So, secborgs re-enabled anytime soon?

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:29 am #198935

Bottom post of the previous page:

paprika wrote:oh shit i killed this thread lmao

>not even a month passed
>dead
???

Aloraydrel · Post by **Aloraydrel** » Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:40 pm #198952

Sec borgs were a giant mistake

Gamarr · Post by **Gamarr** » Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:09 pm #198956

PKPenguin321 wrote:yes it can come down to that and often does, but it also often does not come down to that. think of shit like assistants disarming the HoS for his gun (cant disarm borgs), people straight up chasing down others with axes or swords (pretty much doesn't work with borgs, no slowdown from damage), fist fights in the bar, throwing spears -> catching spears -> throwing spears back -> spears embedding, etc

pretty much anything can happen with humans, even "do you have stun y/n", but with borgs it is ONLY "do you have stun y/n"

This is one of the major issues with borgs (and likewise, why I did not think holoparasites were a good addition either for similar logic) and agree.
Combat is Not always about stuns only; damage to limbs, bleeding, and other shit often comes into effect during a conflict, planned and not. Borgs don't have much of this and even outright ordering does not work as often as it should. So yes, the one that turns into Robo-Shitcurity can bug off.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:45 pm #198971

Maybe borgs should get the same damage slowdown humans get

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:59 am #199130

Just make bayborgs, getting damaged hurts their internals (which they can selectively depower to stop draining power as quickly, with the obvious disadvantage of not being able to use whatever it was) and these require a roboticist to slot in replacements.

The internal systems I remember were motors, integrated magboots, light, radio, and powered armour plating, but fuck if I know.

Incomptinence · Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:41 am

I have long been a proponent of a more complex cyborg damage model. There isn't really a design to how simply they take damage they are just very out of date.

Disarm obsession is ridiculous. It's RNG and shit as a mechanic anyway. I would rather pushes dealing stamina damage and having a threshold for item droping.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Thu Aug 04, 2016 6:06 pm #200790

I hate RNG as much as the next guy but disarm bullshit evens the playing field in a way that no other mechanic in ss13 does except slipping

captain sawrge · Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:01 pm

Aloraydrel wrote:Sec borgs were a giant mistake

Me too

A3STH3T1CS · Post by **A3STH3T1CS** » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:27 am #202173

How about now?
They re-enabled now?

Post by **oranges** » Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:24 am #202184

They're never going to be renabled.

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:35 am #202228

oranges wrote:They're never going to be renabled.

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Thu Aug 11, 2016 5:43 am #202246

Problem with secborgs is that sec is one of the biggest sources of harm barring antags and lavaland.

They're a living, non-living, positronic contradiction.

onleavedontatme · Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:28 am

Security borgs (who actually followed their laws) were basically the only force strong enough to stand up to an out of control murderous security team though. I do miss them for that.

Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:41 am

A3STH3T1CS wrote:How about now?
They re-enabled now?

necromancers please go

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:48 am #202252

Kor wrote:Security borgs (who actually followed their laws) were basically the only force strong enough to stand up to an out of control murderous security team though. I do miss them for that.

Drop bolts and unpower.

Proceed to ignore until you get lynched in the ai core

cry cybernetic tears as harm multiplies

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:06 am #202263

Short answer: no.

Long answer: nooooooooooooooooo.

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:19 am #202281

You're right, they aren't really good for sec. We should make a new borg with a lascanon and e-shield that has a sublaw permitting lethal force on anyone who hurts crew or damages the station

A3STH3T1CS · Post by **A3STH3T1CS** » Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:04 pm #202289

HOW ABOUT NOW

Reece · Post by **Reece** » Thu Aug 11, 2016 1:53 pm #202308

Funny thing is, I haven't ever wanted a sec borg since they've been gone. I was against them being removed on the grounds that I thought the people whining were little shitlords who couldn't bothered to go and get some of the readily available simple counters to them; but since they've been gone I haven't ever been in a situation and thought 'dam, I could really use a security borg right now' or 'dam, this would never have happened with a sec borg around' it's opened up more dynamic ways to be security (shitcurity or otherwise) and to fight against security. I can't just send a borg to haul a prisoner up to me when I feel like slothfully sitting in the office and eating doughnuts. There's a genuine risk/reward component to finding shitheads and arresting them.

At this stage I wouldn't mind if they were back in some form (like a borg ERT member, or a lavaland mob being an evil secborg who got lost), but I agree with the others that they probably shouldn't be in the game proper as a role for normal borgs.

Gun Hog · Post by **Gun Hog** » Fri Aug 12, 2016 12:07 pm #202719

Why bother making a poll if you are not going to respect the results?

PlaugeWalker · Sun Aug 14, 2016 3:24 am

Gun Hog wrote:Why bother making a poll if you are not going to respect the results?

This, respect it or remove peacekeeper as a whole.

dionysus24779 · Sun Aug 14, 2016 8:10 am

I agree as well, though I've already given up on this.

It was always an uphill battle. Secborgs were removed after a ridiculous short test-period with no time re-enabled after the test and now we can't even get a proper re-enabled test-period, closest I've seen was restricting Secborg to red-alert state... if it was at least blue-alert (the neutral default one) then it might be a compromise since on green-alert (when stuff is supposed to be safe and quiet) peacekeepers should be enough.

But whatever really, I think it has been made pretty clear how the game is managed.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sun Aug 14, 2016 9:14 am #203279

I could get a poll in favor of a lot more retarded shit than readding secborgs but that does not mean it will happen

Being passive-aggressive about it like a pubescent teen doesn't really get you anywhere but it does make me laugh

A3STH3T1CS · Post by **A3STH3T1CS** » Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:31 pm #203333

shut up paprika before I passive aggressive over your face

ShadowDimentio · Sun Aug 14, 2016 6:04 pm

Polls are only used when they fit the coder's agenda, like back when secborgs were removed every anti-silicon person threw out the one poll that just barely won saying more people (like ten) wanted secborgs removed, ignoring that there were two answers for wanting to keep secborgs and wanting to keep them with a nerf which when added together beat the removal votes by like 30.

Jacough · Post by **Jacough** » Sun Aug 14, 2016 6:27 pm #203339

TheNightingale wrote:Yes, you can disarm deathsquad pulse rifles easily. That's not a good thing.

Keep your distance when you're using your zappy gun instead of getting right in their faces where they can disarm you easily. Disarm is mostly fine as it is because it at least gives you somewhat of a chance of fighting back against someone who's got you significantly outgunned.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Aug 14, 2016 6:28 pm #203340

What if we just replace the entirety of security with a secborg team and make the brig a dual purpose AI chamber/harm containment facility.

oh wait wrong thread

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Sun Aug 14, 2016 6:33 pm #203341

Mackeral being a meme and shitposting in a thread, looks like nothing has changed

Danowar · Post by **Danowar** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:32 am #218975

Why not just enable the secborg module only when the Station's AI is given a certain lawset? In all honesty, its really hard to justify secborgs under Asimov. If you're truly following that lawset, there's not much you can really do when detaining potentially harmful humans, and keeping said humans from being harmed by sec. Under any other lawset, there's a little more leeway when it comes to harm and following orders, thus the module doesn't have to struggle as much to operate at its full potential.

TrustyGun · Post by **TrustyGun** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:50 am #218978

Secborgs were at their worst if they had any law other than aismov, though. You can't honestly tell me that powergaming secborgs under robocop is better because they have more "leeway".

Danowar · Post by **Danowar** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:48 am #218981

I'd rather have a borg blatantly exploiting another set of laws than to have it blatantly breaking Asimov constantly. I mean, don't get me wrong here. I love Asimov, but not many people fully grasp what it's all about. That's the only reason why I suggested using other lawsets with potentially-dangerous borg modules.

Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:54 am

I'd rather not have secborgs at all PS necromancers please exit

Lumbermancer · Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:51 am

Sec borg should be enabled on low-pop. I'm just sick and tired of all the mindless low-sec murderboner.

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 10:43 am #218991

PKPenguin321 wrote:I'd rather not have secborgs at all PS necromancers please exit

Given that your headmin promise is to keep secborgs out don't expect to get the popular vote

Sun Oct 16, 2016 3:40 pm

Davidchan wrote:
PKPenguin321 wrote:I'd rather not have secborgs at all PS necromancers please exit
Given that your headmin promise is to keep secborgs out don't expect to get the popular vote

More like don't expect the your vote PS vote me for headmin

ShadowDimentio · Sun Oct 16, 2016 4:20 pm

A vote for me is a vote to bring secborgs back.

Reece · Post by **Reece** » Sun Oct 16, 2016 6:03 pm #219040

Yeah...but it's also a vote for you.

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:54 am #219115

Still better than most of the others. Let that sink in

A3STH3T1CS · Post by **A3STH3T1CS** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:05 am #219133

Reece wrote:Yeah...but it's also a vote for you.

It could be worse, we could be voting for you

Reece · Post by **Reece** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:40 pm #219164

You make a compelling argument.

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:40 pm #219242

Why would I want to vote for someone who wants to bring secborgs back?

Removing secborg was the best thing that ever happened to silicons.

Arresting traitor's shouldn't be the silicon's job ever. Silicon's should be a neutral force unless harm occurs.

And valadining the AI so it could shit on antag's every round was horrible.

Aloraydrel · Post by **Aloraydrel** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:50 pm #219243

Once again

Sec borg was a mistake

lzimann · Post by **lzimann** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:59 pm #219246

Aloraydrel wrote:Once again

Sec borg was a mistake

Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:04 pm

lzimann wrote:
Aloraydrel wrote:Once again

Sec borg was a mistake

IcePacks · Post by **IcePacks** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:30 pm #219251

>necropost
>shilling ensues

good lord

CPTANT · Post by **CPTANT** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:31 pm #219252

Might I add that secborgs were a mistake?

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:35 pm #219253

I have an actual question. Anyone running on the "free secborgs" platform how do you plan on convincing one other headmin to back your idea?

ShadowDimentio · Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:56 pm

By pointing out that every server poll has resulted in players wanting secborgs back

cancer_engine · Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:32 pm

I consider myself an avid silicon-player, and I actually think that security borgs were always a bit of a sore thumb. They don't really feel "asimov" to me, whereas the peacekeeper borg completely is.
Also, everyone should just get more robust. Peacekeeper borgs are almost as effective as security borgs imo.

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:32 am #219336

cancer_engine wrote:I consider myself an avid silicon-player, and I actually think that security borgs were always a bit of a sore thumb. They don't really feel "asimov" to me, whereas the peacekeeper borg completely is.
Also, everyone should just get more robust. Peacekeeper borgs are almost as effective as security borgs imo.

Do not cause harm and prevent harm. Sec borgs are more asimov than medborgs, yet everyone considers those the go to. Sec borgs are designed with asimov in mind, their equipment was/is made to pacify threats and prevent further harm to both the crew and the individual(s) attempting to cause harm. Putting medkits doesn't prevent harm, it just makes it go away, and by our own server policy borgs aren't allowed to dwell on past harm.

But secborgs were only removed because of HG, so apparently you all really like his dick that much if you're still going on how much they shouldn't come back.

aranamor · Post by **aranamor** » Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:03 am #219367

Why did we unban Paprika?