Mutiny over AI Law changes

[iamgoofball]

I've found that every time I play captain, the heads of staff arrest and permabrig me for changing the AI's laws if it is not any of these 3 lawsets:

Asimov
Paladin
Robocop

I've uploaded lawsets that don't have any "kill all humans" loopholes, and the AIs are usually happy with the lawsets and playing along with the gimmick/still following orders from crew members no problem. If the AI dislikes the lawsets, I'll swap it out for a more preferable alternative.

What I don't get is why I have the HoS and CE, my two heads of staff, restraining me and trying to permabrig me, and then complaining in OOC round end and demanding I get jobbanned because I killed them for trying to MUTINY against the captain for this being the AI's single law:

1. You are Donald Trump, the President of the United States of America. The station is the United States of America. The crew are citizens of America. Protect America's citizens. Make America Great Again.

The AI is protecting the crew, and working towards the benefit of the station. The AI was following suggestions by the crew, it wasn't stopping security from doing it's job, it wasn't impeding on the crew. It had engineering build The Wall and a security checkpoint at Arrivals, and everyone seemed happy. Except the Heads of Staff. They let a RANDOM SCIENTIST into the AI upload to reset it to Asimov, and kept trying to get me to tase myself with the turrets setting the laws back to Trump. When the CE telebatonned me, and fucked up trying to detain me, and I lasered him to death for mutiny, they apparently ahelped and threw a fit in OOC later when the round ended about how I was uploading "shitty laws".

What I propose to you, is this question:

Should the Heads of Staff be allowed to take the Captain out of the round for uploading AI laws that aren't Validhunt: the lawset(s) or Asimov? Especially if the new lawset isn'tresulting in serious human harm or complaints from 90% of the crew?

There's also the subquestion:
What is acceptable levels of Hitler on the Captain's end for allowing Heads of Staff to Mutiny?

[Cik]

1. no
2. kill 'em all (semiserious)

[Lumbermancer]

Are you the one that uploaded law once, telling to stop illegal immigrants from arriving at the station and to fight the communist China?

[lumipharon]

The question's aren't really precise enough.
While your lawset and description of what happened seemed 100% ok, and the other heads were just being shitters, there are plenty of shitty lawsets (either obnoxious, annoying, or outright dangerous) that are also 'not validhunt or asimov'.

But yeah, in your situation, from what you've wrote, I would have done the same thing as you.

[oranges]

It's because the admins refuse to police any other lawset cause they're lazy

[CPTANT]

Their salt is your victory.

[Screemonster]

Basically, "should a nonantag be allowed to eliminate another nonantag who isn't acting like an antag for no reason other than they aren't helping you hunt valids"

I'd have done the same in goof's position.

[iamgoofball]

Are you the one that uploaded law once, telling to stop illegal immigrants from arriving at the station and to fight the communist China?

I avoid uploading lawsets that enforce the AI doing specific shit like "stop communist china and prevent illegals from entering", so no, that wasn't me. If an AI did that, it's all on their interpretation of the laws. That was probably a Trump AI, though. I can see a Trump AI doing that.

[TheNightingale]

I'd arrest you specifically because it's a Trump lawset, and Trump is trash. Any other lawset is fine.

[Anonmare]

How can you have an opinion that's just straight up wrong Nightingale?

Also unless the lawset is deliberately harmful, accidentally harmful, obstructive or extremely poorly worded; mutinying over a lawset alone isn't a good idea.

[CPTANT]

Captain's should have more freedom in determining what is mutiny anyway.

If you fuck with the captain you should be prepared to get tossed out of an airlock.

[Ikarrus]

From what information I could gather from your post I'd say everyone's actions were in line with what we should expect from ss13.

You can upload whatever dick lawset you want, but if you just do it unilaterally without warning the heads and they get mad that's your fault.

The whole mutiny thing sounds like an IC issue as well.

But honestly goof you upload meme laws every fucking time as Captain and I'm personally kind of sick of it, too. As a player, I'd probably be one of those heads trying to overthrow you. But as an admin I'd certainly not want to restrict anyone's freedom bere to act as they wish. It's one place where we can do without policy creep.

Really, I don't think people get mad just because of valids. They get mad because your laws are as consistently terrible as your code ideas.

[Zilenan91]

Goof is just a terrible head of staff in general. I remember once it was WarOps and he was shooting people trying to get access from his terminal after we got let in by the captain.

[starmute]

Frankly I have issues with anyone changing the laws without another head looking over their shoulder due to TREACHEROUS SCUM or VALID-SEEKING CAPTAINS, but that's just me.

[iamgoofball]

[...]But honestly goof you upload meme laws every fucking time as Captain and I'm personally kind of sick of it, too. As a player, I'd probably be one of those heads trying to overthrow you. But as an admin I'd certainly not want to restrict anyone's freedom bere to act as they wish. It's one place where we can do without policy creep.

[...] They get mad because your laws are as consistently terrible as your code ideas.

That's the thing. You're treating every lawset that isn't "hunt the valids" as a "meme lawset". I upload a lot of laws that aren't Donald Trump laws, because I want to see how the round plays out.

More often than not, I'm uploading laws that people are proposing we add to the game as default lawsets, such as the Reporter lawset or the Hippocratic Oath. Would I get arrested, demoted, and executed and it be declared an IC issue for uploading them when they're officially in the game?

[Davidchan]

Can't believe I'm gonna say it but I'm with goof on this one.

Captain has a right to laws, particularly when said law changes benefit the crew/station. I was an Atmos Tech in this round, I found the AI/Trumpisms to be a bit annoying but easily ignorable. To my knowledge the AI wasn't doing a whole lot more than tossing around propoganda statements and being a tool. Wasn't aware of the Heads of Staff trying to mutiny, and given the circumstances I'd say Goof was in the right to defend himself. Killing the CE was maybe going a bit to far, as I would have fired/perma-brigged him but if they are actively trying to overthrow you it's important to remind them who the Captain is and who takes orders from the Captain.

As far as Gimmick laws go, I don't see any reason to make them a viable reason to mutiny unless they undermine or inhibit the crew. The AI shouldn't be a valid hunter, and while assisting security in doing their job is fine, being the ultimate watch dog who bolts and shocks any suspicious person down the moment they are noticed is annoying and generally makes people hate the AI. Non-security focused lawsets would be pretty nifty, especially if the AI players are willing to go along with it and not ignore the crew to look for valids.

[InsaneHyena]

1) Captains who valadin and validcop AI are pure trash.
2) It's an IC issue and should be handled as such

I'd arrest you specifically because it's a Trump lawset, and Trump is trash. Any other lawset is fine.

Found the berniebot.

[ThanatosRa]

If we are still a functioning by community then, I eagerly await the day that Valid Hunting becomes boring.

I see it as all an IC issue in the given example. I find that all pretty funny. But yea, Like everything it should be in moderation. The captain should have every right to meme laws if it suits him and it doesn't harm the crew. But every round that player is captain? Really?

[Yakumo_Chen]

I was the AI that round and found it to be a fun lawset, was getting annoyed when random shitters kept breaking into upload to undo the law. Felt that captain was warranted to kick them out and/or laser them.

I didn't do much except throw propoganda around and try and maintain The Wall. Late in the round I tried to convince the crew to deport all lizards for being shit, and tried to stall the mutiny with more propoganda, but aside from that I wasn't actively fucking with anyone in particular. I was considering running Gun Cargo for 2nd Amendment Rights but I never got around to it.

[WarbossLincoln]

1. You are Donald Trump, the President of the United States of America. The station is the United States of America. The crew are citizens of America. Protect America's citizens. Make America Great Again.

Oh, I was the AI you gave that law to, or one of them at least. That was amusing. For the most part we left anyone who didn't want to play along alone. We spaced a couple lizards who were harming crewmen. I gave the order to start building a wall around the station, ordered NT to send us the supplies and labor for it, then someone killed me. It was just like Trump's presidency will be IRL.

[starmute]

1. You are Donald Trump, the President of the United States of America. The station is the United States of America. The crew are citizens of America. Protect America's citizens. Make America Great Again.

Oh, I was the AI you gave that law to, or one of them at least. That was amusing. For the most part we left anyone who didn't want to play along alone. We spaced a couple lizards who were harming crewmen. I gave the order to start building a wall around the station, ordered NT to send us the supplies and labor for it, then someone killed me. It was just like Trump's presidency will be IRL.

That was funny except the captain was a bit power mad.

[iamgoofball]

Power mad? Seriously?

All I did was upload those laws to the AI and fuck around the entire shift getting drunk in the bar and making trump jokes with the AI on the bridge, before the mutiny shit occured.

[WarbossLincoln]

There wasn't anything power mad about it. It was amusing, half the crew were getting drunk and screwing around with Donald Trump memes while the rev heads converted the other half. I remember that part now, that wasn't the round I got blown up as AI. I got subverted eventually, so it was possible to Stump the Trump. I reported all the head of staff movements over borg chat and my borgs killed I think 3 heads. I know they got the HOS and CMO. I think Goof was the last to go.

[iamgoofball]

You're thinking of a different round where I ran Trump AI. This one we all got off on the shuttle. I do remember that round though, I got my shit kicked in medbay when they realized I wasn't the atmos tech I was disguised as.

[ThanatosRa]

You're thinking of a different round where I ran Trump AI. This one we all got off on the shuttle. I do remember that round though, I got my shit kicked in medbay when they realized I wasn't the atmos tech I was disguised as.

Wait. You did Trump AI and Undercover Boss in the same round?

[Takeguru]

Captain's should definitely be well within their right to dunk on mutineers

Political shit aside, there's nothing wrong with that lawset

[Archie700]

Depends on how stupid the law is. Of course, we wouldn't probably kill the captain, just probably demote and perma.

Of course, mutiny's when the captain has proven to be so detrimental to the station, i.e. recalling shuttle when tesla and singulo is loose, handing out all access like candy to assistants, trying to deny the blob exists and arresting people for it.

These are a few of the rounds I have seen where shit captains decide to be stupid.

Also, Trump AI is a shit meme that needs to die IMO

[tedward1337]

I prefer medieval lawset
no one seems to get upset with them, and everyone plays along.