Purposely trying to end rounds earlier because deadchat/slow

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:07 pm #197445

Discuss admins purposely spawning Ops, rods, meteors, aliens, 9 yards ect on purpose because of "im ded plz revive".

Personally, this is something I despise because it promotes people to die/not care for the round/not contribute because they're unofficially promised a free antag role if they complain hard enough.

Some cases, players actually use this as a double antag role if they're unable to get antag. This is blatently unfair on players that like to play a round, like to contribute to the round, and want the round to go on normally.

It isn't fair that players that play the round and do good have to have their gameplay suffer because of others that don't want to play if they're not antag/the gamemode they desire.

And it's especially not fair to those that play for full rounds and have all their progress and buildup cut short because of a triggerhappy admin. This is the reason why people don't like playing jobs that have progression because the round resets too quickly.
Why even have these jobs if you're never going to play it to it's fullest?

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Thu Jul 21, 2016 9:10 pm #197446

It's not just you playing the fucking game so deal with it.

Reece · Post by **Reece** » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:12 pm #197459

Zilenan91 wrote:It's not just you playing the fucking game so deal with it.

Pretty much summarises both ends of the issue. It sucks to be dead, also sucks to have a perfectly good round blown off at the knees.

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:15 pm #197460

Sucks to be dead, but sucks more when you try not to die only to have some spiteful dead person pull you down.

Dead need to gitgud and stop dying.

TechnoAlchemist · Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:54 pm

you could also say that the living should also get good and stop dying i mean you are complaining about it being too hard to survive

Bombadil · Post by **Bombadil** » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:09 pm #197482

They totally fucking deserved it one round. It was monkey mode and half the station was dead but they kept recallign because WE ALMOST HAVE THE VACCINE!

onleavedontatme · Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:08 am

Zilenan91 wrote:It's not just you playing the fucking game so deal with it.

I don't think the people who lost in a game (or maybe didn't play at all because they didn't get antag) should be able to collectively vote to flip the table on the people still playing though.

I mean obviously there are situations that warrant admin intervention, like a single person has killed everyone and won't call the shuttles, so it's hard to write strict guidelines for such a thing.

lollerderby · Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:11 am

You generally shouldn't listen to deadchat whinging because of course someone with zero investment in the round who gets to watch everything fucking explode and roll for half a dozen midround antags is going to want buttons, but sometimes when most of the server is irrecoverably dead and a handful of autists want to keep fucking around in science or w/e, you gotta realize other people besides you are on the server.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:15 am #197505

The round was going on for an hour at that point so it was time to pack it up.

Post by **MMMiracles** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:28 am #197508

Zilenan91 wrote:The round was going on for an hour at that point so it was time to pack it up.

This mindset saddens me.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:30 am #197510

What are you going to do past 40 minutes though. RnD is the worst thing ever because you sit in a room, press buttons, and stuff falls out. Past that there's nothing to use this stuff you made on so if you extend the round past that it's just a bunch of people jacking off with no conflict or anything going on while everybody who's dead just sits there.

lollerderby · Post by **lollerderby** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:08 am #197524

You can create some conflict without nuking everything.

TheNightingale · Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:26 am

You can create fun without conflict.

Super Aggro Crag · Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:35 am

if you're fucking bored because you didn't get antag and suicided at round start and the round didn't immediately devolve into murderboneshuttlecall so you cry to the fucking admins to spawn you as a deathsquid or blow up the station, you are a big piece of shit. there's two fucking servers. if you die on one and get bored and want to play and can't wait for the round to end, here's afucking idea, go on the other one, you stupid fucking cock.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:51 am #197548

If antags don't do things most rounds just devolve into me standing around doing nothing and begging for the shuttle to get called because nothing is happening.

Screemonster · Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:52 am

I can't find a fault in what Crag is suggesting.

TankNut · Post by **TankNut** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:03 am #197555

If you die, why not join the other server we have and play over there while you wait for the round to end?

Also not everything you do in a round depends on progression. If you think a round is going to last a while then find something to do. Go and learn something new or try and make your project a thing. Heck I've enjoyed 2 hour long rounds more than the 30 minute clusterfucks which seem to be the norm these days.

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:15 am #197569

Zilenan91 wrote:If antags don't do things most rounds just devolve into me standing around doing nothing and begging for the shuttle to get called because nothing is happening.

If nothing is happening, make something happen for yourself.

Think of the round like a cake. It's a cake made from a little bit of everyone. Just because you don't like the flavour isn't entitlement to force the cake to be under cooked, likewise admins should try to prevent the cake from being overcooked.
You're given the right to influence the flavour of the cake to your liking, but not as much as an antag.

I enjoy long baked cakes of progressive round. Doesn't have to be all action all the time, just that perfect mix of ongoing action and things happening spread over time.

IkeTG · Post by **IkeTG** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:22 am #197570

Zilenan91 wrote:If antags don't do things most rounds just devolve into me standing around doing nothing and begging for the shuttle to get called because nothing is happening.

What jobs do you usually play?

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:52 am #197579

If the cake gets old and moldy I just throw it out with the bathwater and bake a new one that's fresh

What I mean by that is that rounds shouldn't go past 40 minutes, the game isn't meant to go that long.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:55 am #197581

-quote guy with two notes about repeatedly suiciding at roundstart when not antag

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:05 am #197584

Oh yeah the notes I got how long ago now?

Screemonster · Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:32 am

This is another one of those arguments that boils down to "OTHER PEOPLE ARE EXPERIENCING ENJOYMENT INCORRECTLY"

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:34 am #197593

pretty much. Them enjoying the game makes a greater number of people not enjoy it.

Post by **oranges** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:50 am #197594

It's time to stop posting man

Post by **Shaps-cloud** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:02 am #197596

Zilenan91 wrote:Oh yeah the notes I got how long ago now?

oh that's right you haven't even connected for a full month now

why do you still post

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:08 am #197599

life got in the way

Last time I connected I was pretty active if I remember right

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:12 am #197600

alright so I'm gonna dispel this meme of "rounds only lasting an hour is bad"

you know how players get super pissed about losing in games like MOBAs and comp. matchmaking for CS:GO

this is because of the large time investment becoming effectively no gain

the dead people wasted their time because they got killed and the people who survived didnt

the people who design this game do not design the core gameplay mechanics and code for it to be 3 hour roleplay on a space station

we design it to be 30 minutes to 1 hour survival-fests on a chaotic clusterfuck of a station

you guys constantly make threads complaining about how short round times are and how we should fix it because the players "prefer" longer rounds

separation of codebase and server isn't just a meme, it's the reason these problems keep happening

and the solution is to stop trying to use /tg/station code like Bay12 roleplay code

if you want longer roundtimes and things built around roleplaying, talk to your Host for the server about switching to baycode or a codebase where they actually design for roleplay over gameplay, instead of trying to force it on a codebase designed for gameplay over roleplay

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:15 am #197601

A lot of the problems of how people think the game should be played is because there's zero direction in how the game is being developed and the people in charge are really just ensuring they stay in charge to keep the project alive. Nobody is doing anything but putting things in the game they like.

/tg/ is just a melting pot of mechanics that don't work, aren't fun, and for some reason people enjoy it. I never really enjoyed it either. I was just intrigued as to how the game came to exist as it was and it's always been a big mess.

This is why you don't see people in Counter Strike or Starcraft complaining about how long rounds go or why nobody will roleplay with them, because that's not what those games are about. The difference between them and /tg/ is that nobody is in charge that can tell them otherwise.

Screemonster · Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:25 am

iamgoofball wrote: separation of codebase and server isn't just a meme, it's the reason these problems keep happening

nice of you to finally admit that coders deciding to steamroll the game in a particular direction regardless of what the playerbase wants causes problems

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:33 am #197608

nice to show you didn't read the post or the actual reason the problem exists in the first place

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:34 am #197609

we aren't going to recode the game every time the playerbase switches between preferring gameplay over roleplay/roleplay over gameplay

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:37 am #197610

Unless someone turns /tg/ closed source or locks down development only to people who actually want to make the game not a mess anymore it'll never be fixed. /tg/ will always just sit like it is and lurch unsteadily in one direction and then take 3 steps back because nobody is willing to put in the work to make the experience focused enough that these complaints wouldn't exist.

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:40 am #197611

we actually do as a majority code for gameplay over roleplay, you just say that we're broken and a failing codebase because we don't line up with your personal views

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:43 am #197612

I'm not saying /tg/ is failed at all. I'm just saying a lot of it is a mess of themes and mechanics because enough people haven't come together to put in the work to make it more focused into being an actual game. This is why roleplay is a thing in SS13. People originally started doing it because the game was bad enough that it was the only way to enjoy it. The game isn't as bad as it used to be, but the roleplay people have still stuck around because it isn't at all focused on what it wants to be so they never left.

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:48 am #197613

it is an actual game

it's the most played game on BYOND

the codebase does focus on making the game a round based "survive on the station against the bad guys" action game

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:00 am #197619

Of course it does. But there's so many different ways people are making /tg/ into that concept. People at one point lauded that they made the game full of Paranoia. Nowadays it's the exact opposite.

More recently, Kor added lavaland and you've probably seen people crying about how they hate some of the things lavaland does, about how they don't like ashwalkers or how easy it is to die or how rare it is for miners to bring minerals or how miner slots were ALWAYS full. Complaints about how the game should be about the station not a lava planet full of demons. The people who have worked on /tg/ haven't ever had a sit down, made plans, and decided what direction they want the game to go. Because of this, they've gone in different directions. Some have left, leaving these threads that will never be finished and detracting from the focus of the game due to the sheer amount of development that was put into them.

Cult is an example of this. It's horrible. It's always been horrible because the guy who was making it never finished it. After he left someone else decided to finish it but they never really stuck with the design that the person was putting into it in the first place. This caused it to be an unfocused mess and because of that it let people question everything about it, inviting change after change after change to "fix" something that will never work. It's a cancer sitting in the code that nobody has cut out.

Gang is a shining example of design focus. For as long as it's existed, Gang has been good enough that the only person who has ever added anything of significance to it is the original creator. It has never had a single major content patch or redesign since it was released. The reason for this is because Ikarrus designed it in such a way that the mode flows logically and in a fun way. It's not like Cult which has had a billion people working on it over 10 years all with different or no goals, focus is the single most important thing you can put in a game because it dictates how everything works and is treated by the player. It's only recently that people have begun to dislike Gang, and that's not the fault of the mode in any way, it's just that people have gotten tired of it after playing hundreds upon hundreds of rounds. It's eventual that someone does something about it and only time will tell if it's good or not because the people in charge refuse to make and stick to plans.

Hibbles · Post by **Hibbles** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:41 pm #197761

You're seriously complaining now that our community is diverse, with a ton of perspectives on how things should go, and begging for one person to impose their Vision on everyone else and just Tell them how it is?

Go away.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:54 pm #197767

No? This is just how the game is. If I was complaining I'd try and find ways to fix it. I'm not really sure if it even does need fixing.

Hibbles · Post by **Hibbles** » Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:34 pm #197798

Oh, then fair enough.

iamgoofball · Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:49 pm

no, you're complaining, I'm surprised HBL fell for that

iamgoofball wrote:we actually do as a majority code for gameplay over roleplay, you just say that we're broken and a failing codebase because we don't line up with your personal views

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:17 am #197871

To be fair I wrote that wall of text at like 2:00 AM so I wasn't too lucid

John_Oxford · Post by **John_Oxford** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:42 am #197905

>implying you would rather play 15 minute rounds that consist of nothing but combating the round's antag when theres literally HARD CODED FEATURES that take TIME to develop.

you can't max out science in 15 minutes
you cant build a durand in 15 minutes
you can't build a autism fort to the likes of which has never been seen in medbay in 15 minutes
you can't sacrafice all the animals on the station to the god of memes in 15 minutes
you can't upgrade the bar to be a disco multibar with 4 bartenders in 15 minutes
you can't fly out into space and repair the white ship in 15 minutes
you can't repair the derilect in 15 minutes
you can't reinforce the brig in 15 minutes
you can't build the soon to be pulse destroyer minigun with heat seeking pulses in 15 minutes.

you can die and complain to the admins about it in less than a minute, however.
that's bad design, because everyone knows the admins are to "ree i need dah sopourt of dah playurs" to decline deadchat bitching.

there's gotta be balance, it can't be all roleplay, and it can't all be gameplay. i literally bet you 300,000 USD that no one in the entire playerbase wants nothing but game play, or nothing but roleplay. because both of them are extremely aids.

all in all, fix your shit admins, no one likes you mashing your keyboard because theres 8 salty autists in deadchat who died to a bomb in medbay and now want you to make them chao's carps

Post by **Archie700** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:45 pm #197945

Why do we even take Zilenan seriously, especially with this:

This is why you don't see people in Counter Strike or Starcraft complaining about how long rounds go or why nobody will roleplay with them, because that's not what those games are about. The difference between them and /tg/ is that nobody is in charge that can tell them otherwise.

TechnoAlchemist · Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:10 pm

If we disregarded people's opinions because they occasionally said things that are dumb or wrong I wouldn't consider anyone's opinions.

Davidchan · Post by **Davidchan** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:37 pm #197993

ITT Nobody can have fun until I'm having fun.

Jacough · Post by **Jacough** » Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:39 pm #198005

John_Oxford wrote:>implying you would rather play 15 minute rounds that consist of nothing but combating the round's antag when theres literally HARD CODED FEATURES that take TIME to develop.

you can't max out science in 15 minutes
you cant build a durand in 15 minutes
you can't build a autism fort to the likes of which has never been seen in medbay in 15 minutes
you can't sacrafice all the animals on the station to the god of memes in 15 minutes
you can't upgrade the bar to be a disco multibar with 4 bartenders in 15 minutes
you can't fly out into space and repair the white ship in 15 minutes
you can't repair the derilect in 15 minutes
you can't reinforce the brig in 15 minutes
you can't build the soon to be pulse destroyer minigun with heat seeking pulses in 15 minutes.

you can die and complain to the admins about it in less than a minute, however.
that's bad design, because everyone knows the admins are to "ree i need dah sopourt of dah playurs" to decline deadchat bitching.

there's gotta be balance, it can't be all roleplay, and it can't all be gameplay. i literally bet you 300,000 USD that no one in the entire playerbase wants nothing but game play, or nothing but roleplay. because both of them are extremely aids.

all in all, fix your shit admins, no one likes you mashing your keyboard because theres 8 salty autists in deadchat who died to a bomb in medbay and now want you to make them chao's carps

Deal, give me my money now.

Post by **oranges** » Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:16 am #198322

you just kept posting man, you just kept posting