. Your criticism should be directed to the map maker.
the point of my first ahelp was mainly to asking if & when the map was going to change

also at this point it's been said multiple times to post on the fourms didnt see why i had to get a reply about it
"change the map this sux" contributes nothing, and we're not going to change maps mid round

also, just because you know me outside of /tg/ doesn't mean I have to put up with you being annoying

hey assfag if you had any reading comprehension you'd know i said " is the next round going to change map?" retard

also, okay?

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:06 am #269798

It should be kept in mind that the lack of a central gathering area seems to be a deliberate design choice. From what I gather, each asteroid is meant to be its own little island.

IMVader · Post by **IMVader** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:23 am #270451

The map is huge, barren and unfinished. Here just a few complaints:

* As a Security Officer you get no access to security records consoles nor extra clothes (berets!) in brig.
* Despite you have ten (Ten!) holding cells, perma is tiny and equipped with only a single door.
* The purpose of the Inmate Transfer Facility beats me, unless if you want a larger perma after removing the picks. A larger perma that has a single door so it's riskier to put several prisoners. Because if you leave people in there as it is they will just pick at three or four walls and be freed. Then you have to worry about an extra access to brig.
* As AI you get tons of error messages.
* If you try to flood the station you'll realize that some vents are not connected to the main loop, so no plasma there, and that the presence of Air Alarms is very slim. The whole system could use improvement.
* in Bridge you see the lovely Bridge APC access door which only borders a single wall.

All in all the map has absolutely nothing new. The departments either have less stuff than Box, Meta or Delta, or have the same but there is just more empty space in and between them. It feels desolate, like playing in the derelict.

The concept is very interesting. A station on an asteroid? Small independent mini-stations? Nice. The problem is that the implementation severely lacks. And it does show, the players curse each time Ceres is chosen and the admins are forced to do events to keep things moving.

Please remove this from the roster. It gave me and my family cancer.

Post by **MMMiracles** » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:51 am #270455

IMVader wrote:The map is huge, barren and unfinished. Here just a few complaints:

* As a Security Officer you get no access to security records consoles nor extra clothes (berets!) in brig.

This is why we do tests, as odds are I've missed a few things. Easy fix.

IMVader wrote: * Despite you have ten (Ten!) holding cells, perma is tiny and equipped with only a single door.

Extra cells fit into the cellblock design I was going for, perma being treated as the shit hole you throw the terrible people into. If the lack of airlock despite the mounted flash is an issue, then that's something easy to squeeze in.

IMVader wrote: * The purpose of the Inmate Transfer Facility beats me, unless if you want a larger perma after removing the picks. A larger perma that has a single door so it's riskier to put several prisoners. Because if you leave people in there as it is they will just pick at three or four walls and be freed. Then you have to worry about an extra access to brig.

The joke is that every map with a "transfer facility" is actually just a hallway that leads to a execution chamber off-campus to keep Asimov AIs ignorant and happy. All I did was replace the chamber with a ditch to throw corpses into.

IMVader wrote: * As AI you get tons of error messages.

Yeah, this is an issue with byond attaching unnecessary tags to var-edited stuff, causing the links to fuck up. It's something I need to go through and remove manually via notepad once I get stuff set.

IMVader wrote: * If you try to flood the station you'll realize that some vents are not connected to the main loop, so no plasma there, and that the presence of Air Alarms is very slim. The whole system could use improvement.

Everything should be stemming off from 2 major distro/waste pipes, so some pipes not getting flooded is odd. Did you make sure the atmospheric rooms on each asteroid were open? If those were all active and the issue persisted then I probably missed a pipe or two under an air lock or something. I'll throw in some extra air alarms if they seem too scarce.

IMVader wrote: * in Bridge you see the lovely Bridge APC access door which only borders a single wall.

I may of compressed the bridge a bit and didn't notice this issue when adjusting the rooms. Whoops.

IMVader wrote: All in all the map has absolutely nothing new. The departments either have less stuff than Box, Meta or Delta, or have the same but there is just more empty space in and between them. It feels desolate, like playing in the derelict.

Isolation is more of a key concept in this map design, the distance between departments and the asteroid Islands are meant to feel 'empty', in a sense. I've just finished giving maintenance q clutter overhaul, with departments being next, so I'm hoping to address the issue of empty-feeling departments. Not sure if I fully agree with the "playing on the derelict" issue fully, although I can somewhat see where it comes from.

IMVader wrote: The concept is very interesting. A station on an asteroid? Small independent mini-stations? Nice. The problem is that the implementation severely lacks. And it does show, the players curse each time Ceres is chosen and the admins are forced to do events to keep things moving.

Please remove this from the roster. It gave me and my family cancer.

This part I don't quite understand. I know not everyone is going to fully enjoy my implementation of the concept, but I've yet to see this entire "everyone hates the map" concept. Apart from the few vocal upsets from a select few, I've gotten mostly positive responses and helpful criticism. I've had it ran on both servers with decent results, barring the first run on basil which was a fuck up on my part.

This isn't in the rotation yet and is still being developed. I occasionally ask 1-2 times a week to test changes based on criticism. I make sure to post this thread in OOC multiple times to post feedback, so I feel like if the map was as cancer giving as you said it is, I'd see more negative responses.

Then again maybe it's my glaring bias and I only ever notice pure praise for how glorious and ground breaking the map is.

IMVader · Post by **IMVader** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:56 am #270860

So, I just played a round in Ceres as HoP, and I can give some more feedback, as well as some selected feedback from friendly OoC (and some IC):

Played as HoP, some more feedback:
* No recharger in HoP office. One has to leave to recharge the gun.
* Once the alarm is set of in captain's office there is no way to turn it off. At least not from within the office.
* Quite hard to find a spare oxygen tank from HoP's.
* Two tiles is all that is needed to block security. Four if you want to deny the security officers the possibility of breaking the windows to enter/escape.

OOC: Qbmax32: what the fuck is cerestation
OOC: Auvrith: cerestation is asteroids
OOC: S0ldi3rKr4s0: time to travel half the station for some sulphuric acid haha
OOC: Sentient_loaf: ITS CERESTATION
OOC: Sentient_loaf: WHY!
OOC: Sentient_loaf: *COMMITS SENPOUKO
OOC: Sentient_loaf: * BLEEDS ON THE FLOR
OOC: Syruse Eln: cerestation is shit
OOC: Ghende3: a map so new it's only 60% complete :^)
OOC: Killobytes: Cerestation excuse me!?
OOC: Gadd: Why is Cere on the rotation if its not completed
OOC: Jcl1234: 0H G0D CER3STAT10N
OOC: MercuryArrow: >only 60% complete, already 2beeg
OOC: Gadd: But we already know whats wrong with it
OOC: Auvrith: increase escape pod count please
OOC: Auvrith: two escape pods for something this huge is no bueno
OOC: Killobytes: it's not that it's too big, it's that it has fucking nothing in it
OOC: Your Neighbors Obnoxious Cat: ^
OOC: Chickenboy100: ^
OOC: S0ldi3rKr4s0: no no, it's definitely too big
OOC: S0ldi3rKr4s0: too big and too fucking empty
OOC: Syruse Eln: all of the departments are too far apart
OOC: TrahsMaster: Oh boy this empty place AGAIN.
OOC: Speceman: Most of the station is empty as hell, feels like a ghost town
OOC: Auvrith: departments are really far apart
OOC: Syruse Eln: and the lack of fridges in botany and the kitchen make botanists and chefs want to kill them selves
OOC: Braincoral35: Does QM still have a bridge office in this station for some reason?
OOC: ArcaneCarrot: Botany has more empty space than cargo has loading dock space
OOC: Auvrith: there's no fridges in botany? what the heck
OOC: DrBee: Deltastation can get away with it's size by having a populated central station and a very feature rich maint, Ceres has huge no mans lands and a boring maint

Brady Dimeling says, "So some idiot put the cloner behind genetics access."
Brady Dimeling asks, "Also whose idea was this rwall right here?" (The wall in front of the identification console in HoP office)

OOC: KorPhaeron: so how many times have admins run nations on this map/is it fun
OOC: DankAnimeme: One it is god awful
OOC: DrBee: the station has solars INSIDE of it, where it cant get any sun, my god
OOC: Killobytes: okay this map is trash sinply because robotics is so undergeared
OOC: MMMiracles: what do you mean by 'undergeared'
OOC: Killobytes: doesn't have the basic stuff that other maps have, like medkits and proximity sensors
OOC: Ghende3: it's a donut the size of canada, going the wrong way hurts a lot
OOC: TrahsMaster: Cere was such a crap station too.
OOC: Chickenboy100: thank god its not ceres station again
OOC: Radioactive Mush: that station was ass. And not the good kind
OOC: Radioactive Mush: the game was fun, but the station is hella large
OOC: MercuryArrow: I like ceres for the gym and the no-man's-land being a boon for tatoring, but otherwise, it needs more.... everything. Too empty for how big it is.

This all was over a single round. The first I've played in Ceres since I last posted here. But it's not an anomalous amount of saltiness over the station. Every round in it is the same.

Post by **Armhulen** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:57 am #270861

>bagil

they couldn't appreciate a good map if it hit them

Post by **MMMiracles** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:26 am #270874

I take criticism into account, but people should understand there isn't much to work off of "this sucks" and "its too big". Telling me about specifics, like missing equipment or 'I dont like x because of y" is a hell of a lot more useful and can actually help with creating the map.

Emptiness is something I can only fix in departments, as I have no intention of further filling maintenance with loot or compacting the asteroids closer together, considering that'd go against the entire purpose of the map in the first place. More often than not, maintenance is considered a secondary hallway for most and finding secluded areas to do shit is difficult without every grayshirt and their mother finding you because they were busy scouring every corner of maintenance for loot. There should be on-station areas to be sneaky without as much fear of being found, which is something most current maps lack.

I have no intentions of stopping development soon, so I'll keep pushing for testmerges and basing changes on the feedback from those testmerges.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:44 am #270898

If you're going to call something shit, at least explain why it's shit.

As for the map itself, I still haven't had a chance to play it. Hopefully I'll get to soon.

ShadowDimentio · Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:58 am

It was really big and spread out.

But that was the point, so it was good.

Qbopper · Post by **Qbopper** » Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:06 pm #271024

My only complaint was the dead space inside departments, otherwise I liked the concept a lot

It's a shame most people don't come up with criticism beyond "this sucks", especially when that's a gut reaction because they didn't get to play on box for a round or whatever

Compress CereStation?