Gang Mode

[Boogeyman]

Normally there are at least three gangs on station. Within the first five minutes the Gang Leader from each perspective gang (usually one in each department) recruits at least 3 people. This would make 12 gangsters total near the very start of the round. It takes two implants to deconvert a gangster, so In order to stop the gang within five minutes of the round you'd need 18 implants. If the gangs are lucky, and Security doesn't find them out till ten minutes into the round let's assume they convert 3 more people respectively. Now Security needs 36 implants! Everyone who plays Security knows how fast Gangs spread and know the importance of loyalty implants in stopping a gang. For this reason the current meta is to raid Cargo and use your starting implants on them. If you are lucky, with this, you have eradicated one Gang. While those converted Techies/QM may stay, the Gang Boss will not be stupid enough to stick around in Cargo. He too knows the meta of the mode. At this point if the Cargo boss is not caught, the Cargo gang falls to the other gangs. Usually not before converting a few stragglers, thus adding more implant fodder to the round.

There are a few ways in which things could go at this point. It depends on:

a. How many Heads of Staff are Gangsters
b. How much Security staff there is
c. How many Gangsters there are total
d. How competent Gangs/Security are.
e. If there are any Security gangsters.

Twenty minutes have now passed since the round has started. You as Head of Security have rounded up all or most of cargo and implanted them all. You release them and order 3 implant crates. You can now safely deconvert... 6 people. After this, the rate at which you will be getting new implants is slowed down dramatically as the supply points dry out. It is possible that this may be your last batch of implants. Meanwhile while Security is preoccupied with Cargo, the other more fortunate gangs have been active. We can assume that 6 more people have been converted to the gang at this point. I expect that on average, at least one Head of Staff has been converted to a gang. If this Head of Staff was the HoP or the RD, things get much tougher. The HoP will give all access to everyone in his Gang who in turn will give out all access, the RD can use their position and authority to get very sensitive AI related materials to subvert the AI. At this point, things are very grim for Security. Most of these things are happening behind the scenes. Let's focus what's happening in plain sight.

Random acts of violence and overt Gang activity are occurring all over the station. Perhaps someone is spraying tags in the halls, shooting at rival gang members, or attempting to murder Security staff. The way that Security works unfortunately, is to chase the most visible and not the most dangerous threat. If you do not focus your officers, it is likely they will respond to all the calls of help scattered throughout the station losing focus as they go on. So what is Security to do? You have a few options:

a. Chase after the overt criminals who often times serve as a diversion to the big plan.
b. Ignore the overt criminals and chase after Head's of Staff and the gang leaders.
c. Try to split up your Security force to attempt both at once.

If you are to choose option A, the big plan goes under way behind the scenes and you will likely succumb to it. If you are to choose option B you have the highest chance of success, but you may succumb to the wanton violence that goes unchecked due to your focused efforts. If you are to choose option C, you are sure to get mobbed and killed or even worse, recruited into a gang. Another thing that gangs have working for them are the de-implanters. With de-implanters, the Gang can ambush one officer, de-implant, convert, and then sic him on other Security to convert. They can even do this to the Head of Security or Captain! It takes 2 implants to reverse this and it's quite likely at this point, you're running low or out of them. Anything past this point is Security being infiltrated, outnumbered, and outgunned. Usually within.. 30 or 35 minutes into the round. It's pretty much over for Security at this point. The leading Gang (usually the Science gang that has subverted the AI) then power games the best dominator placement and surrounds it with field generators or R-walls.

Lastly, I've noticed one other thing about Gang. One Gang round I had managed to catch two gang heads within the first five minutes of the round. I incinerated both of their corpses. You'd think this would benefit me right? Quite the opposite. Due to the other gang having basically NO opposition, they snowballed into a force greater then any other gang I had ever seen. They converted just about everyone on the station. I think by the end of the round they had 37 people in their gang? I was punished for catching the other Gang Leaders.

This is usually what happens in my experience, that or the Gang fails spectacularly. It's not really fun to play and requires extreme meta gaming to counter on part of Security. I'd suggest at the least, reducing the implant cost to ONE. I'd also throw out removing, or limiting the amount of de-implanters the Gang members could buy. That's all!

[Saegrimr]

Theres a reason it takes two implants instead of one like in rev, you're not supposed to rely on them.

[Boogeyman]

Theres a reason it takes two implants instead of one like in rev, you're not supposed to rely on them.

Gangs are more dangerous then revolutionaries. They can convert Security and Heads of Staff to their cause. They also get guns. The only way to stop a Gangster from being a gangster is to kill them or implant them. If you are not to rely on implants then what are you supposed to rely on? Murder everyone indiscriminately?

[Ikarrus]

Just posting here to say that I'm currerntly burnt the fuck out of SS13 for the moment.

So while I appreciate the valuable feedback you've provided here, I haven't played the game for a while now, so I don't feel that I am the best fit to be making any further gameplay changes. I mostly hang out these days for the community and the occasional bug fix for my broken shit. I invite other coders to come in and make changes for gang mode because I won't be able to.

I've found that gang is considerably more fun when it involves gang vs gang conflict. Part of the reason why security may feel neutered is because I've deliberately designed it in such a way that they're not expected to win most rounds, as security is just one of many "teams". While this may be upsetting for you, I completely agree with you that security still feels out of place in gang right now. It's been a problem since Day 1 that I'm still trying to resolve.

Just keep in mind that the asymmetrical conflict between security and crew is a niche already filled by rev and we should avoid heading in that direction.

[Scones]

I have to agree with basically everything written here.

Ikarrus since day one has been talking about how "Security is out of place" in gang but still does not seem to realize that you cannot declare a department as being simply unsuited for a gamemode, particularly in the context of antags and Security. There is no way to implement pure antag v antag while there is still a Security presence on the station. You can't expect them to sit around and twiddle their thumbs while VIOLENT, ARMED CRIMINALS with the capability to convert COMMAND STAFF and SECURITY PERSONNEL exist and run rampant, all the while increasing their arms and numbers.

Security isn't intended to win, obviously, between the double implants and speed at which gangs can spread. I can't contest what is a fact proven by many rounds witnessed, participated in (On BOTH sides), and heard tell of, combined with mention from the maker of the gamemode itself. But that's terrible. That is seriously one of the most terrible design approaches posible - Security being THIS unable to win against even remotely competent gangs just makes me not want to play the department at all when there is a chance of gamemodes which are described as "You are not meant to win and I have designed the gamemode so that you cannot."

It's a nice thought, and gang sure has come a long way from "team rev" back many months ago. But I don't think it's good, and I don't even know where to begin fixing it. People need to accept that violent team antag that converts and deconverts via implants = aggressive security response is the only viable tactic if you want to survive, much less "win". You can never marginalize a department who revolves around protecting the station from threats.

Implant breakers are also extremely cheap, just as an important point: The gang round the OP is mentioning (Wherein I was actually the last surviving member of Security, and had the nefarious gang plan explained to me before I was killed) featured the winning gang investing in nothing but implant breaks - Simply because there is no better investment. Why arm yourself with precious influence when you can convert someone to get you arms and access? Anyone who entered medbay was implant broken and converted. Everyone I implanted ended up in that gang base, having been broken and converted, all in a very short period of time.

Just really not fun.

Double edit: I posted this but edited it after Lumi, to which I have to say - You are disserviceing the station by allowing gangs to expand and run rampant. The only hope is to shut them down early or you will be UNABLE to "hold the fort" as you put it, with everyone getting implant broken and the gangster populations skyrocketing.

[lumipharon]

You're making it out that gang is abou gang v sec.

It isn't. That's rev.

Gang is gang V gang V gang V sec.

If, as sec, you're trying to hold the whole station, you will fucking lose unless you're MLGpr0 robust, and all the gangsters are incompetent.

Gangsters shooting each other inthe halls? Fuck em, stay out of it. Either way there will be less gangsters for you to deal with later.

Your main job is to stop everything from going to complete shit.

The main two things being:
Stop the AI from getting subverted
Stop gangs getting all access.

If either of those things happen, you're basically fucked.

Gang is very much a gamemode about attrition. Occasionally one gang or sec will just roll everyone else in the first 10 minutes, but usually, it comes to grinding the enemy factions out of existance over time.

Also don't waste implants double implanting everyone - gangsters can bypass them fairly cheaply anyway - it's only important for people like the hop/cargo, so they dont get penned in the corridor early on.
It's much better to deconvert 2 gangsters then to get one loyalty implanted.

Basically, hold the fort, stun and search everyone that comes near your shit, implant who you can, execute gangsters you can't, then shit all over the gangs when they eventually place a dominator (spam flashbangs everywhere, non stop).
Coming in at the end to crucify the dominant (heh) gang is honestly the most viable way for sec to succeed.

Trying to directly fight the gangs all round will get you dead - you are outnumbered, outgunned - you'll die in a fire if you try.

[lumipharon]

Double edit: I posted this but edited it after Lumi, to which I have to say - You are disserviceing the station by allowing gangs to expand and run rampant. The only hope is to shut them down early or you will be UNABLE to "hold the fort" as you put it, with everyone getting implant broken and the gangster populations skyrocketing.

We're talking different points in the round here. Shit on the gangs as hard as you can for as long as you can, but once you start losing (which is highly likely), if you keep trying to do the same thing you're just going to get butchered.

[Cheimon]

While I agree that security has a tricky part to play in gang, I have seen them do well sitting on gangs early and thoroughly. Implant breakers may be cheap, but they're not free, and they make spontaneous conversion much harder (you need to restrain and stun someone over just jabbing them with a pen). Early on, this really matters.

But even accepting that security's place in gang is not perfect, I still feel that it's at least as fun as many other game modes, including revolution, cult, and malfunction. I play security a lot and I don't think it's uniquely tricky or un-fun for them. You have to fight vigorously as security and you won't always win in spite of your best efforts, but to me it manages nonetheless to feel relatively fair and without bullshit. Equally, the chance for gangs to convert security members more easily is a nice departure from revolution, and it means I might get to stay in the round a little better as a security officer, which is hardly a bad thing.

Lumi, I'm not disagreeing with you about tactics for when you're starting to lose as security. Those sound pretty sensible to me at least.

[Oldman Robustin]

There's only a couple things sec/AI have to do to hold the line.

1) Cargo is your new HQ, fortify it, keep it safe, keep it secure, implant the cargo personnel + HoP first, the points must flow...

2) Hit toxins from maint, grab those valves and ensure RND never gets its hands on rare mineral. Since you control cargo+mining all that means is keeping those pesky nerds out of the vault.

3) The rest is just using common sense, getting others implanted, and giving them a PURPOSE in your cargo base so they don't wander off out of boredom and either get converted or killed for their access. Double implants are a luxury only reserved for a few, anyone who's deconverted but not important enough for a 2nd implant should always be kept with patrol groups/raiding parties/or just defense. People will not bother jabbing crew with pens if they're marching with a security team and wearing security gear... they'll just assume implants at that point, and even if they wanted to risk it, good luck rushing a flurry of taser fire with your pen.


Treat sec like the 4th gang, give your members a purpose, don't just send them back to their depts,

[Boogeyman]

Well, I forgot this thread existed. There is quite a lot wrong with what you've said Robustin, but luckily for you I no longer feel the need to go into detail why. I seemed to have figured out a new meta based on the things you've said and what others have said. I've yet to put it into practice, but I feel like it is the best way of handling Gang.

There is one thing that affects Gang mode that will likely stay constant because it affects other game modes. That would be the loyalty implant crate cost and the supply point regain rate. At the current cost and rate, if I were to implant Cargo and rely on them for the entirety of the round, I'd get five crates maximum, 3 of which would be starting crates. At the rate Gang expends implants, and the rate at which implants come in, you need to be wise with your implants. So, which department is the most dangerous to Security in gang? Which departmental gang succeeds the most? Science is the answer. So if you are smart, you'd want to pour all your implants into Science. But without cargo you cannot get the extra 12 implants! Quite the conundrum! Well, not really.

It's simple really. The minute you hear there are gangs you secure the two implant lock boxes you have and rally all of your officers to Cargo. You shoot and detain anyone in Cargo and use their ID's to order implants. You keep the Cargo members in cuffs, pulled with no chance of escape. You search everyone you currently have in possession, if one of them is a gangster you execute them on the spot and space their corpse out the mining airlock. If anyone enters, shoot them. It is highly likely that Security will outnumber the amount of Cargo employees and you only need to hold Cargo for about 3 or 4 minutes. After that is done, you drag the crate containing the implants to the brig. You now have 20 unused implants. The next step would be to rally all of your officers to Science. The Warden would come along as well, bringing the entirety of the armory and the implants with him. Security would shoot, cuff, and double implant anyone they see. Science would be the new base of operations. I highly doubt that there would be more then 10 employees in Science, so you should still have SOME implants left. That would go to the HoP and CE. Further implants are no longer necessary. You now own science. You have access to the bombs, the AI and borgs, the advanced weapons, and a good portion of the station. From there, it would just be a game of picking off people in medbay from the Genetics entrance. Shoot, cuff, drag, search. Gang stuff? Execute and shoot them out the toxins testing mass driver.

I feel like this is a pretty good plan! But I've yet to test it.

[Boogeyman]

In addition, you now have six bombs you can use against enemy dominators! The xenobiology pens make for nice holding cells as well if for some reason you want to keep someone held in place.

[Scones]

We still don't have a thumbs up emote but that's not a bad game plan

Might want to ensure the Warden cleans out the sec gear lockers just to be sure channel is kept secure in the event someone eventually gets Brig access

It really is sad that for Security to WIN a conversion mode, we've been reduced to executing simply because deconverting everyone is not possible.

[Amelius]

We still don't have a thumbs up emote but that's not a bad game plan

Might want to ensure the Warden cleans out the sec gear lockers just to be sure channel is kept secure in the event someone eventually gets Brig access

It really is sad that for Security to WIN a conversion mode, we've been reduced to executing simply because deconverting everyone is not possible.

FYI, I feel if you made it 1 implant to deconvert permanently, gang would be half as fun, since it would become rev with the disadvantage of splintered solidarity, a tougher win condition, and fewer numbers.

Security isn't supposed to have the advantage. The focus is gang v.s. gang, not gang v.s. sec. Thus, secusually ends up in gangs or dead by round's end, unless the force is particularly robust and the HoS / Cap is competent. I feel this is, and should be an intended feature of the mode, wherein, unlike in every other mode, security is not the primary focus of antag action and reaction.

Furthermore, gamemodes in general are far more fun when things fall apart, rather than stay together (extended) for extended periods. I feel we're in a good spot right now, where it's possible for sec to win, but not without arduous effort and a long contention period.

[onleavedontatme]

I feel this is, and should be an intended feature of the mode, wherein, unlike in every other mode, security is not the primary focus of antag action and reaction.

Pretty much this. No harm in breaking from security vs badguys. Not every mode has to be sec hanging around until the antag is spotted and then running off for their 15 seconds of fighting per round.

Killing mobs of people is more fun than deconversion anyway.

[rdght91]

I think it would be vastly improved if the gangs goals were not in direct conflict with security as they are with the current domination thing that destroys everyone. Maybe gang's goals should be to eliminate all other gangs aboard the station, and successfully using a dominator should do something like destroy all other gangs uplinks and pens and label all enemy gang members to make is very easy for whatever gang pulls it off - It would encourage security to try and play them off against each other, and gangs would have a good reason to avoid pissing off security or simply murder every security officer. Of course, they're still free to do it anyway, so security doesn't want one gang become more powerful than the rest until all the gangs are weak enough that they can re-establish full control.

[Scones]

Security is mainly involved because gangs threaten the station with the dominator.

If this was about ACTUAL GANG CONFLICT, yes, security would probably sit on the sidelines a bit more.

[Cobby]

go back to VIP gang when

[Incomptinence]

Even with single implants I would expect sec losing HARD a lot of the time. Unlike rev where an important member of the department dies and a lot of people stop working due to the valids rush and avoiding being caught for a loud messy murder with gang the head converts there ain't a murder those with robust jobs work to make their nasty shit while the less important jobs like say xeno and medical doctor get to spread paint, capture converts or arm up and usually murder the entire sec force.

The mode is strong as fuck I don't think the crutch of double implants for sec is needed the need to order more via cargo requires time and station control putting it mostly on par with how the gangs work.

[Amelius]

Even with single implants I would expect sec losing HARD a lot of the time. Unlike rev where an important member of the department dies and a lot of people stop working due to the valids rush and avoiding being caught for a loud messy murder with gang the head converts there ain't a murder those with robust jobs work to make their nasty shit while the less important jobs like say xeno and medical doctor get to spread paint, capture converts or arm up and usually murder the entire sec force.

The mode is strong as fuck I don't think the crutch of double implants for sec is needed the need to order more via cargo requires time and station control putting it mostly on par with how the gangs work.

Even supposing this is the case (not to say I agree with it), the focus of gang is gang v.s. gang combat, NOT crew v.s. gangs. If security was a real contender in that it wouldn't usually be inducted into the gangs, then the focus completely shifts toward what would basically be rev with guns, which is what we ought to be trying to avoid.

Every roundtype doesn't have to be balanced such that security has an equal chance of prevailing as failing against a threat, rather, I would contest that it's more fun if the odds are stacked against security, at least somewhat, from the crew, sec's, and antag's perspectives. Furthermore, not every gamemode has to revolve around security being the be-all-end-all, with them being the counterweight and balance to the antagonists, requiring that there must be an easily obtainable station wincondition.

[Incomptinence]

They have implant breakers they have implants handled and can counter them with an investment. I said with single implants sec is still hugely disadvantaged the double implant snowflake is redundant we don't need to protect instacoverters like this it ain't bloody cult.

I've seen gang mechs in bloody construction security pales in comparison.

[Boogeyman]

Well I tried out the whole "science plan" a few times. First time. Absolute failure. Got wind of gangs a bit late in the round. We managed to raid cargo pretty well and get the implants. The raid on Science was weak and a lot of us died. Didn't rally sucessfully. Most officers were pretty preoccupied and didn't listen to me. Got wrecked.

Next time, we skipped out on Cargo. Went to Science. Implanted everywhere there. We executed two people going in. Threw em out into space via the mass driver; after this point it was unusable because of some space wind bug. Then we proceeded to raid medbay from science. Caught two more gangsters. Executed and incinerated. WE went out of science and shot and cuffed random people. If they had gang stuff we executed and burned the bodies. Robocopped the AI. Raided medbay again. Shot random people again. Most of the officers who refused to listen to me and stay in science died. Had about 3 people left when we started with around 7 and got a few late joins. The shuttle was predictably very empty. Had maybe 10 people in it? Only two or three gangsters on the shuttle All attempted to kill Sec but were shot. In the end, we caught all the gang heads with casualties near 20. Pretty ridiculous the amount of things needed to go right in order for us to shut down all the gangs.

[imblyings]

It's almost a shame how sec can't just be given temporary team antag status during gang

I mean a lot of the stuff that would make sense from an IC perspective, would also cause so much ahelps.

[Takeguru]

Boogey, I think that was the round with the absolutely retarded warden, right?

I survived to the end, but he slipped while entering the shuttle and I got spaced.

I am still salty, if you couldn't tell.

What kind of fucking warden stuns and cuffs one of his officers for having a fucking laser I mean fuck

[CPTANT]

Boogey, I think that was the round with the absolutely retarded warden, right?

I survived to the end, but he slipped while entering the shuttle and I got spaced.

I am still salty, if you couldn't tell.

What kind of fucking warden stuns and cuffs one of his officers for having a fucking laser I mean fuck

The kind that also goes "NO I CANT GIVE YOU LASERS WITHOUT HOS APPROVAL EVEN THOUGH THE STATION IS RED ALERT AND EVERYONE IS GETTING EATEN BY ALIENS OR BOMBED BY REVOLUTIONARIES"

Half the wardens I see are spineless minions too afraid to decide anything.
The other half are actually running security while the actual hos is doing god knows what.

[Boogeyman]

Boogey, I think that was the round with the absolutely retarded warden, right?

I survived to the end, but he slipped while entering the shuttle and I got spaced.

I am still salty, if you couldn't tell.

What kind of fucking warden stuns and cuffs one of his officers for having a fucking laser I mean fuck

Yeah that was the round. I think the Warden was angry, about the fact that when he was dying I more or less told all active Sec to let him die. I didn't want them to rush off and save a guy who was getting murdered and have them bumrushed and killed in the process. He was pretty mad at me and shot at me a few times as well.

[Tornadium]

Observations from a Gang Round last night.

If a gang is co-ordinated, they will win. Beyond random tase cuffing and implanting people and starting your security "gang" to deal with the threat there is little you can do before one or more of the gangs reach a critical mass. So basically you treat it like rev with a greater need for implants.

Then you're walking into a firefight where the defenders can funnel you, have effective ballistic weapons that will rape you, Probably have mechs or some other shit like a bomb and probably have at least one or two heads in the gang making shit even more confusing.

[Takeguru]

Security isn't meant to be a power player in gang.
They can be, with efficient leadership and some robustness out of the rank and file, but it's a round where the antags actually antag, and security isn't center stage.

[lumipharon]

More and more gang rounds I see, one gang will just convert all of sec - it's a fucking snowball effect.
You stun one sec guy, implan breaker them, then they help you convert more sec, until 10 minutes later all of sec is gang, and you can hilariously poop on other gangs as corrupt cops.

[CPTANT]

More and more gang rounds I see, one gang will just convert all of sec - it's a fucking snowball effect.
You stun one sec guy, implan breaker them, then they help you convert more sec, until 10 minutes later all of sec is gang, and you can hilariously poop on other gangs as corrupt cops.

Only idiots don't cuff an unimplanted officer on sight, especially during gang.

[Tornadium]

Security isn't meant to be a power player in gang.
They can be, with efficient leadership and some robustness out of the rank and file, but it's a round where the antags actually antag, and security isn't center stage.

I'm aware they're not meant to be center stage, they are not however meant to be entirely irrelevant. You may as well have security roles locked for the duration of gang for all the good they do trying to not powergame during gang.

[Incomptinence]

So far the best sec strategy for weak implants the mode is basically to get more sec slots open fast and pray for red tide. So this is a race for the hop more than any other mode They also make for a hella good easy gang convert obviously.

[Takeguru]

You see, despite some people clamoring for less powergamey sec, it's the only way to survive rounds like rev or gang.

The revs and the gangs ARE going to powergame, and rev rounds have always lessened up on the overhead sec faces.
I'm certain gang is close enough to receive the same treatment.
Run into sci, implant everyone, take over cargo, steal their points and get more implants.

[Tornadium]

You see, despite some people clamoring for less powergamey sec, it's the only way to survive rounds like rev or gang.

The revs and the gangs ARE going to powergame, and rev rounds have always lessened up on the overhead sec faces.
I'm certain gang is close enough to receive the same treatment.
Run into sci, implant everyone, take over cargo, steal their points and get more implants.

To be honest it's the only way to survive any mode beyond blob at this point.

If you play like a retard and intentionally gimp your self because people don't like it when sec use their brain and common sense you hand yourself over on a platter.

[Atlanta-Ned]

Lemme throw this out there:

At a certain point (yet to be determined) in a gang round, an automated centcom announcement is made stating that they've made a deal with the $GangThatControlsTheLeastTerritory gang and that any remaining implanted crew should help the losing gang defeat the currently winning gang. At that point, everyone's implants break and security/heads can be treated like any other gang member without having to invest in implant breakers.

[Scones]

Lemme throw this out there:

At a certain point (yet to be determined) in a gang round, an automated centcom announcement is made stating that they've made a deal with the $GangThatControlsTheLeastTerritory gang and that any remaining implanted crew should help the losing gang defeat the currently winning gang. At that point, everyone's implants break and security/heads can be treated like any other gang member without having to invest in implant breakers.

Makes 0 sense ICly and I for one would not stop fighting the gangs

[PKPenguin321]

just an observation: RIPLEYs can fuck gang the fuck up
with only basic research you can have science poop out twenty of them within minutes of the round starting
they can tear through any defenses regardless of what they are via drill
they can tear open holes to space on a whim
they can kill the dominator in one hit via drill
they are spaceworthy
they have very decent armor
if there is more than one of them/a sec force supporting them, a RIPLEY will always always always beat a gang no matter how many defenses or how many guards they have, ESPECIALLY if it's the sleeping carp gang who lack ranged weaponry

maybe that's more of an issue with RIPLEYs than it is with gang but still, god damn

[Scones]

another huge advantage being often that it seems people typically dont open up on the ripley

they think it's friendly

for some reason

[PKPenguin321]

another huge advantage being often that it seems people typically dont open up on the ripley

they think it's friendly

for some reason

probably because if it IS friendly there wont be a HuD icon over it, so it's generally safer to assume it's friendly

[Incomptinence]

Habits from rev I suppose in rev the ripleys destruction capabilities are fairly unimportant to revs because they are usually on the offensive and most break ins by it would probably help them anyway.

People in gang should make a habit of actually paying attention to the yellow elephant in the room because they end on a defensive note.

[lumipharon]

Clever gang ploy:
>Get a ripley armed to the gills (diamon drill, RCD, gravpault, reflective armour etc)
>pile all your gang members/sec/clown army into lockers
>pick up lockers with ripley
>stride directly into the middle of the enemy (knock them around with grav if they attack you, so they end up shootin each other/missing
>deploy lockers army
>your team mates can shoot from under the mech, while the mech protects them from return fire

Sadly a ripley will die pretty fast to uzi fire, even with reflective armour, but it would still be pretty funny.

[Incomptinence]

Why only use one? Small group of APC ripleys sounds even funnier.

Gang should be renamed to ripley wars.

[PKPenguin321]

or we could make it so if a gangster is piloting a ripley then other gangsters see their hud icon

[oranges]

Ikarrus since day one has been talking about how "Security is out of place" in gang but still does not seem to realize that you cannot declare a department as being simply unsuited for a gamemode, particularly in the context of antags and Security. There is no way to implement pure antag v antag while there is still a Security presence on the station. You can't expect them to sit around and twiddle their thumbs while VIOLENT, ARMED CRIMINALS with the capability to convert COMMAND STAFF and SECURITY PERSONNEL exist and run rampant, all the while increasing their arms and numbers.

Yes he can it's his gamemode, he can design it how he wants

[Cheimon]

It's his game mode, not his player base. Scones is saying that you can't expect players to react the way you want to your code: you're more likely to get a desirable response by changing the code.

[Incomptinence]

or we could make it so if a gangster is piloting a ripley then other gangsters see their hud icon

Mechs are like lockers man totally hiding the mob inside I dunno how feasible that is

[oranges]

Cheimon the argument was that security needs to be buffed against gang

my argument is if ikarrus wants to make security lose to gang then thats perfectly fine and he can do that because it's his gamemode

players can certainly try to make security win, but complaining is pointless

[Tornadium]

Cheimon the argument was that security needs to be buffed against gang

my argument is if ikarrus wants to make security lose to gang then thats perfectly fine and he can do that because it's his gamemode

players can certainly try to make security win, but complaining is pointless

It doesn't have to be a buff via mechanics.

A better way to deal with it is for Gang and Rev, all gloves are off. Zero admin intervention on Security actions.