/tg/Station 13

Byond account and character name: ForcefulCJS, Oldman Robustin
Admin: BGObandit
Time incident occured: 2:50pm, EST
Detailed summary:

I'm playing an engineer and just chilling for most of the round. AI is rogue and it goes loud with a factory, hacked borgs, the whole shebang. While the AI shit is being dealt with, I see plasma start to flood engineering accompanied by a series of similar cries on the radio, plasma confirmed in medbay, halls, etc.

As an engineer I figure I'm closer than most to try and stop the flooding so I go into atmos maint and RCD into the room from above. Atmos has been burning for a few minutes at this point so I have an opening to get in and shut off the plasma pump. I run in, but the rest of atmos is still burning and I cant even see the pumps, so I start to run out. Unfortunately as I'm running out, a nearby vent spits fire out and ignites me.

No big deal, I ran back into maint and begin rolling to put out the fire. The fire had apparently already been through this part of maint so there was no gas to ignite and the ground was scorched. As I'm rolling on the ground, the Warden opens the maint door about 3 tiles to my left and stands in the doorway. Within 2 seconds he tases me and I start screaming on radio that the Warden is murdering me. He tases me several times more, even switches to a disabler to keep me down even longer, all while im screaming that the warden is killing me and is rogue. Because the warden is standing in the fucking doorway the whole time, the door remains open and plasma from the hall starts to seep into maint. The warden then proceeds to walk away as the plasma reaches my flaming body and it quickly ignites and spreads into the primary halls.

I figured he was just a traitor dressed as warden but fortunately the warden was killed shortly thereafter and I asked him in deadchat what his fucking deal was. His answer was "You were on fire so I had to stop you from spreading fire". I proceeded to tear that response apart noting that: I wasn't at risk of spreading fire until he opened the door, he could tell that I was rolling to put out the fire and I had no suit so I was clearly not enjoying it, that HE actually ended up lighting the halls on fire because he left the fucking door open while my body burned, that he could've just fucking closed the door in the first place, etc.... I make an ahelp but there are no admins on.

I repeat ahelps until BGO shows up. I reiterate what I've said in this post and here is the exchange:

#1 Admin: OK, so, from their perspective, they see someone on fire igniting a fire. Can you try to see things from their perspective.
#1 Admin: From their perspective they saw someone at the scene of a fire. Security is not omniscient.
PM to-Admins: What perspective had me lighting a fire? I was in a maint corridor that had already burnt out so there was no gas or anything to ignite
PM to-Admins: Half the fucking station was on fire, it was a plasma flood and there were reported fires in atmos.
#1 Admin: Please try to see things from the other party's perspective. I don't think this conversation is productive to continue.
PM to-Admins: Jesus christ BGO can you stop being a prick for one moment. Youre not even trying to see my perspective and I dont think you've even asked for theirs, the only perspective im seeing is "BGO doing his best to metagrudge CJS in ahelp"
#1 Admin: I'm not metagrudging you. I tell this same thing to everyone: please consider the other party's perspective when you ahelp
PM to-Admins: Did you even contact the other party?
#1 Admin: No, because from the description you provided, the warden had plausible reasoning to think that you were starting a fire. Security is not omnisicent, and being wrong about someone's intentions is not bannable.
PM to-Admins: So security can kill anyone who gets lit on fire by a plasma fire now?
#1 Admin: No, that isn't what I said at all. As I said, this conversation is not productive at this point.

So there you have it. BGO shows up to a round that he has absolutely 0 knowledge of, hears my ahelp, immediately makes a ruling without investigating and then says conversation is over.

I don't usually make complaints about shitty ahelp responses but this is probably the worst response I've ever seen from one. BGO didn't even ask the other party's intentions, he just made whatever assumptions were necessary to reject my ahelp. I mentioned why the other dude even claimed he had killed me, and the Warden never implied that he thought I had started the fire (only that I was on fire and his heroic murdering helped prevent its spread), and even if he HAD, what kind of fucked up reasoning leads someone to think that a burning person rolling on the ground in maintenance is trying to spread a fire. When I make an ahelp I expect someone to show up and try to HELP resolve the situation, not a fucking adversary who will shut you down ASAP by making as many fantasy assumptions as are necessary to reject your ahelp. Disgraceful.

I really don't have anything to add beyond what I've said here.

Security is not omniscient, and I'm not going to ban people for failing to be omniscient. (From your initial ahelp I was expecting the warden's reasoning to be something like "because I can," not "to prevent you from spreading the fire," which is understandable.) It comes down to probable cause, which ironically you made an entire policy thread supporting.

EDIT: I also don't know why you jumped straight to metagrudging but that is particularly weird to me considering I was one of the people who defended you when you asked to have some notes removed.

Your response is so bad it feels like I'm in the twilight zone.

In what universe, when the station is flooded with plasma and fires have been reported, is security allowed to murder someone who is rolling on the ground, in a burnt area, for being on fire, simply by virtue of the logic that "Dead people on fire are less likely to spread fire than living people on fire"? That was the warden's logic, you get that right?

And its even worse because it was only through the warden's incompetence that the fire was even allowed to spread. If I had been standing up and running towards him, sure, I wouldn't have even ahelped and chalked it up to a shitty trigger-finger warden. But when I'm on the damn ground rolling the fire out and he strolls along, releases plasma into the room, and then casually murders me and leaves my flaming corpse so that it ignites the fucking plasma he spread... in what universe is that an acceptable fire containment strategy?!!

IN WHAT UNIVERSE IS THAT PROBABLE CAUSE TO MURDER SOMEONE?!!

There was absolutely 0 logic to the warden's reasoning (which you never investigated) for murdering me, yet you jump on board too like it's the most natural thing in the world. I hope we can get someone else in here soon because I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.

OK, so, reading back over the description of the situation, I agree that killing you was a bit excessive (I had read it as he just tazed you) and warrants the warden receiving a talking-to, at the very least. That said, I do still stand by generally looking at whether the warden might have reasonable suspicion, and also that I wasn't metagrudging you.

This is more or less a case where the admin failed to really look into the case at hand and brushed it off as they believed the Warden was detaining them on probable cause to search them due to being in the proximity of Atmospherics. Which is all fine and well, but obviously that isn't the case here where the Warden stunned/disabled the person because they believed they were trying to spread fire which effectively killed them. If this was more properly investigated then it'd been cleared up and would have also been known that this Warden has also been noted for bad security conduct. As such, I'm likely going to take action against the warden here of some sort being that it isn't proper security conduct in any shape or form.

I have talked with Bgobandit about this and they acknowledge that they should have investigated it, talked with the warden, and noted the behavior or applied a punishment. They acknowledge they did in fact brush it off but more so they were heading offline at the time. They have agreed they shall be more concise in the future with such adminhelps when I have talked with them.