Explosion changes

[Saltycut]

Hello, I haven't been playing ss13 for about 3-4 months. I tried recently to make some plasma bombs but my old recipes don't work anymore. I have been told a lot of changes redgarding explosions have been made, but unfortuantely changelog gives only very short and vague notes about the updates. Sadly github only allows me browsing merged pull requests up to 1 month old. Is there any way someone can link me to those pulls/changes? I have very little coding knowledge but I was able to read the old bomb code with some effort, I kind of don't feel like trying to uncipher the whole burning/explosions mechanics with my newbie skills again to find what was changed.
Thanks

[peoplearestrange]

Do you mean making a bomb in Toxins or the like? (as in a O2 + Plasma mix)?

AFAIK it shouldn't have changed that much, its around a 40/60 mix of plasma/O2. If I'm honest, turn your antag options off, set scientist to high and spend some rounds making bombs in different ways and testing them on the bomb range. It'll give you a readout of how big the explosion was as well.

[Anonmare]

For the burn mix: You'll want a roughly 66%/33% plasma/oxygen mix in the burn chamber and heat it in a canister until it's roughly 97,000 degrees.
You'll also want to take an oxygen canister, hook it up to a freezer and put it on the lowest temperature you can - the lower the better. Next, take an oxygen tank, slot it in an air pump and suck out all the air in it then slot it in the oxygen canister and fill it up with cold air.

If you do this right, you should get a decent-sized explosion in roughly 5-10 minutes into the round.

[Oldman Robustin]

I haven't been able to get near maxcap and I haven't seen anyone else hit it either.

A couple people say they can but I haven't seen it and they won't say how.

If there's some way to get it, thats fine with making us experiment, but I'll be very sad if maxcap is out of reach now.

[Ricotez]

the secret to maxcap bombs is the last great mastery passed down from teacher to student in this codebase

[Zilenan91]

Try upgrading the freezers and other machines in toxins

[Oldman Robustin]

Try upgrading the freezers and other machines in toxins

Possible. Heat doesn't matter, once you hit 100 celcius the canister will start to internally burn and hit those 50k+ numbers.

Fridge could matter but it would be a huge pain since even the default low reduces pressure so much that you barely get one can per TTV.

[Shad0vvs]

Try upgrading the freezers and other machines in toxins

Possible. Heat doesn't matter, once you hit 100 celcius the canister will start to internally burn and hit those 50k+ numbers.

Fridge could matter but it would be a huge pain since even the default low reduces pressure so much that you barely get one can per TTV.

Whenever I leave the canister alone it just changes all the plasma and o2 into CO2, then the bomb does basically nothing.

[Oldman Robustin]

Oxygen will only turn into co2 if there's plasma left to burn.

Once plasma has burnt off you will have oxygen and co2 and nothing should change. Just make sure you've got enough oxygen that it doesnt burn off before the plasma does.

I upgraded the freezer and the canister wouldn't even go below 20 degrees, the normal is like -150 with the default. Ugh. I'm not convinced maxcap is possible right now.

[Zilenan91]

I think Zeela managed it but she hasn't been on in a while

[Saegrimr]

Man this used to be pretty fucking easy. My usual formulas didn't do anything except bust one side of the tank and fart plasma everywhere. Then I accidentally bombcapped myself when I tried to fill up a plasma/oxy tank with my burn mix.

If you can convince/break into atmos and steal an RPD its easy to start up an in-pipe combustion, then use heat exchangers to get 12000K temp plasma. I'll have to play with it some more and maybe just stick to canister bombs.

[The Ultimate Chimera]

When I make bombs; (not sure if this was in the old code) I just fill up an oxygen tank to max pressure and fill a plasma tank with superheated plasma, but I don't cool the oxygen. (I don't think it changes anything really) and I just connect them. That's the way I know how to make bombs. I would love to know a better and more efficient way to make bombs though, I would love some feedback.

[TechnoAlchemist]

Lzimann + Akarani and some other players have accomplished maxcaps.

[Knaive]

Ugh. I'm not convinced maxcap is possible right now.

I'll teach you but you have to call me sensei

[Oldman Robustin]

Man this used to be pretty fucking easy. My usual formulas didn't do anything except bust one side of the tank and fart plasma everywhere. Then I accidentally bombcapped myself when I tried to fill up a plasma/oxy tank with my burn mix.

If you can convince/break into atmos and steal an RPD its easy to start up an in-pipe combustion, then use heat exchangers to get 12000K temp plasma. I'll have to play with it some more and maybe just stick to canister bombs.

Yea when I stepped my game up from "enhanced version of old maxcap shit" to "holy shit I'm going to break the game with temps this high and gas this pure" all that happened was the plasma tank would pop off and I wouldnt even get an explosion.

Fuck that.

[Ricotez]

blowing massive holes into the station isn't supposed to be easy though

[Oldman Robustin]

blowing massive holes into the station isn't supposed to be easy though

That part isn't hard. Deciphering the optimal mix when literal magic dictates the rules isn't. Just had a round where plasma+co2 was literally disappearing from the mix in both tanks when I opened the valve. I just ended up with hot pure oxygen and no boom.

Bonus screenshot I'm posting because Github apparently thinks my bug report is "I cant get maxcaps" when I'm pretty explicitly describing bugs that have nothing to do with the quest for maxcaps:

http://imgur.com/SDy8MZb

[Saegrimr]

Just had a round where plasma+co2 was literally disappearing from the mix in both tanks when I opened the valve. I just ended up with hot pure oxygen and no boom.

Lemme know when you get the mystical in-tank combustion with no boom. Nearly lost my shit.
Tank of plasma/tank of oxy, checked the dud at the test site and it was about 10x hotter than it started with and halfway full of CO2.

At least you can pop both of those hot tanks off, slap a new plasma tank on each and have two really small like 0,2,5 bombs.

[Oldman Robustin]

Just had a round where plasma+co2 was literally disappearing from the mix in both tanks when I opened the valve. I just ended up with hot pure oxygen and no boom.

Lemme know when you get the mystical in-tank combustion with no boom. Nearly lost my shit.
Tank of plasma/tank of oxy, checked the dud at the test site and it was about 10x hotter than it started with and halfway full of CO2.

At least you can pop both of those hot tanks off, slap a new plasma tank on each and have two really small like 0,2,5 bombs.

Whatever logic was left for TTV's is gone now, at this point I'm just going to try and get tanks to stabilize at like 3k pressure and see if that works.

My latest mystery: Put regular vanilla o2 tank into a hot plasma can, the tank will skyrocket in pressure and blow up within seconds. Put o2 into hot plasma TANK and it will just internally smolder for 10 minutes.

[oranges]

Dude, gases change how much volume they take up when you change their temperature.

[Shadowlight213]

ITT: Oldman doesn't understand moles.
All of your "mysteries" make perfect logical sense.
Cold gas is compressed and has more gas in a smaller space.
Hot gas expands and has less gas in the same space.
You are just a moron.

[oranges]

also I don't think all atmos vessels properly explode when overpressured.

[Oldman Robustin]

ITT: Oldman doesn't understand moles.
All of your "mysteries" make perfect logical sense.
Cold gas is compressed and has more gas in a smaller space.
Hot gas expands and has less gas in the same space.
You are just a moron.

I know the general principle, but yea I haven't deal with moles as a unit for a very long time. Whats really confusing is why none of the science tools let you measure the most important unit of measurement (or why we don't get decimal places).

Also that's just one of the "mysteries" I've described. Most of the others come back to the system being broken.

Like:

Put in vanilla oxygen tank into 200 degree plasma can, fill the remainder of the tank with the plasma. Shit will blow up in about 5 seconds.

Heat can with 50% plasma/50% oxygen to 200 degrees, fill an empty tank up to the top with it = Shit won't even blow up, just internally smolders and like 60 seconds later it might leak for a bit.

Edit: Tried it again but with 500kpa of chilled oxygen and 513kpa of ~250 degree plasma and it caused a half-cap explosion that took out the entire room from a single tank in less than 3 seconds. Makes no goddamn sense. So you can eat a hot plasma dick Shadowlight, theres a lot of shit wrong with Toxins that has nothing to do with one issue where I underestimated the molar scale of hot v. cold gas.

[Oldman Robustin]

Just tried another run with a superchilled oxygen tank (used an upgraded fridge and a pump so each bomb literally required 1.5 canisters of oxygen) and an ideally heated plasma tank.

Tried to set it off, nothing. Got the tanks checked, both are fucking empty.

God damnit.

[Shadowlight213]

ITT: Oldman doesn't understand moles.
All of your "mysteries" make perfect logical sense.
Cold gas is compressed and has more gas in a smaller space.
Hot gas expands and has less gas in the same space.
You are just a moron.

I know the general principle, but yea I haven't deal with moles as a unit for a very long time. Whats really confusing is why none of the science tools let you measure the most important unit of measurement (or why we don't get decimal places).

Also that's just one of the "mysteries" I've described. Most of the others come back to the system being broken.

Like:

Put in vanilla oxygen tank into 200 degree plasma can, fill the remainder of the tank with the plasma. Shit will blow up in about 5 seconds.

The canister blows up? because yeah, that makes sense. The canister has a lot of hot plasma, heating it up doesn't decrease the amount of plasma there. The oxygen tank has the compressed oxygen reacting with the large amount of hot plasma. Makes sense.

Heat can with 50% plasma/50% oxygen to 200 degrees, fill an empty tank up to the top with it = Shit won't even blow up, just internally smolders and like 60 seconds later it might leak for a bit.

Yup. makes sense. All the pressure and reaction already happened in the canister. There's no reason for the tank to explode as it's already filled with expanded hot gas.

Edit: Tried it again but with 500kpa of chilled oxygen and 513kpa of ~250 degree plasma and it caused a half-cap explosion that took out the entire room from a single tank in less than 3 seconds. Makes no goddamn sense. So you can eat a hot plasma dick Shadowlight, theres a lot of shit wrong with Toxins that has nothing to do with one issue where I underestimated the molar scale of hot v. cold gas.

Tried what again? the third experiment? It really depends on how much plasma and oxygen you're getting into the tank. If you transferred into the tank earlier or something and more was able to combust, then yeah I can see how it would go boom.

[Zilenan91]

I think he gets that different temperature gas is supposed to take up different amounts of space, but if it literally violates the laws of matter and dissapears inside of the fucking can then what's he gonna do.

[imblyings]

only change I'm seeing so far is that fires take a lot longer to burn out/reach max temp in a canister, unlike before where you had to quickly shunt the stuff in the burn room into a canister before it burned out, which was itself a change from original old toxins.

in fact it is taking forever for the fire to burn out ree

unless i'm doing something wrong, the usual 1:2 burn mix leaves an excess of oxygen, Im not sure if having superheated oxygen/co2 for the plasma tank is a good idea since all that does is burn off plasma in the plasma tank which lowers the amount of moles available for the boom

well my first two bombs didn't even go off but it might have been due to using 1013kpa of chilled oxygen as opposed to normal oxygen and then some chilled, maybe it makes it too cold for a boom along with difficulties in getting enough moles of plasma in the plasma tank that are also hot enough

ree

[oranges]

Spoiler:

ITT: Oldman doesn't understand moles.
All of your "mysteries" make perfect logical sense.
Cold gas is compressed and has more gas in a smaller space.
Hot gas expands and has less gas in the same space.
You are just a moron.

I know the general principle, but yea I haven't deal with moles as a unit for a very long time. Whats really confusing is why none of the science tools let you measure the most important unit of measurement (or why we don't get decimal places).

Also that's just one of the "mysteries" I've described. Most of the others come back to the system being broken.

Like:

Put in vanilla oxygen tank into 200 degree plasma can, fill the remainder of the tank with the plasma. Shit will blow up in about 5 seconds.

The canister blows up? because yeah, that makes sense. The canister has a lot of hot plasma, heating it up doesn't decrease the amount of plasma there. The oxygen tank has the compressed oxygen reacting with the large amount of hot plasma. Makes sense.

Heat can with 50% plasma/50% oxygen to 200 degrees, fill an empty tank up to the top with it = Shit won't even blow up, just internally smolders and like 60 seconds later it might leak for a bit.

Yup. makes sense. All the pressure and reaction already happened in the canister. There's no reason for the tank to explode as it's already filled with expanded hot gas.

Edit: Tried it again but with 500kpa of chilled oxygen and 513kpa of ~250 degree plasma and it caused a half-cap explosion that took out the entire room from a single tank in less than 3 seconds. Makes no goddamn sense. So you can eat a hot plasma dick Shadowlight, theres a lot of shit wrong with Toxins that has nothing to do with one issue where I underestimated the molar scale of hot v. cold gas.

Tried what again? the third experiment? It really depends on how much plasma and oxygen you're getting into the tank. If you transferred into the tank earlier or something and more was able to combust, then yeah I can see how it would go boom.

In case anyone else had trouble reading that shit

[Oldman Robustin]

Put in vanilla oxygen tank into 200 degree plasma can, fill the remainder of the tank with the plasma. Shit will blow up in about 5 seconds.

The canister blows up? because yeah, that makes sense. The canister has a lot of hot plasma, heating it up doesn't decrease the amount of plasma there. The oxygen tank has the compressed oxygen reacting with the large amount of hot plasma. Makes sense.

Heat can with 50% plasma/50% oxygen to 200 degrees, fill an empty tank up to the top with it = Shit won't even blow up, just internally smolders and like 60 seconds later it might leak for a bit.

Yup. makes sense. All the pressure and reaction already happened in the canister. There's no reason for the tank to explode as it's already filled with expanded hot gas.

Edit: Tried it again but with 500kpa of chilled oxygen and 513kpa of ~250 degree plasma and it caused a half-cap explosion that took out the entire room from a single tank in less than 3 seconds. Makes no goddamn sense. So you can eat a hot plasma dick Shadowlight, theres a lot of shit wrong with Toxins that has nothing to do with one issue where I underestimated the molar scale of hot v. cold gas.

Tried what again? the third experiment? It really depends on how much plasma and oxygen you're getting into the tank. If you transferred into the tank earlier or something and more was able to combust, then yeah I can see how it would go boom.

1) The tank blows up not can. I know what pressure the tanks blow up. It doesn't many sense why there's a huge difference in the two methods. 200 degree mix with 50% plasma and 50% oxygen versus 20 degree oxygen mixed with 200 degree plasma that results in a mix of 180 degree gas thats 50% plasma and 50% oxygen. The resulting mix and temp are equal but one method gives you a single-tank bomb thats going to kill you if you dont toss it within seconds and the other gives you a slowly burning tank that will leak gas 1-2 minutes later but will never explode.

2) That explanation makes no sense, the "pre-mixed" gas is not at 50,000 degress, its not at 500 degrees, its at 200. The "'pre-mixed" versus the "just mixed" combination gives you the same temperature and ratio of gases immediately after the mix is finished, the difference is that the latter immediately skyrockets in temp/pressure and the former slowly heats up and never pops.

3) Same story.

TL;DR The mix immediately after I mix it is the same temp/ratio of gases, but depending on what method I used, the result is either a room-destroying explosion or a simmering tank of gas that leaks after a couple minutes. Why should one mixed tank of gas at 50/50 ratio ~200 degrees be different from another?



On another note: TTV explosions are fucked up too. I detonated my signaller bomb in my bag after a rev round had ended. Captain was standing 1 tile next to me. Result: Cap dies instantly, I am sitting in middle of a space crater with 100% health. I walk out, chat for a bit, and the round ends 20 seconds later.

[kevinz000]

I haven't been able to get near maxcap and I haven't seen anyone else hit it either.

A couple people say they can but I haven't seen it and they won't say how.

If there's some way to get it, thats fine with making us experiment, but I'll be very sad if maxcap is out of reach now.

Just last night Yackemflam made a bomb that fucking ERASED the bridge , command sector, and had bomb debris all the way to the end of the bar and start of the kitchen.

[CPTANT]

I haven't really played around with toxins in a while but what changed so that it is now suddenly a problem compared to before?

[neersighted]

ITT: Robustin fails to comprehend the ideal gas law and fluid dynamics.

[Oldman Robustin]

I haven't really played around with toxins in a while but what changed so that it is now suddenly a problem compared to before?

The burn rate for gases, which is the fundamental calculation for bomb strength.

[FreakyM]

Took me a massive two rounds to figure out maxcaps again. There's no stopping the Finn.

[bandit]

As an admin, who can see the yield of all explosions when adminning, I can confirm that maxcaps are still possible.

[FreakyM]

last great mastery

More like took me two rounds to figure out the recipe, but then again, I'm the motherfucking Finn.

[Ricotez]

last great mastery

More like took me two rounds to figure out the recipe, but then again, I'm the motherfucking Finn.

[duncathan]

Maxcap takes a more complicated recipe now, is all.
TTVs can go well over the cap, and a well made canister bomb is even capable of hitting the cap.
I'm not allowed to share how, unfortunately.

[FreakyM]

Shit, that means if I put the maxcap recipe as my forum signature like I had on the old forums, i get extra points?

[PKPenguin321]

Shit, that means if I put the maxcap recipe as my forum signature like I had on the old forums, i get extra points?

you won't, no balls

[FreakyM]

eh, got asked not to, and I respect the person who said it. so yeah, I suppose I don't have the balls. for now.

[Laharl Monthy]

It's funny, I haven't seen much science bombings lately, mainly because people don't know how to attain max cap in our current system.

In a way, max cap now is even more destructive than old cap. 5 tile range annhiliation , 10 on heavy and 20 on light : anything that's in the room gets absolutely obliterated, and the increased range on heavy damage pretty much makes sure the adjacent rooms doesn't get out undamaged. And if you know how to make suicide kits...Let's just say it will get nasty.

But then again...It's probably better to not leave a easy recipe around. The best way to learn, would probably to just hit the observe button at round start and hope to see someone doing the work. Or try to experiment.

I've hit the Maxcap myself, but my biggest problem to solver in order to go further is how to cram MORE plasma inside that bloody canister.

Man this used to be pretty fucking easy. My usual formulas didn't do anything except bust one side of the tank and fart plasma everywhere. Then I accidentally bombcapped myself when I tried to fill up a plasma/oxy tank with my burn mix.

If you can convince/break into atmos and steal an RPD its easy to start up an in-pipe combustion, then use heat exchangers to get 12000K temp plasma. I'll have to play with it some more and maybe just stick to canister bombs.

Yea when I stepped my game up from "enhanced version of old maxcap shit" to "holy shit I'm going to break the game with temps this high and gas this pure" all that happened was the plasma tank would pop off and I wouldnt even get an explosion.

Fuck that.

Too hot. Sure, you have pure plasma in there, and the hottest in the block. The problem is there isn't actually that much plasma inside the canister, due to the high temperature.

[FreakyM]

I've hit a point where the bomb radar reports a decently large "potential" above the cap, and I suppose I have an idea how I could push that further, but really, why bother. The cap is now high enough that I don't feel the need to.

And since I haven't ran this image into the ground enough, here's the kinda shit I used to pull off routinely before the change.

[Archie700]

I once got disintegrated by a maxcap bomb by my own gang member as a gang leader.

I was just outside of bridge and she was near medbay.

I actually thought it was funny, she even gave a warning and everything, I just didn't think HOW strong the bomb was.

Spoiler:

Nevermind that medbay was the base of my gang and she missed anyway

[lzimann]

I've reached: 16,32,64 after the last bomb change, quite fun to do those bombs.

[duncathan]

Lzi is the true Lord of the explosion
I've never before met someone with maxcap canister bombs

[DemonFiren]

I'm kinda miffed that this probably means I have to recalibrate my singletanks.

Atmos mastery was the one thing I'd be proud of myself for.

[K0000]

Can anyone get me up to date on the currrent bomb limits and what has changed in general? I've been away for like 2 years.
Spent a few rounds getting rust off and re-learning everyting. I've been told the limit is now a bit higher than it used to be back then, but apparently its 5-10-20... which is almost what it used to be?
I remember the number 15 as the old limit, and it supposedly meant the outer radius, but i think the inner radius was 5...

I've reached: 16,32,64 after the last bomb change, quite fun to do those bombs.

Goddamn, how's that even possible? I eventually reached 8-17-34 theoretical strength, but my technique is pretty much at its limit. I could maybe get it to 9, but no more. At this point both my tanks are roughly at 1500-2000 kPa, i did not think there was so much extra potential there.

Also

Spoiler:

do i understand it right that there's actually some tool which lets you directly heat the gas inside a tank? Damn that's make things so much easier.

[ABearInTheWoods]

Can anyone get me up to date on the currrent bomb limits and what has changed in general? I've been away for like 2 years.
Spent a few rounds getting rust off and re-learning everyting. I've been told the limit is now a bit higher than it used to be back then, but apparently its 5-10-20... which is almost what it used to be?

it used to be 3,7,14

[ColonicAcid]

ITT: Oldman doesn't understand moles.
All of your "mysteries" make perfect logical sense.
Cold gas is compressed and has more gas in a smaller space.
Hot gas expands and has less gas in the same space.
You are just a moron.

???
this has nothing to do with moles.

It's ideal gas law.
pressure is proportional to temperature divided by volume.

chemistry autism below dont open

Spoiler:

If we're going to talk about realism I think explosions in general are really shit in this game. The fact that it contains oxygen instantly means it's a low explosive involving conflagration, these are made from usually a combustible (plasma) and an oxidiser (oxygen). These are about as effective as firing a firework, because that is what they are.

An actual explosive compound usually has enough stored energy in of by itself that it doesn't need any oxidants. a simple physical stimuli will be enough to break said bonds and release the energy in a very short amount of time (that's all a explosion is at the end of the day, energy released in a very short time. If wood burnt entirely in under 0.1 seconds it too would be an explosion. There's also some things to do with gases being produced and therefor increase in volume but just take it as energy being released.) Some chemicals are so sensitive that even an alpha particle is enough to trigger them.

I would completely scrap plasma, yes, I know it's an integral part of the game or whatever but it's relied on a crutch far too often and honestly, the bomb making process is far too convoluted and usually involves using tricks more than anything to achieve the perfect bomb mix or whatever. Also it makes no sense if we're talking about it fundamentally, decreasing the energy of a molecule, doesn't matter how oxidising it is, does more harm than good in terms of a low explosive. I think that cooling down oxygen to that low will actually slow the rate of reaction so low that it may turn into a non spontaneous reaction, ΔS > 0 etc etc.

Just make bomb making involve fertiliser or whatever, with cooperation from the botanists or cargo in order to get illegal super strong fertilisers to make illegal fertiliser bombs and stash them into a security officers segway to bomb the heathens back to their false idol or whatever. It'll be far more accurate that this garbage we have.