/tg/Station 13

I posted this in the coding thread but since it's not really an ideas thing, I figured I'd post it here and see if anyone wanted to flesh out or take a crack at one of these. I already opened a battering ram PR, but the rest are fair game for anyone to attempt to implement:

I see it like this, there are two ways to make security more enjoyable for sec players. Improve their combat experience, or improve their non-combat experience.

Combat experience is stuff strictly dealing with them actively engaged in fighting the enemy. Non-combat can indirectly influence the combat experience, but is largely just about making security a less terrible experience.

There are very few combat things I want to touch. One change I'd -love- to see even if it would realistically require more coordination than security can manage would be a "brace" option for riot shields that would require about ~2 seconds to engage. The riot shield user would 2-hand the shield, move at a very slow speed, and gain 100% block rate to range projectiles and melee attack coming from the 180 degrees in front of the user (180 degrees from the tile in front of the user basically, direct side-shot would still land). Anyone shooting/throwing from 180 degrees behind the user would have their projectiles pass over the user unless the user was directly targeted).

Non-combat leaves a lot more room for improvement:

1) One idea would be a "muster for battle" (RIP GvG) type alert for security, it would provide a large text + sound notification for all sec players (especially those tabbed out of boredom) to return to the brig. All armory doors would become accessible for regular security members.

2) Explicitly change our security policy on armory fortification. This wouldn't allow for "lol I put all the guns in a disabled disposal in warden's office", weapons would still have to stay in the armory until distributed (or until sec had IC knowledge that the armory could be vulnerable) but would allow for security to make whatever preparations they wanted to fortify the brig and armory. After code blue it's not even meta to want to drop some additional barriers, plus it might give sec or the warden something to do early-round while things are so slow you want to go braindead.

3) Put sliding glass doors in front of the 3 main gun racks. It's just a tiny improvement that gives the warden a chance to tell morphs, abductors, x4 babbies, etc. to fuck right off. Right now warden's job is basically "the guy who yells that all the guns are stolen, after the fact, because within 1 second of entering the armory, any intruder is now more heavily armed than the warden".

4) Let Sec PDA's (with restrictions similar to sechuds) set people to arrest (or take them off arrest) simply by entering their full name. It's a nightmare trying to manage records because unless you have the best AI or warden player in the universe, nobody is actually going to be working those records and it just ends up a confusing mismash of existing warrants that should have been removed and non-existant warrants that should have been added.

5) Move the damn warden medkit somewhere where 80% of sec can reach it, like perma. It also shouldnt be out of the question for security to get a couple advanced chems, whether its just a couple anti-toxin pills, or some patches. I would also argue that security deserves its own sleeper. Nothing is more frustrating than 90% of the station having easier access to medical supplies than the dept. that actually, desperately, needs them. Yet when sec tries to grab those supplies from medbay there is wide protest about shitcurity and retaliation against sec for "stealing" supplies.

6) Upon declaration of red-alert, security ID's would function similar to the HoS-tier of access, minus bridge, HoS office, command computers. They would have general access to science, medbay, engineering and perhaps all security would gain access to crematorium and kitchen. Security access is a tricky issue but I have no doubt that its currently too biased against security. The odds of having a cooperative HoP who will readily, quickly, and conveniently pass access to security members is less than 30% in my experience, yet without that HoP or an equally exceptional AI, security is all too often forced to stand outside science, medbay, cargo, and engineering while someone murders/converts/builds WMD's because security has jack-shit to deal with doors. There are other solutions to this issue too but breaching shells (like the nukeops have) and other devices get the typical "coderbus experience" when proposed. I think Steelpoint's HoS gun with a breaching setting was the single most contentious PR in Github history. Regardless of the solution, security having shit access and being unable to respond to a large majority of crises on the station is a huge part of why its generally just a shit experience.

7) A streamlined prison management system. The ability to teleport prisoners back would be a huge boon to security without affecting combat balance, but that ease-of-use rustles too many jimmies because god forbid you have to do something more complicated than lube the sec hall + maint if you want to prevent arrests from being processed. A compromise would be a prisoner-processor where the current brig checkpoint is. You drag in your criminal, they could be placed inside the processor like an abductor tube, the tube would prompt the officer to set a time, cell #, and crime description. The processor would give one final option whether to leave the prisoner with current clothing/headset or do a full strip into prisoner's garb. The processor would then teleport them to their designated cell and leave their gear on the teleporter pad/pod/whatever. The prisoner's gear will be placed in a cardboard box with their name on it, that gear can then be inspected, sent to the prisoner's locker via teleporter, or left at the checkpoint desk or elsewhere to be personally returned.

Put a photo in the PDA's security records. It's not only helpful at identifying people at a glance (without having to hover for their name), but also allows to spot perps that hide as "unknown" or under false ID, especially if the sport a lavish and colorful haircut.

Bring back the quick-close airlock setting (I don't know why was it removed). Should help at curbing the weekend trespassers.

I would LOVE it if the "add a crime" notes dialog was a text input instead of a text box. That mouse click to change focus and save crime notes seriously makes me hate adding any arrest records. If you leave the notes field blank, it won't save anything and it doesn't mention anything about it.

#3 is a must-have for the reasons already stated.
Re: #5 I L O V E the brig medical post on Metastation. Why isn't that a standard design pattern?
#7 existed to a certain degree on Nox station (and maybe TG before that, I didn't play back when that was a thing) in the form of another disposals network.

Honestly I feel like a lot of these issues (1, 6 and 7) are player problems. #7 specifically, it would be nice if Grey "NotAnAntag" McTide wouldn't turn their 2 minute theft sentence into a 10 minute shitfest that ultimately ends up with the brig's integrity compromised. But that's a dead horse we'll be beating for eternity.

I wish it was easier to update records. Adding crimes/notes is a pain in the ass, and don't get me started on updating mugshots

I use the records quite a lot, but I don't know why the search function broke. It just stopped working one day. I find the console works well enough, but a bit slower than it used to.

The idea of red alert being much more powerful is a good one, and certainly worth trying. It might cause a problem of red alert being called too often but I think I'd wait before being sure that'd happen.

Cheimon wrote:but I don't know why the search function broke.

I reported it months ago but was told to fuck off and use ctrl+f instead. It still doesn't work.

Also red alert should require a two-Head ID swipe to cancel. Considering how hard it is to coordinate someone else to swipe with you. Borgs can sort of do the swipe if they're standing next to the swiper though.

i like these ideas

Ree

Wardens are allowed to fortify the armoury alread

Honestly the teleport thing for sec seems too much for a round start thing. Make it require some set up, maybe even things like blue space crystals from mining before it can be used.

I play sec/warden a fair bit, and honestly while there are a lot of streamline improvements you could do, the number 1 thing that sucks for sec players is the player attitudes. You can't fix that with code. I think combat from a sec point of view is fine as it is.

It's when you arrest someone for breaking shit repeatedly and they scream for 20 minutes about shitcurity.

It's officers who feel like it's a good idea to brig the clown for slipping 1-2 people. 5 minutes to catch him, 3 minutes to search/process him. 1 min in the cell. 2-3 minutes to let him gear back up and leave the brig.

It's when officers toss a chump in a cell and won't tell the warden what he did. And then they get salty when the warden lets the chump go due to no known charges.

It's when the HOS wants to execute everyone.

It's when the HOS isn't willing to kill the dude with the smoking revolver.

It's when a grayshit doesn't understand the idea of repeat offender. Yes I'm permabrigging you for breaking a window. I'm permabrigging you for breaking a window because you broker the HOP's windows, got warned. You broke medbay's windows, you got 2 minutes. You broker every window into the brig and got caught throwing shards at the grilles, then you get permad.

This game's greatest strength and greatest weakness are both the fact that it's a space themed autism simulator.

That being said, I'll add some sec streamlining ideas in an edit when I get the chance.


Some thoughts on mechanical changes:

Robustin's ideas:
#2 Good idea. Code blue means the station knows that a threat is a very real possibility. Non threat-specific improvements to station security seem appropriate. Don't assume there's going to be an invasion from space and build extra walls, but some barriers aren't a bad idea. If you think sec might be snuck into maybe put a barrier over the table where you hand guns to officers. Make it harder than just smashing the window and climbing over.

#3 Another Good Idea. Would they have access restrictions? If they did it might make an armory smash and grab take too long. Someone who gets into the armory without getting shot deserves a reasonable chance. The delay of having to open each door to steal a rack of weapons might be enough to give some time to react.

#4 This could be a good idea but it might allow tators/greytiders easier access to sic beepsky on someone. As it is now they would have to get your ID and get to a sec records console to set you to arrest. Arrivals is the only one that's not around much traffic but the AI can shut that down if given the chance. With this you could hide in a maintenance locker and constantly set everyone on the station to arrest just because you slipped an officer.

#5 Yes, this needs to happen. Someone above commented on how nice the Metastation medical area is in Sec. It would be cool if we could fit that onto Box somehow. Either way having a medkit that everyone in sec can reach is a good idea.

#6 I like this idea a lot. getting access during an emergency is a pain, slow at best, impossible at worst. They could just get the department specific access that all the department assigned officers get at round start. If the idea of officers getting this access immediately upon red alert is too much maybe let the HOS control it. The HOS could have an option on his ID computer to upgrade access to all officers. Granted it might encourage the HOS to just give it out at round start.

#7 I like the idea of having sec checkpoint asshole chutes. What would also be a good idea would be to broadcast a message over the sec channel, or maybe PDA message any PDAs with the job Warden or HOS assigned to it.

Something like: "Officer McRedShit has Teleported Cluwne to Cell 2. Crime: Slipped the Captain and stole his chain of command. Sentence: 5 minutes" The sec radio option is probably the best. That way everyone will know the status. That would help everyone pitch in for criminal management too. Sometimes the Warden could use a hand from nearby officers dealing with asshats and unless you make the arrest yourself you usually don't know what someone is in for.

It could also maybe check sec records and see if the person in question still has their record. If so it would set them to Incarcerated and add the text in the Crime field to their record.

Other Ideas

The warden's office or armory should have a box with a few spare sets of SecHUDs. An officer spawns with what they need to actually fight but on high pop you can run out of HUDs. The detective will usually ask for a pair, and sometimes Lawyers will ask for a pair so they can see criminal status.

I agree with all of the ideas, really.

Alt clicking riot/combat shotguns with a shotgun shell in hand adds it to a side sling for shells
3 side slings spawn in the armory, next to 3 boxes of breaching shells



Said slings spawn with breaching shells at round start


They have a range of two tiles, require you to be standing still for more than two seconds (otherwise the gun flys out of your hands) and obviously blows open airlocks. If it contacts a person, it does 20 brute, stuns them for 5 seconds, and blows them back 4 tiles.

*Have it so it just flings a unsecured airlock in the direction they are facing so people standing behind the door get smacked by a giant piece of metal going mach 5

This hard-buffs security, letting them breach open airlocks, and additonally camp choke points.

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Flasher bulbs break still, but re-add (if they were removed) synthetic flashes, in which, never break once they are added to a flasher (still break if used in hand to prevent infinite whitescreen)
The replacement bulb box is replaced with a box of these, normal flashes still start in the flashers, in order to make it require a set up time as opposed to a quick bolt system

--

Add a tactical tool kit, which can be placed on the security belt as a box like item, and contain a wrench, welder, screwdriver and crowbar.
It essentially is just a black tool bag that when put into a security belt, attaches onto the back of the toolbelt sprite, containing basic tools to allow for the brig to be upgraded/repaired easier

One spawns in the wardens tool belt by default, replacing pepperspray (no one uses pepperspray), and two spawn in the armory.

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Theres a button in the HOS's and Warden's office that sends a annoucement to all security PDA's stating for them to return to the brig and equip themselves at the armory, clicking this button auto-elevates it to code blue, and if its already code blue, makes a HOS desk annoucement stating
"All crew members are to return to their departments for their own safety, a emergency has been detected on station and is being handled by the on board security team. There is no further information at this time"

Pressing it opens the armory shutters, and unlocks the lethal shotgun locker, and closes the cell shutters and desk shutters. AI SOP dictates that if a elevated security level is needed, this button is pressed. If the AI presses it, its a AI annoucement, not a HOS desk annoucement.

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You can two riot shields on a target stand and it becomes a moving bullet proof object, if one of the two riot shields is collapsable, alt clicking it collapses the riot shield allowing you to shoot over it, but not into it. (only able to shoot over it if your standing right next to it)

Doesn't stop lasers unless both of the shields are energy shields, in which it becomes the same as a normal riot+collapsable

Simply use the shield on the target stand to create this, screwdriver it twice to remove both riot shields, this can't be done if there is already a target on the target stand.

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Flashers, and security barricades when they are deployed can be upgraded with a area denial system, two, and only two of which spawns in the armory
If someone who isn't loyalty implanted fires a weapon (from a taser to a pulse rifle) next to it, it launches either a clusterbang in a random direction around it, or 4 flash bangs in all 4 directions around it.
Once this has been done, it needs to be reloaded with 4 more flashbangs, in order to compensate for this, a additonal box of flashbangs can now be found in the armory, next to the ADS system
Concept

Shitty attempt at it, things sticking out the side are the smoke tubes, bottom things are the mounting brackets, and the white thing is a sensor (going off of CIWS)


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Combat knives are added to the security vender, and the boot sprites show it added to it when you place it in it, two sharpening rods (not stones) spawn in it to.
Sharpening Rod


Sharpening Rods have two uses, so if you have dicks on your security team, they'll keep the rod and not let you use it, adds a additonal 5 brute and a 60% chance to make them bleed on the first hit

Also, security is now trained with knives, throwing them makes a -swoosh- noise, the same noise that swinging a machete vertically, while angling it horizontially does, (or you know the sound that it makes when you throw a knife.) Throwing it at someone has a 40% chance to stick it into their chest, 20% chance on limbs, and a 15% chance on their head, hitting them in the head with a knife if they aren't wearing head gear puts them into crit instantly.

If a knife sticks into them period, it does a flat 20 brute on the limb, and causes bleeding immediately, and doesn't stop untill its removed.

They also have 50% slower click delay when using them, as opposed to cargo or a greytider, meaning 50% of the time, if my math isn't shit, security will win in a melee fight if the knife is sharpened, and there are no disarms.

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You can now attach combat knives to the end of stun batons, meaning harm batoning now does 10 more brute, and induces bleeding 15 percent more
You can also throw it and lodge it into people, with lower stick rates of course, 25% to chest, 10% to limbs, 5% to head.

Once its stuck inside a limb, it will constantly add on a percentage variable to fall out, that being 5%, every second its it, a additonal 5% is added,
Every second its in, however, it stuns for the same duration as a stun baton, assuming its on and you didn't just give them a stun baton. The effect is immediately applied as soon as it sticks into them.
If its stuck in the chest, theres a 5% chance to induce cardiac arrest, and a 7% chance to cause lung constriction (no breath)
If its stuck in their head, it has the same effects as a combat knife and insta-crits them, if the stun baton is on, every time it shocks, it does a additonal 5 brute and applies brain damage.

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Riot shields can now be made into larger, more robust shields by adding metal or plas-steel
Proceess is as follows
Screwdriver riot shield to allow for modification
Attach metal rods to create a frame to support the additonal armor
Attach 5 metal to build the under frame
Weld it
Attach 10 plas-steel to build the bulk of the armor
Wrench it
Weld it
Attach 5 more metal to build the outer flaps and arm guard
Wrench it
Weld it

Now you have a full blown ghetto shield, you walk much slower, but it blocks up to 70% of all projectiles, however, after sustaining 20 hits, it breaks down into a normal riot shield, with a random chance to drop X and Y ammout of metal and metal rods onto the floor (plas-steel is lost)

Applying plas steel to a damaged one removes its affects untill its wrenched and welded, but once it's wrenched and welded, it repairs it up into the next stage.
There are 5 stages in all
Fully Repaired (no repairs) (70% block, 60% speed loss)
Slightly Damaged (requires 5 plas steel to repair) ( 60% block, 40% speed loss)
Moderately Damaged (requires 10 plas steel to repair) (50% block, 30% speed loss)
Severely Damaged (requires 10 plas steel and 5 metal to repair, starting with metal, wrench and weld both) (30% block, 10% speed loss)
Riot Shield (requires complete rebuild)

You are unable to wield a additonal weapon while doing this, as its a two handed shield, (one using your forearm, and one just being a handle to hold onto)
You can use a welder on a fully repaired one to cut a port in it, small enough to fit a spear through, which will cause anyone who runs into you to take damage, if you are facing them directly
Meaning more roman combat, because obviously the only way to push back the grey tide is with shields and spears

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a box M67 Frag Grenades now spawn in the armory, inside of the lethal locker, which is now renamed to the High Security locker,
I believe this are actually already in the game, so essentially just stick that shit in there so sec now has shit that makes a boom, they can be attached to sec belts or put into pockets
3 thermite grenades spawn in there to, no fancy sprites though, just chemistry grenades

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Attaching a combat knife onto a metal rod in place of a piece of glass makes a damn good spear, with equal, if not better stats to a spear.

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The tiny security masks that are basically oxygen masks with hailers attached are now replaced with SWAT masks, of which now have two modes, security combat and security medical
Security combat shows dots based on threat assessment, meaning one dot would be a grey tider, two dots would be a cultist, and three dots would be nuke ops. four dots would be things like juggernauts, xenomorphs, or abductors

Things that would give someone one dot:
Carrying a station found weapon (bone saw, kitchen knife, fire axe)
Wearing body armor without a loyalty implant or having a job that starts with it (HoP, Bartender, checks ID not crew manifest)
Being bloody
Having a head of staff ID without having their proper uniform, and having a obstructed face (meaning it wont register if the real hop decides to wear combat boots one day, so long as he doesn't wear a mask that covers his face)
Having a face covering mask on that isn't relevant to your job (clown, meme, engineers having hardsuits, atmos tech's having gas masks, ect, this wouldn't be strict either, the robotcist wearing a gas mask for example, would be allowed)
Having a wanted status (still displays the W)

Things that would give someone two dots:
Carrying a traitor weapon (revolver, energy sword, energy bow)
Carrying traitor gear (chamelon projector, emag)
Having traitor gear on a visible slot (ebow on belt)
Having mis-matched higher dot gear, (chrono suit helmet, cultist body armor)
Having boxes in hand that match what traitor gear spawns in (holopara injector box, chamelon kit box)
Holding gangster gear (Uzi, opened spray can, switch blade)
Having gangster gear on a visible slot
Having a flash when your job has no access to one (robotcists, engineers, and scientests are given one dot for this, the rest are given two (excluding people who have access to it))

Things that would give someone three dots
Carrying a syndicate weapon (C20-r, sniper rifle)
Having a syndicate weapon on a visible slot (c20r on suit storage)
Having syndicate gear equipped without signs of station-involvement (away mission victors don't get shot on sight if they have black shoes/insulated gloves/welding helmets, being verified as someone who is actually appart of the station in syndicate gear does it globally for all helmets, meaning if you are seen once with your face exposed while wearing a syndicate hardsuit, you won't be given another 3 dot status)
Being in 1-3 tile proximity of a suspicious beacon or syndicate bomb
Carrying syndicate equipment without pre-approvement to be assigned to the station, people carrying syndicate gear and being verified as appart of the crew get two dots if the gear isn't attainable from the gateway.

Things that would give someone/thing four dots
Being nar-sie
Being the clown
Being a construct
Being a wizard
Being a abductor
Being a xenomorph
Being a deathsquad officer (all 4 dots flash)
Being a ERT officer (all 4 dots flash)
Being a Admiral (all 4 dots flash)
Being a admin fucking around (talking corgi, faithless)
Mismatched sprites (admin fuckery) are assigned 4 dot statuses to

The dots go down the right hand side of a person, in the same overlay as normal (both modes include wanted/implant statuses)
The first dot from the top is yellow
the second dot is orange
the third dot is crimson red
the fourth dot is hot pink

The Warden's helmet is a tint of navy blue, and the HOS's is blacker, and the lens are a brighter red than the normal ones.
Both the wardens and the HOS's helmet have the ability to assign/erase dot statuses based on threat assessment, meaning if you have a bag full of syndicate gear, get the warden to approve your dot status so you don't get ggnoreed by a security officer who shit himself

Security Medical has the same four dot system, its in the same spot, since both modes can't be running at the same time
The first dot from the top is green, meaning the patient is at 100% health
The next dot is yellow, once it switches dots, the dot before it turns off, the yellow dot means the patient is below 50% health or has below 30% heath on a limb, shift clicking shows which limb
The next dot is red, a flashing red one, meaning the patient is in crit, the dot flashes faster based on how close the patient is to death
The last dot is white, meaning the patient is dead and his soul is still present, if the last dot is grey, the patient has ghosted after he died.

The HOS's eye piece now does all of this, including having a third night vision mode, it also becomes a traitor objective.

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Tactical Medkits are now added, similar to the tactical toolkit, this one would go above the left buttcheek, while the toolkit would go above the right buttcheek
Contains 2 red striped autoinjectors containing 15 units of Salicyclic Acid
Contains 2 yellow stripped auto injectors containing 15 units of Oxandrolone
Contains 1 green striped autoinjector containing 15 units of Atropine
Contains 1 pink stripped autoinjector containing a 15 unit mix stimulants

annnd i got tired of typing
theres your mix of oxford for the day
steelpointmccurity aint got shit on me

Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it.

I'm not sure about prisoner tubes. On the one hand, convenience is great.

On the other hand, brigging a person safely isn't hard, but it teaches security players a lot of really basic and quite important skills in a controlled environment. How to uncuff someone without getting disarmed and beaten up, how to search someone, how to keep someone restrained, what sort of items a person can use to escape, time to talk to the prisoner while you're searching them and find out their side of the story, all that sort of stuff. It's relatively important that security players understand these things for outside the brig, I think, and it's not that hard to brig them anyway.

Automated crime records from such a tube system would be nice, though.

Zilenan91 wrote:Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it.

There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it.

security should have a box of reinforced bolas and an owl signal in the armory in case the mime wants to become a vigilante.

John_Oxford wrote:No one uses pepperspray

They should, it's great. About 2/3 of the random shitters you deal with don't have face protection and it's a short ranged stun that can't be used against you if you get disarmed. Now that flashes don't actually stun these take their place.

Super Aggro Crag wrote:security should have a box of reinforced bolas and an owl signal in the armory in case the mime wants to become a vigilante.

>mime

everyone knows the HoP is the owl crag, you don't have to play stupid

i only have to play stupid because i lack your natural talent at being so, slap happy pappy

Can we do something about lube, every single gang/rev round without fail in the last week or so that i've played the brig corridor and all maint access points have been lubed from pretty much the first 5 minutes of the round.

Such mass area denial is fucking insane.

Crowbar

Anonmare wrote:Also red alert should require a two-Head ID swipe to cancel. Considering how hard it is to coordinate someone else to swipe with you. Borgs can sort of do the swipe if they're standing next to the swiper though.

i do it with the hand tele by myself

>Sec mask threat assessment gives 2 dots for antags
>literally giving sec an antag hud

AHAHAHAHAHAHA
Yeah, that just killed the legitimacy of that entire post for me.

cmspano wrote:

John_Oxford wrote:No one uses pepperspray

They should, it's great. About 2/3 of the random shitters you deal with don't have face protection and it's a short ranged stun that can't be used against you if you get disarmed. Now that flashes don't actually stun these take their place.

plus you can blind them if you keep refilling from a pepper spray dispenser

There are very few combat things I want to touch. One change I'd -love- to see even if it would realistically require more coordination than security can manage would be a "brace" option for riot shields that would require about ~2 seconds to engage. The riot shield user would 2-hand the shield, move at a very slow speed, and gain 100% block rate to range projectiles and melee attack coming from the 180 degrees in front of the user (180 degrees from the tile in front of the user basically, direct side-shot would still land). Anyone shooting/throwing from 180 degrees behind the user would have their projectiles pass over the user unless the user was directly targeted).

That doesn't seem like it would be quite as good in practice as it does on paper, what happens when there is only one security officer VS a station full of chucklefucks blowing everything up?
If that was changed, I'd expect more people to just not use the riot shield ever and start dragging around lockers/crates more to block shots, since that would seem more viable at that point—not having a preparation time, not slowing you down, and not rendering you more or less useless.

Just kind of my opinion on things, I would like security to get stronger on lowpop and maybe even on highpop to encourage stealth for traitors, though this will mess with the antags who have to go loud.

If RND is basically going to be churning out kor's code baby bfgs security might just get their own protolathe.