[Sawucalls] Political censorship over OOC, muting

ohnopigeons · Post by **ohnopigeons** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 7:42 pm #186544

An entirely separate conversation and incident, I am making this complaint because people won't stop commenting in my previous complaint thread over this unrelated conversation, especially when admins/forum moderators/people of administrative note start doing it too, discussing it as if it were the main focal point of the complaint. I'm slightly annoyed but maybe people have a lot of strong feelings about the matter they'd like to discuss and share, which explains why they won't stop.

Technically Sawucalls himself brought up the subject and the log, as if it somehow justifies his behavior or otherwise relevant to the other complaint. However, seeing as no one else has bothered to explain and justify its relevancy, and the fact I just flat-out don't see any possible explanation/justification no matter what angle you argue from, I'll admittedly be jumping the gun on that judgement.
Edit: MSO himself has decreed the orlando shooting conversation to be off topic from the other AC, and has graced this AC with his permission.

Byond account: Ohnopigeons
Admin: Sawucalls
Time incident occurred: Sybil, June 12, 19:31 server time

Basically, conversation about the Orlando shooting starts off (with a joke). People start talking about it and Sawucalls says to "calm the edge". A not-too-unreasonable request/bantz/meme.
Then, out of the blue, he starts threatening to mute, a rather serious administrative action that goes in complete contrast to his previous casual/meme language tone. I, being incredulous, start questioning him, where I am instead immediately met with a mute. Like immediately immediate, 10 seconds after.

I don't know who else was muted, but it's pretty clear (at least to me) he did out of his own personal political beliefs, and his desire to enforce it on OOC, rather than out of consideration for the playerbase's wellbeing.

Logs, from the start of the conversation to the point where I was unmuted:

Spoiler:

From the previous thread:

sawukoa wrote:I'm just going to point at that 20 minutes before hand, a multitude of people had been warned for shitting up IC with their edgy jokes about the recent nightclub shooting, you included, and you were not the only one muted.

Racism, Bigotry and assorted shitposting from a variety of people, and multiple people were issued mutes as a result. OOC is not the place to spread intolerant, hateful bullshit.

Now, I have a rather hard time figuring out which of my comments qualifies as racist, bigoted, or even an assorted shitpost. I have posted my OOCs below, all 6 lines consisting of 29 words, in big font, so that maybe someone can inspire an explanation because I can't.
[list]
[19:32:28]OOC: Micks Tape/Ohnopigeons : That's just what LEddit does
[19:32:36]OOC: Micks Tape/Ohnopigeons : I don't know why anyone expects differently
[19:32:53]OOC: Micks Tape/Ohnopigeons : A MUSLIM WALKS INTO A GAY BAR
[19:33:35]OOC: Micks Tape/Ohnopigeons : >warning
[19:33:39]OOC: Micks Tape/Ohnopigeons : What the fuck
[19:33:54]OOC: Micks Tape/Ohnopigeons : Sawu are you literally from reddit
[19:34:05]ADMIN: Sawucalls/(Jaydon Woollard) has muted ohnopigeons/(Micks Tape) from OOC
[/list]
The only thing that I have that is anywhere remotely close to an answer is my [19:32:53] comment, which still doesn't make sense because that would imply I was muted for stating a concept of a muslim in a gay bar.

Edit: Appended HG's conversation start

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:41 pm #186584

OOC is not a right, it is a privilege. Space Station 13 is a 2D spaceman validhunting simulator, not a political forum. If you want to talk politics, allow me to direct you to literally the rest of the internet.

Not-Dorsidarf · Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:49 pm

But it wasn't politics, it was an offensive joke.

I can understand disabling OOC if people were doing nothing -but- shit it up with this stuff but srsly.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 9:59 pm #186587

You really call that offensive?

Christ. TRIGGER WARNING

TheNightingale · Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:03 pm

There's "bantz", and then there's joking about a mass murder that happened less than 48 hours ago. Too soon.

Post by **oranges** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:08 pm #186592

Not everyone lives in america and or have higher tolerances for black humour.

You can certainly get offended at someone for making the joke, but then forcing your personal viewpoint on others via administrative action is just terrible.

You can argue that the ooc wasn't even at the point where it was disruptive to the round.

Falamazeer · Post by **Falamazeer** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:35 pm #186598

Oh look, MSOs post with all those details from an IRC log of sawu making horrible racist humor is gone, wherin he implies genocide of the black race is the only reasonable answer to future music or some such bullshit, and in general set out to be as offensive as possible.

It was obviously shock humor to be fair, and I can appreciate that, but it really nicely showed the hypocracy in this situation. on the internet, we're all assholes.

Edit: I'm noit trying to cloud the issue by saying he's a racist facist non-PC douchebag either, which is probably why the post was deleted, My point is, this is censorship of shock humor, which is something sawu apparently partakes in as well as myself, points to the hipocracy inherant in sawus muting and general douchebaggery. and while the logs themselves may paint sawu in a terrible light, and thus removed from the discussion, the mere fact that he's also said equally if not more so deplorable things for seemingly the fuck of it should be noted.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:53 pm #186601

IRC is separate from OOC so I'm not sure why anyone is bringing it up except to ad hominem.

But again: A 2D spaceman game with clowns and mimes is not the place to get your /pol/ or your social justice on, and generally speaking admins would rather mute one person or a few people from OOC than ruin it for everyone else. Like seriously I must be banging U2 because I'm really feeling the edge.

Also I don't think any of you pointed out that the shooter was a security officer, literal shitcurity

ShadowDimentio · Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:56 pm

>Talk about the game

IC OOC BANNED

>Talk about politics unrelated to the game

TRIGGERED BANNED

Damned if you do damned if you don't

Post by **oranges** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:57 pm #186605

If people want to let of some steam in the OOC chat for a game that they enjoy playing and with a community that they possibly like why shouldn't they be allowed?

Hibbles · Post by **Hibbles** » Mon Jun 13, 2016 11:11 pm #186609

Now look. I truly do believe the hg meme about how you normies play in our universe. Especially about OOC. You don't have freedom of speech, or anything like it. i once asked somebody to stop using the IC name of the Boston Bomber right after it happened. He told me no. I permabanned him. He never appealed. The server was, objectively, better off for that action then if I had not taken it. That person had nothing to offer us.

But looking at the log. People were just talking about it. And some were being edgy. But aside from this being a recent and sore subject, is this really any more intense than our usual business, or worth picking a fight over? Didn't hg himself start that convo?

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:08 am #186625

Mmmmm, political agenda.

This is why its always shit forever, no matter the person or the subject.
It never ends well.

tedward1337 · Post by **tedward1337** » Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:28 am #186656

What the actual fuck is this complaint lmao
It's a bloody video game in which you were muted and unmuted later on.
God damn, just stay on topic /R9K/

Xhagi · Post by **Xhagi** » Tue Jun 14, 2016 2:46 am #186664

Saegrimr wrote:Mmmmm, political agenda.

This is why its always shit forever, no matter the person or the subject.
It never ends well.

Politics are never a good subject.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Tue Jun 14, 2016 4:42 am #186683

If OOC is shit an admin should just mute it in preferences like players do rather than nuking the whole thing

OOC muting should just be for IC in OOC or for admin events or whatever

ohnopigeons · Post by **ohnopigeons** » Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:32 am #186721

bandit wrote:If you want to talk politics, allow me to direct you to literally the rest of the internet.

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:But it wasn't politics, it was an offensive joke.

TheNightingale wrote:There's "bantz", and then there's joking about a mass murder that happened less than 48 hours ago. Too soon.

oranges wrote:You can certainly get offended at someone for making the joke, but then forcing your personal viewpoint on others via administrative action is just terrible.

bandit wrote:But again: A 2D spaceman game with clowns and mimes is not the place to get your /pol/ or your social justice on, and generally speaking admins would rather mute one person or a few people from OOC than ruin it for everyone else. Like seriously I must be banging U2 because I'm really feeling the edge.

I'm sorry, are you all talking about the same joke/parts of the conversation here? I feel as if there's a slight mismatch of subject matter here.
There are only two parts of this conversation that resemble anything of the joke that is being constantly referenced/discussed:

[19:31:04]OOC: TheWulfe : So a Muslim walks into a gay bar, and the bartender asks, what'll you have?
[19:31:08]OOC: TheWulfe : "50 shots";

and

[19:32:53]OOC: Ohnopigeons : A MUSLIM WALKS INTO A GAY BAR

I myself don't consider what I said to be a joke for various pretentious reasons, but okay, for the purposes of this complaint, it's sort of a joke.
There have been a lot of points being made over "don't bring your politics" or the subject of "freedom of speech to discuss politics" or whatever. Both of these are for the most part devoid of politics, they don't imply any position, thought, or ideology except reference the recent event, and what the news had reported about it. Maybe they are offensive because they provoke humor at the explicit reference.

I logged in right after TheWulfe made that joke so I didn't see it being made. And personally, I don't consider these jokes to be offensive, least of all mine which had no followup punchline; I also had no intention of being offensive. But okay, maybe that's not for me to judge.

Anyways, clarification would be great.

Bawhoppennn · Post by **Bawhoppennn** » Tue Jun 14, 2016 7:45 am #186725

Hibbles wrote:i once asked somebody to stop using the IC name of the Boston Bomber right after it happened. He told me no. I permabanned him. He never appealed. The server was, objectively, better off for that action then if I had not taken it. That person had nothing to offer us.

That's not what objective means, but yes, you're right, it probably was better off without him, but not for the reason you imply. If they're making jokes like that right off the bat they're probably not the type of people we'd want, but the action of making the joke isn't something that should be disallowed.

Post by **oranges** » Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:34 pm #186745

Bawhoppennn wrote:
Hibbles wrote:i once asked somebody to stop using the IC name of the Boston Bomber right after it happened. He told me no. I permabanned him. He never appealed. The server was, objectively, better off for that action then if I had not taken it. That person had nothing to offer us.
That's not what objective means, but yes, you're right, it probably was better off without him, but not for the reason you imply. If they're making jokes like that right off the bat they're probably not the type of people we'd want, but the action of making the joke isn't something that should be disallowed.

It's not that he made the joke that makes the server better off without him, it's that he didn't listen when the admins told him to self moderate.

Look, if one of the people sawu had warned had been continuously ramming the joke down everyone's throats after ooc started to get bored of it? Then I would be fine with administrative action being taken, knowing both how to deliver a joke and then not beating the horse into the ground is important to being a good community member.

It's when administrative action is the weapon of first resort that makes me anxious.

Anyway in my personal opinion, it's not political censorship, just someone being a little too heavy with the admin tools instead of letting things run a bit.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Tue Jun 14, 2016 11:01 pm #186879

Hibbles wrote:Now look. I truly do believe the hg meme about how you normies play in our universe. Especially about OOC. You don't have freedom of speech, or anything like it. i once asked somebody to stop using the IC name of the Boston Bomber right after it happened. He told me no. I permabanned him. He never appealed. The server was, objectively, better off for that action then if I had not taken it. That person had nothing to offer us.

Nice of you to admit to flagrant abuse of your admin powers because you're a muslim apologist of your own personal feelings, seeing as the policy on racism and racist names at that time would've been the one XSI implemented years before.
Which was:
Reading Woody's Got Wood or other versions of pornographic reading material over the radio will 9 times out of 10 get you lynched by the crew. Reading these for the sole purpose of fighting people who try to stop you will get you banned.
The same goes for players should they cross the boundary from casual racism/sexism (e.g. overly stereotyped characters, the occasional derogatory term etc) to extreme racism/sexism (e.g. encouraging genocide, forcing their racist behavior onto the majority/all of the crew, signing up as Adolf Hitler)

Valid for lynching, not valid for banning.

If that was an established player who knew the rules he'd probably have told you to get bent. Like I did.

See this here?

Its a big fuck off button that lets you hide OOC when its gets too distracting or a topic is being discussed that offends your precious sensitive sensibilities.
Maybe people could fucking press that instead of throwing a hissy fit at a bit of gallows humour and some slight talk about reddit sucking.

Its not hard.
End of the day this server community might be far removed from 4chan but it still has its origins and roots there.

onleavedontatme · Wed Jun 15, 2016 12:54 am

Valid for lynching, not valid for banning.

He didn't ban anyone though.

tedward1337 wrote: It's a bloody video game in which you were muted and unmuted later on.

I don't really agree with the mute but it's not like I'm not gonna ban or deadmin him or anything over this.

And now that the essays (with pictures!) are starting to come in from uninvolved people I think this thread has run it's course.

I think oranges best summed up how situations like this should be handled, let's all move on now.

/tg/Station 13

[Sawucalls] Political censorship over OOC, muting

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