Cloning needs to start working off DNA

[Oldman Robustin]

Was watching HG earlier and realized what a game-changer dismemberment is:

1) Whack off your victims head in a few hits
2) Pick up head and keep it, space it, etc.

or

2) Carve out brain with a sharp object
3) Pick any of the 101 ways you can easily keep a brain from being discovered
4) Even if the brain is found, unless someone is willing to do brain surgery just to try and get you back into the round as a human (aka .001% of rounds), you'll end up a borg at best.

My proposal:

1) Injecting Blood into the scanner will result in the DNA being scanned and will trigger cloning if that ghost hasn't taken up a new form (ninja, revenant, etc.), this cloning will occur at the current SLOW-ASS speed. You will have no memories of the shift when revived in this manner.
2) Putting in a relatively intact body will accelerate the cloning process, shaving off a couple minutes.


or:

1) Get rid of being able to carve out organs without surgery
2) Give severed heads some snowflakey rules that make them hard to just pick up and toss out an airlock, even not being able to put them in a bag would make it a lot harder to space someone's mind without attracting attention.

[mercenaryblue]

Cloning a head/torso should pick up the DNA and reform a full body.
A brain should get a notification if there's a new body for the mind.
Quicker cloning when the body is mostly intact is a great idea. Make head and torso worth 40% each, arms and legs 5% each.

Chopping off limbs via swords and cleavers is fine.

[Lumbermancer]

1) Injecting Blood into the scanner.

Just inject that blood into a Pod.

[PKPenguin321]

1. place cyborg head on headless corpse via prosthetic surgery
2. insert brain
then clone

ALTERNATIVELY:
1. use botany cloning since it already kinda works that way

[Incomptinence]

The cloning stops here bye bye brainy.

Also medics just running around scooping up blood to clone people making those with access to cleaning the only killers ugh no please no.

Blood revives should be pods only.

[Super Aggro Crag]

absolute foolishness, how can you have memories without brain?!

[Zilenan91]

Cloning could be made like pod cloning and only require you to have blood injected to regrow someone.

[Oldman Robustin]

absolute foolishness, how can you have memories without brain?!

Maybe you don't, maybe you get cloned but lose all your memories, I think I can type up some super advanced code right now to make it happen.


if(DNACloned)
target << ("<span class='danger'>You've been remade from mere drops of blood, but you have no memory of anything that happened this shift!</span>")

[Oldman Robustin]

The cloning stops here bye bye brainy.

Also medics just running around scooping up blood to clone people making those with access to cleaning the only killers ugh no please no.

Blood revives should be pods only.

You do realize you can't scoop up blood on the ground right?

[Zilenan91]

You can scoop up gibs though. Maybe pulping body parts by hitting them enough could spew gibs you can scoop up.

[ShadowDimentio]

Surely the data the detective scanner produces for everyone could be re-purposed into a unique DNA sequence everyone has for the purposes of cloning.

[PKPenguin321]

You can scoop up gibs though. Maybe pulping body parts by hitting them enough could spew gibs you can scoop up.

gibs dont carry dna they're for making soap

[Zilenan91]

Blood doesn't carry DNA either so you'd have to make blood/gibs carry DNA if this change was to happen

[Incomptinence]

Yeah I knew gibs could do it I presumed blood could too.

Still creates issues like if you dismember someone and someone can just extract dna from the remaining corpse it suddenly becomes an inconvenience? Like ooh here is this new combat feature but if you use it you now have multiple things to hide/destroy? What's the point then?

[Lumbermancer]

Just copy and paste the dna string from the medical records geez...

the whole genome was sequenced in 2050 for a reason.

[Oldman Robustin]

Not having memories would be a huge drawback for having your brain snatched. You couldn't tell who killed you or act on any information from your prior life.

Plus dismemberment's purpose wasn't just to cockblock cloning.

[Scott]

This would just make revival even easier.

[Screemonster]

Bay/Polaris/VG have had dismemberment for years, how do they get around "remove someone from the round forever and make them unclonable by hiding their head in a box"?

[Saegrimr]

Bay/Polaris/VG have had dismemberment for years, how do they get around "remove someone from the round forever and make them unclonable by hiding their head in a box"?

The same way we get around spacing brains.

We fucking don't. Who cares

[Steelpoint]

The answer is to deal with it.

Though I like Oldman's idea of allowing you to use blood to form a clone, but without any recent memories.

[Shaps-cloud]

Bay/Polaris/VG have had dismemberment for years, how do they get around "remove someone from the round forever and make them unclonable by hiding their head in a box"?

The same way we get around spacing brains.

We fucking don't. Who cares

Except now anyone who buys an esword or steals a fireaxe now has effectively free gibbing that they can use en-masse with about 20 seconds of effort? That's a pretty big deal

[MMMiracles]

Bay/Polaris/VG have had dismemberment for years, how do they get around "remove someone from the round forever and make them unclonable by hiding their head in a box"?

by being servers that have some sort of antag restrictions/rp ruleset.

[onleavedontatme]

Bay/Polaris/VG have had dismemberment for years, how do they get around "remove someone from the round forever and make them unclonable by hiding their head in a box"?

Those servers dont let antags kill everyone fnr so balance isnt as big a concern.

[Wyzack]

Welp, death is deadly again. Prepare for whineageddon

[Jazaen]

It's not that death is deadly, it's the return of EI NATH wizard, except now every human antag can use it, not just robed assholes. I really like the idea of cloning from blood, but just copying DNA sequence from medical records is a step in the wrong direction. It is good that if you go through enough effort you CAN remove someone from the round permanently.

Maybe have it work in 3 modes. One works with head and brain thrown into scanner (and possibly all the other bodyparts, this is just a minimum), and is mechanically similar to what we have now. Second, that works if you throw in any part of the body except the combination above into the scanner, that clones them slowly and removes memories. Third works if you put in the brain alone, without head. It saves memories, but gives the person random identity (and race, switching between humans, lizards, flypeople and such).

[PKPenguin321]

Welp, death is deadly again. Prepare for whineageddon

^
Let them whine but don't change it for maybe like a month
They will get over it eventually, they just need to step out of their box of hugs and harden up

[Shaps-cloud]

That may sound fine if you just play a greyshirt who oxytank suicides or alt tabs out of the game half the time anyway, but straight up making the game more inconvenient unless you go out of your way to powergame a million things (get a tracking implant, get scanned at genetics every round, etc) because "lmao git gud" is retarded. If you want to play the game super dangerously on the edge, go plasmaman security or limit yourself in some other way, don't force your shit on everyone

[Wyzack]

My point was that you can not do those things AND also not sperge out when you die by accepting death as part of the game

[Shaps-cloud]

Saying that anyone who doesn't like randomly getting removed from the game and voices their opinion about it is a whiney sperg is dumb and patronizing. The game caters to different audiences, some people want to be action movie heroes who thrust themselves into danger and revel in the thrill of possibly dying every second, and some people want to play it safe and go out of their way to avoid risks when feasible, and most people flip between these two groups depending on how they feel. There are already threats and dangers onboard the station, and people can seek out additional ones if they want to play more dangerously. Making the game more inconvenient to play and make it easier to remove people from the round just because you don't personally feel you face enough danger and you don't like how other people play the game is retarded, the game itself is fine.

[Wyzack]

But the reverse is also true. If people want to take less risks and play it safe they can get clone scanned or give blood to botany

[Shaps-cloud]

That assumes that anyone is there or will ever realize you're dead, I don't see how waiting half an hour in vain for someone to realize that they already scanned you/have your blood in botany when they already recovered your body anyway improves the game experience in any way, just makes it more frustrating

[ShadowDimentio]

Rounds are usually only 30-60 minutes anyways. Dying just means you alt-tab out to Minecraft or some shit for twenty minutes until you get to roll antag again.

[Shaps-cloud]

If your mindset is just "well I'll just alt tab out when I die and roll antag later", no amount of changes to the code will make you care.

[PKPenguin321]

shaps it's okay to die
you of all people should not have as much of an issue with this, because if you die you can keep playing spess by doing admin things

[Shaps-cloud]

Why are you complaining about how you feel other people don't take death seriously when you just alt tab out yourself

[PKPenguin321]

Why are you complaining about how you feel other people don't take death seriously when you just alt tab out yourself

1. Sometimes I don't and I just spectate, namely when there's a good traitor/a destructive singulo/an interesting conflict going on that I can watch
2. What is preventing you from alt+tabbing? Or anyone, for that matter?

[Armhulen]

yeah imo i kind of want this game to get deadlier

i know that people don't want it, but I want this place to be a DEATHtrap, man
don't trust security to save you, don't trust the doctor to help you, make even the cockroaches have traitor objectives'
that. that is what i want. lavaland gave me death and I loved it.
when I kill someone, they should be gone. the only thing that can bring them back is the defib. that's it. zingo.
why I like xenos in this, death is the end, you will die when you get hugged, but even then you can get MMI'd or some shit.

[WarbossLincoln]

Something to consider: C4 doesn't gib bodies anymore and parapens aren't instant because using 5 TC to completely remove a player from the round and greentext in 15 seconds was bullshit.

[Jacough]

Make it so cloning dismembered bodies results in skeletized parts for the dismembered limbs. Horrific abominations with exposed skulls everywhere.

[dionysus24779]

I like the idea of cloning being faster the more genetic material is present for the cloning.

So a full body will clone the fasted, each missing limb reduces the speed, the slowest being cloning from simple blood.

But then the cloning scanner should be changed to be able to accept not just bodies, but any bodypart and blood.

However I don't like the idea of having to loose your memories, we don't do that for plant people either and they grow from seeds and blood.

Also I would like to see there being a more active part in restoring someone to live, because just throwing corpses into the cloner and letting it run on auto is kind of boring.

Maybe the cloning should work as it is but the Geneticist could do something to speed it up or reduce the chance of negative mutations, like playing some sort of medical minigame or something.

There was also once the idea that cloning should be removed and replaced with like a stem cell lab that grows individual bodyparts and assembles bodies for bringing people back. That way human bodies would be assembled like borgs (but with surgery), you could give out individual bodyparts if needed (like if someone looses an arm) and you could still have a machine that processes a freshly assembled body with an active brain inserted to bring them back. I dunno.

Just wished Genetics was a bit more exciting than just sitting around and trying to manipulate numbers with random jumps up and down and throwing a corpse into a machine here and there, which other people do all the time for you anyway.

[WarbossLincoln]

Can you pull blood up off the floor? I'm not against allowing blood/parts to be cloneable as long as you need some tangible part of the body or a blood sample that can't just be picked up from the crime scene. If that were the case it would be almost impossible to prevent cloning. If an antag completely hides/disposes of all body parts then they shouldn't be cloneable. Otherwise like someone said unless an antag had cleaning gear then it would be impossible to keep someone dead. This would also lead to lots of meta: "A non janitor is cleaning up blood, he must be a tator". It would be shitty but you know it will happen.

[paprika]

absolute foolishness, how can you have memories without brain?!

Maybe you don't, maybe you get cloned but lose all your memories, I think I can type up some super advanced code right now to make it happen.


if(DNACloned)
target << ("<span class='danger'>You've been remade from mere drops of blood, but you have no memory of anything that happened this shift!</span>")

I swear this is a basis for how Wolverine has amnesia in X-Men after getting shot in the head

[Actionb]

However I don't like the idea of having to loose your memories, we don't do that for plant people either and they grow from seeds and blood.

Big thing here is keeping your name - and thus your identity (both IC and OOC) - by being cloned via hydroponics.
You don't get that when you come back as a posibrain/golem, since, well, you are something completely different.
Losing all your memories due to 'emergency' cloning would definitely work if you popped out of the cloning pod as an entirely new person. Let's just pretend future genetics is still not quite 'there' when it comes to making a perfect copy of the DNA sample that you scrapped off the sole of your shoe. Put the same restriction on pod-cloning for consistency fluff.
The murderer is happy (his victim will never return), the victim is happy (albeit as a new character), the geneticist is happy (they're all about breeding those pink-pigtails, blue-bearded, barely non-monkey shemales you get by randomly messing with the genome). Heck, even the HoP will have something to do when that visual migraine of a freak of nature wants a new ID.

Maybe the concept of cloning is ripe for an overhaul to fit with the new metagame. Pretty sure it's one of the last untouched departments concerning major changes over the last few years.
Suggestions like these are a good opportunity to implement new features. One could seperate this 'bare minimum DNA' cloning from your everyday put-dead-guy-in-scanner cloning by adding another lab dedicated to working with more difficult cloning procedures. Could also include absorbed changeling victims .

[MMMiracles]

I mean even if cloning was allowed with just DNA instead of a brain, you'd just be creating what is essentially a living vegetable who knows how to breathe.

You'd literally be on=par with the intelligence of a newborn infant, maybe even less. Unless you do some weird cop-out like 'nanotrasen has backups of crew minds at shift-start', they'd only be good for harvesting.

[Actionb]

I mean even if cloning was allowed with just DNA instead of a brain, you'd just be creating what is essentially a living vegetable who knows how to breathe.

You'd literally be on=par with the intelligence of a newborn infant, maybe even less. Unless you do some weird cop-out like 'nanotrasen has backups of crew minds at shift-start', they'd only be good for harvesting.

>implying most people aren't vegetables already
Let's just say future NT geneticists can 'imprint' vital information (speech, motoric functions, how to hit a clown, etc.) onto the genetic memory of any being.
I mean, having an infinite amount of disposable clone-workers would be right up their alley. And who's to say your character didn't start out as an almost-vegetable some years ago (or the shift before... dun DUN DUN)?

I just don't want another way out of character perma-death (no matter how easily achievable that is with dismemberment). Might as well just enable respawn.
Becoming a new fully human version of a plantperson/golem is fine in my book, though... considering we have so many ways of not having to alt-tab out after one's death, does one more option really hurt anyone? Especially since some people only like to play as a human.

[Endozworld]

The cloning stops here bye bye brainy.

Also medics just running around scooping up blood to clone people making those with access to cleaning the only killers ugh no please no.

Blood revives should be pods only.

Even better, if multiple blood samples from different people were in the blood scooped the cloner should pump out a flesh monstrosity. could be interesting