Science is a restricted area (moonlighting is NOT OK)

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Bottom post of the previous page:

HOW TO RD:

1] Is anyone doing R&D, or have they all fucked off to make bombs and become changelings? If so, go to 2. Otherwise, go to 3.
2] Do R&D yourself, belittle anyone who says you're doing it inefficiently unless they're actually going to do it themselves.
3] Check if R&D needs any items your extended access / authoritah can help get, like Ai boards, stuff from secure storage, or combat shotguns
4] Wait. Have minerals arrived by 30 minutes? yes: go to 6 No: go to 5.
5] Politely ask mining if they're all dead
5.1] realise there is no mining, suicide / send the toxins researcher to do it
5.2] get yelled at by mining because they're on their way back with a gigatonne of loot
5.3] get yelled at by mining because they're hunting megamemes (but will still expect gear upgrades)
6] Send flunky to retrieve minerals. if flunky complains, do it yourself
6.1] Tell command that flunky is smashing up your department and get them demoted (optional shitter mode)
7] Make sweet loot.

At any time, someone not in a labcoat may enter your department! Follow these steps at once

1)ARE THEY A SECURITY OFFICER? IF SO, GIVE LOOT AND USHER OUT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, UNLESS THEY'RE ARRESTING YOUR FLUNKIES IN WHICH CASE THEY WILL LEAVE OF THEIR OWN ACCORD
2) DO THEY HAVE A WEAPON OUT? IF SO, RUN FOR YOUR OFFICE AND CALL SEC TO CONTINUE NEXT STEPS
3) Is their ID "Scientist"? If so, ask the HOP if he promoted someone to scientist. Call him a cockwaffle if he did.
4) Do they go straight to the console and start printing shit thats obviously not doing R&D? If so, telebaton them and throw them out. Ask, dickbisuits
5) Do they go to a department? if so, are they doing the job there or just hovering? If hovering, call sec. otherwise, tell them to get an ID change to scientist and call them a dongwrangler.
6) Do they just stand there in the hall? Tell security they're a traitor and see if they run away.
7) You have been killed by a changeling while consulting this list. Good work.

[Slignerd]

4) Do they go straight to the console and start printing? If so, telebaton them and throw them out. Ask, dickbisuits.

Thing is, won't asking more often than not get you denied outright? Especially when the RD that starts telebatoning you right away?

[FantasticFwoosh]

you had my support when you were saying that people shouldn't just break the fuck in and take jobs away from the people who signed up to do that job from the start but you lost it the moment your wrapped your grasping little fingers around everything with your screeching about how people shouldn't feel "entitled" to science giving them anything when giving other department's cool toys is literally science's job

it's bad when assistants TERK ER JERBS sure but you don't get to bitch about people taking your job if you're not going to do it

The issue is not that science feels like it shouldn't give things out. Its that miners roll up and scream at us regularly with DEMANDS of things they SHOULD have rather than ask what we do have politely. They are not willing to compromise and get aggressive when you dont fill out their goddamn Metasheet perfectly to the point they vandalise your windows with tools, assault your staff,barge in and take what they want with force.

A very good scientists gifts things or does things by request, as i've pointed out numerous times this pushy asshole attitude by people thinking they are entitled to free goods borders on the brink of decency in exploiting our goodwill.

[Alipheese]

To add. Jesus all I heard was one autist butthurt that he can't operate with retards in the way. WHICH IS LITERALLY WHAT THIS GAME IS ABOUT. Everyone else,

[Not-Dorsidarf]

4) Do they go straight to the console and start printing? If so, telebaton them and throw them out. Ask, dickbisuits.

Thing is, won't asking more often than not get you denied outright? Especially when the RD that starts telebatoning you right away?

You come to the window and say "Can I have X". If you're a miner, you shouldn't be in R&D unless a gigantic assload of minerals has come through courtesy of you and your teammates, and I make it my policy to always give miners loot that isn't BoH (MBoH are mandatory for miners though, obviously) or the expensive weapons.

And if they're following my guide on how to RD, R&D will at least be mostly done by the time you get there (unless you're the rare "hero-class" of miners who gets a little of everything and comes straight back), so you shouldn't need to wait long. If all else fails and the scientists/RD manning the console have their heads up their asses, get a job transfer, make your shit, and transfer back out.

If you're not a miner, don't ask for expensive stuff and get salty when the scientists says "We don't have the maerials mate go home".

---

On the other hand, a science department who won't give anything out to anyoneneeds to be stormed by security because they're either shitburglars or an antag base.

[Slignerd]

The issue is not that science feels like it shouldn't give things out. Its that miners roll up and scream at us regularly with DEMANDS of things they SHOULD have rather than ask what we do have politely. They are not willing to compromise and get aggressive when you dont fill out their goddamn Metasheet perfectly to the point they vandalise your windows with tools, assault your staff,barge in and take what they want with force.

A very good scientists gifts things or does things by request, as i've pointed out numerous times this pushy asshole attitude by people thinking they are entitled to free goods borders on the brink of decency in exploiting our goodwill.

You're free to telebaton anyone breaking windows and assaulting people, but when you telebaton people who actually contribute to research, or are there to print some stuff related to their work, you're just being shit.

[FantasticFwoosh]

> wanting to have admins act on simple tresspassing (not even breaking in, just the 'crime' of being there)
> claiming experimentor spawns meteors and pretend RnD is super dangerous, all in order to excuse telebatoning the shit out engineers who ask for welders, miners who get KA upgrades, and shutting down other crew that actually know what they're doing
> lashing out on people who are actually competent, using "muh OOC knowledge" as an argument against being competent, while on a server where the players are entirely free to know gameplay mechanics
> going "miners are not as valuable as they think they are", while most of RnD designs heavily rely on miners' minerals.

okay

> Admins act not so much necessarily but to help re-enforce to people who bitch, that science IS a restricted area and not a public space so naturally getting the crap beated out of/arrested and thrown out results in 0 sympathy, and its policy its not a public space, therefore tresspass is a crime.

> It literally does (its in the code, may-be reverted recently but its a good example of how dangerous it is with button presses and RNG spams, you're supposed to wear a rad-suit to combat how dangerous it is with blood drains, explosions, EMP's, toxic waste), but you miss the concept of asking at the desk where you are supposed to stand and queue politely instead of walking inside into a restricted area to help yourself which is the rudest and deserves a whack and summary kicking your ass outta there.

> If you want the job sign up at HOP and run it past RD, who should know what their staff are doing and make decisions on department staffing collectively with the HOP. As i mention before its the same group of people who try to meta-domineer the research and promptly shit on anybody different trying to learn the role by discouraging them (NAMELY YOU SLIG, for being inseperable from the R&D console on more than 1 occasion, you are the worst offender i am aware of as of the server during GMT usual hours), competency dont mean shit. Its not your job, if you want a lab go make your own where you are the boss of what you print off using tech boards, and promptly get lost.

> You're ignoring the fact that science can build ripleys and do it themselves without miner supplies, it just helps to have a pipeline of minerals, so if miners could stop acting like the goddamn pope for delivering helpful supplies and more of a humble mail-man without having their head shoved up thier own ass and wait patiently at the desk (in which its a IC problem if scientists are too busy to respond) or just ask cargo to disposal mail the goods to the R&D lab thats all FINE...

You know what? Dont even bother delivering the minerals in person, just mail them over disposals in a wrapped up locker and go out on your next shift, roll up to the science desk when they are ready in say about 4 minutes and not be a pretentious meta-sheet arse and politely ask "excuse me what mining designs do you have availible" and if they say none (the tech is not ready yet) or 'Im busy getting it up now come back in a while'

DONT DO THE FOLLOWING AND BE A DICK.

> Break our windoor (shitters galore abuse that shit) because that gives us good reason to slam the shutters on you and flush you down disposals/ summary vandalise any other doors and or windows
> Hack our front door/slip inside to tresspass
> Literally linger around wasting time until you get your request being annoying and persistent because ITS NOT LIKE YOU HAVE A JOB TO DO (using the perfectly fine starting tools you had for mining for a greater variety of minerals, also given that R&D has been re-worked and takes longer than 8:30 minutes to complete pre minerals)
> Verbally threaten science/beat up staff for working not to your standards or for whatever obtuse reason (there are pretentious science dicks out there) refuse your demands
> Push in to show 'MUH COMPETENCY" and do their job for them, if a scientist wants your help and doesn't want the help of the RD/other then they will ask or summarily allow you to offer to help, following up that, when you are done with your offer/request to help, without a additional foreword you should abandon the console and get back to work, not take over their job.

If miners follow the above guide, then science has no issue with their attitude and summarily giving them stuff. Same goes loosely for everyone else.

The issue is not that science feels like it shouldn't give things out. Its that miners roll up and scream at us regularly with DEMANDS of things they SHOULD have rather than ask what we do have politely. They are not willing to compromise and get aggressive when you dont fill out their goddamn Metasheet perfectly to the point they vandalise your windows with tools, assault your staff,barge in and take what they want with force.

A very good scientists gifts things or does things by request, as i've pointed out numerous times this pushy asshole attitude by people thinking they are entitled to free goods borders on the brink of decency in exploiting our goodwill.

You're free to telebaton anyone breaking windows and assaulting people, but when you telebaton people who actually contribute to research, or are there to print some stuff related to their work, you're just being shit.

You're being a ass doing this unless the scientist/RD in charge asks for your help, because you are stripping away the work experience of learning the role without having the RD take the tech levels onto a disk then delete the database as a instructional exercise (Which is wasteful but literally the only option you're giving me)

[NikNakFlak]

Moving this to ntr hut was the right decision

[Slignerd]

People don't like having to artificially waste their time. Going out of your way to ask every single thing without even seeing what's available wastes a lot of time - and so does going to the HoP's. Even then, you might often get denied just cause someone feels like shutting you down.

RnD is there to raise tech levels and deliver designs about as much as medbay is there to heal people, or mining to bring minerals to the station. If you want players who have no idea what they're doing figure stuff out, it's them who should have someone build a new RnD for them and then figure things out in their little kiddie corner, instead of dragging everyone down and keep them miserable by taking up a lab they're unable to efficiently operate in.

If doctors are shit at healing people, I'll try to heal a person on my own, instead of keeping the incompetent doctor's "working experience" intact. It's the same for science with me.

[Incomptinence]

CE should have a button to just cut off science from power.

Removing robotics from engineering was a mistake, still too uppity.

Hell have the captain get a button to eject research to derelict Z permanently since they so strong and independent don't need no station.

[FantasticFwoosh]

People don't like having to artificially waste their time. Going out of your way to ask every single thing without even seeing what's available wastes a lot of time - and so does going to the HoP's. Even then, you might often get denied just cause someone feels like shutting you down.

RnD is there to raise tech levels and deliver designs about as much as medbay is there to heal people, or mining to bring minerals on-station. If you want players who have no idea what they're doing figure stuff out, it's them who should have someone build a new RnD for them and then figure things out in their little kiddy corner, instead of keeping everyone miserable and take up a lab they're unable to efficiently operate in.

If doctors are shit at healing people, I'll try to heal a person on my own, instead of keeping the incompetent doctor's "working experience" intact. It's the same for science with me.

We have PDA's for personal messaging and bothering and kiddie corner doesn't teach anything. A lack of patience does not help, yes it does waste time to run up to the desk but there are multiple ways of long range communication you have. Station consoles (the green screens attached to department walls), comms, getting the AI to pass on messages, PDA etc.

I know from experience of looking over the shoulder of mekhi many moons ago, i never learnt anything unless he was out of the lab and even so he'd barge in to 'do my work for me' you need to understand to release the grip you hold and just let people learn how to play. You can push a guide and self edit a guide or whatever but people need to find their own methods slig. My personal setup is to use drone shells so i can totally ignore the obnoxious biological tech tree for easy access to a portable chem board and i found that out by myself.

You really ought to take up the kiddie lab idea on board, because when big meta-personality who know what you're doing like yourself sweep in, what are the less experienced scientists meant to do?

Toxins and testing lab are complicated and entirely RP driven due to having no real direction without a RD or command figure giving you a objective to carry out (RD says: "Test these grenades out and find a way to make them more effective/find a more effective bomb mix"/Put this corpse on the shooting range and determine how much damage it does/go explore space using this EVA access im giving you and bring back something interesting) Xenobio gets full quick with max personnel of 2 and robotics is its own little space, experimentor is more or less a 1 man job that relies on donations (or summary HOP moaning for more access) to go searching for strange objects.

The fine line between engineers and doctors is availability to facilities and materials, anybody can first-aid heal someone, but in such a system like baymed, they'd need a skilled surgeon to quickly take out the offending objects or do procedures (doctors often have too many cooks tending to the broth so they mill about or suicide) otherwise you can heal anything with first aid and usually a sleeper/portable chem.

I dont see it as the same, as all of science's core faculties are not like first aid, they are rooted down in 1 place (sure the cryochambers and genetics are also one of a kind but they aren't 100 percent nessecary to doing your job) comparably, anybody can cuck around with engineering sciences individually but only engineers are trusted to handle the fixtures of engineering and atmos mainly.

[Archie700]

The thing is that your argument only works IF people are willing to learn.

Most of the time I have not seen people but the usual do R&D. No new scientist asks to do it or askes for help.

[FantasticFwoosh]

The thing is that your argument only works IF people are willing to learn.

Most of the time I have not seen people but the usual do R&D. No new scientist asks to do it or askes for help.

Which is why i nurture my scientists as RD, because often RD's will take up the powerboning initiative to just overrule scientists as a multi-access omni-scientists 1 man army, alienating everyone. Whereas i constantly check in on my departments but leave them to it and ask if they need help, i usually have something else to be doing in the bigger picture, and collaborating with command/science as a whole.

If they dont want to learn or play science they should either accept they are antag or apply for a jobchange.

[Slignerd]

If they dont want to learn or play science they should either accept they are antag.

what

[FantasticFwoosh]

If they dont want to learn or play science they should either accept they are antag.

what

People who have just rolled antagonist/mulliganed and show no actual interest in doing work. Free license to griff using science tools and powergamers muscling in the work for them so they can emag and use the rewards.

[Screemonster]

CE should have a button to just cut off science from power.

port the substations and RCON consoles from bay/polaris

is hilarious when a department refuses to do anything for engineering because we're not giving them materials/chemicals/whatever and refuse to give/make stuff

KLUNK
SIT IN THE DARK THEN YOU SHITS

[Slignerd]

you can just cut the wires that lead to Science tbh

[InsaneHyena]

CE should have a button to just cut off science from power.

port the substations and RCON consoles from bay/polaris

is hilarious when a department refuses to do anything for engineering because we're not giving them materials/chemicals/whatever and refuse to give/make stuff

KLUNK
SIT IN THE DARK THEN YOU SHITS

Finally, a reason to use pacman generator,

[FantasticFwoosh]

CE should have a button to just cut off science from power.

port the substations and RCON consoles from bay/polaris

is hilarious when a department refuses to do anything for engineering because we're not giving them materials/chemicals/whatever and refuse to give/make stuff

KLUNK
SIT IN THE DARK THEN YOU SHITS

Finally, a reason to use pacman generator,

Science can manually just change batteries if they get a engineering access relevant to opening APC's, shut off external breaker and remember to replace every so often.

[Timbrewolf]

As head of the shed I approve of this annexation and praise NikNak's judgement in delivering this top quality thread to its rightful place.

[Screemonster]

CE should have a button to just cut off science from power.

port the substations and RCON consoles from bay/polaris

is hilarious when a department refuses to do anything for engineering because we're not giving them materials/chemicals/whatever and refuse to give/make stuff

KLUNK
SIT IN THE DARK THEN YOU SHITS

Finally, a reason to use pacman generator,

Science can manually just change batteries if they get a engineering access relevant to opening APC's, shut off external breaker and remember to replace every so often.

and then you get to sit there all smug as you "thwarted" the engineers by inconveniencing yourselves fucking around with access and power cells and god knows what else while engineering aren't inconvenienced in the slightest

gg

[Bolien]

Moving this to ntr hut was the right decision

[FantasticFwoosh]

CE should have a button to just cut off science from power.

port the substations and RCON consoles from bay/polaris

is hilarious when a department refuses to do anything for engineering because we're not giving them materials/chemicals/whatever and refuse to give/make stuff

KLUNK
SIT IN THE DARK THEN YOU SHITS

Finally, a reason to use pacman generator,

Science can manually just change batteries if they get a engineering access relevant to opening APC's, shut off external breaker and remember to replace every so often.

and then you get to sit there all smug as you "thwarted" the engineers by inconveniencing yourselves fucking around with access and power cells and god knows what else while engineering aren't inconvenienced in the slightest

gg

RD calls the captain, captain swipes the apc, R&D just replaces the batteries periodically, for no sheet or dangerous machinery cost, like what?

[Screemonster]

or maybe

you could not be a cuck

[FantasticFwoosh]

or maybe

you could not be a cuck

What comes around goes around.

EVERYONE VS ENFORCMENT OF SCIENCE WHEN PULLED UP ABOUT ALL OF THE LISTED ISSUES
[youtube]LzEOHNmfa_0[/youtube]

[Timbrewolf]

Im going to love hearing about the spike in break-ins to science this thread caused.

[TheColdTurtle]

>implying anyone here plays the game

Good one

[Saegrimr]

Ever since I got the ability to reply to adminhelps directly from IRC i've had even less reasons to log in.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Ever since I got the ability to reply to adminhelps directly from IRC i've had even less reasons to log in.

Its saddening to see admins just phase out of active play. Not long ago we had a ash-drake rampage on the shuttle in which numerous people were gibbed and murdered while a game-master just watched. I had to bitch on the IRC because no enforcement happened over it at all just to get kor (who is probably the person you want to speak to when admins are being shit) attention, i guess IRC moderators just instantly dismiss ahelps sent out like regular occurrences.

I guess it doesn't matter, in this recent griff-fest in which no rules seem to apply because all the admins micro from IRC, so i can just telescopic baton every department invader i see to death/crit. Okay then, okay dokey. wew

[Saegrimr]

Boy now THAT'S a fucking leap of logic. wew

[Wyzack]

I really think the shittery is gonna calm down a bit now that the servers are no longer on the hub and we can weed the good players out of the accumulated garbage

[Timbrewolf]

I never thought I'd see the day where someone complained that Saegrimr wasnt active enough.

#wow #whoa

[Not-Dorsidarf]

This thread is mostly a battle between a REE MY SCIENCE IS SOVEREIGN NATION moron and a REE I DONT WANT TO TALK TALKING LEAVES ME VULNERABLE moron

[Slignerd]

Come on, I'm sure I'm not that bad.

[FantasticFwoosh]

This thread is mostly a battle between a REE MY SCIENCE IS SOVEREIGN NATION moron and a REE I DONT WANT TO TALK TALKING LEAVES ME VULNERABLE moron

Maybe i am overzealous over science, but unlike you i actually have enthusiasm and plans for my roles as RD on what i want to set out to achieve each new round that feeds my fervor.

[TehSteveo]

I think this thread is why I don't bother with science as much anymore.

[Screemonster]

tbh dorisdorf has it right

people shouldn't break in to get stuff from either science or cargo
people shouldn't HAVE to break in to get stuff from either science or cargo if what they're after is reasonable

if a miner brings you a bunch of shit and asks for an upgrade just give him the upgrade and he'll go away and you'll never have to worry about him being in your department again 'cause he'll be off elsewhere fighting legion or some shit, either way he's not in science any more and no longer your problem

it's like tiders who get sec on their case and then flee into maintenance or hide in space or run to the ruskie station or hole up somewhere to avoid arrest and you never see them again, the problem has solved itself

[Jacough]

When inevitably mining stop being pushy assholes, science will ease off and we'll stop being stubborn assholes, and assholes the world round will lock hands and things will be fine. We both have some serious cultural issues that need correcting.

It bugs the shit out of me when people refer to their department like it's some kind of independent nation

[BeeSting12]

Maybe if everyone decided to *gasp* not be a dick and give someone their simple request, this wouldn't be a problem. A miner has to deliver 3k points worth of materials and he's done his job. The least you can do is give them KA upgrades. I keep hearing about how miners don't deserve rewards nor gratefulness from science for doing their job, but science's job is to share their new upgraded stuff with the crew, and you have to either walk in and do it yourself or beg for it to get these upgrades. (Thanks to the proactive scientists that do this stuff themselves.)
If you're too busy to fulfill their request, then the person should be able to break in and do it themselves. If you deny an unreasonable request and they break in, you have every reason to kick them out. If they don't ask, then kick them out. You said it yourself, its an IC issue. Which does not need to be a policy discussion and belongs right where it is. Honestly, why is this a thread when you can just boot the person out and explain it to the admins.

[TechnoAlchemist]

this reminds me of the argument I was having with someone that was "roleplaying" a borg with no voice module that only beeped and booped and emoted and people liked this borg and thought they were a fun robot to play around with

until someone ordered it to tell them its laws

from the borg player's point of view it was terrible that people were stomping on THEIR CHARACTER and blahblahblah so biased so terrible so unfair most of the players that this borg runs into love its gimmick and so on and so forth, but on the other hand come on man you can't "muh rp" your way out of law 2

If you're role playing a Borg without a voice module and someone asks you to state your laws it seems okay to not do it, I've done a similiar gimmick as AI plenty of times and people liked it and I did not get bwoinked

[ThanatosRa]

In those rare times I play I'm just going to stick to robotics, jesus.

[Screemonster]

this reminds me of the argument I was having with someone that was "roleplaying" a borg with no voice module that only beeped and booped and emoted and people liked this borg and thought they were a fun robot to play around with

until someone ordered it to tell them its laws

from the borg player's point of view it was terrible that people were stomping on THEIR CHARACTER and blahblahblah so biased so terrible so unfair most of the players that this borg runs into love its gimmick and so on and so forth, but on the other hand come on man you can't "muh rp" your way out of law 2

If you're role playing a Borg without a voice module and someone asks you to state your laws it seems okay to not do it, I've done a similiar gimmick as AI plenty of times and people liked it and I did not get bwoinked

it's more that the reason they got asked to state laws in the first place was that someone ordered them to fuck off because they were in the way and they did not fuck off

but muh arrpee

[Sidon]

Im going to love hearing about the spike in break-ins to science this thread caused.

just as planned

[ThanatosRa]

this cancer is terminal and in the prostate

[Takeguru]

>Mining deserves nothing

And this is why Golems are the best thing to spawn on Lavaland, they're bro-tier with miners all the time

[Incomptinence]

I CAN GET MINERALS FROM THE ORM THEY JUST APPEAR THERE ON THEIR OWN!

[Timbrewolf]

If we can organize some sort of in-game event where we drag Fwoosh kicking and screaming out of Science then flog him publicly in the halls I will actually play this fucking game again just to attend it

[Archie700]

This thread is mostly a battle between a REE MY SCIENCE IS SOVEREIGN NATION moron and a REE I DONT WANT TO TALK TALKING LEAVES ME VULNERABLE moron

More like REE MY SCIENCE IS SOVEREIGN NATION moron vs everyone else.

[Skorvold]

i totally agree and made a response video here https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=7781

[Jacough]

If we can organize some sort of in-game event where we drag Fwoosh kicking and screaming out of Science then flog him publicly in the halls I will actually play this fucking game again just to attend it

The coalition of Cargonia and Enginia formerly denounces the People's Republic of Science and work together to produce arms for the people of SS13 to rise up and rebel against the Science dictatorship for freedom of technology for all.

[PKPenguin321]

If we can organize some sort of in-game event where we drag Fwoosh kicking and screaming out of Science then flog him publicly in the halls I will actually play this fucking game again just to attend it

this, please allow us to do this some time
it wouldnt even be hard just wait for fwoosh to be the RD then make everybody but him a traitor with the objective to free science