doter 2 WHILST MVP DID NOT WIN THE MAJOR THEY WON OUR HEARTS

lzimann · Post by **lzimann** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:29 pm #234415

Bottom post of the previous page:

The beauty of dota, or at least what it used to be, is that there's no "THIS HERO IS A SUPPORT AND NOTHING ELSE", instead, everything works. Now I don't know anymore.

Kel · Post by **Kel** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:29 pm #234416

also; talents dont reinforce roles any more than abilities and base stats. if anything if they play their cards right it can diversify them and make them even more of a "they can be anything"

lzimann · Post by **lzimann** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:34 pm #234417

Now the website is in english. What the fuck is this lol hud, it's disgusting

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:39 pm #234420

your complaints are basically amounting to "im autistic and i dont like change."

wait and play the fucking patch before you poke holes in it like your mum poked holes in the condom you fucks

lzimann · Post by **lzimann** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:39 pm #234421

Yes, because I need to play to see the hud.

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:41 pm #234422

yes, because you need to play before you see how the hud affects you.

yeah sure you may not like it right now but it could be better in many aspects, the old hud was a fucking humongous piece of shit that took half of the screen with useless shit. i would rather it emulated wc3 in mechanics and not in stupid fucking hud shittery.

Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:01 pm

i dunno, 6 second slark leash along with him being able to hide team mates around him sounds pretty fucking stupid as does double strike on pa dagger

just seems like they spent ages balancing the game to a nice point just to mess with it all again

lzimann · Post by **lzimann** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:04 pm #234431

Icefrog is dead. Time to pack your things and leave, at least it's what I'm probably going to do.

Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:10 pm

lzimann wrote:Icefrog is dead. Time to pack your things and leave, at least it's what I'm probably going to do.

i'll be giving it a chance, they did a couple good things like nerfing jungling to the ground and the techies rework is at least an attempt to do something with the hero.

lzimann · Post by **lzimann** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:13 pm #234434

I mean, I am giving it a try, I've played a shitload of this game I can't just let it go like this, but man, I didn't like what I read so far.

Kel · Post by **Kel** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:27 pm #234438

everyone always screams THIS IS THE DOOM OF THIS GAME any time something big happens. remember bounty runes? remember rosh's pit being changed positioning? remember cooldown reduction... magic amping... spell scaling... all of this was going to bring the end to the game. we'll live.

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:54 pm #234443

like i dont really understand what you idjiots were expecting.

its 7.00

every first significant figure change has been a developer change. 5 > 6 was the change to guinsoo and icefrog. now its not a developer change but a change in that theyre no longer porting shit but making they own stuff. i welcome this new dota.

Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:58 pm

i was hoping for a new hero some reworks and some balance changes possibly some remodels which we got and are p cool

the talent tree is the only thing that i rlly dunno about tbh, I didn't expect that shit at all

Xhagi · Post by **Xhagi** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:11 pm #234451

Talent trees are not bad. If you look at Abbadon for example, he still can be built as a carry or support just by looking at the tree. Everything still can work, and maybe it'll let odd things work even better.

I want to play stealth Treant though.

Supermichael777 · Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:14 pm

I don't get this game. Why should i play it. it seems like a click-fest for Korean autism.

Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:18 pm

Supermichael777 wrote:I don't get this game. Why should i play it. it seems like a click-fest for Korean autism.

you play it
you realise you ain't very good at it
you wanna get better
2000 hours later
ur still not very good
you wanna get better

Xhagi · Post by **Xhagi** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:21 pm #234456

#roadto3kmmr

In it to win it boys.

lzimann · Post by **lzimann** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:24 pm #234458

All I really want is they giving up on this new HUD, it's, ugh, so bad.

Bolien · Post by **Bolien** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:31 pm #234464

With 2k+ hours of gameplay time in Doterz 2, I reserve judgement for the changes until its out and I got my hands out it.

Valve is also extremely responsive to community criticism so if its not great I expect changes.

lzimann · Post by **lzimann** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:50 pm #234470

On a positive note, we finally got a bot API(in case you are curious about it)

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:27 am #234579

Talent trees do three major things:

They make it so that a smaller portion of a hero's overall power is in items, meaning that the team in the lead is less dominant, which has a lot of really big snowball mechanics that hurt the tourny-scene a lot.

They make it so that there are now specific levels where the lead team is going to amp up agression heavily, which will speed up games and make more highlight moments and big crazy plays, again, good for the tourney scene.

And finally they make it so that a hero in theory could fundamentally change over the course of the game. This isn't the case with every hero talent tree, many are just generic, and a lot of the stuff is put way late in the tree. This is probably going to be the least successful aspect, with most heroes having a 100% correct talent pick at each level. The talents just are mostly pure stat gains rather than anything interesting like HOTS, who they are pretty blatantly ripping off, has. A HOTS hero's talents fundamentally change how their abilities work over the game making them more specialized, but the dota talents are sorta like league runes in that for the most part there is a correct pick and it doesn't do anything that will make the game more interesting or better. Like Lycan's 25 is cool because he has to pick between fight potential and splitpush potential, but for the most part its really small amounts of stats.

Armchair theorycrafting verdict: They will do good things for the game but will really just be nowhere near interesting in of themselves to use. Almost all the benefits are indirect of the actual idea of choosing talents.

Lumbermancer · Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:07 pm

Honestly I don't care about talents. Ironically I've been playing Hots lately because I can't be bothered to spend ~1 hour on a single match that may end up being utter shit anymore. If I have 4 hours to play vidya that's just too much.

Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:42 pm

Lumbermancer wrote:Honestly I don't care about talents. Ironically I've been playing Hots lately because I can't be bothered to spend ~1 hour on a single match that may end up being utter shit anymore. If I have 4 hours to play vidya that's just too much.

It does get a bit soul crushing when you play for an hour with a team that is literally at each others throats for the whole game. Dota is the only game I've played where it is possible for you to regularly encounter players who just want to spite your own team and lose on purpose because they don't like someone.

Aloraydrel · Post by **Aloraydrel** » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:25 pm #234707

Talent tree actually looks nice though.

Copybass · Post by **Copybass** » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:28 pm #234711

Some of the current talents are actually just nonsense and will need tweaks, but I really like the idea.

Kel · Post by **Kel** » Mon Dec 12, 2016 4:45 pm #234719

gonna miss leveling stats on antimage to make the earlygame a breeze though

lzimann · Post by **lzimann** » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:14 pm #234739

Some talents are stupid. My biggest concern is all the -X respawn time, they already removed it from meepo's ultimate before, so I'm not sure exactly why they are going on this path. I guess all we can do is wait and see how this turns out, if they will ever be able to balance this insane amount of new "skills".

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:43 pm #234766

The HOTS talent trees are way better designed for what you want the talent trees to actually do. These talents are not really going to be interesting or appreciated, because they don't do much besides add invisible power.

Issue is HOTS had the luxury of designing every character with talents, so they are super suited towards their characters: Abathur can decide mid game if he wants to be more capable of enabling the power carries to go nuts with an attack speed boost on his symbiote buff or helping the team lock down objectives and secure kills by giving his mines a slow. Its hard to realistically add enough major changes to abilities or hero mechanics to fill the tree.

The talent trees will probably do what they are supposed to do, but in an uninteresting way: make the game be less snowbally and create a more interesting tempo between the two teams as the behind team becomes aggressive when even on talents and the lead team when ahead. It creates a mini-'we got ulti's and they don't' moment every 5 levels and encourages the lead team to not make crazy risky plays just because they are ahead because it risks the talent tier, but it won't be very fun to get into the talents. They could for the most part juts totally remove the concept of the 'talent trees' and give you a massive stat boost every 5 levels and it would be identical, except now you can't choose the objectively wrong option.

It is also interesting they are taking a mechanic from HOTS, which I have started putting serious time into recently. It is actually a very surprisingly robust game. It has some wacky shit like Cho'Gal but it is interesting that the game is defined way more by making good choices than arbitrary busywork like last hitting correctly, and the talent trees were only half the equation in making a super dynamic game that could swing any time on a good play: The map objectives are much stronger in HOTS and I am not sure how much this will help DOTA as a spectator sport, which is 100% the reason they are doing this.

dezzmont · Post by **dezzmont** » Tue Dec 13, 2016 1:01 am #234869

It may make everything more complex but talents are very easy for a viewer to intuitively understand and for a caster to explain, and they can easily just be another rotation on the bar where the caster goes "Oh X Y and Z got talents 1 2 and 3, and here is why I think that is interesting." It will be a long term problem when everyone takes the same talents every time, which will never be possible to solve permanently without making the talents 'unsolvable' which involves making them more complex, because a big problem with Dota 2 is that every pro-game feels the same to watch already and while talents will actually make them more varied it is easy to see everyone taking the same garbage and feel like it is all the same.

It is not exactly a secret that the Dota 2 Tournament Scene is amazingly unhealthy. They consistently come last in viewer count, with their average game having less god damn viewers than SMITE, and play in the baby tier scrub leagues of viewship where they can be counted in the hundred thousands rather than millions like CS:GO or League. And Valve has gone absolutely nuts just throwing money at the problem trying to get people to watch and failing because, at its core, DOTA 2 just has bad design.

I don't mean the core game is unfun, or anything like that. But too much information is not possible to ever intuitively understand, and too many things are just random legacy bullshit that makes no sense. And Dota 2 players hold onto these things as important to the game's identity: The fact that the game has random bullshit that exists for no reason than to make the game less fun and harder to understand for new players inherently makes it unsuitable as a spectator sport, pretty much every action in Dota takes more effort to explain than a caster can do. It isn't dumbing things down to remove these elements, its a good game design strategy. You get difficulty and complexity out of mechanics that are easy to understand with profound ramifications, like gold loss on death, which while a problem for other reasons makes mistakes in Dota way more dire, rather than random BS like insane unique interactions with Doom's ulti and every passive in the game to the point 95% of doom mains probably don't know what it turns on or off forget about a caster, or a day and night cycle, or what trees are important to cut down, or random secret forest paths.

Kel · Post by **Kel** » Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:19 pm #235155

after a few rounds of dota the worst part of this update is by FAR is the UI changes.
it's horribly small for no real reason and for some reason gave me eyestrain after 2 matches. the new shop layout is straight up bad. i had to be told how to reach the actual main shop rather than starter items suggested items and common items. the thing that gets you to the real shop? a small button at the top with no labeling outside of 4 boxes line up around eachother. minimalist design is fine but this takes it to a next level of cubes within cubes within cubes that means different things and not a single readable letter to be found.

lzimann · Post by **lzimann** » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:14 pm #235168

Kel wrote:after a few rounds of dota the worst part of this update is by FAR is the UI changes.
it's horribly small for no real reason and for some reason gave me eyestrain after 2 matches. the new shop layout is straight up bad. i had to be told how to reach the actual main shop rather than starter items suggested items and common items. the thing that gets you to the real shop? a small button at the top with no labeling outside of 4 boxes line up around eachother. minimalist design is fine but this takes it to a next level of cubes within cubes within cubes that means different things and not a single readable letter to be found.

There are a lot of people complaining about their eyes hurting because of the new UI. I don't think anyone actually liked the UI as it is, so I expect valve to change it really soon.

Bolien · Post by **Bolien** » Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:32 pm #235170

Monkey Fag is OP.
Nerf plz Volvo.

FantasticFwoosh · Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:42 am

Undying can tick 90+ gpm (which translates to actually 1.5 or so extra gps) OR have -30 death cooldown at LEVEL 10, mix that in with a 10 - 8 minute hand of midas pre-level ten and you have HEALTHY cash and can pretty much switch to jungle or whatever until you get the cores to fix your shitty ass stats or rush a agahim & aetherlens to spam -10 strength on everybody +150 some odd damage every 4 seconds within a AOE.

Lategame level 25 zombies - deal +50 plus damage turning them into grinding machines and mass junglers especially when combined with vladamir's etc. (providing the enemy team doesn't grow a brain and squash the tombstone) the rest of the skill tree is forgettable.

If undying wasn't so trash in that update (and the game if you don't dominate the earlygame) that would otherwise be batshit broken.

ColonicAcid · Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:04 am

Get an aghanims and spam strength steal until the enemy team have the strength of a level 1 CM and you have basically a heart of terrasque in stats.

valid strat btw try it.

FantasticFwoosh · Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:33 am

FantasticFwoosh wrote:- rush a agahim & aetherlens to spam -10 strength on everybody +150 some odd damage every 4 seconds within a AOE.

ColonicAcid wrote:Get an aghanims and spam strength steal until the enemy team have the strength of a level 1 CM and you have basically a heart of terrasque in stats.

valid strat btw try it.

Mmmkay i just said that, but yeah its super fucking lethal when it works.

ColonicAcid · Wed Dec 14, 2016 10:37 am

didnt erally ready your entire comment i just saw "undying is bad" which i disagree if given the resources to rush aghs he becomes a DADDY.

FantasticFwoosh · Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:37 pm

ColonicAcid wrote:didnt erally ready your entire comment i just saw "undying is bad" which i disagree if given the resources to rush aghs he becomes a DADDY.

You spent a further comment talking about how you didn't read the comment. what.

> Its better to gank with your ult up or just not be involved whilst you go for aghs (side benefit = more stats) because the trait system offers particular heroes extreme damage buffs, meaty heroes you're supposed to bog down will just mulch you (pudge hooks particularly) in your shitty stats state.

You wont realise until now how reliant you were on the stat boosts to make a small pool of heroes playable.

> As it turns out, dire-side undying on the new map can jungle (sort of) the dire jungle between the large & small lane with tombstone (about lvl2 to hit both camps without constant forced pulling) by lvl 3 (tomb - decay - tomb) if you leech a bit of xp from lane & pulls by destroying the trees behind small camp & standing on the cliff over hardcamp, and pulling creeps into the adjacent (dire) hard camp to mulch both on zombies whilst you pick at the buff mobs (priority to kill satyr's to stop camps regenning between tombstones) is quite reliable.

Wouldn't recommend jungling, as its a strategy im trying to perfect. But heck its a thing thats more open in this patch.

> Also brood is actually good in this update since the traits compliment their typically horrible and extremely item based progression much more smoothly.

It goes for saying that if you can't add new items or actually rebalance some of the smaller diversity of (poor stat base & gain) heroes this trait tree is a superlative addition that hurts the balance by just tacking on bells and whistles to everything you do based by XP milestones.

captain sawrge · Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:48 pm

the patch is cool this game still provokes primal anger in me hope this helps

FantasticFwoosh · Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:07 pm

captain sawrge wrote:the patch is cool this game still provokes primal anger in me hope this helps

It triggers my motion sickness for some reason too now. Greeeeat.

A round of Primal anger & vomiting while being berated by screaming Russians, on the house!

Kel · Post by **Kel** » Thu Dec 15, 2016 10:49 pm #235752

just revert to the old ui tbh

Karp · Post by **Karp** » Sat May 06, 2017 2:20 am #289098

New compendium
Chat wheel sound spam
Aqua spirit soon
pve campaign
more awful immortals that are unnecessarily flashy but will still be purchased because they're shiny
Mass team coin farming
fun
http://www.dota2.com/international/battlepass

lzimann · Post by **lzimann** » Sat May 06, 2017 3:21 am #289112

I almost bought, but then i remembered i barely play dota nowadays.

Karp · Post by **Karp** » Sat May 06, 2017 4:22 am #289126

CosmicScientist wrote:>pay to enter the relic raffle

You get an automatic entry after playing 3 games which rolls at the end of the week. The only thing you need to buy is a compendium.

The new immortals look like ass short of maybe the monkey king and clinkz immortals tbh.

captain sawrge · Sat May 06, 2017 4:35 am

i like the cm one

Lumbermancer · Sat May 06, 2017 9:05 am

lmao people still play doto

FantasticFwoosh · Sat May 06, 2017 9:56 am

danno wrote:this is the worst game i've ever played

Its like crack cocaine, it'll put you out of a house and home, alienate you & your family as you distance yourself further, and dominates your mind at all times but you keep on coming back to it.

Karp · Post by **Karp** » Thu May 11, 2017 9:53 pm #292459

Goddamn, all I've been playing whenever I was free is dota recently. I'm not a fan of the patch direction and how punishingly awful highground pushes are and how easy the offlane is with shrine but still, it's doter and it's addicting. Is anyone else messing around with this compendium's shit? A few of the challenges are broken as an fyi and i'm not sure if they're fixed but the death challenge just requires you to die 6 times to get it and it gives a free level

slark thing is just the old lina fireball stuff but once a week with a chance of being the 10 out of the hundreds of thousands of people who have purchased a compendium if anyone hasn't done it yet

captain sawrge · Thu May 11, 2017 10:14 pm

I'm shit at Dota and I want to be good

captain sawrge · Thu May 11, 2017 10:15 pm

Tfw you obsess over a mostly inconsequential number

Karp · Post by **Karp** » Thu May 11, 2017 10:21 pm #292473

there is literally nothing wrong with wanting to get better at a game that is incredibly deep and complex to the point that 98-99%+ of the playerbase doesn't even understand half of it, or at least the execution of it

mmr is irrelevant though in the fact that all you really need to know is map awareness, lane control, lasthitting, farming rotations, and power spike timings to skyrocket to 4k+ from even the lowest mmr

t.2k trash who climbed to 3.8k-4k~ish average games

captain sawrge · Thu May 11, 2017 10:24 pm

It's a little discouraging that I've sat in sub 2k for so long is all. Even if I was 2k I think I'd be more satisfied.

I have always played support and it's only recently I've been playing more core and I already feel way more confident in position 3 than I have in like two years of playing 4/5