Flashbangs

Jembo · Post by **Jembo** » Wed Dec 28, 2016 11:21 pm #239249

Literally the push a button to win item available in mass to sec. The fact that there are no negatives to using them as sec is ridiculous. As you can use one against a single player in a room and they have virtually no way of escaping the AOE insta stun that won't effect the player using it who's standing on top of it. Nerf, limit, or remove. They're not necessary anymore now that sec has bolas.

Also half the time they're used a griefing tool so sec can just chain flashbang the shuttle before, or after arrival.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:42 am #239260

I generally use 'bangs on lockered perps, Cosmic.

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 10:49 am #239329

Never really saw them as a problem, they are very powerful but very limited in supply and a great way to piss of a crowd. I've seen a lynch mob form and beat a sec officer to death for trying to bang a ling in a crowd, said ling just adrenals and yakkity sax'd as everyone else go up and pummeled the sec officer for being an idiot and not trying to communicate that the ling was infact a ling.

You can also throw them back, run away or find hearing protection if you find yourself against a sec squad using them in bulk, but they only get about 12 or so across the full department and they are underutilized as is so I don't see any major reason to nerf or change one of the few non-lethal items sec has that is actually non lethal and can't directly kill someone.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:08 am #239331

It's a bit of a dirty weapon, but then again sec has to fight against everything that gets their own arsenal of dirty weapons.

Cik · Post by **Cik** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:18 am #239332

if you are getting hit by flashbangs, you are cornered

if you are cornered, the question arises:

why are you cornered

Reece · Post by **Reece** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:11 pm #239346

Baseballs should autohit flashbangs back at the thrower

Lumbermancer · Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:24 pm

Jembo wrote:Also half the time they're used a griefing tool so sec can just chain flashbang the shuttle before, or after arrival.

oh no, nerf flashbangs.

XDTM · Post by **XDTM** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:44 pm #239359

Fun fact, flashbangs stun through protection if they explode in the same tile of someone. So if a sec officer is cheeky and follows you with flashbang in hand he's gonna get stunned for longer than you.

Jembo · Post by **Jembo** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:28 pm #239399

I find a full screen AOE stun, that not only doesn't effect the user of said weapon, but all their teammates as well is a little unbalanced. As for limited supply it really depends on the map, but there can be over three boxes and a sec vender with plenty. I mean if they were truly a rare item I might agree but they're far from it. They at the very least should stun every person on screen regardless of protection, at least then it would force sec to think about using the weapon before just going into their pack and pulling one out after another to stun someone. Obviously protection would still reduce the stun, but it wouldn't completely negate it as it does now.

Sec has plenty of other options in dealing with riff raff, they don't need a screen wide stun with zero negative effects on themselves.

Reece · Post by **Reece** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:32 pm #239400

Flashbang and Tear gas combo is fun.
Also can the clusterbang launcher be classed a warcrime?

onleavedontatme · Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:35 pm

AoE stuns that the user and all his friends are immune is probably the saddest part of our whole combat system.

Post by **TehSteveo** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:58 pm #239402

Kor wrote:AoE stuns that the user and all his friends are immune is probably the saddest part of our whole combat system.

We have a combat system?

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:58 pm #239403

Kor wrote:AoE stuns that the user and all his friends are immune is probably the saddest part of our whole combat system.

I mean, this is what borgs put up with on a daily basis but people say borgs are OP.

Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:14 pm

Davidchan wrote:
Kor wrote:AoE stuns that the user and all his friends are immune is probably the saddest part of our whole combat system.
I mean, this is what borgs put up with on a daily basis but people say borgs are OP.

do you mean EMPs because flash AoE mode doesnt stun borgs

calzilla1 · Post by **calzilla1** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:44 am #239572

PKPenguin321 wrote:
Davidchan wrote:
Kor wrote:AoE stuns that the user and all his friends are immune is probably the saddest part of our whole combat system.
I mean, this is what borgs put up with on a daily basis but people say borgs are OP.
do you mean EMPs because flash AoE mode doesnt stun borgs

YES IT FUCKING DOES

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:20 am #239582

Kor wrote:AoE stuns that the user and all his friends are immune is probably the saddest part of our whole combat system.

Ugh, I REALLY hate that area of effect roar praetorians have.

Anyway if flashbangs are nerfed sec will need some serious buffs in return.

Gun Hog · Post by **Gun Hog** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:31 pm #239694

CosmicScientist wrote: What did sec have to do before bowmen? Chuck and hide off screen from the bang? I honestly can't remember.

I believe the audio portion of the flashbang was blocked by helmets, which previously included hardsuit helmets (having one made you immune to flashbangs entirely). Bowman headsets were added by Paprika, and audio protection also moved to the headsets by him. Security still had flashbang immunity, only that their hats provided instead of headsets. It is a realistic change, except that hardsuit helmets (a metal, full head helmet would muffle sound) were not included in it any more.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:29 pm #239711

Plenty of things you can do about flashbangs, for example you could remove the stun and just make it a blinding flash, deafen and staggered movement effect.

But like I said, if flashbangs are nerfed than sec needs buffs.

Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:41 pm

CPTANT wrote:Plenty of things you can do about flashbangs, for example you could remove the stun and just make it a blinding flash, deafen and staggered movement effect.

But like I said, if flashbangs are nerfed than sec needs buffs.

no sec would not need buffs that's the point of a nerf you dip to make something explicitly weaker as a whole

we could rebalance sec to have something more interesting (read: not necessarily more powerful but just something more fun than "le aoe stun") in exchange for weakening flashbangs

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:56 pm #239717

PKPenguin321 wrote:
CPTANT wrote:Plenty of things you can do about flashbangs, for example you could remove the stun and just make it a blinding flash, deafen and staggered movement effect.

But like I said, if flashbangs are nerfed than sec needs buffs.
no sec would not need buffs that's the point of a nerf you dip to make something explicitly weaker as a whole

we could rebalance sec to have something more interesting (read: not necessarily more powerful but just something more fun than "le aoe stun") in exchange for weakening flashbangs

Those 2 sentences just contradict each other....

Reece · Post by **Reece** » Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:18 pm #239721

How about we weaken traitors who can slaughter half the station with 18TC?

Or is that bad because you play traitor?

Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:58 am

Reece wrote:How about we weaken traitors who can slaughter half the station with 18TC?

Or is that bad because you play traitor?

Nice meme I coded the hard counter to dual esword it's called throwing a corpse

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:00 am #239738

>Grab any bowman headset from the various completely unguarded lockers
>Grab any pair of earmuffs in science/engineering/cargo
>Grab any pair of sunglasses/sechuds from same sec posts/maint, YOU KNOW THE THING EVERYBODY SAID EVERYBODY WOULD HAVE TO COUNTER FLASHES THATS WHY WE NEED TELEBATON

#wow
#whoa

It's almost like this game benefits people who prepare for things that fuck them over.

Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:01 am

Saegrimr wrote:>Grab any bowman headset from the various completely unguarded lockers
>Grab any pair of earmuffs in science/engineering/cargo
>Grab any pair of sunglasses/sechuds from same sec posts/maint, YOU KNOW THE THING EVERYBODY SAID EVERYBODY WOULD HAVE TO COUNTER FLASHES THATS WHY WE NEED TELEBATON

#wow
#whoa

It's almost like this game benefits people who prepare for things that fuck them over.

Implying you won't get murdered on the spot for having any of these things as non sec

TheColdTurtle · Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:03 am

Yeah but if you do, then a help it

Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:10 am

TheColdTurtle wrote:Yeah but if you do, then a help it

Vast majority of our admins would rule this valid I guarantee it

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:12 am #239743

PKPenguin321 wrote:Implying you won't get murdered on the spot for having any of these things as non sec

Well its either getting murdered on the spot or getting murdered back in sec when your spaghetti esword pops out of your pocket.

Also I will gladly ban anybody that murders someone just for having earmuffs and sunglasses.

Post by **oranges** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:19 am #239782

PKPenguin321 wrote:
TheColdTurtle wrote:Yeah but if you do, then a help it
Vast majority of our admins would rule this valid I guarantee it

>he's an admin

What did he mean by this Saeg?

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:19 am #239783

oranges wrote:What did he mean by this Saeg?

IC issue

Incomptinence · Sat Dec 31, 2016 4:29 am

It's called escalation, they may have the flashbangs but you can chuck a bomb or a grenade or some shit. Wow AOE kill erryone 2 op remove everything! Crawl back you your hole.

Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:52 am

oranges wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:
TheColdTurtle wrote:Yeah but if you do, then a help it
Vast majority of our admins would rule this valid I guarantee it
>he's an admin

What did he mean by this Saeg?

i've seen the other side
i've seen dark things

onleavedontatme · Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:58 am

Incomptinence wrote:but you can chuck a bomb or a grenade or some shit.

That's kind of how I'd want flashbangs to work ideally though. Something that people throw and everyone has to get clear of instead of ghetto magic missile when the sec officer runs after someone holding it for 4 seconds then drops it.

firecage · Post by **firecage** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:11 am #239825

Kor, then we should probably also nerf antags who can kill most of the station with ease, and who has very few effective counters(one of them being flashbangs, assuming they aren't wearing sunglasses+bowman). Like Double Esword traitors(or those with an Esword and Ebow).

Sat Dec 31, 2016 7:58 am

firecage wrote:Double Esword traitors

t h r o w
c o r p s e

Reece · Post by **Reece** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:28 am #239859

PKPenguin321 wrote:
Reece wrote:How about we weaken traitors who can slaughter half the station with 18TC?

Or is that bad because you play traitor?
Nice meme I coded the hard counter to dual esword it's called throwing a corpse

Who coded the hard counter to flashbangs?
Running the fuck away seems early work.

Jembo · Post by **Jembo** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:32 pm #239866

Double E-sword isn't difficult to beat, use bola 6 metal - cable cuffs to make. Sec comes with bolas in the sec vender. After they start running at you, just throw it at them, it's super easy to land on a person chasing you. Now look as they can't really chase you, and you can take them out at your own leisure because moving slow = death in this game.

Sec doesn't need a screen wide, stun that they're all immune to. They have other tools available that require more skill to use, and have potential draw backs. Every weapon in the game suffers from friendly fire. With the single exception of flashbangs, and a few of the super weak isk weapons. Pretty sure pepper spray, and normal flashes don't exactly count as weapons.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:01 pm #239884

Jembo wrote:Pretty sure [...] normal flashes don't exactly count as weapons.

NOT ANYMORE

Incomptinence · Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:01 pm

Conversion antags go back to your hole.

John_Oxford · Post by **John_Oxford** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:25 pm #239898

"nerf sec reee this item thats been in the game since the start is op reee nerfff"

fuck off, you dont know what your talking about and your salty that you got flashbanged for being unrobust.

Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:28 pm

Reece wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:
Reece wrote:How about we weaken traitors who can slaughter half the station with 18TC?

Or is that bad because you play traitor?
Nice meme I coded the hard counter to dual esword it's called throwing a corpse
Who coded the hard counter to flashbangs?
Running the fuck away seems early work.

any not braindead officer will run after you ya meme man

Lumbermancer · Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:35 pm

PKPenguin321 wrote:
firecage wrote:Double Esword traitors
t h r o w
c o r p s e

You gonna lose your arms before you can aggressively grab a corpse.

Reece · Post by **Reece** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:49 pm #239918

PKPenguin321 wrote:
Reece wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:
Reece wrote:How about we weaken traitors who can slaughter half the station with 18TC?

Or is that bad because you play traitor?
Nice meme I coded the hard counter to dual esword it's called throwing a corpse
Who coded the hard counter to flashbangs?
Running the fuck away seems early work.
any not braindead officer will run after you ya meme man

Then yakety away from them better than they can keep up.
This is far easier than tossing a corpse at a double esword user as you suggested. Or steal some protection. Or never have it used on you since sec barely uses them

Iatots · Post by **Iatots** » Sat Dec 31, 2016 6:59 pm #239920

Earmuffs

In the accessory slot

toggleable.

Bonus: easily identifiable powergamers

Jembo · Post by **Jembo** » Sun Jan 01, 2017 1:22 am #239962

Reece wrote: Then yakety away from them better than they can keep up.
This is far easier than tossing a corpse at a double esword user as you suggested. Or steal some protection. Or never have it used on you since sec barely uses them

All they have to do is remotely keep up with you, and if they time it right they'll never miss. It's a screen wide stun, not a taser that if you're lucky and kinda skilled you can dodge in a three tile wide hallway. Also double bladed e-swords are easily killed by using bolas. Just bola them when they chase after you, and glass shard them to death.

I have also failed to see a single argument to why sec needs a screen wide stun, that they and their coworkers are immune to. If shit is really that bad, they have riot shotguns with rubber bullets.

Incomptinence · Sun Jan 01, 2017 3:04 am

Jembo wrote: I have also failed to see a single argument to why sec needs a screen wide stun, that they and their coworkers are immune to. If shit is really that bad, they have riot shotguns with rubber bullets.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

When was the last time you used a shotgun? The spread keeps to a single tile for much longer now, it's not so much a crowd control weapon any more. As soon as they get remotely near you you will be hitting them one at a time.

Since when was any role in this game pared down to the bare necessities?

Despite being told it's a matter of resistance and being on the same tile will stun the user anyway we still get these "immunity" claims. With the headset or helmet or whatever the fuck they need to keep some distance from the grenade to not get stunned for a short duration, with earmuffs they can get closer. Now how you expect technically perfect flashbang teamwork to be a factor when the fucking near immune action man is deaf with their earmuffs down I don't understand. Expecting the entire sec team to stay in of formation behind a flashbanger during a chase situation seems ridiculous any with that degree of coordination they could scrag the station as fucking assistants.

Flashbangs are very effective against blob but due to the average capability for coordination people always shit themselves over it. Be like a blob and evoluate.

ChangelingRain · Sun Jan 01, 2017 5:19 am

Incomptinence wrote:
Jembo wrote: I have also failed to see a single argument to why sec needs a screen wide stun, that they and their coworkers are immune to. If shit is really that bad, they have riot shotguns with rubber bullets.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

When was the last time you used a shotgun? The spread keeps to a single tile for much longer now, it's not so much a crowd control weapon any more. As soon as they get remotely near you you will be hitting them one at a time.

Since when was any role in this game pared down to the bare necessities?

Despite being told it's a matter of resistance and being on the same tile will stun the user anyway we still get these "immunity" claims. With the headset or helmet or whatever the fuck they need to keep some distance from the grenade to not get stunned for a short duration, with earmuffs they can get closer. Now how you expect technically perfect flashbang teamwork to be a factor when the fucking near immune action man is deaf with their earmuffs down I don't understand. Expecting the entire sec team to stay in of formation behind a flashbanger during a chase situation seems ridiculous any with that degree of coordination they could scrag the station as fucking assistants.

Flashbangs are very effective against blob but due to the average capability for coordination people always shit themselves over it. Be like a blob and evoluate.

If they're close enough to get hit by the full spread they also happen to be taking 90 damage a shot...

And flashbangs only affect immune people on the same tile as the flashbang, so it's not nearly as dangerous to them as you seem to think it is.

Jembo · Post by **Jembo** » Sun Jan 01, 2017 7:05 am #239999

Incomptinence wrote: AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

When was the last time you used a shotgun? The spread keeps to a single tile for much longer now, it's not so much a crowd control weapon any more. As soon as they get remotely near you you will be hitting them one at a time.

Since when was any role in this game pared down to the bare necessities?

Despite being told it's a matter of resistance and being on the same tile will stun the user anyway we still get these "immunity" claims. With the headset or helmet or whatever the fuck they need to keep some distance from the grenade to not get stunned for a short duration, with earmuffs they can get closer. Now how you expect technically perfect flashbang teamwork to be a factor when the fucking near immune action man is deaf with their earmuffs down I don't understand. Expecting the entire sec team to stay in of formation behind a flashbanger during a chase situation seems ridiculous any with that degree of coordination they could scrag the station as fucking assistants.

Flashbangs are very effective against blob but due to the average capability for coordination people always shit themselves over it. Be like a blob and evoluate.

You have completely immunity to flash bangs unless you're holding onto one, or standing directly on top of one. Everyone else in sec will also have this immunity unless standing directly on top of the flash bang you throw / drop. It's simple flashbangs should be used as they are in real life. Cult base in maint? Pop the flashbang open the door throw it in. Being unable to have perfect coordination is part of the game, that is why sometimes sec officers tase, disable, and accidentally stun co-workers with batons. Doesn't it make a difference? Yes sometimes accidentally stunning your co-worker gives the antag that one second chance they needed to escape. This also happens in rev, and cult when people fuck up and accidentally hurt a teammate and it costs them the win. Why should this one item be treated differently than every other item in the game?

Still failing to see your argument to why sec needs a screen wide stun that they as a whole are completely immune to. Also shotguns with rubberbullets are a fantastic weapon.

Incomptinence · Sun Jan 01, 2017 8:02 am

It's not immunity but if it is pretty bad blame the stun halving by HG.

Edit: Yup tested it total immunity that's pretty fucked up who made it total immunity instead of resistance?

My argument was based on old system where a guy with secgear and earmuffs couldn't stand right next to it and not get stunned.

Bombadil · Post by **Bombadil** » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:19 pm #241158

Well earmuffs are now printable from autolathe.

Now we just need sunglasses printable from autolathe

ShadowDimentio · Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:31 pm

>Sunglasses printable

Welding helmets are printable. They half blind you but these are the sacrifices you make if you're absolutely horrified of sec taking all the stops out and deploying the big guns.