/tg/Station 13

In the current state of events, about half of science is rendered obsolete or pointless by mining asking chemistry for some sulphuric acid, taking the metal and glass from (I think) Auxiliary Tool Storage, and the science boards from Tech Storage, then they can pretty much rebuild Robotics and R&D on Lavaland, To counterbalance this, I propose granting R&D the ability to make a proto-kinetic accelerator with a decently high level of research so that they can use the auxiliary mining base to address their mining needs if mining decides to declare independence on a given shift.

Under the current state of affairs, mining can live without R&D, and even build half or so of the Science department (no toxins, and xenobio would be a bit tricky unless they build telescience first, but good luck getting all of that done unless it's some kind of marathon round), as well as at least a mid-sized Medbay. R&D and Robotics, however, are significantly hindered by a lack of support from the mining asteroid at present, and an upgrade to bring parity in this respect seems appropriate for this reason.

Eh. Good idea actually

>RnD is not worked by anyone in the first hour of the game
>Miners decide to build an RnD base in mining because its faster to research and bring mats

Maybe suck it up and actually work on RnD?

The only other way ive seen this happen is in nations.

D&B wrote: Maybe suck it up and actually work on RnD?

Pretty much this, it's like the same people who as doctors will watch you bleed out on the medbay foyer, but dart you for breaking into the room with all the medkits.

Or bartenders having access to the cure to the disease running around but isn't dispensing it, but will shoot your ass if you walk across that bar.

do you job, or at least fuck off when someone does it for you.

I typically do work in RnD when I'm playing, at least long enough to get fives across the board. On the other hand, if mining decides to go independent, or dies, or just decides to neglect mining ores to fight megafauna, good luck getting anything useful that you can't make with just metal and glass.

The argument brought by the OP is poor in my opinion, but I do feel that R&D should be able to make KAs because they used to be able to make upgraded KAs before the modular rework. The mods are made in Science, so they should be able to make the base item as well!

Gun Hog wrote:The argument brought by the OP is poor in my opinion, but I do feel that R&D should be able to make KAs because they used to be able to make upgraded KAs before the modular rework. The mods are made in Science, so they should be able to make the base item as well!

Thing is with some modules, having PKA's available for printing makes almost anyone be able to get a robust infinite ammo weapon.

Them being locked behind mining access/point requirement gives a good wall before a traitor or powergamer can get said weapon.

Being able to print out a ton of KAs with 2 of the indoor mod might be bad, especially since they come with pins.

You can already buy PKAs with mining points, there's really no need for them in R&D.

remove experimentor room, replace with mining shuttle make miners spawn in science

I could get behind that rework. Barely anyone uses the Experimentor, as far as I know, but I can see some people objecting, between the claims that Science is OP and the claims that Mining is OP and creeping to greater power. Combining the two may seem like a level of cheese offensive to chefs and chaplains alike. From what I remember, inside mod requires some pretty significant mining investment (if not, revising it to this end may be appropriate).

BlueNothing wrote:

cocothegogo wrote:remove experimentor room, replace with mining shuttle make miners spawn in science

I could get behind that rework. Barely anyone uses the Experimentor, as far as I know, but I can see some people objecting, between the claims that Science is OP and the claims that Mining is OP and creeping to greater power. Combining the two may seem like a level of cheese offensive to chefs and chaplains alike. From what I remember, inside mod requires some pretty significant mining investment (if not, revising it to this end may be appropriate).

Problem with giving science a personal white shuttle/lavaland transit shuttle and summary already built base on lavaland to dock to somewhere (i've literally spent 5 minutes on vg and holy shit, copy the fuck out of that with better sprites) is a requirement for heads to never leave the station or be listed as invlaid or MIA (ill put up a follow up thread after this regarding head absence)

We don't have any other objectives for science besides pop-up labs on the planet to really reason converting the experimentor into some sort of garage or research expedition thing (hence its just a meme way to get onto lava-land without having to sign up as a miner or hide as powercreep science antagonist with access to VERY powerful tools)

Another problem is before people point it out...

> All of research exodus's to science lavaland base/drop-off point, mines a bit then comes back and tell miners bringing minerals to the door to go away (and summarily either not care about mining requests or just not feel inclined to give miners anything other than digging materials) on account of not owing them anything and basically become independent of everyone.

*see relevant shill on exploration if you want your dose of exploratory expeditions* As to the central summary topic of PKA's it's kind of a waste really because then its mineral intensive gun that can be upgraded heavily via rogue scientists into a weapon of murderbone. Rather than staying on lavaland people will use it as go-to weapon and competition for RND will become even more fierce as whoever owns the RND becomes the holder of power through force.

Perhaps a PKA option isn't the best solution, but mining is hard to replace or pick up the slack for if they die or screw off to get leaderboard points. Is there some other plausible strategy to mine without the PKA to deal with fauna, though? If so, I apologize, I overlooked it (though PKAs in RnD does seem reasonable because of all of the PKA upgrades they can make).

Kor wrote:Being able to print out a ton of KAs with 2 of the indoor mod might be bad, especially since they come with pins.

Would you allow it if I removed the indoor mod from the Protolathe? It is a mining item, and I would rather be able to produce one and mine with it (or the more likely case, give it to someone else) than be able to fight with it on the station. It might be useful to be able to supply tools for anyone looking to drop the mining base.

Push the Indoor mod to the vendor or make it cost more dosh?

Alternate mining gear that wasn't the PKA would be prefered, bringing back drills in some shape or form would be nice. A decoy grenade or bot that can take a licking and is high priority target for mining mobs might be one way of doing it, creates a clown or something that the monsters prefer to attack over humans, allows the humans to run up and beat the crap out of the mob and hope the decoy doesn't break before they are done. ID swipe the decoy to repack it or make them come in kits 4-6.

BlueNothing wrote:Perhaps a PKA option isn't the best solution, but mining is hard to replace or pick up the slack for if they die or screw off to get leaderboard points. Is there some other plausible strategy to mine without the PKA to deal with fauna, though? If so, I apologize, I overlooked it (though PKAs in RnD does seem reasonable because of all of the PKA upgrades they can make).

Not really, when you consider lavaland mobs, a ranged weapon is always preferable as just to SS13 game design because monsters only attack on adjacent tiles (for significant damage) and kiting strategies. KA is a rather overpowered weapon (within its constraints) as it is.

The alternative is using a kinetic crusher (large axe with a short range ka blast like projectile, that marks mobs then applies crushing velocity hits) as the most powerful KA replacement between generic melee weapons (as lasers are ineffective), most melee orientated combatants (see ashwalkers) use extreme exploit of AI patterns in order to hit safely or just mob melee lavaland mobs (such as baiting goliaths each step as there is a small period in which goliaths will not attack and using 1 person as watcher bait to tank easy to rectify burning cold damage while the rest of the hunting crew hit it) due to having ineffectual weapons and monsters usually highish health.

Davidchan wrote:Push the Indoor mod to the vendor or make it cost more dosh?

Alternate mining gear that wasn't the PKA would be prefered, bringing back drills in some shape or form would be nice. A decoy grenade or bot that can take a licking and is high priority target for mining mobs might be one way of doing it, creates a clown or something that the monsters prefer to attack over humans, allows the humans to run up and beat the crap out of the mob and hope the decoy doesn't break before they are done. ID swipe the decoy to repack it or make them come in kits 4-6.

Nice, plug your pai into it and let it have use of its wobbly legs so off mining it can still be of some use as a decoy.

Syndicate nuclear ops breach station, emag their way inside, murder in the halls and storm the captains office

The captain is sitting with their back to the wall in a comfy chair, they proceed to shoot bullets into them and go to reclaim the disk on a easy job

> The ops spin the chair around revealing it to be a decoy dummy captain strapped to hell with C4/Explosives, a built in pai commends them on their efforts before triggering the codeword to detonate

"JC A BOMB"

*BOOM*

I read this as pKa and thought "wait, did chemistry get reworked?"

Drynwyn wrote:I read this as pKa and thought "wait, did chemistry get reworked?"

You mean atmos? Everyone knows pressure is measured in pilokascals.

I think he meant pka as in acid dissociation coefficient. It is a chemistry thing

I will stab you. You already have the damn plasma cutter.