Killing Golems FNR (Bothering people)

[Tornadium]

So,

According to our two newest headmins it's kosher to beat Golems to death for "bothering the superior race".

I'll update the thread with more information in a minute because round where this came up is still on-going but holy shit their definition of "bothering" is utterly fucking insane.

[onleavedontatme]

Can we expand this rule to cover lizards?

[Tornadium]

Can we expand this rule to cover lizards?

Not even I would say you can beat a lizard to death for literally dragging a bed two tiles so you can join a train of beds.

[imblyings]

Well we don't expand the protection to anything else coming from xenobio, being humanoid and having hands doesn't mean you get treated differently. If you want the full gamut of OOC protection, join as a human, if you're feeling lucky, join as a lizard. If you die, can't get cloned and don't want to be or can't be a positronic brain, and instead choose to be spawned in as a sentient creature from xenobio, expect to be treated as such. It's not nice but that's how it is.

[TheNightingale]

Doesn't Rule One exist for this sort of thing? Killing anyone, regardless of species, for no raisin is a bad thing to do.

[imblyings]

Like I said, we've allowed killing sentient animals, xenobio mobs and polymorph mobs for that matter since forever, I'm not entirely sure why xenobio golems should be treated differently or receive more protections over the former.

[lollerderby]

According to our two newest headmins it's kosher to beat Golems to death for "bothering the superior race".

I'll update the thread with more information in a minute because round where this came up is still on-going but holy shit their definition of "bothering" is utterly fucking insane.

I don't know why you keep lumping me into this when I explicitly said I disagree with it multiple times.

[imblyings]

maybe the ahelp conversation made it seem that way.

I've put my understanding of policy and past policy itt, if for some reason golems are found to be deserving of more protections than other xenobio stuff then that'll be what is enforced in the future.

[Tornadium]

So just to be clear, I can without ANY reason just Dunk a Golem and have no administrative repercussions at all?

Like I can literally beat them to death for pulling an empty bed 2 tiles and trying to get on the bed to join the bed train?

[lollerderby]

Well we don't expand the protection to anything else coming from xenobio, being humanoid and having hands doesn't mean you get treated differently. If you want the full gamut of OOC protection, join as a human, if you're feeling lucky, join as a lizard. If you die, can't get cloned and don't want to be or can't be a positronic brain, and instead choose to be spawned in as a sentient creature from xenobio, expect to be treated as such. It's not nice but that's how it is.

I don't see why we should have a blanket 'everything from xeno is valid at all times' policy, that doesn't seem much fun for xenobiologists or any of their creations. Some things you should definitely be able to kill if they're roaming free just because they're so volatile and hazardous to have wandering about the station sentient or not, but running around beating anything player-controlled to death just because you can seems pretty dickish to me.

[Tornadium]

I would have assumed even if Golems didn't have as much protection literally just beating one to death because you could is just being a complete cunt.

[imblyings]

Ok fair enough, I've always seen this from the point of view of anyone lucky enough to be spawned in after dying or observing to deal with having to die again, especially if the method of respawn is common enough to happen again.

Yeah killing everything player controlled that you come across is dickish but if protection is to be given to xenomob creatures, what is this protection exactly?

[Saegrimr]

Golems are probably the closest thing to anything deserving protection, they're the only (nearly) fully functioning humanoid. That said if one of them proves to be hostile, the rest can easily be assumed hostile due to how they follow orders.

Shit like blobbernauts and slimes being hit with sentience potions can pose a huge risk and is difficult to tell if its a hostile mob, hostile player, or friendly player. Slimes especially being as strong as they are.

[lumipharon]

Killing sentient mobs FNR is pretty fucking shitty - that said, the amount of time I've been doing R&D and a bunch of golems come in and print 50 fuckings things (guns they can't use even if they had pins, fucking 12 BoH's etc), then attack or even murder me when I tell them to fuck off, is just astounding. And this isn't even their master tellin them to, they're just like wew, time to gear up and valid people.

[Tornadium]

Killing sentient mobs FNR is pretty fucking shitty - that said, the amount of time I've been doing R&D and a bunch of golems come in and print 50 fuckings things (guns they can't use even if they had pins, fucking 12 BoH's etc), then attack or even murder me when I tell them to fuck off, is just astounding. And this isn't even their master tellin them to, they're just like wew, time to gear up and valid people.

Well this wasn't one of those cases, literally dragged a bed over to join the line of beds flying around the corridor and Jayden Rich just beat me to fucking death.

[TheNightingale]

You'd get further with a ban request, I suspect. "Jayden Rich beat a golem to death FNR" or something along those lines.

[Tornadium]

No sense making a ban request until I figure out if this is policy or not

Admin PM from-Ausops: Perhaps you shouldn't have moved beds the superior race were using

[AnonymousNow]

That seems pointlessly shitty, and really indicative of a poisonous mindset that has been seeping into the server for literally years now - that is, "VALID VALID VALID KILL IT SPACE IT BURN IT".

[TheNightingale]

I think Ausops was joking. I mean, nobody actually believes you can grief another player for a reason that petty...
... right?

[Tornadium]

I think Ausops was joking. I mean, nobody actually believes you can grief another player for a reason that petty...
... right?

Nope that was basically the gist of the entire adminhelp.

He said it's "all kinds of valid in more ways than one".

[Xhagi]

To be fair, never have I heard of golems being protected due to the fact they were always, from what I understood, considered valid, even if it was helping out as best it can and not at all bothering anyone. Some people just have that 'VALID VALID KILL IT' mentality as you said.

However, I wouldn't mind seeing some degree of protection over golems if just because I'm not a big fan of that mentality. Not so much over player controlled simple mobs, though.

[AnonymousNow]

Ausops, huh? Not the first issue with him. I should go look at his feedback thread.

EDIT: Wow, Ausops. Way to be inconsistent.

[imblyings]

Like I said, I've always seen and treated xenobio produce as expendable methods of players to respawn in. If you ever end up playing those roles, you've already had your chance or you observed in the first place, so it's poor form whining about being killed on a server where things die easy. Maybe the server has moved in a direction where people expect continuous OOC protection regardless of their role and aren't able to feel less strongly about dying, which if it has, alright that's where we'll take things.

I'm still going to stand by singling out golems as some sort of precious snowflake not to be griffed fnr being stupid. If we're going by rule 1, it's entirely possible for people to have their fun ruined harder while playing a simple animal than a golem.

[Tornadium]

So this is an actual admin ruling? I can literally just kill any Golem I feel like FNR?

[CPTANT]

man this stuff is getting random.

Loot entire armory and smash all windows in sec - IC issue
just shouting "kill the lizards" on the radio - ban
kill golems for no raisin - IC issue

[Not-Dorsidarf]

I don't believe that killing golems for fun should be a bannable offense any more than killing drones is (At least golems can fight back).

But people who do it genuinely fnr should get a note each time they do it so that admins can look at his notes if he kills the clown for fun and go "Oh man look at this shitter" instead of "Hmm, no notes"

[Tornadium]

man this stuff is getting random.

Loot entire armory and smash all windows in sec - IC issue
just shouting "kill the lizards" on the radio - ban
kill golems for no raisin - IC issue

Yeah it's super fucking weird and inconsistent. It totally falls under the don't be a dick rule tbh.

[ShadowDimentio]

Don't kill player creatures for no reason. If it's griefing, kill it. If it's bothering the shit out of you, kill it. If it walks into the hall and wants to join your sick ass drag train, don't kill it.

This isn't fucking rocket science. Don't be dicks.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

Don't kill player creatures for no reason. If it's griefing, kill it. If it's bothering the shit out of you, kill it. If it walks into the hall and wants to join your sick ass drag train, don't kill it.

This isn't fucking rocket science. Don't be dicks.

Stuff like slimes and morphs are super-deadly though. If a player-controlled slime decided "FUCK U", then you're gonna die unless youre in a very public place (ongass infinite damaging stuns, deals clone damage)

Thats why people kill the shit out of unstunnable hyperspeed simpleanimals

[AnonymousNow]

Don't kill player creatures for no reason. If it's griefing, kill it. If it's bothering the shit out of you, kill it. If it walks into the hall and wants to join your sick ass drag train, don't kill it.

This isn't fucking rocket science. Don't be dicks.

[ShadowDimentio]

Don't kill player creatures for no reason. If it's griefing, kill it. If it's bothering the shit out of you, kill it. If it walks into the hall and wants to join your sick ass drag train, don't kill it.

This isn't fucking rocket science. Don't be dicks.

Stuff like slimes and morphs are super-deadly though. If a player-controlled slime decided "FUCK U", then you're gonna die unless youre in a very public place (ongass infinite damaging stuns, deals clone damage)

Thats why people kill the shit out of unstunnable hyperspeed simpleanimals

So can players, but people don't kill each other just because.

[Grazyn]

Don't forget that this is a very light RP server, meaning that if there's an admin ruling saying that golems can be killed on a whim, then they WILL be killed on a whim whenever someone has the chance to do so. We already have people wordlessly walking in xenobio to kill all the peaceful sentient mobs because it's allowed, but it's not a great deal since most mobs are just useless gimmicks made for fun. Golems on the other hand are usually made as bodyguards or menial workers, so I don't really see the point of making them valid

[ExplosiveCrate]

Though it also begs the question, if someone is just wordlessly killing your golems, does that make them valid?

[MrMindless]

that's indeed a fairly good question
as xenobiologist how far can you go against someone who's purposely killing your golems/mobs
Same with the golems/mobs. Sure them being able to kill someone who attempts to kill them them should be obvious (would be real stupid if it weren't) but how about other golems proactively assaulting someone who's known for killing golems without a decent reason?
Also about the "expendable respawn" justification, wouldn't that also make positronic brains and everything created with them automatically ALSO as valid as golems?