AI/PAI Features/Buffs/Upgrades

[kevinz000]

AI and PAI upgrades/buffs/features to make playing them more fun.
Discuss.
My idea is to give AIs an integrated modular computer console that has near-infinite storage and extremely good stats as an AI wired directly to the station's systems shouldn't need a desktop computer to access the intranet.
Also, I want to port/see if someone is willing to so I don't have to port yogstation/baystation PAI functions. On Yogstation PAIs can expand into drone form, ventcrawl around. Bay has a feature where PAIs can project holograms.

[letshavecake]

I've been saying this for years(and holy shit someone finally did some of it, the madmen), but let pAIs go into more stuff, like mechs to make use of the system functions or pilot it if they're allowed access and there's nobody in the cockpit, or in APCs to be like lite versions of the AI that can only do stuff in the room they're in

Could also have an R&D upgrade give hardsuits a personality slot and then roll some of the borer functionality into them, like autoinjectors with inserted beakers or ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL for a couple seconds if the host is unconscious and has given them prior permission
And even with a barrier to entry like that, it would still be pretty OP, so maybe give pAIs super nerfed abilities and regular AIs that are slotted in the more expanded functionality

[kevinz000]

I've been saying this for years(and holy shit someone finally did some of it, the madmen), but let pAIs go into more stuff, like mechs to make use of the system functions or pilot it if they're allowed access and there's nobody in the cockpit, or in APCs to be like lite versions of the AI that can only do stuff in the room they're in


Could also have an R&D upgrade give hardsuits a personality slot and then roll some of the borer functionality into them, like autoinjectors with inserted beakers or ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL for a couple seconds if the host is unconscious and has given them prior permission
And even with a barrier to entry like that, it would still be pretty OP, so maybe give pAIs super nerfed abilities and regular AIs that are slotted in the more expanded functionality

APCs are.. maybe if not too powerful for Ai control.
Mecha are a no go.
Hard suits.... That would require me porting baystation power suits. Good luck to me or anyone trying to lmao.
Pai things should be localized and not too round impacting as pais can be printed a dime a dozen.
Ais however are harder to make and have proper laws so it's acceptable to give them more power . If anything it should be possible to slot an AI into an APC in an emergency if there's no Ai core available to give it weaker control.

[Anonmare]

You mean like being able to slot an AI into an APC as though it shunted into it? APC AI copies are pretty limited in power, their camera is locked in placed over their APC.

I've suggested AI upgrades, nothing major or grossly impacting just things like proper Med and Sec HUDS, night vision, very slow self-repair and eavesdropping (from the illegal tech tree) etc.
The idea was to make t like surgery for the AI - reasonably good benefits but you have to put yourself in a position of powerlessness to get them.

[Wyzack]

Can we PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE slot PAIs into mechs, not for full control but just to allow them to interface with the panel?

I want a little voice in my mechsuit that i can give verbal commands to. Like have him set my lights and internals, prep weapons for me, and scream WARNING WARNING SYSTEM CRITICAL HULL INTEGRITY AT 20% WARNING. It would be really fun and useful QOL wise as well as thematically awesome without really being powerful. I have wanted this for years.

[letshavecake]

Pai things should be localized and not too round impacting as pais can be printed a dime a dozen.

Well, other ghost roles are also a diamond dozen
Why would someone be a glorified chatbot when they can be a drone or a borer or an ash ligger, all potentially round impacting things
pAIs are only printable like paper in the first place because they're so worthless

[Cik]

PAIs should really be slottable into everything.

that includes pretty much every interactable computer (doors, APC, air alarm..)

and most devices (mechs, space suits, jet packs, turrets..)

obviously it should take a little time to gain control of these things or it would be the new superpowergame tool, but w/e

doorjack needs to be faster, and it feels like it should have more memory for modules. new modules are also needed, off the top of my head:

R&D sync (so it can command remote fabrication of stuff)
note taking module (to take dictation etc)
universal recorder module
freeform module (so you can write laws in advance maybe i don't know)


anyway, PAIs deserve powercreep because all of the traditional reasons they were terrible (only way back into round etc) are long dead.

[kevinz000]

PAIs should really be slottable into everything.

that includes pretty much every interactable computer (doors, APC, air alarm..)

and most devices (mechs, space suits, jet packs, turrets..)

obviously it should take a little time to gain control of these things or it would be the new superpowergame tool, but w/e

doorjack needs to be faster, and it feels like it should have more memory for modules. new modules are also needed, off the top of my head:

R&D sync (so it can command remote fabrication of stuff)
note taking module (to take dictation etc)
universal recorder module
freeform module (so you can write laws in advance maybe i don't know)


anyway, PAIs deserve powercreep because all of the traditional reasons they were terrible (only way back into round etc) are long dead.

Yogstation pais have all that basically. I'm gonna try to port it sometime.

[Cik]

on AIs i just don't really know.

there's already plenty to do; if you are bored as AI you are doing it wrong. just go find something entertaining to do. help nonharmful traitors, intervene in feuds, play practical jokes, scold your borgs. etc etc.

i think the number one problem with the AI is that it has no system for actually being removed from control in an area; it's death or life is too all-or-nothing. if you want to remove the AI, the fastest and easiest (foolproof, really) is just to go to the core and kill it dead in 20 seconds. it's simultaneously too vulnerable and too invincible at the same time.

it really just needs to be overhauled, such that it has "processing centers" that distribute it across the station that can be destroyed, thus removing it's ability to influence parts of the station without actually killing it; and then the AI core can just be removed and it can live in the station's superconducting network, or whatever. in this way, the AI has to actually hold territory to prevent itself from being severed from control; it makes traitor/AI interaction more than "i c4 your wall u ded" or "i call for security u ded" overall it'd be fairer to both sides. i've grown tired of the game because AI these days is "hear a bang, power goes out, ded, spaced, ggnore" 1/2 of rounds in 10 minutes, while i understand the frustration on the other side when you just want to kill people and the AI has perfect and immutable control as long as you don't blow out every camera in two screens length of you before it sees you. (i mean, this is actually pretty trivial with EMP kit but, eh)

short of this though, i think AI is on the weak side since the removal of secborgs and the non-removal of all the things that were supposed to beat secborgs; as it is smart traitors push one button and kill every sillicon screen+length away undetectably with no chance of fighting back.

other than that though it's still fun so whatever. dying doesn't upset me these days, it just cuts down on my effective playing time.

[Anonmare]

I assume you mean System Shock 1 style with it's security level? Like, smashing SHODAN's cameras dropped the security level by 1-3% but smashing a processor cluster dropped security by as much as 50%. And in that game, reducing the security level was necessary to re-take control of systems she had locked out manual controls from.

[Cik]

yeah, exactly what form it takes is nebulous, but essentially the goal is to remove the AI as an easy target, while simultaneously allowing the AI's influence to be dynamically curtailed by attacking it's ability to control and observe "hostile territory"

past the removal of secborgs the AI can no longer actually defend itself, so the removal of the core is a "buff" but the easier-to-access "AI processing nodes" that would take their place individually are easier to access, and thus it is easier for antagonists to effectively sever the ability of the AI to monitor and control areas of interest.

it reduces the binary nature of the AI (heh) while also giving engineering and science more stuff to do (if the AI is getting it's nodes snipped they have to be repaired)

unfortunately this would probably take like 6+ months of coding and tons of remaps so it'll never get in, but i think it would work way better than the current AI core+AI sat defenses (which are currently useless, and if they were fixed they would be too good again)

[Anonmare]

I've always envisioned the idea as a bit like the R&D servers and consoles. Machines that detect rooms in a ~20 tile radius, any room in that radius is assumed to fall under that machine's influence (room influence can overlap with multiple machines), the machine is synced up to a nearby console that let's someone accessing the console see the machine's info and alter the influence.

I envision it as a list with every row being a room the machine can influence and the columns being AI input (Cameras and automated alerts in the area) and AI output (It's ability to interact with things in that room). So you could quietly turn off all the AI's outputs in an area without it realising immediately something's wrong.
Smashing the machine itself (Not deconning it) would deal about 20% burn damage to the AI and lose both input and output of every room it had influence over, unless the room falls under the influence of another machine.
The AI core could be treated as being like one of these machines but with a wider radius of influence and no console to mess with. Losing the AI core could make the AI suffer ~50% integrity damage and ender it unable to speak, use the announcement systems, holopads or use PDAs

AIs who have hacked a room's APC would have input and output of that room, regardless of the controller's status of course, and the loss of the AI core could make it lose 50 cycles and disable the doomsday countdown if it's active, as usual.

[Cik]

you could make the AI just a "network entity" that dies when it is reduced below a certain "sentience threshold" (% processing units destroyed of total units)

i don't think you really need an AI core anymore; assaulting it is pretty samey, it's defenses are either too low or too high (too low currently ree)

the whole idea also lays the framework for "AI wars" being more than "i shut off your APC lul" where both AIs might have to fight for shared processing resources.

anyway sky's the limit but it's probably a pipedream >tfw don't know how to code rip