[No longer admin]Brotemis

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:23 pm #14522

Bottom post of the previous page:

Brotemis and HG should be dual headmins.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 11:00 am #14732

a few things, first of which I'm going to acknowledge the best thing I can do is probably not post here and stop posting and playing and quit forever. But I'm not a smart man so here goes.

My experiences portray you as someone jaded as fuck, someone who made a complete 360 in personality from when you first became admin. I honestly think that, and would be quite sympathetic to you if, something is stressing you in real life.

My experiences with also point to you having ideas about game policy that are in conflict to mine, that I have no idea how you managed to come up with, and were found to be in conflict with other admins. We all make mistakes but the fact that you vigorously defended your opinion on two separate accounts and then showed no understanding of why you were wrong makes me doubt your judgement call on things.

You need to take a break. Not a temporary deadminning or anything else, just a break. Personally, when admins reach that point when they think of themselves as harsh and then refuse to listen to anyone else, those admins need to separate themselves from ss13 for a bit.

allura · Post by **allura** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:04 pm #14801

he does it for free

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:07 pm #14803

I'm kind of jealous of brotemis at this point

TheTerbs · Post by **TheTerbs** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:31 pm #15203

Brotemis wrote:Or terbs because he was banned from adminbus because he refused to take it to PM's or the forums as he should and instead kept rejoining after being told what he needs to do and kicked. .

This is a complete lie, I came back after being banned for months if not almost a year, and you banned me instantly from adminbus, you are so full of shit brotemis.

Lovecraft · Post by **Lovecraft** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:07 pm #15207

This thread is an ever constant reminder of just how much time, thought, emotion, and drive can really go behind telling a person "I don't like you, here's why:" while at the same time all contain information that is essentially null and void to all but a very specific group of people.
No one will remember this drama in 10 years, hopefully not even the people involved. No one will be referencing arguments made on an Internet forum board centered around an admin some people dislike.
Though people will keep making posts here.
Just please, for your own sake, take a big step back and examine what you're doing before stepping back into the fray. It really will humble you to notice what we're all doing here before continuing to write.
I love you all.

Stickymayhem · Post by **Stickymayhem** » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:30 pm #15208

Lovecraft wrote:This thread is an ever constant reminder of just how much time, thought, emotion, and drive can really go behind telling a person "I don't like you, here's why:" while at the same time all contain information that is essentially null and void to all but a very specific group of people.
No one will remember this drama in 10 years, hopefully not even the people involved. No one will be referencing arguments made on an Internet forum board centered around an admin some people dislike.
Though people will keep making posts here.
Just please, for your own sake, take a big step back and examine what you're doing before stepping back into the fray. It really will humble you to notice what we're all doing here before continuing to write.
I love you all.

At the end of the day it's video games. Whether or not you don't like one of the people who attempts to keep your spessmans fun, you will still enjoy it for the most part. We don't need this level of vitriol so I think it would be best if we made our points and move on.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:28 am #15220

I actually do not have a problem, personally, with you. I honestly kind of suspect (based on posts earlier in this thread like "I'm expected to take feedback from X, Y and Z?") that you will come up with some way to discount this feedback purely based on who's making the post. But on the off-chance you won't, hear me out.

Once again, with feeling: I don't have a problem with you. But I do think that you have a tendency to treat people who make adminhelps or FNR posts, and to a lesser degree policy arguments, as guilty until proven innocent, which somewhat defeats the entire purpose of having FNR. This thread is a perfect example: http://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=758. I wasn't in this round and I don't want to turn this into displaced steno, so I won't comment on the situation, but I feel like based on the information given your post is making a huge deal -- and implying that the OP is lying and trying to get away with... something? -- based on semantics. There's a difference between writing a post (that's obviously not proofread, I mean come on "wines") and screwing up a word or two and being a lying liar out to lie to people. (Besides, as far as I know perma and execution are functionally identical in terms of severity and in terms of taking people out of the round.) Alone your post might be a little plausibly deniable, but it fits a pattern that I and a lot of other people here find troubling. And yes, I'm not gonna lie, a lot of the posts in here come across the same way.

Which is weird, because I don't think this was always the case at all! Back when either you first got admin, or were up for headmin -- I honestly don't remember, it was at least a year ago -- you always came across as the dispassionate admin, the guy who would pull logs for everything to get the fullest possible information before jumping to conclusions. I don't see so much of that anymore. Honestly, it seems like you're burnt out. You mention working a full-time job plus adminning -- that is completely plausible as a thing that can burn people out. And I know you hold it up as a point of pride how active you are despite all this, but it isn't actually a sign of good character to devote more or less time to 2D spessmen. If you're burnt out, then take a break. I'm not saying this because "OMG YOU SUCK JUST QUIT NOW," I'm saying this because burnout sucks and it's bad enough to martyr through it in situations that matter more than spessmen do.

Brotemis · Post by **Brotemis** » Mon Jun 23, 2014 6:02 am #15260

I see your point. The process that I go through is very to the point and based on facts and what actually happens/happened as opposed to hypothetical arguments and situations of "if I wanted to do X then I would Y instead" or the like. An example would be "If I really wanted to grief the brig, I would bomb it instead of just IEDing it."

To the ban request in question, The title plainly states that the HOS killed them, but after reading there was no direct statement that they killed them. Or any logs. Only that the HOS got them killed. Vines are not logged and do not leave attack logs so the best I can do is simply clarify what happened the best I can before I can do an actual investigation. Also, More often than not I'm posting from my phone at work, otherwise I would be looking into it on the server.

I hope that clears up my line of thinking. There is no guilty until proven innocence, but do your best to make a ban request readable, to the point, and preferably with logs/screenshots. Otherwise there is a lot more to look into because we lose a lot of context without it.

damiac · Post by **damiac** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:52 pm #15621

OK, since everyone's doing the open and honest thing, let me give it a whirl too:

My issues with you, Brotemis, are pretty much what bandit just said. It's that half the time, people seem to start out with you already having decided they're guilty, and everything they say after just gets twisted to prove the conclusion you already came to. When you do that, there's no going back for you, no matter what.

I honestly don't think you make a bigger percentage of bad calls than any other admin, which is to say, they're going to happen, and if you are more active, yes, you will make more bad calls. But, when you make a bad call, you stick to your guns, lashing out at anyone who questions you. Furthermore, once that happens, those people are then added to the shitlist who are pre-judged guilty.

You say people call you a dick because you were mean after someone called you a dick. But, that's not true. What actually happens, is in between your runs of general good adminness, you act like a dick. Then someone calls you out. Then everyone else who went around this ride before jump back on for another round.

Lately people seem to have taken a different tactic, and are trying to be more reasonable about telling you what they see as being wrong. Your response, on the other hand, is just a vicious as ever.

People don't just gang up on you and HG because of some weird hate conspiracy. When other admins do something shitty, they get jumped all over too. Then typically, they give some sort of explanation, the community gradually de-freaks out, and everyone moves on. When you feed the fire by doing exactly what you're accused of, well.... you're being a dick.

Why do YOU think you are targeted so much more than other admins?

ThanatosRa · Post by **ThanatosRa** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:34 am #16199

I do need to comment that Brotemis' use of an obvious political caricature of President William Howard Taft terrifies me and makes me fear that he is going to Eat me. As President Taft would have.

dionysus24779 · Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:08 pm

I guess it's time that I vent a little as well about what seems to be one of the most controversial admins.

First I would like to start with the good though, though I must add right away that many of Brotemis good qualities are a double edged sword. I guess Brotemis biggest strength is that he is very harsh and strict and this just is what you need sometimes. Because yes, people can be incredible assholes, especially in this game. Though for the majority this isn't the case I feel. But there needs to be a balance between the "good cop" admins and the "bad cop admins" with Brotemis taking the role of the latter. It's a frustrating and reputation-killing service, but a needed one.

Also Brotemis can be pretty merciful, honestly the two times I had to directly deal with him (ingame via admin pms) I was pretty sure I was gonna get a ban, yet both times I didn't, which genuinly suprised me.

But the thing is that Brotemis seems to often jump the gun on forums. I don't have a long record of ban requests (which is good) but the very few times my name did come up Brotemis seemed pretty set from the get go. He declares something as banworthy or that he will ban someone before that person even had the chance to explain/defend him-/herself! In theory someone could make a ban request about a Silicon killing a human and Brotemis would jump the gun and ban him before that silicon could even explain how he was subverted or whatever. This just isn't fair.

The times I had to directly deal with Brotemis weren't very pleasant because his people skill kind of suck. Talking to him feels like you're guilty until you prove your innocence instead of just talking it through. Brotemis is also kind of bossy when it comes to silicons and their laws, deciding that his interpretation of a law is the one and only way to see it. He also comes across as pretty rude and unprofessional, I can relate to being frustrated, but sometimes you feel like there's no sense in even trying to explain yourself. It's like "Why am I even talking to you? You would ban me anyway, get me another admin." you know?

It doesn't feel like he tries to clears the situation, view both sides, tries to relate where the reasoning comes from, instead it feels like he's trying to get some sort of confession to justify a ban, dictating how to play the game and instantly siding with anyone who complains against the person who wronged them.

I know Brotemis can see reason, he has proven that to me, but I also think he has to broaden his horizon and try to see things from a different perspective, especially when it comes to silicons and their laws.

I don't want to have to check what admin is online and then ask Brotemis how I should react to a law. I also shouldn't have to justify fullfilling a valid order as a borg, etc. I know that playing silicon is considered "very hard", but for nearly two years I never had any problems until recently when it feels admins are breathing down my neck, especially Brotemis.

But to make this all a bit more constructive, here's what I would like Brotemis to improve on:

- Be a bit more professional and take emotions out of it, it's not fun feeling like you're interrogated by someone enraged with foam coming from their mouth. Insulting players also doesn't really accomplish much. Which does not mean he cannot or shouldn't bring up any frustration he feels.

- Investigate more and more neutrally, it may take up more time, but it's really important to really listen to both sides of the story and maybe get in some witnesses or people who are somehow involved, also when you do that make it clear that you're just investigating and that they're not in trouble. (Like, an admin once asked me if I knew how some plasma fire started and made it sound like he was suspecting I did it which lead to some confusion and me getting defensive about being accused of doing something when innocent.)

- Communication is key, give feedback to players you deal with. Especially when something is resolved or concluded, tell the players involved what the outcome is. It's frustrating if you wait for an admin to tell you what's going to happen now, only to finally ask and get a "Yeah it's resolved.".

- Try to understand the reason and logic behind someones action, especially silicons. If silicons get a non-standard law by whatever means which leaves room for interpretation and they reach a conclusion on how to approach the law or the AI explains what it means... try to follow that and if they act way out of line, give them a friendly warning, tell them their interpretation goes too far off or they interpret it in a way that isn't really possible. Of course this is easier said than done since it implies the admins have to always check the AI laws and most of the time the interpretations silicons reach are harmless anyway. Only when it goes somewhat wrong do admins get involved, and then it's just unfair to dictate what their laws mean and declare they've acted wrong since its only ever declared in hindsight.

These things kind of apply to all admins though, but I feel like Brotemis has to really work on this.

And I don't say any of this in ill will, just honest opinion and hopefully understood as constructive criticsm.

Stay strong and vigilant Brotemis.

Edit: Some quotes from others I have to strongly agree with.

MrStonedOne wrote:
There also seems to be an issue where once he gets it in his mind that a player is a shit, that opinion will color his judgement of the player to the point that seeming innocent actions will seem like shitty actions. This is more based on conduct in the old forum's fnr boards, so i can't provide any examples until someone can link me to a archive.

Basically, out of all of the admins, I fear getting a boink from bro the most, because his attitude makes me lose confidence in the fact that if I'm not being a dick, I shouldn't have to worry about getting in trouble. All it would take is him getting getting it in his head that im a shit, or him being a dick on a day where I don't have the patience to keep the conversion from escalating.

This relates to how I feel that someone is breathing down my neck lately when I never had much trouble for all the other time I'm already on this server.

Helios127 wrote:Most of your judgement calls favor the prosecutor, not the defense.

damiac wrote:...It's that half the time, people seem to start out with you already having decided they're guilty, and everything they say after just gets twisted to prove the conclusion you already came to. When you do that, there's no going back for you, no matter what.

Exactly how I feel being interrogated.

Brotemis · Post by **Brotemis** » Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:49 pm #17311

This is feedback worth reading, thanks.

I'll admit I don't particularly care for silicons when it comes to abusing laws. On the flip side of communication and getting both sides, the HOS was very upset because he had been tased and handcuffed and then dragged around and repeatedly slipped on banana peels. Something he wanted to prevent happening to everyone. If you happen to read the OOC chat later, he had determined he would not be coming back to the server because of this. Because you decided to interpret your "You are now 5 botanists" as an excuse to stun and cuff the HOS, who had done no harm, and had ordered you to release him and go on patrol. At no point did any of his orders conflict with your laws.

The thing to take away from this is that you acutely affected someone's round so much that there has to be a line drawn as to whats an acceptable interpretation and what isn't. I'll generally support whatever interpretation you have, but in this case, I don't think it is. Maybe that just me and I need a reality check and other admins disagree with me.

Edit: The HOS was also stripped of everything as well

dionysus24779 · Thu Jul 03, 2014 6:35 pm

Thanks for reading the feedback and liking it.

Though I didn't really wanted to discuss what "just" happened (which is why I tried to be non-specific.) and I don't wanna fill your feedback thread with a discussion about a particular decision.

But to give it a quick talk. As far as the engieborg and myself were concerned we weren't any borgs anymore, we played it like we were actually Botanists, that's why we spend the rest of the round in hydroponics with the other real botanists and acted like the other botanists (that is, being pretty laid back and not caring to join the wizard hunt). Whenever someone called us a borg or tried to order us around we explained that we aren't borgs, we were botanists and have plants to attend to. The AI didn't really say anything so in our consensus that's how we interpreted the law.

However I can see how one could argue that we were both botanists and borg, just as the real ones were both botanist and human, but since there're no actual borg-botanists we consindered ourselve humans like the other botanists.

So I do get what you're saying, but at the time that wasn't the consensus we had reached. Which in the end caused an unintended problem. When the HoS stormed in to arrest the botanist (who wasn't even the one throwing bananas around) I acted to protect my comrade from injustice, but I also see how I (even as a mere botanist) overstepped a line. That's why I merely threw the HoS out instead of something else. I understand that I (unintentionally) enabled the following abuse of the HoS by leaving him cuffed and vulnerable, however it wasn't me who stripped him down and dragged him over bananas etc.

As I once explained, I love playing borg and would never ever intentionally misinterpret my laws, ignore them or act in any malicious way on purpose. I would never risk getting a ban on one of my most favourite jobs for a quick grief and laugh. I want to be known as a reliable, robust and competent borg, putting dents in my own reputation isn't in my interest at all. So whenever I do a mistake as a borg it genuinly is a honest mistake.

As for the player claiming he will never come back... I'm not sure if I should even say it, but... on this server you do need a thick hide. I'm not saying being an asshole is allowed or justified in any way, but grief does happen but everyone (myself included) propably had their fair share of ultra-frustrating hair-pulling rounds that made them rage and genuinly upset. The whole situation that HoS had to experience wasn't okay, BUT it wasn't shrugged off as if it were okay, an Admin (you, Brotemis) did look into it, so what more can he ask for? If no admin would've cared about this taking place I could understand why he's frustrated at that, but this wasn't the case.
Also head roles are closed off to new players as far as I remember, so him being HoS means he had to have at least some experience with the server already and should know that shit happens. (which again, doesn't mean it's okay or justified.)

And of course it's not my intention to scare people away.

So... so much for this specific instance.

Edit:
The HoS propably complained to late and already after it had all happened, but how I would've liked to see this situation handled would be like:
Admin PM from Brotemis: Just a nudge, you may be a botanist, but you're still a borg, your laws still matter. Botanist being a job, borg/human being "race".
I would've instantly corrected my mistakes in behavior, though I admit that this is very easy to say in hindsight and this warning would've been necessary before things escalated for the HoS. With all the things going on at once it's hard to keep track of everything and babysitting silicons is unnecessary workload. (Though I hate it when people don't understand that in chaotic situations you can miss something, but I digress.)

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:41 am #17449

Brotemis wrote:As said before, if the idea is too radical for you then fuck you

C'mon man.
C'mon.

damiac · Post by **damiac** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:48 pm #20177

I just saw this in ban requests, and I must say, he definitely got this one right: http://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic. ... 987#p20167

Nice one Brotemis. Good work, way to go, and all that.

CreationPro · Post by **CreationPro** » Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:06 pm #20179

I think I've voiced it before but I'll say it again: harsh, sometimes rude, but doesn't tolerate shitlers, disposing of them with swiftness and brutality in a way that causes all forum warriors to spill tears.

I like his style.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:20 am #20393

I've actually witnessed an account of brotemis permabanning someone for 'metagaming' that was actually completely wrong apparently, so I think the 'swift brutality' might be misguided at times. In fact they don't even want to appeal it or have anything to do with /tg/ if admins are that hot headed, apparently, so he's not really a good example for new players as to the administration standards our servers have. Oh right, what standards?

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:35 am #20394

Could you cite this example please instead of just saying "someone" and "he". That just rings of un-specific and sniping.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:47 am #20396

I can put you in touch with them or tell you who it is if you want my information on the incident but they made a point to not return to the server after it and hearing that kind of made me bummed out. PM me if you want to discuss it further but I'm just sharing what I've observed about it, and if Brotemis does this more it really rubs me the wrong way more than his 'strict administration' does.

Brotemis · Post by **Brotemis** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:26 am #20409

Good to know you can't even cite it, let alone play on the same server. I'm calling bullshit on your "fact." I ,by the large, don't even deal with new players, but players who are here to grief or otherwise. More than half the time, those that are banned are not even currently playing on the server. I mostly use the database. I am good at what I do, make no mistake in that, but if you're going to throw the "bullshit" flag yourself, you had better back up your claims.

Pandarsenic · Post by **Pandarsenic** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:25 am #20413

I reallllly doubt Brotemis would make a wrong call on people metacommunicating (which is what I assume was meant).

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:52 pm #20478

It was on sybil, and I play there regularly brotemis. I know you have banned legitimate metagamers and people who ban evade which is something I love that admins regularly do outside of simple on the spot administrating, it takes extra dedication.

Like I said, I'm perfectly happy to talk it over with you because I'm interested in what you know, seeing as how you have access to the DB and all, but all I'm saying is that you made a poor judgement call from what I can tell, costing a new player a permaban. That's what I have a problem with, where your 'strict' attitude that everyone chokes on is kind of not as badass as you might think it is. Since neither niknak nor brotemis have PM'd me, I'll get on #banbus an tell any interested admin what I know, because it's pretty hilarious actually.

Pandarsenic · Post by **Pandarsenic** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:47 pm #20483

Okay, this is awkward. So after some digging around, I grabbed the 2014-07-13 logs. It looks like the person, while a TERRIBLE ERPer, was in fact caught for... wait for it... for saying they should move their ERP to Steam or Skype instead.

Spoiler:

I know this isn't the place for a ban appeal or log digging, but I figure it's as good a place as any and better than most to say that Paprika was or appears to be right about this once specifics came out. 2 of the 4 people have no notes and no apparent association with the others involved?

Oro Vento and the fourth musketeer, who wasn't even on the server presently, had notes about possible metacomms; Kyle and Tessa did not. Kyle and Tessa encountered each other that round, made lube grenades together, ERPed badly (and I mean badly...), tried to take it to another medium, and got banned for it, as far as I can see.

If Brotemis could provide more details, it might be enlightening.

Brotemis · Post by **Brotemis** » Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:45 pm #20514

I'm assuming maideninblack being the person who "contacted" paprika. Either way, you still have no idea what you're talking about in the least. All those involved had been suspected of metagaming with each other and had there was solid evidence pointing to it as well. All had been involves in griefing in some way, and elyina can attest to this. The two alive were being observed by the two dead and one's admission of metagaming is not enough to satisfy you? Get lost if you're going to bring nonspecific bullshit into feedback threads. I have no regrets or second guesses concerning these bans.
http://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=902

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 12:04 am #20515

It's pretty specific actually. Maiden was permabanned by association even though they're a new player and had nothing to do with this griefing 'metagroup'. At best they made a lube grenade and a permaban for that is pretty terrible administrating, especially since you didn't even question them about it or anything (even though the ban wasn't about that at all), just pm'd them really aggressively and permabanned them without telling them the situation. Didn't even bother to look at how new they were either, their account was like 4 days old.

Again, this has literally nothing to do with the other three, you put an innocent (at least of what you're accusing them of) new player in your crosshairs because you didn't bother to do any actual investigating and it's pretty shit considering they don't want anything to do with the server now. Is that really something you hold no regret for? I contacted maiden a day or so after a round I played with them on the pager, then they brought up how they were permabanned for ERPing. After some basic digging and questioning them (and then pandar looking into it further) I can see how you basically made a huge fuckup and now won't even admit you were wrong. Truly horrible dude.

If your overzealous administrating hits new players like this you need to take a fucking chill pill, that's my feedback for you.

Brotemis · Post by **Brotemis** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:16 am #20544

As I've said before, they were noted as griefing by Elyina before and had associated with the group before. That being said, if you ever feel like you were wrongly banned, make an appeal, go through the proper channels. If you can't be bothered to follow policy and procedure, then neither I, nor anyone else can help you. We're here to facilitate fun and enforce SOS' s rules. You don't play on the same server, let alone know this player. As far as I'm concerned, you aren't involved in this ban and can't make any sort of judgement call.

You need to chill out. Sometimes you say smart things and other times you're grasping for straws.

Pandarsenic · Post by **Pandarsenic** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:21 am #20545

TheMaidenInBlack had no notes prior to that incident though?

Brotemis · Post by **Brotemis** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 5:26 am #20546

That was noted by Elyina as well that there apparently was a note but it disappeared or was not properly placed. A key note that was removed from the logs was the ban reason which was along the lines of "Metagaming. Please explain on the forums in detail."

As of yet, Skipper is the only one to have made an appeal and even then, I simply said to come back in a week because I'm hesitant of lifting the ban, all things considered. Not an outright no.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:00 am #20557

Sometimes permabanning people when you have no evidence that they're involved with a metagaming group is pretty much cause enough for someone to not want to associate with a server. They don't want to appeal. They think you and the rest of the /tg/ administration are conclusion-jumping gmod server admins. And you know what? I'm inclined to believe them after this.

That's the biggest issue I have with this ban, the fact that even though yeah they can appeal 99% of the time when someone is permabanned as a new player they'll just go to a new server and that's your fuckup.

I see you're backpedaling and going w-well if the ban was wrong they can just appeal! and you simply won't admit the ban was wrong. Epic dude.

Edit: Where's this proof by the way? The proof elyina supposedly gave you. Or did you just do it by hearsay. This is completely sloppy administrating.

Post by **oranges** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:11 am #20569

Forgive me if I am wrong here, but is it not standard practice to issue a permaban that indicates the user should come and appeal on the forum for egregious activity that needs to be hashed out in a form that is more suitable than admin pm's?

If you are certain of your criticisms I believe an admin complaint would be a more suitable location for this discussion to continue. As an aside, do we need to consider a code addition for bans where a user is expected to come and make an appeal thread to hash things out that makes it much more clear what is expected?

Brotemis · Post by **Brotemis** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 3:20 pm #20596

Have I backpedaled at all? I don't have any second thoughts about the ban in the least. Either way, this discussion concerning the ban is over considering no appeal was ever made. And if they don't want to make an appeal, that's on them.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:29 pm #20619

Don't place shitty permabans instead when you have zero evidence. If you can't admit to that, yeah, the discussion is over, but no, you're not off the hook. Especially since you could have easily asked the person to explain in admin PM, but no, you accused them vaguely and immediately banned them without even telling them what they did wrong. How do you not think that's somehow bad administrating and think that forcing random new players to make a forum account when they haven't done anything wrong is okay? Even if you didn't know that at the time, it seems like you were trying to aggressively take out a group of metagamers (which is good) without actually bothering to do any real investigation.

Mass-permabanning a bunch of people and then letting possible wrong bans work themselves out in FNR is totally shit, I have yet to see another admin do this when they didn't have any evidence.

Besides, that's what admin PMs are for, so people can explain themselves, but if you want to add LAZINESS to the terrible wrong banning be my guest brotemis.

elyina · Post by **elyina** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:35 pm #20646

the TheMaidenInBlack account was less than 24 hours old at the time of the ban. I also warned them just before this for breaking into the armory and stealing from it as a nonantag (which might I remind you, you were the one that reported that) then they go on to associate themselves with this group of actual metagamers who had been shitting up the server for quite awhile (see the multiple ban requests against all 3 of them) and asks for their skype? if you actually believe anything they told you then I don't know what to tell you.

any other posts about TheMaidenInBlack in this thread will simply be deleted, this is essentially being used for stenography now. if they want to appeal they have that option available to them, if they'd rather pout about how we're too shitty to be worthy of their appeal they can do that too.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:54 pm #20650

They didn't steal from armory, I literally never said they did that. They broke into the sec gear room and were trying to deconstruct the windoor into the armory. I said it was shitty at best and something the admins should know about. You have no conclusive evidence towards this metagang association and the skype question was immediately associated with continuing ERP. Anyone doing any basic investigation could have found this out, which Pandar did, and neither you nor brotemis did. Lying and then saying "I'll forum mod you out if you disagree" is a really really shitty way to cover this up.

Also, let's not forget that they didn't associate themselves with a metagang, they erped with one of the 'members', which isn't worthy of a permaban at all. Did you look into matching IPs? Any normal investigation for when something looks fishy or is this just another example of lazy hamfisted administration?

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:28 pm #20653

paprika wrote:They didn't steal from armory, I literally never said they did that. They broke into the sec gear room and were trying to deconstruct the windoor into the armory.

All else aside, that's a straw if ever I saw one.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:45 pm #20655

I permabrigged them for trying, as I was the warden. It's stupid, sure, which is why I told an admin about it, but what does that have to do with them being associated with this metagang in the first place? I'm just trying to clear the record, not say that them attempting to break into the armory wasn't retarded. Doesn't implicate them as some super potential metagamer because it's something new players do rather often.

Besides, why would someone metagaming with a group ask for their skype, wouldn't they already have it? Pure idiocy all around.

iyaerP · Post by **iyaerP** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:08 pm #21548

Brotemis was hilarious in OOC today, and I was amused. Props to him for that.

allura · Post by **allura** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:42 pm #21567

brotemis is a cool guy, not a cool admin

Stickymayhem · Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:17 pm

Brotemis is a force that is absolutely needed on the server in my opinion. He will happily make the harder decisions and stand by them, and in the long run seems to have a very good judgement of people's motives on the spot.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:41 pm #21577

allura wrote:brotemis is a cool guy, not a cool admin

Basically this, but I can't think of an admin that isn't fun outside of being an admin or before they were admins, but that's not something that's going to change since it's a shitty job and they do it for free

Brotemis · Post by **Brotemis** » Sun Jul 27, 2014 4:27 am #21623

Hey man, that's just like, your opinion. Those that whine (re: not feedback, whine) about me tend be the most outspoken players or are otherwise what I would consider troublesome players. If it's not one thing, it's another, and every time the accusation that I am based against them or out to get them, or some of form of me being a shitmin, rather than players taking responsibility for their actions. I do admit mistakes and I try to make things fun for players. Anyone for the spooky rounds as of late can attest to that. It's an abstract sort of hell being an admin but I do enjoy it knowing I make a difference, big or small, in keeping a large majority of the population away from griff. The amount of permabans I have would probably horrify you and those I have dealt with would make you wonder why I do it.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:00 am #21658

I probably have more permabans than you brotemis.

tunderchief · Post by **tunderchief** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:45 am #22091

Brotemis 'event':

>mute OOC
>turn all the tiles Cult
>send multiple gibberish Centcomm announcements
>keep breaking the lights
>set off the nuke when he gets bored with being absolute shit at events, no one can complain because OOC is disabled

Brotemis · Post by **Brotemis** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:17 am #22100

Glad you enjoyed it, sperglord

iteq · Post by **iteq** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 7:29 pm #22150

Brotemis wrote:Glad you enjoyed it, sperglord

great response

i've also been muted from all channels for calling brotemis out for his shit events

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:48 pm #22172

I've been muted from all channels and then permabanned for calling him out you got off easy iteq

Spacemanspark · Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:27 pm

Everything except muting OOC and blowing up the nuke is acceptable, unfortunately.

Post by **ShizCalev** » Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:27 pm #22179

Brotemis is the hero /tg/station deserves.

tunderchief · Post by **tunderchief** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:26 am #22197

He ended the shitty event with 'THANKYOUFORDIEING'

Can't even spell 'dying' right but he sure has no problem badminning and arming the damned nuke.

Post by **ShizCalev** » Thu Jul 31, 2014 5:30 am #22211

People were toeing icky oocky. That's why OOC was muted :[