Do people not buy Syndicate Encryption Keys anymore?

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:56 am #139992

I haven't seen anybody get the syndicate key in a few weeks. I always get one immediately at roundstart if I'm a traitor, and the channel is dead. I remember everybody buying them for a while after their cost was reduced. Why did they fall out of favor? Just being able to listen in to security and command is immensely useful, and it always helps to have a buddy. Is there a reason people aren't getting them? Am I missing something? They are in my opinion the single best traitor item by far, both in value and utility.

leibniz · Post by **leibniz** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:13 am #139994

Well, traitors could receive a notice when someone buys one.
Or maybe it should be refundable by using your key on your unlocked uplink.

Post by **oranges** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:29 am #139995

they should be free, so here's a key giveway

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/13603

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:44 am #139996

People just need to stop buying shitty holoparasites and get the keys instead.

Takeguru · Post by **Takeguru** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:05 am #140000

I buy them when I don't meme with the random crate.

I roll traitor so rarely though.

Cik · Post by **Cik** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:04 am #140005

nobody buys syndikeys? why though?

i mean, there's a pretty good chance that you will hit the jackpot and get a syndicate AI, which is of course like 50 TC worth of power as long as you can bargain with it, and even if you can only get one other human it's easily worth the 2 tc.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:11 am #140006

Takeguru wrote:I buy them when I don't meme with the random crate.

I roll traitor so rarely though.

Random crate is way too fun to not have a guaranteed encryption key in it. Oranges, put that in there instead.

Cuboos · Post by **Cuboos** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:23 am #140007

i don't buy syndicate encryption keys anymore for one specific reason. I was a traitor one time, bought a key, a binary key and a hacked AI module. I got into contact with other agents and then subverted the AI. Everything was going great, AI was doing an amazing job as a subverted AI without drawing unwanted attention, other traitors helped me with their objectives and i helped with theirs. Shuttle gets called, think we're about to get greentext. Suddenly security officers out of fucking no where, i get taken down and killed, fellow tator bros get taken down along with AI. Ghost to sec and see a traitor Lawyer ratting us out. The round ends and shows us our gear. Traitor Lawyer has a syndicate key, obviously was listening in on us and ratted us out in exchange for being exempted from law. Further supported by two other traitors getting green text and not having syndicate keys. Nothing could be done either because, "tritor", "valid", "suppose to back stab".

After that, it no longer felt worth it, if all the syndicate key was going to do is increase my risk of being caught.

Post by **oranges** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:12 am #140012

I could make the channel anonymous, although I don't know how much it would help

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:31 am #140014

Cik wrote:nobody buys syndikeys? why though?

i mean, there's a pretty good chance that you will hit the jackpot and get a syndicate AI, which is of course like 50 TC worth of power as long as you can bargain with it, and even if you can only get one other human it's easily worth the 2 tc.

Funny story about that, actually. One time, I was a traitor AI and a bunch of people got keys. We collaborated and killed our targets, but after about 15 minutes I realized it was double agents. Knowing that one of them would come after me eventually, I systematically killed them all. Every. single. one.

Cuboos wrote:i don't buy syndicate encryption keys anymore for one specific reason. I was a traitor one time, bought a key, a binary key and a hacked AI module. I got into contact with other agents and then subverted the AI. Everything was going great, AI was doing an amazing job as a subverted AI without drawing unwanted attention, other traitors helped me with their objectives and i helped with theirs. Shuttle gets called, think we're about to get greentext. Suddenly security officers out of fucking no where, i get taken down and killed, fellow tator bros get taken down along with AI. Ghost to sec and see a traitor Lawyer ratting us out. The round ends and shows us our gear. Traitor Lawyer has a syndicate key, obviously was listening in on us and ratted us out in exchange for being exempted from law. Further supported by two other traitors getting green text and not having syndicate keys. Nothing could be done either because, "tritor", "valid", "suppose to back stab".

After that, it no longer felt worth it, if all the syndicate key was going to do is increase my risk of being caught.

Traitors need to be considered soft team antags. It's one thing to kill another traitor for gear, but this is blatant metagaming. If they key ends up in sec's hands and they use it, it's fair game. If a traitor buys one specifically for sec and they accept it, the traitor and sec who go along with it should both be banned under rule 1. Traitor for blatant griefing, and sec for letting an antag go deliberately. This sort of behavior ruins the round for everybody.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:44 am #140017

Luke Cox wrote:and sec for letting an antag go deliberately.

I was with you up until this. Regular traitors aren't a problem if you strike a deal with them. Generally identifiable and can keep track of them.
It's when sec starts trusting lings is when I start to wonder if they're fit for the job.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:45 am #140018

Saegrimr wrote:
Luke Cox wrote:and sec for letting an antag go deliberately.
I was with you up until this. Regular traitors aren't a problem if you strike a deal with them. Generally identifiable and can keep track of them.
It's when sec starts trusting lings is when I start to wonder if they're fit for the job.

Eh, fair enough. Still though, the behavior that he described should be grounds for an immediate ban.

And the HoS in that scenario was a fucking amateur. What you do, is you strike the deal, catch all the antags, and offer the double agent a congratulatory drink, only for him to discover that it's laced with a lethal dose of poison from his own uplink when he drinks it.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:53 am #140023

Luke Cox wrote:What you do, is you strike the deal, catch all the antags, and offer the double agent a congratulatory drink, only for him to discover that it's laced with a lethal dose of poison from his own uplink when he drinks it.

I wish there were "badass tokens" that I could hand out for people who actually manage to pull shit like this off.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:57 am #140026

Saegrimr wrote:
Luke Cox wrote:and sec for letting an antag go deliberately.
I was with you up until this. Regular traitors aren't a problem if you strike a deal with them. Generally identifiable and can keep track of them.
It's when sec starts trusting lings is when I start to wonder if they're fit for the job.

I always strike a deal with any traitor who isn't in for bombing or murder.
I also always keep my end of the bargain, because redtext hunting is objectively shit.

If I'm not loyalty-implanted I tend to passively accept lings. As Chaplain, I usually trade my life in exchange for body disposal access and harmless diversions, and haven't gotten burned yet.
Typically because the ling gets found, at which point I duck into the nearest disposal.

Ricotez · Post by **Ricotez** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:14 pm #140031

never trust a changeling, once they get caught they'll spill everything they know

I used syndikeys a few times in the past, knowing exactly what Command and Security are up to is extremely useful but I wish the Syndicate channel would get more use too

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:28 pm #140034

Thing is, once the changeling spills its guts all evidence of its crimes is already ashes.
Which I dutifully clean up and claim the changeling must have been thorough in not leaving traces while I was out proselytising.

Alternatively, I burn the shipping manifests, claim it broke in for the 'lathe, shit like that.

Lumbermancer · Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:36 pm

I buy them all the time to rat out other tators to security.

Post by **MMMiracles** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:44 pm #140064

Lumbermancer wrote:I buy them all the time to rat out other tators to security.

This is probably one of the reasons why most people don't talk over the syndicate channel.

Lumbermancer · Sun Dec 13, 2015 3:46 pm

Probably not because only I do that.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:34 pm #140070

...suddenly Luke's idea of fucking over a traitor for collaborating with sec seems very appealing.

Lumbermancer · Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:41 pm

Whatever gets the job done.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 4:54 pm #140078

>tfw you realise even as traitors secplayers are playing shitcurity

Why didn't I figure this out sooner.

Amelius · Post by **Amelius** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:03 pm #140084

Since you can hear adjacent radio channels, any tator with a syndie key is easily identifiable in the most mundane of circumstances unless you toggle the syndie channel constantly (and even then, the other channels are a dead giveaway - "assistant-san, why do you have access to the command channel?".

Thus, if even a single tator with a key gets arrested by a vaguely aware security guard, they'll notice that they have a syndieradio, take the key, and root out every single traitor that speaks.

Lumbermancer · Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:11 pm

DemonFiren wrote:>tfw you realise even as traitors secplayers are playing shitcurity

Why didn't I figure this out sooner.

>tfw someone doesn't want to participate in forced team mode and rather plays solo because fucking others over is more entertaining

Welcome to ss13.

Cheimon · Post by **Cheimon** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:12 pm #140087

I stopped buying them when it became common for certain security officers to search traitors for them. It's very easy to check a headset on an otherwise confirmed traitor, and it then means that anyone who speaks gets silently tased and beaten to death.

It's no fun getting killed for trying to coordinate with other players, some of whom actively want to kill you despite you being on the same side, so why bother? Even command/security channel isn't that useful if it's the one thing that gives you away in a search.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:18 pm #140098

Only time I ever used one I got fucking rekt by Francium and a tater AI after I gave them all access because I was the AI's target. Never used one since

onleavedontatme · Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:46 pm

We already have like 10 team antag modes I can't believe people are seriously discussing enforcing cooperation in traitor.

Or I guess I can believe it with all the meta antag checks/protected roles/team huds but it's still dissapointing to see more demand for team death match

TheNightingale · Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:48 pm

I'd rather have "team cooperation" than "team deathmatch". Traitors working together to complete their objectives, break each other out of perma, hide evidence... not just four people running around with laser guns shooting everyone.

Zilenan91 · Post by **Zilenan91** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:49 pm #140114

I stopped using syndicate keys after I got killed because it was DA. I really like them conceptually but if their whole purpose gets you killed 40% of the time it's just not worth it.

Also it's not that we want enforced cooperation, it's that we want some kind of protection from regular traitors, not DA's, from ratting us out and ruining the round for everybody because all the antags died in 10 minutes.

onleavedontatme · Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:54 pm

TheNightingale wrote:I'd rather have "team cooperation" than "team deathmatch". Traitors working together to complete their objectives, break each other out of perma, hide evidence... not just four people running around with laser guns shooting everyone.

>enforcing a team up of traitors vs sec isnt team death match but letting traitors backstab eachother somehow is

Okay

Lumbermancer · Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:55 pm

TheNightingale wrote:I'd rather have "team cooperation" than "team deathmatch". Traitors working together to complete their objectives, break each other out of perma, hide evidence... not just four people running around with laser guns shooting everyone.

Yes, I'm all for that, when it takes effort. Having a radio channel like this makes cooperation effortless.

If you walk up to me and say codewords, I will gladly team up. Always did. Ask Pax.

TheNightingale · Sun Dec 13, 2015 5:59 pm

I asked about making traitors see codewords in a different colour, but it wouldn't be possible - it'd scan on every say, then check to see if each person hearing it is a traitor or not, and then highlight it for them. Saying a codeword over comms would make everything go horribly wrong. Since that can't exist, codewords will rarely be used - they're like the syndicate key but weaker (harder to detect, harder to use, no comms listening-in), and there's no guarantee another traitor won't hear you and rat you out.

IcePacks · Post by **IcePacks** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:10 pm #140131

i'll buy them if you buy them first, shithead

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:15 pm #140146

Zilenan91 wrote:I stopped using syndicate keys after I got killed because it was DA. I really like them conceptually but if their whole purpose gets you killed 40% of the time it's just not worth it.

Also it's not that we want enforced cooperation, it's that we want some kind of protection from regular traitors, not DA's, from ratting us out and ruining the round for everybody because all the antags died in 10 minutes.

You're a shitposter, but this here you got right.

Post by **oranges** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:51 pm #140165

please dont' derail the thread with a policy discussion

ShadowDimentio · Sun Dec 13, 2015 8:57 pm

I have better shit to spend my points on than a dice roll for a potential ally/enemy/nothing.

Like seriously, I've never once bought the keys. It's just not worth it.

Helios · Post by **Helios** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:24 pm #140181

There is one way of getting in touch with other traitors to team up, no encryption key required
1. Wait for someone to suicide in HoP line
2. Steal their PDA
3.Message everyone code words using their PDA
4.Wait for someone to respond with proper code words
5.meet them

Lumbermancer · Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:56 pm

Helios wrote:There is one way of getting in touch with other traitors to team up, no encryption key required
1. Wait for someone to suicide in HoP line
2. Steal their PDA
3.Message everyone code words using their PDA
4.Wait for someone to respond with proper code words
5.meet them

>everyone reports codewords to security
>security goes to snoop on messages
>finds guy who responded with codewords

Well done James Bond.

Not-Dorsidarf · Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am

Make the voice changer gas mask 1tc.

Boom now you chat all day on traitor channel... as your target.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:59 pm #140197

What if the voice changer and encryption key could be purchased as a 3-4 TC combo?

Bluespace · Post by **Bluespace** » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:28 pm #140200

until the syndikey is free it will not be commonplace
make it free and anonymous.
it'll foster lots more roleplay i fuckin' assure you.

Post by **oranges** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:18 am #140211

free/anonymous/in the mind like binary/unable to be used by non antag

Helios · Post by **Helios** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:14 am #140219

Lumbermancer wrote:
Helios wrote:There is one way of getting in touch with other traitors to team up, no encryption key required
1. Wait for someone to suicide in HoP line
2. Steal their PDA
3.Message everyone code words using their PDA
4.Wait for someone to respond with proper code words
5.meet them
>everyone reports codewords to security
>security goes to snoop on messages
>finds guy who responded with codewords

Well done James Bond.

From personal experience, people respond with fake code words that they guessed.
How does sec find out that the code response isn't "brig doctor's delight" and is actually "Engineering Whiskey"

Cik · Post by **Cik** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:24 am #140222

well i mean there's always the arrest everyone option

which they'll probably do.

rdght91 · Post by **rdght91** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 3:46 am #140234

Once I rolled traitor AI and got to help out my little traitor buddies do traitor things. That was only a couple weeks ago and 2 of them had headsets.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 4:15 pm #140386

Amelius wrote:Since you can hear adjacent radio channels, any tator with a syndie key is easily identifiable in the most mundane of circumstances unless you toggle the syndie channel constantly (and even then, the other channels are a dead giveaway - "assistant-san, why do you have access to the command channel?".

Thus, if even a single tator with a key gets arrested by a vaguely aware security guard, they'll notice that they have a syndieradio, take the key, and root out every single traitor that speaks.

Actually Syndie keys are silent, people can scream "Turn down for what?" on the Syndicate/Command channel while you're standing next to the HoS and he won't hear it. Not unless they changed things *very* recently and haven't made a changelog (ban coders 2016)

IcePacks · Post by **IcePacks** » Mon Dec 14, 2015 8:34 pm #140442

Cik wrote:well i mean there's always the arrest everyone option

which they'll probably do.

justice is blind and in a berserker rage

Drynwyn · Post by **Drynwyn** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 2:41 am #140504

IcePacks wrote:
Cik wrote:well i mean there's always the arrest everyone option

which they'll probably do.
justice is blind and in a berserker rage

and shockingly well armed and appears to be setting a lot of things on fire
ah, wait, that's not justice, that's justice's cousin, blind murderlust

Cuboos · Post by **Cuboos** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:13 am #140545

maybe just remove syndicate keys? it sounds like i'm not the only one who's had that issue. unless there's going to be a policy change to traitor (like making those with synidcate keys illegal to rat others out), it's just pointless. It's a big "rat me out" object. Seriously if you take the key just to rat others out, you have no room to complain about "being forced into coop antags"

Cik · Post by **Cik** » Tue Dec 15, 2015 10:28 am #140549

i've cooperated with more people than i've been betrayed by.

it's in everyone's best interest to cooperate, unless it's DA

in which case it's DA that's a risk w/e